Snodgrass?

[ZLF 271]

[quote user="Gainer the Gopher"]Why not consider how well he played in Lambert''s system because that''s more like what we''re going to be using next season, not Houghton''s bury your head in the sand approach. He was nails. Bring him back if he''s available.[/quote]

 

Snodgrass was a Hughton signing and performed better in that first season under CH when we finished a premier best 11th - he was never a Lambert player.  That CH over-balanced the attacking focus through him in the relegation season was a key part of the problem, as we became predictable and Snoodys ability was not quite good enough to overcome the extra defensive cover he attracted.

 

Yes, he fits Alex Neils work ethic and is a talented player,  but the quality fo his crossing is erratic,  balanced by his timing to arrive in the box and score.  

 

But frankly the last thing we need is another wide right midfield option - whether on loan or to own.  So its a very firm no,  but thanks for the history. 

 

Our priorities are very much elsewhere...

[lake district canary 4,531]

Plainly Snodgrass splits fans'' opinions.  To me he always had good ability, but didn''t use it well enough, often enough.  Yes, he always gave 100%, but for me the balance of his performances veered from pretty awful to very influential - but not always in a good way.  So he scored some very good goals, but the majority iof the time he would run into dead ends, him knowing he was running into dead ends and falling over at the touch of a feather and then complaining bitterly about it, so in the process making himself look stupid (imo).   100% effort is no good if it is not helping the team - and those that think that he had no options up front were seeing different games from me because that is just so blinkered as to be completely untrue. 

I''ve been harsh about him, but football is a team game and even if the manager wasn''t strong enough to manage his forces well enough, players have to show some intelligence for themselves and I''m afraid that for me, Snodgrass didn''t show that often enough. Would still like to see him prove me wrong and do well at Hull, but no way would I want him back at Norwich.

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="lake district canary"]He would run into dead ends, him knowing he was running into dead ends and falling over at the touch of a feather and then complaining bitterly about it, so in the process making himself look stupid (imo).[/quote]

** bites tongue **

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="lake district canary"]100% effort is no good if it is not helping the team - and those that think that he had no options up front were seeing different games from me because that is just so blinkered as to be completely untrue.[/quote]Of course we were Lakey..........we were actually there.I''m not being disrespectful saying that but you just can''t get a true reflection of the game from a dodgy stream or even TV.TV cameras concentrate on the ball and therefore, miss much of the movement on the pitch and away from the action.To prove my point, pick out any particular player before a televised game and try to follow him thoughout the match. It''s impossible.That''s why fans comments about the match carry much more weight if they were actually there than those who followed it on a stream or TV. You will note that people like Ricardo only write reports on games he''s attended and I guess, like me, he still watches away games on a small screen. I would suggest he doesn''t report on these games because he wouldn''t be able to give a true or full reflection of the game.So, for you to accuse other fans who can see the whole picture (while you can only see what the cameras want to show you) as "blinkered" is somewhat ironic.

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I always thought he had a good game when I was watching on the wireless.....

[ricardo 7,340]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="lake district canary"]100% effort is no good if it is not helping the team - and those that think that he had no options up front were seeing different games from me because that is just so blinkered as to be completely untrue.[/quote]Of course we were Lakey..........we were actually there.I''m not being disrespectful saying that but you just can''t get a true reflection of the game from a dodgy stream or even TV.TV cameras concentrate on the ball and therefore, miss much of the movement on the pitch and away from the action.To prove my point, pick out any particular player before a televised game and try to follow him thoughout the match. It''s impossible.That''s why fans comments about the match carry much more weight if they were actually there than those who followed it on a stream or TV. You will note that people like Ricardo only write reports on games he''s attended and I guess, like me, he still watches away games on a small screen. I would suggest he doesn''t report on these games because he wouldn''t be able to give a true or full reflection of the game.So, for you to accuse other fans who can see the whole picture (while you can only see what the cameras want to show you) as "blinkered" is somewhat ironic.

 

[/quote]Very true.Only by attending do you get the true appreciation of whats really going on.[Y]

[im spartacus canary 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="lake district canary"]100% effort is no good if it is not helping the team - and those that think that he had no options up front were seeing different games from me because that is just so blinkered as to be completely untrue.[/quote]Of course we were Lakey..........we were actually there.I''m not being disrespectful saying that but you just can''t get a true reflection of the game from a dodgy stream or even TV.TV cameras concentrate on the ball and therefore, miss much of the movement on the pitch and away from the action.To prove my point, pick out any particular player before a televised game and try to follow him thoughout the match. It''s impossible.That''s why fans comments about the match carry much more weight if they were actually there than those who followed it on a stream or TV. You will note that people like Ricardo only write reports on games he''s attended and I guess, like me, he still watches away games on a small screen. I would suggest he doesn''t report on these games because he wouldn''t be able to give a true or full reflection of the game.So, for you to accuse other fans who can see the whole picture (while you can only see what the cameras want to show you) as "blinkered" is somewhat ironic.

 

[/quote]Very true.Only by attending do you get the true appreciation of whats really going on.[Y][/quote]Do you sit in the River end Ricardo ? i think you have said that ? i am always amazed how you get things so bang on from watching the game from one end of the ground if that is the case.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Rickyyyyyyy has opera glasses....

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="lake district canary"]100% effort is no good if it is not helping the team - and those that think that he had no options up front were seeing different games from me because that is just so blinkered as to be completely untrue.[/quote]Of course we were Lakey..........we were actually there.I''m not being disrespectful saying that but you just can''t get a true reflection of the game from a dodgy stream or even TV.TV cameras concentrate on the ball and therefore, miss much of the movement on the pitch and away from the action.To prove my point, pick out any particular player before a televised game and try to follow him thoughout the match. It''s impossible.That''s why fans comments about the match carry much more weight if they were actually there than those who followed it on a stream or TV. You will note that people like Ricardo only write reports on games he''s attended and I guess, like me, he still watches away games on a small screen. I would suggest he doesn''t report on these games because he wouldn''t be able to give a true or full reflection of the game.  So, for you to accuse other fans who can see the whole picture (while you can only see what the cameras want to show you) as "blinkered" is somewhat ironic.[/quote]Very true.Only by attending do you get the true appreciation of whats really going on.[Y][/quote]

Same old arguments, but unfortunately for those who like to think they know better because they "go to games", I do attend several games every season and while he wasn''t in every one of those in the two seasons he was here, the ones he did play in that I saw live, count to my overall impression of him.

My criticism of him is largley based on what he did with the ball - and for that I saw every moment of everything he did on the ball, either live at matches - or close up and with replays on TV/streams.   I''ve never criticised his work rate, effort or commitment, which is what some praise him for, but that on it own does not give the full picture. 

Disagree with my opinion by all means but to dismiss it because  "I wasn''t there"  is neither strictly accurate nor fair.  

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

I see the Pink ''Un mafia is out in full force at the moment. Abley supported by the high horse cavalry too."Your opinion doesn''t count because you weren''t blah blah blah blah..............."[|-)]

[Mr Jenkins 0]

LDC The point that was made, which is bleedin obvious, is you can''t get a full picture of what a player does in a game by watching a stream, particularly a dodgy stream.

In the past you have even sought to critisise Snoody''s performance in a game when you then let slip you hadn''t even seen it on a stream.

It really annoys me when you profess to speak with such a sense of self importance about a player when you have not actually seen what he has done throughout the match.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Mr Jenkins"]LDC The point that was made, which is bleedin obvious, is you can''t get a full picture of what a player does in a game by watching a stream, particularly a dodgy stream.

In the past you have even sought to critisise Snoody''s performance in a game when you then let slip you hadn''t even seen it on a stream.

It really annoys me when you profess to speak with such a sense of self importance about a player when you have not actually seen what he has done throughout the match.[/quote]

Not so. I would never knowingly criticise something I hadn''t seen for myself, either live or on a video. Someone else (Lappinitup) jumped to that conclusion on a post I wrote - and of course people jumped on that and it stuck - but it was not the case.  I''m happy to argue the point if anyone can find that post.........if anyone can be bothered.....  

[Yellow Wal 314]

Mr Jenkins there are several people who go and watch matches but, in fact, see very little.

I had one sitting behind me at Wembley who complained loudly that Redmond was lazy because he didn''t chase down a lost cause and instead took up a more defensive position when we were only a few minutes away from winning.

From what I had to endure that day it seems he was a regular at Carrow Road.

He watches a lot of matches .......... but what does he actually see?

[ReadingCanary 0]

Main problem with snodgrass was he always took an extra touch or slowed the game down just as we needed a quick ball to be whipped into the box. He was a good player and could take a mean free kick... But his slowing down of our counter attacks certainly would be a hindrance this season.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Disagree with my opinion by all means but to dismiss it because  "I wasn''t there"  is neither strictly accurate nor fair.[/quote]I disagreed with your opinion and gave my reasons. The particular line of your post I had a problem with was.........[quote user="lake district canary"]those that think that he had no

options up front were seeing different games from me because that is

just so blinkered as to be completely untrue.[/quote]In reality, you were saying people who disagreed with your view of the game were ''blinkered. and ''dishonest''.I KNOW you go to some games which underlines my point. If you truly believed it''s better to watch and more informative on a small screen, you''d be better off staying at home.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I''ve criticised players while watching on teletext! And I defend my right to do so! Half you lot who go to games know less about football than the wife''s mother.......

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Yellow Wall wrote the following post at 20/06/2015 4:44 PM:

Mr Jenkins there are several people who go and watch matches but, in fact, see very little.

I had one sitting behind me at Wembley who complained loudly that Redmond was lazy because he didn''t chase down a lost cause and instead took up a more defensive position when we were only a few minutes away from winning.

From what I had to endure that day it seems he was a regular at Carrow Road.

He watches a lot of matches .......... but what does he actually see?

Yes Yellow Wall, people see different things in games, have different opinions on what hey see, it was ever thus.

In your example the fan was expressing an opinion based on what he had seen , it may have been rubbish in your opinion but it was based on evidence.

What I object to is profound postings and critisism of a player based on partial evidence and the very best.

[Gainer the Gopher 0]

You''re right Zipper

i forgot we had a decent tho boring season with CH prior to relegation

[mrs miggins 0]

nutty nigel wrote the following post at 20/06/2015 4:56 PM:I''ve criticised players while watching on teletext! And I defend my right to do so!

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And we give you you the right to do so, just as we have the right to point out that your opinion will therefore not be valid.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

LD "Not so. I would never knowingly criticise something I hadn''t seen for myself, either live or on a video. Someone else (Lappinitup) jumped to that conclusion on a post I wrote - and of course people jumped on that and it stuck "

LDC

What does " I would never knowingly criticise something I hadn''t seen" mean, surely you know if you have seen something or not!

You speak with forked tongue I''m afraid. I can recall getting rather annoyed by you last season when you constantly criticised Snoddy and made reference one Monday morning to the Saturdays game, you had a go at him for his performance and then later revealed that you hadn''t even seen the game.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="lake district canary"]Disagree with my opinion by all means but to dismiss it because  "I wasn''t there"  is neither strictly accurate nor fair.[/quote]I disagreed with your opinion and gave my reasons. The particular line of your post I had a problem with was.........[quote user="lake district canary"]those that think that he had no

options up front were seeing different games from me because that is

just so blinkered as to be completely untrue.[/quote]In reality, you were saying people who disagreed with your view of the game were ''blinkered. and ''dishonest''. I KNOW you go to some games which underlines my point. If you truly believed it''s better to watch and more informative on a small screen, you''d be better off staying at home.[/quote]

Blinkered, but not dishonest......just wrong  (imo [;)] ). 

Its got nothing to do with whether you go to matches or not. Any opinion can be formed by anyone that sees anything with their own eyes, whether at a match or on a TV/computer screen.   What is blinkered is what people  don''t see - and with that I will agree with you, because we all see what we want to see.  I saw a player repeatedly ignoring other players in his team who were better placed preferring to run into cul de sacs and falling over if things got tough.  Other players saw someone trying their utmost to break down the opposition because no-one else in the team looked capable of it.   The net result was the same.  Few chances created, frustration and lack of goals apart from the one player who was trying harder than all the others......in his own head, anyway.  

[ricardo 7,340]

[quote user="im spartacus"]Do you sit in the River end Ricardo ? i think you have said that ? i am always amazed how you get things so bang on from watching the game from one end of the ground if that is the case.[/quote]Yes, Spartacus, I sit in Block Q at the River End. I have been known to get things wrong at times especially stuff happening a hundred yards away but those sitting at the other end are often quick to pick me up on any little mistake. If I''m not sure of what happened in an incident I have found it best not to pretend and admit to a bit of confusion.We all see games slightly differently and through the lens of our own prejudices so its inevitable that not everyone see''s the same game. My main aim has always been to give those who are unfortunate enough not to be there in person, an overall feel of the what went on and not simply to aim for accuracy of timings of every incident etc.I have watched from all parts of the ground over the years but I think that my present position in the upper River End gives me a great view of the breadth of the field

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Mr Jenkins"] I can recall getting rather annoyed by you last season when you constantly criticised Snoddy and made reference one Monday morning to the Saturdays game, you had a go at him for his performance and then later revealed that you hadn''t even seen the game.[/quote]

No, no and no.  That is not the case.  I have already told you that the thread you are talking about (I can remember it because it annoyed me so much at the time ) was one of those where someone says you have said something, then others latch on to it and before you know it, you''re defending something that you never said in the first place. 

In that thread I criticised Snoddy for what I had seen in previous matches and someone said that I was talking the match on the Saturday - at which point I said I wan''t at the match. Then other posters jumped in and without taking in the whole argument, started throwing the "he''s criticising and didn''t even see it" line. Which was not the case.

[ricardo 7,340]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="lake district canary"]Disagree with my opinion by all means but to dismiss it because  "I wasn''t there"  is neither strictly accurate nor fair.[/quote]I disagreed with your opinion and gave my reasons. The particular line of your post I had a problem with was.........[quote user="lake district canary"]those that think that he had no

options up front were seeing different games from me because that is

just so blinkered as to be completely untrue.[/quote]In reality, you were saying people who disagreed with your view of the game were ''blinkered. and ''dishonest''. I KNOW you go to some games which underlines my point. If you truly believed it''s better to watch and more informative on a small screen, you''d be better off staying at home.[/quote]

Blinkered, but not dishonest......just wrong  (imo [;)] ). 

Its got nothing to do with whether you go to matches or not. Any opinion can be formed by anyone that sees anything with their own eyes, whether at a match or on a TV/computer screen.   What is blinkered is what people  don''t see - and with that I will agree with you, because we all see what we want to see.  I saw a player repeatedly ignoring other players in his team who were better placed preferring to run into cul de sacs and falling over if things got tough.  Other players saw someone trying their utmost to break down the opposition because no-one else in the team looked capable of it.   The net result was the same.  Few chances created, frustration and lack of goals apart from the one player who was trying harder than all the others......in his own head, anyway.  

[/quote]The one thing you don''t get from not being there Lakey, is the feel and the mood of the crowd. That''s why it was so easy for those of us watching live to know when Hughton''s time was not up and when it finally was. You instinctively know when the mood of the crowd turns and that''s something you can''t get from watching on a screen.

[mrs miggins 0]

lake district canary wrote the following post at 20/06/2015 9:13 AM:So he scored some very good goals, but the majority iof the time he would run into dead ends, him knowing he was running into dead ends and falling over at the touch of a feather and then complaining bitterly about it, so in the process making himself look stupid (imo).

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Totally agree with this part. And moaned and moaned when the decision didn''t go his way, or a team-''mate'' didn''t pass to him. He also rarely tracked back and defended behind our RB to track his runner. He huffed and puffed but he never seemed like a team player.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="lake district canary"]What is blinkered is what people  don''t see - and with that I will agree with you, because we all see what we want to see.[/quote]I think we may be getting there Lakey. [Y]"we all see what we want to see". Exactly! Unfortunately, many people get a bee in their bonnet about certain players then spend all their time looking for things they just KNOW will happen........Wes goes round in circles then misplaces a pass.Bradley will shoot high and wide.Martin can''t header.And so on.Unfortunately that''s how you seem to view Snoddy, always looked for his faults but never recognising his attributes. You''re not alone. Often I would see players trudge off the pitch thinking Snoddy was the only player who''d shown any heart and desire and yet, I''d log in on here a couple of hours later and be shocked at the abuse he was given.As you say, it''s all about opinions but at the end of the day, we only see what we want to see. [;)]

[nutty nigel 7,509]

My opinion is valid miggo. And its more valid than the ones who make stuff up to support an opinion. Watcing on teletext you get good insight to the game where as on the wireless you are influenced by Chris Goreham who knows less about football than Rob Butler...

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="lake district canary"]What is blinkered is what people  don''t see - and with that I will agree with you, because we all see what we want to see.[/quote]I think we may be getting there Lakey. [Y]"we all see what we want to see". Exactly! Unfortunately, many people get a bee in their bonnet about certain players then spend all their time looking for things they just KNOW will happen........Wes goes round in circles then misplaces a pass.Bradley will shoot high and wide.Martin can''t header.And so on.Unfortunately that''s how you seem to view Snoddy, always looked for his faults but never recognising his attributes. You''re not alone. Often I would see players trudge off the pitch thinking Snoddy was the only player who''d shown any heart and desire and yet, I''d log in on here a couple of hours later and be shocked at the abuse he was given.As you say, it''s all about opinions but at the end of the day, we only see what we want to see. [;)][/quote]

[Y]  The only thing I would add is that I have always agreed that Snodgrass has ability - my disappointment with him was that he seemed not to know how to get the best from himself and for the team.  The frustration he exhibited and complaining he used to get through in a match were painful to watch (and I''m talking about matches I went to) and I always thought that if he could just calm down a bit, try and bring other players into things more and not try to do it all himself, we would have had a better balnce in the team.  You can bring Hughton into the mix  and say it was his fault that the team wasn''t right, but in my mind players have to take on responsibility regardless of who is manager........but take respoonsibility in the right way.  Trying to do it all yourself is not taking responsibility in the right way - especially if it means you restrict others in the process.  The penalty ball he took off RVW was typical of him and was just a symptom of his wider attitude to things - "I''m the main man,  I''m going to take responsibility etc etc" ..........but often it didn''t work out.  Sometimes it did work out, but on balance - and imo, based on seeing nearly every game either live or on a stream - he disappointed more than he achieved.  But I accept that he was a warrior and fans respond to that, even if the team are losing.  Its like Braveheart - being the big strong man, trying to lead by example, rallying the troops - but like William Wallace, at the end of the day, he wasn''t up to it.......

[mrs miggins 0]

nutty nigel wrote the following post at 20/06/2015 6:00 PM:My opinion is valid miggo. And its more valid than the ones who make stuff up to support an opinion. Watcing on teletext you get good insight to the game where as on the wireless you are influenced by Chris Goreham who knows less about football than Rob Butler...

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If you base your opinion on teletext you are able to express your views but don''t expect anyone to take them seriously.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Its like Braveheart - being the big strong man, trying to lead by example, rallying the troops - but like William Wallace, at the end of the day, he wasn''t up to it.......[/quote]We will never agree over this particular player Lakey but one last thing I have to ask.....for someone who preaches positivity, why are you so negative about Robert Snodgrass?