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As I mentioned previously this excellent young manager of ours has excelled in every area since coming on board with the exception of recruiting new players that will ''make a difference'' to what we already have.The two signings Andreu/Dorrans will make little difference in the rarified atmosphere of the Prem League and  our very future will depend on us having both the knowledge (and bravery) to give us a chance by equipping our squad with the right material/depth for the battle ahead.If AN gets this bit right he will without doubt be the most sought after manager around.

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Dorrans gas played plenty of PL football and was an important player since AN took over. We''ve also signed Mulumbu with, I believe, 200 PL games under his belt. We haven''t done too badly so far, given that the transfer window is yet to open - give the guy a chance and I''m sure he''ll deliver.

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I have no doubt he will Branston. The point I''m making is that as on previous occasions we are starting to recruit either a player that is clearly not up to the task (Andreu) plus players that well experienced PL managers have decided are NOW not able to cut the mustard, and have therefore not renewed their contracts.We are of course not yet even into the transfer window so we wait with baited breathe. I am just saying that in the past we have tried to survive this league with good Championship quality players whereas it has been proven time and time again that against Prem quality opposition it just does not work.If our ambition is to become established in the top flight we do have to push the boat out and take serious (calculated) risk. NOT of course of the RVW type which clearly calculation/research played no part in!

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Given that Performance is 20% Ability plus 80% Attitude and that there is very little to chose between any Prem Player ability wise (there are some exceptions of course) then it appears AN has got what it takes to work on the 80%, Whitts, Cameron, Redmond (to name just 3) have benefitted from AN''s expertise in helping players improve the 80% and if the 80% is improved the 20% probably follows.

So I expect he may well be able to take players that other ''experienced'' PL managers have decided are now not able to cut the mustard and sharpen their mustard cutting edge, therefore increasing the sum of the parts considerably and ultimately our overall performance, well let''s hope so any way.

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Well I Never,

Without doubt, you can''t put one foot in front of the other without involving the brain, apart from a few reflex actions, it controls everything you do, so best it is fine tuned (Attitude or Mindset if you prefer).

I did also prefix by saying that apart from one or two exceptional exceptions most PL players have a similar ability, they can all pass, they can all head, they can all shoot, they can all tackle, to a very high standard, otherwise they wouldn''t be PL players, so what is that sets them apart from each other, their attitude, which in turn impacts their approach to all things football (training, etc.)

Your behaviour is a merciless reflection of your feelings and emotions (attitude) and you alone control these, influenced by outside events and others, undoubtedly, but ultimately you control the way you choose to think about something.

I think we all agree that the three NCFC I mentioned improved their performance quite dramatically after the arrival of AN. How did they achieve this when their physical ability to do the things they are required to do existed before AN arrived?

How often do we hear a manager say something along he lines, I signed him because he has a great attitude or I left him out of the squad because his attitude wasn''t right?

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I''ll keep this short.

There is no doubt that attitude is of great importance.

Quoting unfounded housewives tales about demeanour does not help your argument.

Eighty percent attitude?? Seriously??!!

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Well I Never,

I thought I had made myself clear, Yes seriously. Nothing I have wriiten is unfounded, it is scientifically based. On what basis do you make your assertions?

As I said, behaviour is a merciless reflection of feelings and emotions, I guess you don''t feel 80% is correct, hence your behaviour (statements).

How about if I say to you, "Seriously??!! You don''t get that it is 80%??

Anyway I''m glad you believe attitude is of great importance, the % is perhaps neither here nor there, we both agree it is important and I assume therefore you also believe that a manager who fully understands its importance can get more from a player than a manger who does not, which was my overall point.

From what I''ve seen and heard AN does understand, so the future is bright.

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Ray

Whilst we obviously agree generally, I can''t let some of your assertions pass without comment.

It is not up to me to disprove your claims. The onus is on you, as claimant, to prove your statements. I would love to see the scientific proof of this 80 percent attitude/20 percent ability claim. Not even sure how it would be scientifically approached.

This smells like American self-help guru speak, coined for an eighties t-shirt.

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Well I Never,

Glad we agree we agree. However I have not asked you to disprove my claims but asked on what basis you made your assertions, which you made quite forcibly and I quote "you don''t actually believe that 80 percent attitude *** do you?!"

The Pareto principle is a generalised view and I fully accept ability/knowledge may well play a bigger % than 20% for certain professions, brain surgeons possibly.

However if you search google for 80% attitude or how the brain works you will find a myriad of links. Can it be scientifically proven, I doubt it as we are still learning about the brian and will continue to for a very long time I suspect, but to be fair to me I didn''t say it could be, I said scientifically based.

For sports oriented info try these for starters;

http://breakingmuscle.com/family-kids/the-pivotal-role-of-attitude-in-youth-sports-performance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/clips/zjgpb9q

I once heard Didier Drogba say, "90% of my performance is in my head."

Now I''m going to watch the ladies second half quarter final (2 - 1 up at the momen).

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[quote user="Ray"]Well I Never,

Without doubt, you can''t put one foot in front of the other without involving the brain, apart from a few reflex actions, it controls everything you do, so best it is fine tuned (Attitude or Mindset if you prefer).

I did also prefix by saying that apart from one or two exceptional exceptions most PL players have a similar ability, they can all pass, they can all head, they can all shoot, they can all tackle, to a very high standard, otherwise they wouldn''t be PL players, so what is that sets them apart from each other, their attitude, which in turn impacts their approach to all things football (training, etc.)

Your behaviour is a merciless reflection of your feelings and emotions (attitude) and you alone control these, influenced by outside events and others, undoubtedly, but ultimately you control the way you choose to think about something.

I think we all agree that the three NCFC I mentioned improved their performance quite dramatically after the arrival of AN. How did they achieve this when their physical ability to do the things they are required to do existed before AN arrived?

How often do we hear a manager say something along he lines, I signed him because he has a great attitude or I left him out of the squad because his attitude wasn''t right?[/quote]Ray, I find you posts interesting and useful. But I have a problem with your 20 per cent/80 per cent formulation, particularly as outlined above. It seems to me too monolithic, in that - leaving the very occasional genius aside - you are attributing the same level of skill to all players ("...they can all etc to a very high standard...").But wthin that broad standard some are just that little bit better than others. They don''t have a better attitude. They are just more skilful without threatending to be geniuses. That is why teams that teams that establish themselves in the Premier League then try to upgrade in various positions.Take us and left-back. We started with Tierney (arguably not PL standard), upgraded to Garrido, who had previously played at the top level for Man City and Lazio, and then upgraded again to Olsson. No genius but just a slight improvement on the perfectly adequate Garrido. West Brom have let Mulumbu go, presumably not because his attitude is wrong but because they think they can now do better.The second point is that you seem, as I read it, to be saying that with some of our improved players what has happened is that the coach has in crude terms got them to work harder. Their skill level is the same but they are putting it more effort. But isn''t it more likely that it is a case that the coach is just better at utilising their strengths than his predecessors? Take Redmond, one of your examples. Is he trying harder or is he simply being used tactically more cleverly by Neil than he was by Hughton and Adams? His effort is being better channelled. I don''t see enough football to be sure, but from all I have read the answer is the latter.

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Hi Purple,

Thanks for your considered input.

To be fair to me I said similar ability and I have gone on to say the Pareto principle is a generalisation but the ability/attitude split is in that ball park. I gave Well I Never some links, however there are thousands of articles and scientific studies out there.

I have had long discussions with ''successful'' people, whatever that means, and they all attribute their ''success'' to having the right attitude, and some have even argued that it is as high as 90%.

The main point is that attitude plays a major (and often misunderstood) part in performance and having a different attitude will, without doubt, give a different level of performance. Therefore it could be argued that it has a 100% impact, however to be frank, whether it be 100%, 90% or 60% it is the major driver in performance, particulalry so when ''innate'' aptitude is similar.

Moving on, I didn''t mean the player is putting in more effort (but if he is that is probably because of a change in attitude) I meant that the manager was getting more from him in terms of confidence, etc. by using his own skills to help the player change his attitude toward certain things, that is not to say they had a bad attitude in the first place. Simply having an understanding of the power of your brain, and how it works, in itself can help you harness that power even more effectively and efficiently, which in turn will begat an even more effective and efficient perfromance.

So it is very possible that if our manager truly gets the attitudinal impact and has the skills to help players on this aspect of their game, then it may well be he can get an improved performance from players other managers believe are no longer cutting the mustard. I think he does.

Now, if you really want to get into a circular argument, then try this one, - Do you control your brian or does your brain control you!!.

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[quote user="Ray"]Hi Purple,

Thanks for your considered input.

To be fair to me I said similar ability and I have gone on to say the Pareto principle is a generalisation but the ability/attitude split is in that ball park. I gave Well I Never some links, however there are thousands of articles and scientific studies out there.

I have had long discussions with ''successful'' people, whatever that means, and they all attribute their ''success'' to having the right attitude, and some have even argued that it is as high as 90%.

The main point is that attitude plays a major (and often misunderstood) part in performance and having a different attitude will, without doubt, give a different level of performance. Therefore it could be argued that it has a 100% impact, however to be frank, whether it be 100%, 90% or 60% it is the major driver in performance, particulalry so when ''innate'' aptitude is similar.

Moving on, I didn''t mean the player is putting in more effort (but if he is that is probably because of a change in attitude) I meant that the manager was getting more from him in terms of confidence, etc. by using his own skills to help the player change his attitude toward certain things, that is not to say they had a bad attitude in the first place. Simply having an understanding of the power of your brain, and how it works, in itself can help you harness that power even more effectively and efficiently, which in turn will begat an even more effective and efficient perfromance.

So it is very possible that if our manager truly gets the attitudinal impact and has the skills to help players on this aspect of their game, then it may well be he can get an improved performance from players other managers believe are no longer cutting the mustard. I think he does.

Now, if you really want to get into a circular argument, then try this one, - Do you control your brian or does your brain control you!!.[/quote]Ray, thanks for the answer. While ignoring your cunning circular argument I would still argue that you are underplaying the role of tactics. Take van Wolfswinkel. Recently I ploughed through a thread on a St-Etienne fans''s forum looking back at his season. There was pretty much unanimity (mirroring the view here) that if (note the "if"!) there is a position at which he can excel it is feeding off a target man.So if we played him in a 4-4-2 this coming season he might do much better than he did in our relegation season. It wouldn''t be a question of Neil unlocking previously unused or underused mental powers. He would just be playing in the one position that suited him. And scoring goals - while we got relegated in 20th as the opposition poured through our undermanned midfield... As for succesful people attributing their success almost entirely to having the right attitude, I don''t buy that! That is false modesty from people not wanting to boast. I am quite happy to say that the reason I performed as well as I did in my profession was that I was better at it - in many cases much better - than most others. It had very little to do with attitude, although that came into it,  and most to do with talent.

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Hi Purple,

Tactics are a reflection of the manager''s attitude toward the beautiful game!

Re succesful people, I can only report what they say and successful people rarely if ever show ''false'' modesty imo and I argue it is attitude which unlocks latent talent, in your case were there others about who could perform as well as you, almost without doubt, but they didn''t. Just as there are almost without doubt people out there who could be better players than Messi, Ronaldo, etc. but aren''t.

Bottom line is, it''s your brain which controls everything you do, the day you were bon it had 10 to the power 6 of information, now it has appprox 10 to the power 15, which means 99.9999999% of what is in your brain (neural coonections) you made, well that is according to Prof Susan Greenfield author of the Hunan Brain anyway.

We do appear to be waging peace on each other, but it is great to see, and take part in, healthy and respectful debate - as in this thread - thanks.

Off to luch now and a couple of well earned pints - cheers.

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A good debate.

Still not sure that I agree that the Pareto principle applies to the sporting world at all, in fact it seems a contentious issue in business, the field where it is most often utilised.

My first few posts were a little brusque and dismissive though Ray- apologise for that. Good to have some healthy discussion though.

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