Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Wishbone

No Centre back

Recommended Posts

Your right Ellis, I thought Olsson was poor last season as well (our worst performer last season imo) which is surprising because he seemed to be our bright light in our relegation season. However the pro list doesn''t mean much - Richard Keogh was also voted in the team as well if I''m not mistaken? and Derby fans hate him (perhaps thats a bit strong, they just think he''s $hit).

Personally I can see Olsson having a good season even with Brady coming into the side whereas Whitts and Martin together is always a worry. Martin is good on the ball but struggles to do Whitts'' defensive duties for him I feel a lot of the time - imo one of them has to be sacrificed...not literally though, just moved to the bench.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think it is important to not read too much context into something that was said in a quick post-match chat to a local reporter.

I doubt AN made the comments strategically to but clubs off the scent or to avoid prices being raised (if so why mention that he does want to get a striker, goalie and left back?).

With only 4 centre backs at the club, one with a long injury record and another who clearly wasn''t fancied last season, it is pretty clear that it is a position that needs addressing. Seems like there might be a lot of action over the next few weeks as the club look to push ahead with a few signings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tumbleweed wrote the following post at 27/07/2015 3:13 PM:

If he publicly says we are looking for a CB, their price will then double straight away.

--------------------------

? If we bid for a clubs CB, they''ll know that we''re looking for a CB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think this is a case of AN having to prioritise. It''s well known that there''s a dearth of quality CBs in Europe at the current time, hence Celtic are likely to get the £10m for Van Dijk. To find someone who could walk into our side and ideally has PL experience is going to cost at leasf as much as that. If we say AN''s total budget is £20m(?) then you can see why he may be going with what we''ve got.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bassong Turner has been the best partnership in recent seasons,  esp during the 12/13 season.   It faltered in 13-14 with Turner show the early signs of his slow gradual decline, slightly slower and a little less dominant in the air and bassong unable to hit the heights of his previous season, aided by a team focused on defending to deep highlighting any defensive weaknesses.  Yobo was added in Jan and did improve the back 4 creating a good partnership with Seb before both were jettisoned from Fulham onwards.  

 

Seb remains our best cb but i think that 12-13 season highlights the type of partner he needs to get the best from him and he has still not hit the heights we saw from him early on.

 

The Yobo signing also demonstrates that there are players better than our current ones and that it is possible to sign cbs that improve the back 4 without spending a fortune.   

 

Bennett remains an enigma,  martin and bassong reliable with limitations and turner the one surplus to requirements,  having failed to shine with us or fulham in the champs,  having lost another half yard of pace seems unlikelyto recover his form enough to step up to the prem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="firststeps"]Bassong won''t be replaced. He is head and shoulders above Martin as a centre back.[/quote]

So is Ryan Bennett and possibly Andre Wisdom(e).

Sign Van Wijk and Martin should be competing for the right back position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wisdom now signed on loan which means we have another CB to compete with Martin as well as covering the RB slot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Wisdom deal will conclude our defence for the season, I would be amazed if we sign another defender of any sort - who could we realistically get that would be better than what we have? if we sign another defender it would only be further backup and as has been said earlier in the thread we already have back up to Bassong and Martin who will undoubtedly start as number one choice pairing. Brady is obviously now the cover for Olsson even though he hinted in his interview that he prefers to play ''further up the pitch'' so i dont think we''ll be seeing any reinforcements there. A journeyman goalkeeper, and just possibly some sort of underwhelming striking option in the last 5 minutes of the transfer window (eg Becchio, Kane, Kamara), would be about par with our last 10 or more transfer windows wouldnt it? Is there any reason to think it will be more exciting than that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am very surprised by the fact that we did not sign a permanent centre back by now.

I think that was the key position to be filled ,wisdom is adding to our level on the right side but a key centre half was needed.

Even with our good track record at the end of the last season there were mistakes and in the premiership we cannot afford these mistakes.

I have faith that we will improve and mulumbu will help our defence a great deal. But I certainly feel this is the area we will talk about a great deal over the season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We do seem a bit unbalanced, very strong midfield options, plenty of strikers but to me significantly short at the back. I haven''t seen Wisdom play so I can''t comment but I have been expecting a major CB acquisition and would be delighted if we did as I would be much more hopeful going into the new season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Worries me a bit Martin and Turner not pacey enough also Bassong not that quick but reads game well, I think we missed a trick with Chester going to Wba

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="smooth"]I am very surprised by the fact that we did not sign a permanent centre back by now.

I think that was the key position to be filled ,wisdom is adding to our level on the right side but a key centre half was needed. [/quote]Wisdom IS a centre half, but who has been used as an RB in recent seasons (much like Russ Martin).Most Liverpool fans thought he''d be competing with the likes of Lovren and Skrtel for a place in the centre of defence this season, so unless a real top class defender (or with great potential) such as Van Dijk is signed, I''d expect Wisdom to be the last defensive signing for the centre/right side, but we may still yet see another LB come in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Permanent is the key to my statement Indy Bones

I think Wisdom is a good signing.

But I feel that a genuine starter was needed. RB, Turner are not suitable cover unfortunately. 3 centre halves where two have some questionable abilities in this league is not ideal. I would like another centre half in. Van Dijk is exactly what we need, with caulker moving to soton maybe they are now addressed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think that other than the very top CB''s who cost tens of millions, and there are not that many, in the EPL you expect your CB''s to be done for pace and turned occasionally. The level and pace of the strikers even at the lesser EPL sides is exceptional. For me, its more about how you defend as a "team", work ethic etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree but better individuals make a better team and improvements can always be made. No question work ethic, strength, reading the game, stamina are very important.

If we have a chance to sign better as we did when we got bassong he made a big difference to what we had before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think that we need a centre half yes i know we have signed wisdom on loan for the season but he may have been signed to compete with Whittiker at right back and i know he can play at centre half but he has not really done that much, so he may not be good enough to play there yet but may have great potential but i dont think we can rely on potential.

We need competetion for places and i dont really see Turner pressuring Martin or Bassong for a starting place and the fact we let him go out on loan means that he is not being considered to start, i understand that good solid capable defenders cost money but the cost is greater if we do not stay up this season.

Caulker went on loan for the season to southampton, Chester went for 8 million to West Brom and these are both teams with pretty good defences and they have still strengthened, i would like to think that we are in talks for a centre half and i worry that we are not, if we do not pick up a defender in this transfer window the cost of one in the january window will more than likely cost more money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RB: Whittaker, E.Bennett, Martin, WisdomCB: Martin, Bassong, R.Bennett, Wisdom, TurnerLB: Olsson, Toffolo, Brady, WhittakerThat''s enough options IMO. I know some of those are ''cover'' positions, but that''s nine defenders in total so two for every position plus one extra.On a separate note, we still have Adel Gafaiti on the books – was wondering what happened to him, and found this article that suggests he will be allowed out on loan again. Hamilton, perhaps? [:)]http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13496696.Celtic_teenager_Jamie_Lindsay_joins_Dumbarton_on_loan/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Tumbleweed"]We do seem a bit unbalanced, very strong midfield options, plenty of strikers but to me significantly short at the back. I haven''t seen Wisdom play so I can''t comment but I have been expecting a major CB acquisition and would be delighted if we did as I would be much more hopeful going into the new season.[/quote]

Van Wijk if Celtic get knocked out of the European Championship thingy?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My first post of new season. Am afraid it mirrors seasons past to a degree in that we need another Centre Half. However there seems to be a lot less quality Centre halves about than there were back in the day. I agree VVD from Celtic would be great but it is unrealistic especially with Everton sniffing around. We need a battler who may not be the prettiest footballer but gets stuck in. Someone like Steven Taylor from Newcastle. Not everyone''s cup of tea but leaves it all on the pitch. Am not saying he is the answer but you get the idea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My only worry is say Bassong gets injured......

Would you be confident in Martin/Bennett or Martin/Turner in the premier league against world class opposition

No me neither

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Dubai Mark"]I think that other than the very top CB''s who cost tens of millions, and there are not that many, in the EPL you expect your CB''s to be done for pace and turned occasionally. The level and pace of the strikers even at the lesser EPL sides is exceptional. For me, its more about how you defend as a "team", work ethic etc[/quote]Exactly, there aren''t many fast centre backs in the EPL and hasn''t been for years, pace in a centre back isn''t really required, it''s more about positioning and reading the game. I''d argue that Martin and Bassong are as fast as any centre back pairing in the league which is why I find it funny when people say we need CB''s with pace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I thought Van Dijk was going to be the guy Norwich were aiming for?

Then again, would he leave Champions League football for Norwich?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="KoromaCrab"]I thought Van Dijk was going to be the guy Norwich were aiming for?

Then again, would he leave Champions League football for Norwich?[/quote]

Swapping Scottish football for the Premier League, yes most definitely . . . Choosing us over a more established and reputable Prem team with likely prospects of Europa League qualification or establishing himself to then go on to a ''big'' club, far less likely IMO.

I hope we are seriously looking at him, but if the likes of Everton and Southampton are interested, the only way we''re likely to get him is by acting quickly. I think he''ll more than likely move, but not until the end of August once Celtic have played their CL qualifiers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Alejandra"]My only worry is say Bassong gets injured......

Would you be confident in Martin/Bennett or Martin/Turner in the premier league against world class opposition

No me neither[/quote]The problem is that we simply don''t have the finances to have 2-3 top class defenders sat on the bench earning 75k a week for jack all (unlike sides such as Man City and Chelsea), so our backup options are almost always going to be weaker than a large percentage of the other clubs in the league (certainly the top 8-10), but that doesn''t mean they can''t do a decent job when called upon.That being said, I would have liked to see a genuinely talented defender (someone like Van Dijk) come in, along with a top striker (I don''t think Grabban is good enough for this level, and in truth neither Hooper nor RvW fit in the current style of play very well).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What about that huge guy at wolves who was their captain when they beat Norwich opening game of season, I thought he looked good, he''s also young and he was built like a proper centre half and to be a captain there has to be something about him, that was just a name thrown out there by the way, i wont admit to knowing if they''d be any good, that''s what the manager and scouts are paid for.

But what I am saying here is I refuse to believe there are not players better than what we''ve already got, just needs smart scouting because from the sounds of it then we wont be signing an established premier league/international defender any time soon due to wages etc

We did alight last time using this philosophy under Lambert, young hungry players who stepped it up, maybe people/the club think we are too good for this approach now though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="firststeps"]Bassong won''t be replaced. He is head and shoulders above Martin as a centre back.[/quote]
Bassong went Missing during our last Premier league campaign more than once...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Re the Brentford game and to quote AN, "The goal we conceded was just a mistake, basically. I think the ball goes to Russell. He has tried to see the pass into Youssouf, who had moved in behind the player too early, and Russell tried to manouvre his feet to adjust and slipped over."

So it appears our manager sees something quite different to some on here?

Also something I noticed was that two Brentford forwards tracked Mulumbu across the pitch, before he left the ball to RM, whether RM told Mulumbu to leave it or not we will perhaps never know, but they themselves were not tracked by Seb, consequently if anything went wrong, which it did, RM was left facing two onrushing forwards. Not saying the outcome would have been different but it would certainly have given the Brentford forwards more to think about had Seb been somewhat closer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bassong can''t be constantly running around behind Martin to make sure he doesn''t mess up, though can he?

It was a mistake, and it showed again that Martin is prone to lapses in defence - he needs to knock it back to Ruddy or put his foot through it, a pass to Bassong wouldn''t be particularly hard either.

Put it down to a communication error between new team mates and be thankful it happened in a friendly.

A new centre back is still needed though - just so when injuries/suspensions turn up Norwich aren''t stuck with Ryan Bennett in defence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Bethnal,

I think you may have it right with communication error and it probably won''t be the last of the season but that''s football. I guess it''s called teamwork and RM certainly covered a Seb error later in the game.

Surely CB''s work in tandem and are there to cover each other.

However for clarity, I said he perhaps could of tracked the second forward, which is a completely different thing to constantly running around behind Martin to make sure he doesn''t mess up.

I agree RM makes defensive errors, just as Seb and all the other defenders do, just as all footballers do and I agree he lost control of the ball but AN did put a slightly different slant on it.

May be Mulumbu could have done something different with it, as you say put his foot through it, may be RM told him to leave it, who knows, not I.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...