A New Stadium at Broadland?

[? 20]

Not an away game goes by where i''m not thankful for the location, the amenities, the ease of access, and the character of Carrow Road.It will be a sad, sad day when we follow the current trend of moving to some identikit business park, merely to add that extra % or two to our income.Ricardo got it right - this thread is attempting to solve a problem which doesn''t exist.

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user=" "]Not an away game goes by where i''m not thankful for the location, the amenities, the ease of access, and the character of Carrow Road.It will be a sad, sad day when we follow the current trend of moving to some identikit business park, merely to add that extra % or two to our income.Ricardo got it right - this thread is attempting to solve a problem which doesn''t exist.[/quote][Y]You have nothing to worry about Mr?. The Board are not stupid so there is almost no chance of moving away from Carrow Rd in any foreseeable future.Increasing the capacity at Carrow Rd will be a problem logistically but not an insurmountable one. The only argument to be had is whether we need a 32k or a 35k stadium and how it is going to be financed.Everything else is pie in the sky.

[tom cavendish 0]

TGoMT,Yes people to the west of Norwich would have a little further to travel but the NDR is going to be built. A new stadium with lots of parking might then be more convenient for a lot of those people than going to CR.Consider too that some people to the west of the City already get a bus to the Castle Mall and then walk the rest of the way or get another bus. Therefore getting a bus from the Castle Mall to a new stadium won''t make much difference. It might actually be more convenient as there could be bus stops right outside of a new stadium.Don''t forget that a new stadium could be closer for a lot of people plus there are to be 7,000 to 10,000 new homes built in that area and the biggest businesses based there too.

[lappinitup 629]

What happened to the UEA and the showground?

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]Consider too that some people to the west of the City already get a bus to the Castle Mall and then walk the rest of the way or get another bus. Therefore getting a bus from the Castle Mall to a new stadium won''t make much difference. It might actually be more convenient as there could be bus stops right outside of a new stadium.[/quote]Some do. More catch trains. Trains which terminate at Norwich.[quote user="tom cavendish"]Don''t forget that a new stadium could be closer for a lot of people

plus there are to be 7,000 to 10,000 new homes built in that area and

the biggest businesses based there too.[/quote]7,000 to 10,000 sounds like a lot, but not when compared to the total number already established in and around Norwich. That''s not a good reason to move a club.I''m not sure who''s the bigger idiot. You for continuing to defend the idea, or me for continuing to argue with you.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user=""]Ricardo got it right - this thread is attempting to solve a problem which doesn''t exist.[/quote]The stadium capacity isn''t great enough to meet the demand for some

matches so NC lose potential ticket revenue etc. NC have said that the

club needs a 35K stadium. The problem is how to pay for it

without having a detrimental impact upon the playing budget so the club

has said the the priority is to establish the club in the Premier

League. If the club is relegated then the priority will be to get back

into the Premier League.The problem to solve is how to achieve a 35k+ stadium without it having any negative impact upon the playing budget?In

the absence of a wealthy owner paying for it, there are numerous way of

achieving it but they mostly involve long-term partnerships with other

companies and organisations.The best local long-term

partnerships to explore are going to be with the UEA, council, Aviva

etc. Therefore think about what could be of mutual benefit in the

long-term to fund a 35k stadium (regardless of whether that is at CR or a

new stadium) and provide additional funds for the playing budget.

Sharing land and/or facilities is likely to be the way forward.

[Lessingham Canary 99]

Oh please Mr McNally get us a new signing soon, anyone, so we can get away from this bollox and argue on the quality of the latest player to adorn the yellow & green, green & yellow, and Green, yellow & gold............

[09021980 1]

TC, you''re getting a lot of flack on this, in my opinion undeserved. Here is why:

So much criticism of our beloved club I see on here centres around it not getting a grip on the enevitable growing commerciality of top flight football (whether we like it or not). We can''t fight this reality so embrace it. That would include at some point (provided top flight stability) we need to adapt our clubs facilities/services it offers home fans, away fans, local business, community, etc. that is not achievable simply by putting in more seats at the Carra. I love the place for what it stands for but it is simply not a viable long term option if we are to embrace that commerciality.

If our club has any modicum of business nouse then the next major change to our stadium will be out of the city. Loving the Carra''s heritage, the love of the NR1 postcode or even the city walls will not hold back what I believe to be to the successful business development of Norwich City Football Club. OTBC

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user=""]Ricardo got it right - this thread is attempting to solve a problem which doesn''t exist.[/quote]The stadium capacity isn''t great enough to meet the demand for some

matches so NC lose potential ticket revenue etc. NC have said that the

club needs a 35K stadium.

[/quote]

Nonsense, we are seriously in danger of flying in the face of history here. In 80 years of playing football at Carrow Road there have only ever been 22 games with a gate above 35k.13 of those games were cup games. 11 FA cup, 2 League Cup, 1 Texaco Cup.15 of those 22 games took place more than 50 years ago.It might well be nice to have a 35k stadium but at present there is no prospect of it being needed on any consistent basis. If I remember correctly Mr McNally stated that any prospective new stand would need to be filled to 97% capacity just to break even over the loan period.Gates have averaged in the mid 20k''s for the last decade thanks to an uncharacteristic number of promotion and relegation seasons. There have been many periods in the past when gates have risen only to fall back again with a run of more mundane seasons. Increases population and the popularity of the Premier League will hopefully mitigate against this but Premier League status is not a given for a club of our size.We just managed to sell 40k tickets for the playoff final and I would expect that a fair proportion of those have never been or are never going to be regulars.Yes, 35k would be nice for the occasional big game but in reality something like 32k would be more than adequate.We shouldn''t be wasting money on a prestigious vanity project when we need every penny in order to compete in a league where most things are stacked against us. A bigger and better ground won''t keep us up, but bigger and better players will.

[TIL 1010 4,739]

Tom Cavendish displays the business and financial brain of Ed feckin Balls.

[tom cavendish 0]

ricardo,Yes a new City stand would likely need to be filled very near to capacity just to break-even because the cost of building it would be so enormous.That is precisely a reason why the club should do long-term deals with partners to help pay for it or a new stadium. One that will also provide opportunities for the club to earn additional money to help pay for a better team.

[Gainer the Gopher 0]

Tom has vision and optimism.

Most on here are like scared rabbits.

[Katie Borkins 1]

Tom is trying to solve a problem that doesn''t exist.

Get back to your tortillas.

[lake district canary 4,531]

We could go the whole hog, create a new stadium and have a new nickname for the club too - leave behind the old fashioned "Canaries" and have.......how about the Postwick Posers?  Or the Plumstead Plumbers?   Or maybe the Rackheath Warriors?    We could get the kit designers to come up with a new kit or two........No, on second thoughts................

[ricardo 7,385]

[quote user="Gainer the Gopher"]Tom has vision and optimism.

Most on here are like scared rabbits.[/quote]Unfortunately Tom is blind to the reality.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Gainer the Gopher"]Tom has vision and optimism.

Most on here are like scared rabbits.[/quote]Unfortunately Tom is blind to the reality.[/quote]

Mr McNally said the 35,000 figure would “produce a self-sustainable

Premier League football club”, but the current capacity of 27,000 would

not."

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Gainer the Gopher"]Tom has vision and optimism.

Most on here are like scared rabbits.[/quote]Unfortunately Tom is blind to the reality.[/quote]

Mr McNally said the 35,000 figure would “produce a self-sustainable

Premier League football club”, but the current capacity of 27,000 would

not."

[/quote]That statement was made 2 TV deals ago - when being in the Premier League was worth about £40m less per year.Why do you think he''s cooled on the idea since, and hasn''t been in a hurry to produce said seats?

[tom cavendish 0]

The main car park directly behind the Jarrold Stand was sold to a housing association who have been looking to build 150+ new flats on it.If the housing association build on the car park then where are people going to park for corporate hospitality, Delia''s, disabled parking facilities etc?

[TIL 1010 4,739]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]The main car park directly behind the Jarrold Stand was sold to a housing association who have been looking to build 150+ new flats on it.

If the housing association build on the car park then where are people going to park for corporate hospitality, Delia''s, disabled parking facilities etc?[/quote]

How many people who avail themselves of the corporate facilities or Delia''s do you think drive to Carrow Road and get on the lash before during and after the game ? I suggest virtually none of them.

 

[tom cavendish 0]

A lot of people use the car park when attending events, Delia''s etc. So where would they park if that car park becomes flats?

[chicken 0]

Not only that but how many cars does the car park actually hold? A tiny fraction of the support I would guess. Not only that but as has been pointed out, a large proportion of the supporters make their way to the ground on foot or public transport.This is starting to turn into a really pathetic "my idea is awesome" type argument. Never mind the fact it was me that suggested in argument, that a location along the new northern bypass route would be more appropriate than on UEA grounds next to the university . . . . . I said it was more appropriate - but still not necessary and what do we get? A new thread with Tom claiming it to be his idea, and having data already proving it - when it is clear he simply took my argument against the UEA proposal and plucked some more reasons out of the sky.This is truly sad.

[TIL 1010 4,739]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]A lot of people use the car park when attending events, Delia''s etc. So where would they park if that car park becomes flats?

[/quote]

Not as many as you think I can assure you.

[93vintage 16]

I think part of the reason people want to move away from Carrow Road is because the whole area is a planning experiment gone wrong. The idea seemed to be to replace an industrial surrounding landscape and clean up the urban decay.But it resembles London''s docklands with soulless flats around the stadium, facing onto a vast retail park which borders the insipid Riverside complex. The whole area is out of character with Norwich''s centre.It''s a shame that land prices are so high, which is forcing lots of out-of-town retail park complexes to be build with their identikit huge car parks and warehouse style buildings.In an idea world a city centre stadium would make for a far better experience. At the moment it''s quite a way off from the city centre, with poor bus links and very little general appeal.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="93vintage"] In an idea world a city centre stadium would make for a far better experience. At the moment it''s quite a way off from the city centre, with poor bus links and very little general appeal.[/quote]Yes it is a shame that the bus links to CR are poor. A new stadium could have bus stops right outside of the stadium.

[The Masked Raccoon 0]

Tom, buy an allotment and a big bag of lego bricks please and show us what you could do. Then put the logistics of new roads, train lines and overall improved transport system in with 00 gauge models. You know it ain''t practical with our diverse but small City. Only option is to rebuild stands and that means one season without income on that stand.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="93vintage"] In an idea world a city centre stadium would make for a far better experience. At the moment it''s quite a way off from the city centre, with poor bus links and very little general appeal.[/quote]Yes it is a shame that the bus links to CR are poor. A new stadium could have bus stops right outside of the stadium.

[/quote]

And pop. Any semblance of believable argument has just imploded.

So what happens to roads outside stadiums - oh yeah THEY GET CLOSED! And FYI the buses run to morrisons, Queens Road, and the train station as just three exampl3s. Such a chore to walk all that way.

Blithering idiot.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

There are already established plans in place for the redevelopment of the City stand. The question is when.

Ironically the significant broadcast money from the PL makes the move unnecessary and impractical in the short term.

Over the longer term, burdening the club with debt into the unknowable future is anathema to the board.

Thus in the current climate it is a paradoxical issue that lends itself to the d) Do nothing option.

Parma

[tom cavendish 0]

chicken,There are no bus stops at CR. A new stadium could have them and a bus lane. I

am sure that a lot of people would prefer to be able to be dropped off

all the way to right-outside a stadium particularly when the weather

isn''t very good.

[Molly Windley 76]

I dont think that you have thought through all the issues that would ensue with having bus stops directly outside a football stadium. Ask yourself why supporters coaches do not drop off and pick up directly outside CR or any other stadium.

[Barbe bleu 823]

Tom,

I think that you raise some interesting ideas that would be well worth further examination. Thanks for raising the debate. It is a shame that some seems to think abuse is a valid part of a rational discussion.

I think that if there is to be a 30-35,000 capacity stadium the best and probably only realistic option is the expansion of Carrow Road, but that doesn''t an that shared space along the lines of that you describe in the UWE example should not form part of a proposal.

I think expansion should be a priority. Throwing money at players does not guarantee success but an expansion will guarantee that NCFC is open to the many rather than the few, as is currently the case.

Incidentally I am from London and would always describe a trip to the centre as going ''down-town'' or ''into town''. I never refer to London as a city unless I am referring to banks. Perhaps for this reason no matter the size or status of a conurbation it is always a ''town'' for me.