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Dean Coneys boots

Most disappointing window...

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So far, with 28 days to go rather than the few imagined by the OP, it has been a pretty successful transfer window, and far from the worst in recent memory. Necessary boxes (such as those highlighted by posters here) ticked include:1) A third-choice goalkeeper.2) Cover at right-back.3) Cover at centre-back.4) A left-sided midfielder.In addition, central midfield has been strengthened by the addition of two Premier League-quality players.The one obvious remaining gap is up front, and it is pretty plain from Neil''s comment about wanting a couple more players, plus the holding back of a fair chunk of money, that we are actively trying to fill that gap within the next 28 days.

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Well if Turner wasn''t good enough last season, how can he be this season? Bennett might have promise but we have no idea how the long injury has affected him. If we get 2 injuries in defence then it will be Wisdom and one of these players as our CBs. I can''t believe Neil thinks that is satisfactory.

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I''ll throw this in as a theory......when Alex Neil walked into Carrow Rd, our players would have undoubtedly been sceptical of this unknown ,young manager, but had no choice but to work to his tune otherwise they''d have been out,

Clearly he won our squad round fairly quickly, but to prospective new players coming to the club, to them Alex Neil ,is still that relatively little known name in the game, and each would need winning over ,just as our players did on Neil''s first day......the difference being that our players, already being here ,didnt have much of a choice....new players do?

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Dean Coneys Boots has got it right in pretty much all that he''s said and to me, there is nothing disloyal or doom mongering about facing up to and discussing these realities.

Yes, there are a few weeks left in the window but we will be a number of winnable games into the season, not to mention the further games that will have passed by whilst any new recruits are integrated.

Obviously, it is not just a case of getting bodies in to bolster numbers, we''ve done that one before. But getting to the panic end of the window doesn''t make ay sense to me. The argument that we are not an attractive destination and cannot compete with the financial elite of the league is true, up to a point.but it hasn''t prevented most other "lesser" clubs from strengthening their squads.

We really need a major boost and soon, especially having suffered such a badly-timed injury on Saturday.

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[quote user="Dean Coneys boots"]Why do we come always seem to be the lowest payers and least ambitious promoted team? I think too many just accept the little Norwich tag- if teams like Stoke and Swansea and wBA can do it - we can too[/quote]http://www.savethestudent.org/uploads/verucasaltbrat.jpg

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]So far, with 28 days to go rather than the few imagined by the OP, it has been a pretty successful transfer window, and far from the worst in recent memory. Necessary boxes (such as those highlighted by posters here) ticked include:1) A third-choice goalkeeper.2) Cover at right-back.3) Cover at centre-back.4) A left-sided midfielder.In addition, central midfield has been strengthened by the addition of two Premier League-quality players.The one obvious remaining gap is up front, and it is pretty plain from Neil''s comment about wanting a couple more players, plus the holding back of a fair chunk of money, that we are actively trying to fill that gap within the next 28 days.[/quote]

Is ''cover'' good enough for the premiership? Wisdom isn''t naturally a full back but can play there. This is different to getting in a premiership quality specialist in that position. I don''t rant and rave like some do about ambition, but there surely must have been better than ''cover'' available? The window is not shutting for a while yet, however, pre-season has gone now, that was the time to blood new defensive units.

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[quote user="danielsroundabout"]Dean Coneys Boots has got it right in pretty much all that he''s said and to me, there is nothing disloyal or doom mongering about facing up to and discussing these realities.

Yes, there are a few weeks left in the window but we will be a number of winnable games into the season, not to mention the further games that will have passed by whilst any new recruits are integrated.

Obviously, it is not just a case of getting bodies in to bolster numbers, we''ve done that one before. But getting to the panic end of the window doesn''t make ay sense to me. The argument that we are not an attractive destination and cannot compete with the financial elite of the league is true, up to a point.but it hasn''t prevented most other "lesser" clubs from strengthening their squads.

We really need a major boost and soon, especially having suffered such a badly-timed injury on Saturday.[/quote]Who are these lesser clubs?Watford with the very well connected owner.Bournemouth with their very wealthy owner.Palace with their years of Prem money.Same as WBA.Soton with very wealthy owners and years of Prem money and fantastic youth system (kerching).Etc....

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Which players have been brought in by other "lesser" clubs that we should have bought instead?I have looked through their signings and apart from Gradel, Cabaye ( who both had club connections) and possibly Chester I see nobody of great note.

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It''s also worth noting that until last summer, and excepting Bony, Swansea haven''t really spent massively and still have a number of their promotion side in their midst along with a couple of players that had been ''rejected'' by more than one premier league club.

Southampton - what you have their is an example of how a very naughty club got off very, very lightly in many respects. They are doing well now, and get a lot of rave reviews about their academy but the reality is that they scout kids brilliantly. Not all are 100% products of their own academy.

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[quote user="hertfordyellow"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]So far, with 28 days to go rather than the few imagined by the OP, it has been a pretty successful transfer window, and far from the worst in recent memory. Necessary boxes (such as those highlighted by posters here) ticked include:1) A third-choice goalkeeper.2) Cover at right-back.3) Cover at centre-back.4) A left-sided midfielder.In addition, central midfield has been strengthened by the addition of two Premier League-quality players.The one obvious remaining gap is up front, and it is pretty plain from Neil''s comment about wanting a couple more players, plus the holding back of a fair chunk of money, that we are actively trying to fill that gap within the next 28 days.[/quote]

Is ''cover'' good enough for the premiership?
Wisdom isn''t naturally a full back but can play there. This is different to getting in a premiership quality specialist in that position. I don''t rant and rave like some do about ambition, but there surely must have been better than ''cover'' available? The window is not shutting for a while yet, however, pre-season has gone now, that was the time to blood new defensive units.[/quote]It is a question of priorities. We simply do not have the money to spend (or the wages to offer) always to get two Premier League-quality specialists for every position.It is a matter of opinion, of course, but all summer my view has been that the one area of the sqaud in which we did not have a single proven PL-quality player was up front. And I wouldn''t be surprised if that has been Neil''s view too.But good strikers cost more money than anyone else. So to afford that high-quality upgrade we have (as mentioned above) cut our cloth accordingly in other areas of the squad.

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GJL

I''ll throw this in as a theory......when Alex Neil walked into Carrow Rd, our players would have undoubtedly been sceptical of this unknown ,young manager, but had no choice but to work to his tune otherwise they''d have been out,

Clearly he won our squad round fairly quickly, but to prospective new players coming to the club, to them Alex Neil ,is still that relatively little known name in the game, and each would need winning over ,just as our players did on Neil''s first day......the difference being that our players, already being here ,didnt have much of a choice....new players do? "

There could well be a bit of that about GJL, add that to the fact that we won''t be paying massive wages, are seemingly very tough negotiators when it comes to transfer fees and it starts to make recruitment of quality players a tough task, certainly a painfully slow one it seems. We were also delayed by the play offs of course.

I am worried that a few days before our first game the squad still looks very thin in key positions, particularly as the games early on are so crucial to our survival.

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My use of lesser was to distinguish them from the top half dozen or so but Herman is right in that a couple have wealthy owners. Others have had Premiership money but I would doubt if the likes of Stoke or West Brom would be more financially sound than City.

There also appears to be a fundamental difference of opinion between what supporters feel is needed. For me, we need a number of players to come in to strengthen the 1st X1. Purple is satisfied with the fact that we have brought in covering players for various positions (goalkeeper, fullback). I am concerned that we have a number of players who have already demonstrated that they are not of Premier league standard. They dropped down to Championship level and did us proud but there should be no place for sentimentality.

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[quote user="danielsroundabout"]My use of lesser was to distinguish them from the top half dozen or so but Herman is right in that a couple have wealthy owners. Others have had Premiership money but I would doubt if the likes of Stoke or West Brom would be more financially sound than City.

There also appears to be a fundamental difference of opinion between what supporters feel is needed. For me, we need a number of players to come in to strengthen the 1st X1. Purple is satisfied with the fact that we have brought in covering players for various positions (goalkeeper, fullback). I am concerned that we have a number of players who have already demonstrated that they are not of Premier league standard. They dropped down to Championship level and did us proud but there should be no place for sentimentality.[/quote]

What price team cohesion and squad togetherness?   Keeping a squad and gradually raising the quality and togtherness over months or even years is vastly preferable for a club like ours than splashing out on several names that may or may not work - the transfer fees/wages combination possibly risking the club''s long term viability.   I even think that on a football level, Alex Neil would prefer to have the players he''s got now and work with them, than get some of the names that were being touted around. 

There is no reason to be disappointed atm.  The squad is strong and we have good players brought in.  Yes, we could do with one or two more, but overall, the squad that went down (that everyone said was good enough to stay up) has been strengthened over the last year, the manager is seen to get the best out of his players, so there really shouldn''t be a huge issue.

We all like a big player to come in - a Hucks, a Dion Dublin even, an RVW (who was to be that big player - but has yet to show it) - but all that really matters is that the players we''ve got perform to their best - and if they do, they are good enough.  The problems start when they don''t play to their best - and AN has proved himself in getting the players to perform well, so that shouldn''t be an issue either, imo.  

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[quote user="danielsroundabout"]My use of lesser was to distinguish them from the top half dozen or so but Herman is right in that a couple have wealthy owners. Others have had Premiership money but I would doubt if the likes of Stoke or West Brom would be more financially sound than City.

There also appears to be a fundamental difference of opinion between what supporters feel is needed. For me, we need a number of players to come in to strengthen the 1st X1. Purple is satisfied with the fact that we have brought in covering players for various positions (goalkeeper, fullback). I am concerned that we have a number of players who have already demonstrated that they are not of Premier league standard. They dropped down to Championship level and did us proud but there should be no place for sentimentality.[/quote]I am not satisfied full stop. I am satisfied with how the window, with 28 days left, has gone so far. We have ticked boxes that many posters here (probably including yourself) demanded be ticked.And I notice you missed out Brady, who is hardly cover but fills a crucial gap on the left-hand side of midfield and strengthens the first XI, as does Mulumbu, and as will the quality striker we plainly want to attract.I and other sensible posters understand, which you seem not to, that we are seriously constrained by finance. We cannot improve all over the squad, especially if we have to put money aside, as we clearly have done, for at least one expensive acquisition.

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DBC spot on

It was a very exciting day at wembley and no doubt the work started then, although very much prior.

We have picked up a genuine prem player, mulumbu... Dorrans is tidy but a good squad player, of course Neil could lift him but that is the same with wisdom. I think he is fine for the right back berth as we have gaping weaknesses that every club will be aware.

Brady was a lot of money for an average player, it may have been an area we needed to fill but we needed a centre half if not two and a striker.

DCB is 100% right. Our back up group are not great, as already been mentioned. We need a centre half an striker. We will see what happens over thenext four weeks. But really not the window we needed or hoped at this stage.

You should always look to improve your first 11 moving the weaker players down to the bench etc. we so far have not.

A good debate on here finally, let''s hope we can pick up the key players ASAP and get them to gel moving lesser players further down the squad pecking order.

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That''s what happens when you''re plastic you forget about all those great signings like Chris Killen, David Mooney and Elliot Omozusi!

Good Times!

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I guess my disappointment at the window so far is largely down to the fact that few people are calling for a major strengthening at CB. Upon promotion, there was almost unanimity in the need to sort this area out. Not to get cover, to get starting line-up players. Not only has nothing happened, listening to reports, nothing is likely to happen.

I accept that Alex Neil has already demonstrated a talent for motivating and getting the best out of people but making a premier league centre back out of Russell Martin will be a task too great. A bit more of a chance with Seb but I do remember how he came to the end of the road the last time we were in the Prem.

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I remember when we were promoted in 2011 the same amount of people were calling for an upgrade on Grant Holt. The same people who wanted the same upgrade in 2010 when we came from league one.

 

Whittaker and Martin both to start on Saturday? Unbelievable Jeff!! [;)]

 

 

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I think we and the media are noticing it.

It is a need we need a centre half and potentially wisdom will be ahead of turner and Bennett... But I also do not feel RM is a perfect fit for all premier league games at centre half.

The scheme and motivational work from AN can help. But can it help but it cannot improve a player dramatically. I do hope we have more offers out for at least 1 permenantly signing at centre half to be a starter to sit along our best centre half bassong.

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Being out of the Prem for a season has meant we fell behind those clubs still in the Prem in terms of investing. Coupled with our clear lack of investment so far this season and in Neil''s own words we are only looking for another one or two then it looks like a very very long season ahead.

Brentford was a prime example where our defence particularly down the right struggled against a fairly average attack (in prem terms)

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What a great thread, no insults flying around.

I just do think that many are under estimating the squad we have, sure more strengthening is needed, but it should be very selective, and that is what appears to be happening.

Also, as has been pointed out, in terms of what we can afford, we should be realistic.

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quote user="Dean Coney''s boots"]Pointing out that we have barely improved in this window despite the reward of the promotion being with millions has nothing to do with my being a laugh a minute - it is just to point out that something seems seriously amiss to me

Am I alone in that? I don''t think so[/quote

You are missing the point DCB. The window has 3 weeks to go, and our season will not be defined purely by what happens on the pitch up to that point.

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Crabbycanary3 wrote the following post at 05/08/2015 6:25 AM:

Dean Coney''s boots"]Pointing out that we have barely improved in this window despite the reward of the promotion being with millions has nothing to do with my being a laugh a minute - it is just to point out that something seems seriously amiss

to me

"You are missing the point DCB. The window has 3 weeks to go, and our season will not be defined purely by what happens on the pitch up to that point."

That really is a weak argument Crabby.

If we are going to get in the players we need during this window then we should have done it so that we have the strongest possible team for the first game.

Every point is going to be vital this season, one or two points will probably be the difference between us staying up or relegation, the begins of the season is crucial.

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Van Wink absolutely spot on.

Each match is vital, every potential point gained and saved is vital.

I remember under worthy dock ova late winner for Blackburn, concentration lapses that have cost us points. Yes they happen, but every game counts.

Lambert a first season we had over 20 points by Xmas. It meant the 2nd half we could get less than we amassed before when teams had worked us out.

Yes you are judged over the season and you target particular games, the relegation mini league and opportune moments in games.

But minimise that judgement, each game you start on 1 point. We need to make the first 10% of the season count, first 4 games and the next 10%. It helps as you amass points during the whole season never having a blip, similar to the run Adams had.

Each game has it''s own merits and opportunity. They cannot be dismissed and hence transfers allow you to improve.

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worst window? relegation under worthy, the security blanket of parachute payments and the over heralded arrival of Jason Jarrett, Andy Hughes & Peter Thorne.

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Not really Vanwink. DCB seems to be saying that the missing players are THE vital bits to our season. The season hasn''t started, and yes we are only 3 days way, but the new players could still arrive before Sat, they might not. the players we have at the mo, could be very well drilled, well prepared, and could take a huge amount of points before the end of the Transfer Window. Would DCB then come on here and say he was wrong? Quite possibly, being glad to be ''proven'' wrong. My point is partly to reply to the pantwetter comment , and say what is the point of coming on here, at this juncture, with a comment like that?  

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*Missed comment from last thread*
We have no idea about what exactly AN has been doing re transfers, and we have no idea what has happened iin the negotiations/medicals etc etc to get to where we are today with  our incoming signings. It''s being made out that just because other , similar teams to us, are signing players (hardly any of which I would want here) that we must sign somebody. It''s quality we need. Quality costs (we can afford it) but quality also takes time to sign

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If new better players are coming in, if, then they should be here for the start of the season. We are not talking about luxury signings here we are taking about a need for more quality in crucial positions like Centre half.

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