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Dean Coneys boots

Most disappointing window...

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I would imagine that a combination of unknown manager, poor geography and sensible wage ceiling is frustrating the plans. So we will soon here- we go with what we have got- it wasn''t to be- there is always January and the pot is still there etc ....whilst kicking off with no quality CB. And that, my friends, Iis my concern, we just haven''t made this window work. I would be DELIGHTED to wake up with egg on my face having been proved wrong.

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Vanwink, I do agree about the quality ,and not luxury. It''s just my point is that we have no idea, as to why that is. AN has hinted that not everything has been straightforward, and I think we need to cut a bit of slack here, and not just presume nothing has been done in an attempt to improve the squad. Reasons could have been out of our hands completely

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[quote user="Highland Canary"]Looks like we need some wealthy owners then Herman if we wish to retain our PL status.[/quote]

 

That must be where QPR got it wrong.

 

 

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[quote user="Vanwink"]Crabbycanary3 wrote the following post at 05/08/2015 6:25 AM:

Dean Coney''s boots"]Pointing out that we have barely improved in this window despite the reward of the promotion being with millions has nothing to do with my being a laugh a minute - it is just to point out that something seems seriously amiss

to me

"You are missing the point DCB. The window has 3 weeks to go, and our season will not be defined purely by what happens on the pitch up to that point."

That really is a weak argument Crabby.

If we are going to get in the players we need during this window then we should have done it so that we have the strongest possible team for the first game.

Every point is going to be vital this season, one or two points will probably be the difference between us staying up or relegation, the begins of the season is crucial.[/quote]Crabby will speak for himself but his is not a weak argument. It is a realistic one. A small- to medium sized club such as Norwich City cannot just flick our fingers and sign whomever we want. We are not high enough up the food chain.I like facts. In none of the three previous summer transfer windows in the Premier League did we do all our business before the fisrt game. In 2011-12 Ayala arrived late. The year after, Bassong and Tettey - two key players - arrived late. And the year after that, Elmander.And this problem even affects those at the top of the food chain. So, a prediction, against which you are welcome to predict otherwise. Between now and 6pm on September 1 a clear majority of Premier League clubs will sign at least one more player.

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Not yet having signed a quality CB and striker is frustrating only if you believe we could have done so if we had wanted to (but we lack ambition, are too cautious, too miserly, our scouting network is rubbish, McNally is an idiot, etc. etc.). The explanation is much simpler: quality is not just expensive but in great demand; the kind of players who would without question prove better than what we have are in a position to pick and choose where they play. We are not (yet) an attractive proposition for them. Alderweireld, who did us the courtesy of taking our interest seriously two years ago, ended up at Athletico Madrid, went to Saints on loan last year and is now at Spurs. Why would van Dijk come to us even if we could agree a deal with Celtic?

Given this, which players have gone to competing clubs that people think we COULD and should have signed? Distin? Zamora? It''s no good just saying "There must be someone out there we could sign better than RM at right CB". If we sign someone they need to come with pretty much of a guarantee that they will do the business. I''d like to hear who these players are.

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Many commentators are tipping us to go down as they look at our squad and relative lack of signings and it is hard to refute that on paper we look weaker than many.

I am very surprised that we don''t have a new first choice CB. The Sunday Times described Bassong, for example, and hesitant and cumbersome now. We may not all agree, but he is certainly prone to a mistake or two per game.

I don''t actually agree that we desperately need a new striker. The key for me is the service they get, and hopefully that is where Brady will help. get good balls in and I feel we have strikers who can convert them.

But the big factor for me is the manager. Since his arrival my confidence in him has increased almost game by game (barring Boro at home). I thought his performance and approach at Wembley was one of the greatest one-off managerial performances I have ever seen. And for that single reason while I also feel underwhelmed by the lack of new defenders in particular (and I know nothing about Wisdom so I can''t judge that one), my confidence is increased because I feel that AN is a winner and will have examined everything in his pursuit of survival.

The PL is never an easy place and gets harder each year. But I wouldn''t swap our manager for any of those at our peer group and I think that is what will give us the edge in our quest to survive and then prosper.

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My reference to "weak" argument related to Crabby''s point about the first three weeks of the season, my point was that it is quite possible that one or two points will make the difference between survival and relegation, also potential extra income for finishing higher up the league.

The early games are ones I would target for a good return of points so in that situation getting our best possible squad together, including new players, for the first game could make a significant difference to the outcome of our season.

We have been blessed with a reasonable first few games and we should be putting ourselves in the best possible position to take advantage of that.

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[quote user="Crabbycanary3"]quote user="Dean Coney''s boots"]Pointing out that we have barely improved in this window despite the reward of the promotion being with millions has nothing to do with my being a laugh a minute - it is just to point out that something seems seriously amiss to me

Am I alone in that? I don''t think so[/quote

You are missing the point DCB. The window has 3 weeks to go, and our season will not be defined purely by what happens on the pitch up to that point.[/quote]The window isn''t shut that is fact but the season starts in a few days and pre-season has gone now which is also a fact. You need time to build a new CB pairing, it is just a bit late now. In my opinion it should have been the first area of team addressed and Brady should have been a lesser priority. I like Martin and Bassong and think they are good enough. An injury or loss of form and we jump down quite far in quality after them. Also there is no pressure on them to keep their place if there is no one to take their place.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Vanwink"]Crabbycanary3 wrote the following post at 05/08/2015 6:25 AM:

Dean Coney''s boots"]Pointing out that we have barely improved in this window despite the reward of the promotion being with millions has nothing to do with my being a laugh a minute - it is just to point out that something seems seriously amiss

to me

"You are missing the point DCB. The window has 3 weeks to go, and our season will not be defined purely by what happens on the pitch up to that point."

That really is a weak argument Crabby.

If we are going to get in the players we need during this window then we should have done it so that we have the strongest possible team for the first game.

Every point is going to be vital this season, one or two points will probably be the difference between us staying up or relegation, the begins of the season is crucial.[/quote]Crabby will speak for himself but his is not a weak argument. It is a realistic one. A small- to medium sized club such as Norwich City cannot just flick our fingers and sign whomever we want. We are not high enough up the food chain.I like facts. In none of the three previous summer transfer windows in the Premier League did we do all our business before the fisrt game. In 2011-12 Ayala arrived late. The year after, Bassong and Tettey - two key players - arrived late. And the year after that, Elmander.And this problem even affects those at the top of the food chain. So, a prediction, against which you are welcome to predict otherwise. Between now and 6pm on September 1 a clear majority of Premier League clubs will sign at least one more player.[/quote]But how did we start those seasons? Poorly I would say in the case of Hughton''s time here. The 10 game unbeaten run came after we had 2 weeks of International Break to work hard on the defense. My argument would be that if the signings were prioritised and made early, then this work could have been done in pre-season and ready for the opening game, not 2 months in.

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[quote user="Vanwink"]My reference to "weak" argument related to Crabby''s point about the first three weeks of the season, my point was that it is quite possible that one or two points will make the difference between survival and relegation, also potential extra income for finishing higher up the league.

The early games are ones I would target for a good return of points so in that situation getting our best possible squad together, including new players, for the first game could make a significant difference to the outcome of our season.

We have been blessed with a reasonable first few games and we should be putting ourselves in the best possible position to take advantage of that.[/quote]I understood that, which is why I replied, with facts to back up my argument, as I did. It would be nice in any season, and possibly particularly this one, to do all our transfer business beforehand. But in the real world that is almost never going to happen. For example, three seasons ago we could have got in a journeyman defensive midfielder and ditto centre-back from the Championship, or a lower European league, in time for the first game. But we held on because we wanted better, and got Tettey and Bassong. two players who have proved their longterm worth.Almost certainly that is the case with our search for a striker. There are any number of so-so players we could have picked up by now who wouldn''t have been an improvement, but our sights seem set on a quality acquisition.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Vanwink"]My reference to "weak" argument related to Crabby''s point about the first three weeks of the season, my point was that it is quite possible that one or two points will make the difference between survival and relegation, also potential extra income for finishing higher up the league.

The early games are ones I would target for a good return of points so in that situation getting our best possible squad together, including new players, for the first game could make a significant difference to the outcome of our season.

We have been blessed with a reasonable first few games and we should be putting ourselves in the best possible position to take advantage of that.[/quote]I understood that, which is why I replied, with facts to back up my argument, as I did. It would be nice in any season, and possibly particularly this one, to do all our transfer business beforehand. But in the real world that is almost never going to happen. For example, three seasons ago we could have got in a journeyman defensive midfielder and ditto centre-back from the Championship, or a lower European league, in time for the first game. But we held on because we wanted better, and got Tettey and Bassong. two players who have proved their longterm worth.Almost certainly that is the case with our search for a striker. There are any number of so-so players we could have picked up by now who wouldn''t have been an improvement, but our sights seem set on a quality acquisition.[/quote]I will throw in another example to make this point about how difficult the real world of transfers can be.Two summers ago we aimed to strengthen our strike force. We had already done the deal for van Wolfswinkel (oh the irony...) but wanted one more, and as early as June we set our sights on Ola Toivonen, who can play as an attacking midfielder or as a target-man. He has done so successfully for Sweden.We agreed a deal with PSV, but Toivonen played very hard to get. So as late as August 1, with the season two weeks away, he was still prevaricating. What to do? Keep on trying or go for someone we rate less highly? In the end we did the latter and got Elmander. A good player in his prime but that was too long ago. Toivonen, five years younger, would have been a much better acquisition, and could have been the difference between relegation and staying up.

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Purple I don''t think many people think it is easy to get the right players in, plus I have no idea how it works. Personally I don''t think I''m attacking the club, but we haven''t really been linked with a CB all summer and I would have thought a) We would make this position a priority b) this would lead to a number of solid reports of activity in trying to get these players.

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Lack of rumours doesn''t mean lack of activity - only one transfer rumour that came out significantly before a signing was Robbie Brady. Andre Wisdom turned up on Twitter etc less than 24 hours before signing.

We could be linked with a centre back at any minute and then the club have the obligatory holding the shirt shot within the day.

As Purple says, it is well worth waiting to get the right player. Signing Jerome on 20th August last season shows this.

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It''s all a bit embarrassing really, seeing loads of Norwich fans on here panicking, crying, flailing arms because we haven''t signed as many players as bloody Watford or Bournemouth.
Some people need to get a grip, wait and see what happens, cause y''know, the transfer window isn''t closed yet.

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[quote user="hogesar"]It''s all a bit embarrassing really, seeing loads of Norwich fans on here panicking, crying, flailing arms because we haven''t signed as many players as bloody Watford or Bournemouth.
Some people need to get a grip, wait and see what happens, cause y''know, the transfer window isn''t closed yet.
[/quote]Actually I think it''s been quite a level headed debate overall actually. I''m not sure Watford or Bournemouth have been mentioned much. I think you might be on the wrong thread.

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Comparing the summer and winter windows as well as those from further back than a few seasons is a bit like comparing apples and oranges.Just looking at what''s going on now and what happened in the last couple of summer windows, I''m none too impressed. We should have been busy and had all hands on deck to get our longer term future sorted. I can understand the big buys taking a while, but I feel we should have had a few more of the less glamourous players transfered by now.Poor old Neil Adams is a bit late to the party when it comes to sorting loans out and I''d imagine a lot of the low hanging fruit has already been picked.

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[quote user="hertfordyellow"][quote user="hogesar"]It''s all a bit embarrassing really, seeing loads of Norwich fans on here panicking, crying, flailing arms because we haven''t signed as many players as bloody Watford or Bournemouth.
Some people need to get a grip, wait and see what happens, cause y''know, the transfer window isn''t closed yet.
[/quote]Actually I think it''s been quite a level headed debate overall actually. I''m not sure Watford or Bournemouth have been mentioned much. I think you might be on the wrong thread.[/quote]
Ha! Level headed? The opening point of this thread is that the OP doesn''t remember "A more disappointing window". That is so far from level headed, taking into account i''m 23 years old and can list of several transfer windows with ease where i''ve been far, far more disappointed and we''ve spent far, far less money in too.
Also, Watford and Bournemouth are placeholder names, but irrespectively they''re mentioned on most pages of this thread in one way or another.

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[quote user="93vintage"]Comparing the summer and winter windows as well as those from further back than a few seasons is a bit like comparing apples and oranges.Just looking at what''s going on now and what happened in the last couple of summer windows, I''m none too impressed. We should have been busy and had all hands on deck to get our longer term future sorted. I can understand the big buys taking a while, but I feel we should have had a few more of the less glamourous players transfered by now.Poor old Neil Adams is a bit late to the party when it comes to sorting loans out and I''d imagine a lot of the low hanging fruit has already been picked.[/quote]A doubly baffling post. Isn''t that exactly what has happened? We have made the (arguably) less glamorous signings. The third-choice keeper in. The cover at centre-back and right-back in. The gap on the left side of midfield filled. Two extra bodies in centra midfield. It is the precisely the big-money position of striker that we haven''t sorted out yet (the one gap you effectively acknowledge is hard to fill). Perhaps, too, a high-class central defender, although the striker is plainly the greater need between thsoe two, if we can only have one.As far as Adams is concerned I haven''t read anything at all to suggest he will be involved in deciding whom we get in on loan. His job seems to be following the progress of those we have loaned out.

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PurpleCanary, I was referring to the younger more prospective players that I feel we ought to be buying. Neil Adams can play an important role in this because they''ll probably be in need of a loan at some stage.Call me negative or cynical, but these rumours of megabucks signings switch me off. Our longer term future depends upon making a few bob on transfers instead of paying full whack too often.

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The clearest sign yet that the squad lacks quality is the fact Brady has been trotted out to tell us how much quality we have .Its been a terrible window to date.

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I wonder if we are handicapped in trying to sign a striker on the continent because they will notice the last high-profile Euro signing we made has flopped completely. It must be off-putting and AN and the team will have to get over the case why it will be different next time...

Overall we''ve done solid but underwhelming business so far, adding to a squad which was better than the other promoted teams (and better than our squad for the last season we were in the Prem) at the end of last season. There''s no doubt it would be worth laying out some cash on a top quality striker (who can play up front on his own) and CB but you''d have thought people would understand from when we signed RVW and Elmander that there''s no point signing expensive international strikers if they don''t fit in with the way you want to play.

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[quote user="93vintage"]PurpleCanary, I was referring to the younger more prospective players that I feel we ought to be buying. Neil Adams can play an important role in this because they''ll probably be in need of a loan at some stage.Call me negative or cynical, but these rumours of megabucks signings switch me off. Our longer term future depends upon making a few bob on transfers instead of paying full whack too often.[/quote]But I repeat, there is no indication at all that Adams is having any say in the signing of players. No mention, for example, of him being on the football committee. Indeed, all the signs are that Alex Neil has won back at least some power (possibly pretty much all of it) from the football committee over signings. So even if you are right in thinking we should concentrate on cheaper players rather than expensive ones your comment that by only hiring Adams now we have missed out on such low-hanging acquisitions makes no sense.

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At the moment our dealings seem to indicate that we''re already preparing for relegation. We''re saving pennies but stand to lose pounds.If nobody is arriving because we can''t agree fees or wages then we need to loosen the purse strings.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="93vintage"]PurpleCanary, I was referring to the younger more prospective players that I feel we ought to be buying. Neil Adams can play an important role in this because they''ll probably be in need of a loan at some stage.Call me negative or cynical, but these rumours of megabucks signings switch me off. Our longer term future depends upon making a few bob on transfers instead of paying full whack too often.[/quote]But I repeat, there is no indication at all that Adams is having any say in the signing of players. No mention, for example, of him being on the football committee. Indeed, all the signs are that Alex Neil has won back at least some power (possibly pretty much all of it) from the football committee over signings. So even if you are right in thinking we should concentrate on cheaper players rather than expensive ones your comment that by only hiring Adams now we have missed out on such low-hanging acquisitions makes no sense.[/quote]Adams wouldn''t sign the players but could act on looking to loan as soon as we sign. We might for instance not want to sign a player unless we had a club committed to taking them on loan for a full season. (That way we could potentially take on a few more players than would otherwise be the case).The above is a bit like buy-to-let and hence the ''buy'' part would tend to need to be done earlier than if the club were just buying. I never said that this is what the club intends to do, but it can''t be denied that it would have been preferable to have Adams in place earlier if the club chose to pursue such a strategy.

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[quote user="CanaryOne"]The clearest sign yet that the squad lacks quality is the fact Brady has been trotted out to tell us how much quality we have .Its been a terrible window to date.[/quote]
PMSL! That''s a clear sign that our squad lacks quality? I swear it is commonplace for new signings to be interviewed (even if only by the local press) and to praise the quality of his new team. You wouldn''t expect a new signing to say otherwise, would you? Really, though?
I don''t suppose, in the interest of balance, you''ve looked to see whether any of Watford or Bournemouth''s new signings have said something similar? If they have, is that a clear sign that their squads lack quality too?
I''m sorry; I''ve got to go and dry my pants now...that really is hilarious. 

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[quote user="scrappy33"]We have more money to spend than we ever have but we seem to be shopping in the bargain basement.[/quote]
I have more money now than I ever have but the problem is, the cost of the things I want/need to buy keeps going up too! So I''m still shopping in the bargain basement. It''s down to inflation, doncha know!?

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