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Lessingham Canary

Celtic first to get safe standing !

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http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11787/9879678/celtic-make-history-as-first-british-club-to-implement-safe-standing

So Celtic get safe standing, 2,600 capacity for league games, but revert to seating for European games, wonder how long till we see it in the PL ?

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[quote user="Lessingham Canary"]http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11787/9879678/celtic-make-history-as-first-british-club-to-implement-safe-standing

So Celtic get safe standing, 2,600 capacity for league games, but revert to seating for European games, wonder how long till we see it in the PL ?[/quote]The law will have to change first.

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[quote user="Lessingham Canary"] can see supporters groups putting pressure on authorities now.[/quote]

By authorities you mean the government ?

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[quote user="Lessingham Canary"]Has to start somewhere ? and don''t mean Brentford, can see supporters groups putting pressure on authorities now.[/quote]Oh its definitely a step in the right direction[Y]

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WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT''S STANCE?

The people with the power to lift the legislation that stops standing in the top two divisions of football in England and Wales are the Government, through the Department of Culture, Media and Sport. Their view is as follows:

“We accept that some supporters miss the tradition, character and history of some of our former grounds and many are in favour of the return of standing areas. It is generally accepted, however, that the majority of football grounds are safer and more comfortable than they were twenty years ago.

“Before any change in the legislation, there would have to be a very clear demand, as well as very clear evidence that any such change meets stringent safety standards, presented from all the relevant authorities responsible for stadium safety, including the police, as well as it being clear that this is something that all parties want.”

The Football Supporters’ Federation agrees that great improvements have been made to both the infrastructure of football stadia and the management of football supporters over the past 20 years, but find no evidence linking the improvements in safety to standing itself.

Successive governments have agreed that standing can be made safe (it''s allowed below the Championship) and we believe the debate can only be moved on by a small number of trials of new safe standing technology aimed at collecting real data that can be used to determine whether standing at football is safe.

- See more at: http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/the-legalities-of-standing/#sthash.cyteXPdq.dpuf

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That''d mean I would have to get to the game an hour earlier, to get my place on the terraces, as being such a tall bloke, I wouldn''t want to pee someone off by turning up at 5 to 3, and taking my place!

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Ball has starting to roll!

Common sense is starting to be applied!

Some fans like standing at football!

Standing in a safe standing rail seated area is safer than standing in front of a seat which acts as a trip!

Fans who went to Rotherham recently will remember how dangerous the low back piece of the seat in front was standing behind it!

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I am an advocate of safe standing areas, the interesting thing about this is that teams in Europe have done this for a while. Hamburg have a relatively new ground and they have a large terrace area, they wheel in temporary seating if they are playing a Champions League or Europa League tie.

The really interesting thing about all of this is that it is not a criminal offence to stand at a football match as there is no legislation covering it. You can of course be ejected for standing in an all seater stadium, any action taken against you will be subject to civil law rather than criminal law - To demonstrate how unclear this all is the only time I sat down during the Play Off Final was at half time, and I suspect I was not alone in that, how many of us were ejected from Wembley for persistent standing in an all seated area?

Turning the lower Barclay into a safe standing area could be a cost effective way of increasing the capacity at Carrow Rd......

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"Turning the lower Barclay into a safe standing area could be a cost effective way of increasing the capacity at Carrow Rd...... "

Quite agree FJS

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[quote user="Mr Jenkins"]"Turning the lower Barclay into a safe standing area could be a cost effective way of increasing the capacity at Carrow Rd...... "

Quite agree FJS[/quote]Does it though? A rail seat is pretty much the same dimensions as a normal seat. And if the area is designated standing, I assume it would be one person per seat area?

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As I mentioned in earlier threads about increasing capacity, this will be the way Carrow Road can have 30,000 crowds in the short term. The earlier thread I contributed to pointed to the conversion of around 4000 existing seats to rail seating. This then gives a capacity of 27000 seated or just over 30000 "mixed".

Since many Champions League stadiums are already utilising such arrangements, the Premier League will lobby for change to.

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Morty , the ratios can be found online. Sorry I don''t have the link to hand.

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There was a thread a while ago, can''t find it now, but there was a link to a web site that explained this.

I recall the ratio was 1.5 standing to 1 seated.

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Apparently, as Morty said, across Europe the rule is 1 person in the same area as 1 person in a seat, so capacity wouldn''t change.

There re generations out there who have never stood up (legally) at football, be a shame if they never got to. Also a pain when in a seated area and some stand and some sit, and then a man in a jacket keeps on at you until you sit down !!

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But won''t this upset Liverpool fans and a city still in pain? Surely there is enough mileage to have another Hillsborough inquiry before we rashly return to safe standing?

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" The law will have to change first "

Really, what law would that be - and besides which, we have a Scottish manager so we can follow Celtic''s lead away ...

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[quote user="Surfer"]" The law will have to change first "

Really, what law would that be - and besides which, we have a Scottish manager so we can follow Celtic''s lead away ...[/quote]Section 11 of the Football spectators act of 1989.

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Barclay seats 48/49 the 3rd wrote the following post at 10/06/2015 8:15 AM:

It was stated with this news yesterday , that there is no increase in capacity , merely smaller seats to accomodate the space the rails take ,, still a seat for each person , but locked into place for an all standing event .

Fair enough Barclay, that''s what Morty said earlier.

I had read some of the info on the net which suggested there would be a capacity increase but I am begining to think it''s not correct, or at least not likely to be the outcome even if there was a legislative shift in England.

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Dortmund''s Westfalenstadion uses rail seating. It has a capacity of 66,000 for European/International matches when it is all seater, but this is increased to about 81,000 for league matches when the seats are put in the upright position and fans stand for the entire game.

I''m not sure if Celtic are planning on doing it the Dortmund way, of having the seats locked in the upright position for league matches and down for European (which have different stadium rules) or will just give fans the choice to raise their own seat and stand more safely and comfortably.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]Dortmund''s Westfalenstadion uses rail seating. It has a capacity of 66,000 for European/International matches when it is all seater, but this is increased to about 81,000 for league matches when the seats are put in the upright position and fans stand for the entire game.

I''m not sure if Celtic are planning on doing it the Dortmund way, of having the seats locked in the upright position for league matches and down for European (which have different stadium rules) or will just give fans the choice to raise their own seat and stand more safely and comfortably.[/quote]Yeah I saw that info too, but am a bit confused as to how they actually do it. Because the whole premise of the standing being safe is hinged around each person having a certain amount of room, ie one seat space.

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Okay, a bit of legwork has cleared this up :-[URL=http://s869.photobucket.com/user/mortymccarthy/media/Seats_zpsjluy0xpc.png.html][IMG]http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab257/mortymccarthy/Seats_zpsjluy0xpc.png[/IMG][/URL]

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Surfer"]" The law will have to change first "

Really, what law would that be - and besides which, we have a Scottish manager so we can follow Celtic''s lead away ...[/quote]Section 11 of the Football spectators act of 1989.[/quote]

And to be clear that is a law that applies to england and wales only. Scotland has its own legislature and did not pass this - which is why celtic can make a change.

For us to have standing we will need the government to repeal or amend this act. It does not currently appear in their list of proposed changes and was not in their manifesto. Without gov support even a backbench bill is unlikely to succeed.

We as fans need to get the FA behind this, who wont until the hillsborough inquiry in complete (the event the formed the act in question). Only then will their and fans groups lobbying begin to have an effect in making this change happen.

A great first step - and nothing stronger to support a case than having a working safe example on our doorstep.

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