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nat_canaries

RVW again (sorry)

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RVW didn''t have the greatest of games yesterday, Alex. He missed a sitter in the second half after good work by Murphy down the left.

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[quote user="craigbrown2015"]Hogesar is so desperate to criticise RVW - he will even criticise when he scores. Man you are an idiot - you can''t even appreciate that scored for us against Cambridge. People like you don''t support our players - you want to criticise when they do something good.

I agree with LDC - RVW has ability to score goals and create goals as was demonstrated by his pass to set up Toffolo to score against Cambridge. [/quote]
Whilst this is a whole post of stupid, I thought i''d honour you with a reply anyway.
1) I have no ''desperation'' to criticise RVW. He makes it far too easy to criticise him for me to be desperate.
2) I do not criticise him scoring. He scored ONE goal against Everton ALL season. It was a header. It was a good finish, but nothing special.
3) I can appreciate he scored against Cambridge, however unlike you, I don''t think that automatically qualifies him to be a Premier League Footballer. Lot''s of players who ply their trade in non-league have scored against Cambridge over the years. What''s your point?
4) I do support our players. If Alex Neil decides to start him in the Premier League this season i''ll be disappointed because I don''t think he''s good enough but i''ll get behind him. 
5) RvW can score goals. Can he do it in the Premier League though, consistently? Evidence so far says no, therefore he''s no use to us. He doesn''t have the benefit of additional assets which can make up for it either. No strength, no pace, no particularly good first touch, can''t hold the ball up etc etc.
6) Again, it''s great he got an assist. It was against Cambridge, though. I fancy myself to smack a ball into the 6 yard area against Cambridge and a Norwich player might get on the end of it. I don''t think I should be starting in the Premier League, though.
7) Last season he did not do well. He was not regarded as a success their by anybody other than yourself. Even St Etienne fans didn''t see the point in signing him, along with their coaching team. Out of those 9 goals, 3 of those were against lower-league French teams in the French Cup. I think he scored about 5 league goals in 26 appearances. Not great. Which, considering he also failed the season before that at NCFC, means he''s had two poor seasons in a row.

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[quote user="Alex "]Spot on Eddie - isn''t going to happen mate. This is a manager whom is trusted and that the board want to keep!.

@Purple, I think you''re missing the point CD Mullins is trying to make re ''I told you so agendas'' - he''s not talking about people who''ve had a negative view of RvW from the day of signing (99% of us were all excited I think!) - he''s referencing the more ''critical'' or ''extreme'' posters who have since slagged Ricky off over the course of the last 18 months and thus don''t want to look stupid if he does indeed turn it around this coming season. Therefore by getting Ricky offloaded now, there will be no chance of the lad proving them wrong. Sounds silly I know, but some people do appear to take their own footballing views very very seriously and RvW having an excellent season would give a handful of the slightly more strongly opinionated posters some serious egg on face!.

FWIW, it sounds like he played pretty well again last night so the early indication to me is that AN''s style of play and also man management skills are maybe, just maybe, what we need to see our club record signing come good - and only a fool would write off the Alex Neil effect.[/quote]
Hmm, personally I know a lot of fans who don''t rate RvW, but I don''t know any that wouldn''t be happy to be proven wrong about him.
Also, having watched the game, I thought RvW put in a shift yesterday but was largely ineffective, and missed what looked like a sitter too. However, I wouldn''t say he was any worse particularly than any of our other strikers.

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@LegendIwan - wasn''t suggesting he had the greatest of games, just that he played well judging by the comments I''ve picked up on. And just because of his past, we can''t be too critical he missed a chance, that''ll happen to him and any other striker during a game.

@Hogesar - Like PurpleCanary, I too saw a chap in a home shirt at Wembley bearing your Pink''un name, nearly came over to see if it was you also!

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[quote user="Alex "]Spot on Eddie - isn''t going to happen mate. This is a manager whom is trusted and that the board want to keep!.

@Purple, I think you''re missing the point CD Mullins is trying to make re ''I told you so agendas'' - hem''s not talking about people who''ve had a negative view of RvW from the day of signing (99% of us were all excited I think!) - he''s referencing the more ''critical'' or ''extreme'' posters who have since slagged Ricky off over the course of the last 18 months and thus don''t want to look stupid if he does indeed turn it around this coming season. Therefore by getting Ricky offloaded now, there will be no chance of the lad proving them wrong. Sounds silly I know, but some people do appear to take their own footballing views very very seriously and RvW having an excellent season would give a handful of the slightly more strongly opinionated posters some serious egg on face!.

FWIW, it sounds like he played pretty well again last night so the early indication to me is that AN''s style of play and also man management skills are maybe, just maybe, what we need to see our club record signing come good - and only a fool would write off the Alex Neil effect.[/quote]

Spot on Alex,

Many on here had wrote him off after 10 games and constantly used him as a stick to beat the club.

They''ll be alot of egg on faces should he come good.

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[quote user="Alex "]Spot on Eddie - isn''t going to happen mate. This is a manager whom is trusted and that the board want to keep!.

@Purple, I think you''re missing the point CD Mullins is trying to make re ''I told you so agendas'' - he''s not talking about people who''ve had a negative view of RvW from the day of signing (99% of us were all excited I think!) - he''s referencing the more ''critical'' or ''extreme'' posters who have since slagged Ricky off over the course of the last 18 months and thus don''t want to look stupid if he does indeed turn it around this coming season. Therefore by getting Ricky offloaded now, there will be no chance of the lad proving them wrong. Sounds silly I know, but some people do appear to take their own footballing views very very seriously and RvW having an excellent season would give a handful of the slightly more strongly opinionated posters some serious egg on face!.

FWIW, it sounds like he played pretty well again last night so the early indication to me is that AN''s style of play and also man management skills are maybe, just maybe, what we need to see our club record signing come good - and only a fool would write off the Alex Neil effect.[/quote]Alex, you are right. I did miss that point, mainly because CD Mullins didn''t say that was the point he was making. It might have helped if he had done so at the outset rather than have to have you interpret for him.But is that convoluted explanation at all true? I don''t think so. If anything the opposite is the case. In seven decades, and certainly in the internet era, I cannot remember a player for whom so many allowances and excuses have been made to try to explain a poor on-field performance. Far from being slagged off, the majority of posters here have bent over backwards to defend van Wolfswinkel and to try to find positive things to say.If there is any ego-defending (and I am not convinced there is but...) it is far more likely to be from those pro-van Wolfswinkel posters not wanting to be proved wrong. Hence the straw-clutching that is still going on despite the fact that we tried to sell him back to Sporting Lisbon.I cannot speak for anyone else but the reason why I want him gone is not convoluted but very simple, and nothing to do with not wanting to look stupid in cyberspace. I just don''t think he is any good* and we cannot afford to have him taking up a place in the 25-man squad. We can and need to do better.---*Based partly on his performance with us but much more so on his failed season with St-Etienne (the considered views of their fans) I don''t believe he is good enough for any one of the five top European leagues. All the evidence is that his level is below that.

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I didn''t see all the match but I noticed RVW was effective at coming very deep into midfield and produced a nice layoff for Andreu. He can obviously play the ball well, but some folk won''t be happy unless he''s charging around and clattering into people.Making up stories, quoting trivia and tapping a calculator is no substitute for studying the football.

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Did RVW really "miss a sitter" last night or is this another case of people''s opinions colouring what they "saw"? I didn''t see any sitters missed in the latter part of the game; best chance was VOO''s, who blasted over.

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[quote user="westcoastcanary"]Did RVW really "miss a sitter" last night or is this another case of people''s opinions colouring what they "saw"? I didn''t see any sitters missed in the latter part of the game; best chance was VOO''s, who blasted over.[/quote]I think it was the chance he missed when Jacob Murphy crossed to the near post and he sent it wide under pressure. Not a sitter, but could have done better, maybe.

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Hardly a sitter, if he''s guilty of anything it''s getting to far across the goal and making the angle difficult, he was also under pressure from the defender.

A sitter is a free shot in the box with only the keeper to beat, that certainly wasn''t one of those.

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Ah, oops, sorry, forgot it''s RvW of whom we have to describe his style and ability in a positive light only.
When I said "missed a sitter", what I meant to say was:
"RVW made an excellent run, only Messi would have thought to make the same run, and even then he wouldn''t have had the strength of RvSuperWinkle to get in front of the defender. He then made it so easy for Jacob Murphy (ha! the peasant!) to play the ball into RvW, however stupid peasant boy hit it too hard and made it far too difficult, I can''t possibly think of another striker in the world who would have been able to do better with that chance".

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="westcoastcanary"]Did RVW really "miss a sitter" last night or is this another case of people''s opinions colouring what they "saw"? I didn''t see any sitters missed in the latter part of the game; best chance was VOO''s, who blasted over.[/quote]I think it was the chance he missed when Jacob Murphy crossed to the near post and he sent it wide under pressure. Not a sitter, but could have done better, maybe.

[/quote]

Exactly, not a sitter. Much harder to score than not given the angle and his run being well tracked. VOO''s chance was much easier; he blazed over when well-placed (but of course nobody has it in for VOO at the moment).

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The stream I watched did not show clearly what happened at all, perhaps there are HD highlights that I have not seenWhether he missed, was kicked as he shot or even if the defender got a deflecting block in it wasnt clear to me.He played ok, most of the team played "ok"but it was just a friendly with players missing and others filling positions in which they not comfortable.If he stays then I hope he comes good if he goes then I hope his replacement comes good.

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Highlights from yesterday''s match are here (apologies if it''s not an active link): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ8-O0HL-n4&feature=youtu.be

As you will see around 2 minutes onwards, RVW misses an easy opportunity. He''s hardly under pressure and is only six-yards out when he sends his effort wide.

My statement that he missed a sitter has nothing to do with "people''s opinions colouring what they saw''." Quite simply, it was a chance that he should have put in the net.

What VOO''s miss has got to do with a point about RVW, Westcoastcanary, I don''t know. Commenting about one doesn''t mean the other has to be mentioned, they''re not mutually exclusive.

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The stream/highlights of that game on youtube are not amazing quality so very hard to see what chance it was.

What was clear was that it was a tight angle cross and there was a defender tackling/pushing into him whilst he tried to get it.

Also I noticed there were many moments RVW was calling/pointing for the ball to be passed to him via a throughball yet it was not and instead the ball was passed to Murphy on the left wing whom had many poor crosses deflected by the defence.

Importantly as well, no other players seem to be getting much attention even though they are making similar errors/not scoring/poor crosses/passing.

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Thanks for the linkPlayed it and paused it several times, good run but looks like he got there a fraction too early and tried to hook the ball in with his trailing leg.Not going to criticise any of the players from last night, not sure we worked their keeper once but its pre season and it was a mishmash of players and positions.

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just watched the better quality highlights from @LegendIwan

My comment still stands for the first chance he had which was difficult but the second seems similarish, except he seems to have approached it with his left foot at a strange off balance angle with pressure form behind.

Looks like he was trying to clip it in with his left foot but instead the approach didn''t work and it went straight rather than bending into goal.

He fell over afterwards so maybe he was off balance before kicking with his weaker foot? Does he have a weak foot? I guess he could have touched it with his right foot to tap it in.

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I don''t really see how a missed half-chance in friendly pre-season stroll around in Austria can have any relevance to the debate as to whether RVW has the necessary or not.

Especially as we all had the chance fully to evaluate him during the last Premier League season.

There seems to be a kaleidoscope of opinions about the merits or otherwise of this player.

Personally, I veer towards the nays, whilst, by contradiction, would be fascinated to see him given a chance and be exceedingly delighted if he comes off.

We all miss the point though. Is the continued presence of Rikki in the squad and on the payroll worth us missing out on the star striker we have all been expecting?

THIS COULD HAPPEN, imo. We are not Chelsea.

(The availability of squad places is also a very pertinent consideration.)

It''s a No, no a thousand times no from me. A major pity, but no! I have spent enough mental pressure on the RVW factor. Let''s have a new boy to concern ourselves with and one who will present us with far higher expectations in the striking department. Probables against possibles, if you like.

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[quote user="KoromaCrab"]Also I noticed there were many moments RVW was calling/pointing for the ball to be passed to him via a throughball yet it was not and instead the ball was passed to Murphy on the left wing whom had many poor crosses deflected by the defence.[/quote]Exactly the same thing as happened under Hughton, except instead of it going left to Murphy, it went right to Snoddy instead...

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mmm, maybe this will be noticed by the coaching staff to help encourage such passes?

It''s just i could see such a pass/throughball being played to Ricky, and him collecting the ball well and having a good chance on goal.

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@Purple - that''s a very fair point about the flip side of the coin regarding the ego defending of RvW - perhaps that''s true and some want to be ''told you so''s'' if he does come good, I''d not thought of that.

If RvW stays then I hope there''s a good reason for that, and that that is Alex Neil''s seen something in him that is worth pursuing and will be for the greater good of our club. I guess I have a hard time writing him off because I remember Iwan''s first season all too well and for that reason I think it''s sensible to give any player that pulls on the yellow and green the benefit of the doubt. I think he''s looking better in pre season so far from what I''ve now seen and heard so here''s hoping :).

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FFS he has failled and failled and failled again, lots of straws being clutched!!

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