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Funny old game

AN v NA

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Don''t get me wrong because Alex Neil is doing a great job in getting us back into contention, and more,for the automatics. However what it does show is just how his predecessor underachieved with the same group of players, excepting

Dorrans

From the start of the season it was clear that we had by far the best squad in the division in terms of both quality and depth. We have started to show thus consistently since AN''s arrival as he gas motivated the squad well and uses his options well (hooper today and Redmond against Brighton are fine examples of this).

For me is AN overachieving, or is he only doing what he should be doing with the resources available to him. I suspect we''ll only know the answer next season if/when he takes us back into the premiership, but am confident he''d have more about him than Hughton at that level. We''ll set up to win and may take a few pastings along the way but at least we''ll be entertained.

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AN isn''t overachieving imo. With our squad, as I said at the start of the season, we have the ability to win every game over the other teams. (I''m not saying that we should win every game because that''s near impossible, just that we should be dominating this league). We''ve got the best team and the best squad in the league.

Now we''ve got a manager we''re showing it.

Although I did say any manager could do this job, even if they had only been a manager for a season somewhere, I do feel AN has that something special, he doesn''t seem to be just anyone. He has the same kind of dominance over a club that Lambert did. Except I genuinely feel AN is grateful for the opportunity we gave him, and therefore won''t take a sideways career move to villa...not that i''m bitter ;)

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Neil Adams was fine until we ran into problems, then his inexperience showed, so he achieved, then underachieved.  Given more time, he might have learned/adapted to the job more, but we simply couldn''t afford to give him that time.  Also, I do not think AN is overachieving -  he is simply achieving - and to me he looks as if he is the sort that will achieve at any level.

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Adams was completely out of his depth, starting off all cocky but eventually cracking up under the strain. Hopefully the board have learned their lesson when it comes to putting inexperienced former players in the manager''s office and handing them the chequebook.

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Neil is delivering what an experienced manager should given the players at his disposal. Just think how many points clear we would be at the top of the league had we appointed Lennon last summer. Let''s hope McNally''s action has managed to get us out of gaol. Great afternoon at the Macron today - dare I say even more fun, in the end, than Lambert''s first away win in the prem.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]Neil Adams was fine until we ran into problems, then his inexperience showed, so he achieved, then underachieved.  Given more time, he might have learned/adapted to the job more, but we simply couldn''t afford to give him that time.  Also, I do not think AN is overachieving -  he is simply achieving - and to me he looks as if he is the sort that will achieve at any level.

[/quote]

Let''s not forget NA did the honourable thing & walked away rather than wait for the axe, yes it was coming but would have caused much more disruption had the club sacked him. Clearly never had the experience to cope with this standard

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[quote user="Highland Canary"]Neil is delivering what an experienced manager should given the players at his disposal. Just think how many points clear we would be at the top of the league had we appointed Lennon last summer. Let''s hope McNally''s action has managed to get us out of gaol. Great afternoon at the Macron today - dare I say even more fun, in the end, than Lambert''s first away win in the prem.[/quote]Have you looked at Lennon''s after match interview?  And if you have, could you honestly say he is hands on and totally in control of his forces like AN is?

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What a shame we have this instead of a thread to recognise what Adams''s achieved. When Adams resignded we were in a position to go on to do what we have. A much stronger position than Cardiff and Fulham who were enjoying similar advantages. The difficulties relegated have are well documented but Adams still managed to keep us in contention throughout the difficult Summer Window and the months leading up to January. In fact it wasn''t until the January Window closed that the togetherness of the squad really began to be apparent.

 

So we could reverse the question and ask if Alex Neil would have achieved this had he come in during the summer. And of course we can''t answer that question. Would we have got Dorans earlier. Or would Tony Andreu have been used instead of Wes had he been here earlier? Would Alex Neil have signed Cameron Jerome and Lewis Grabban? Maybe not or he may have signed people even better.

 

I''m grateful that Neil Adams guided us through the most difficult period for relegated clubs. I''m grateful that he managed to hold together a squad made up of some players on their best contracts and some enduring a 40% pay cut. Was that easy? I don''t think so. For David McNally to enthuse about Bradley Johnson''s loyalty means there must be a flip side. And the body language when this question was asked at the AGM suggested the flip side was a problem.

 

I''m sure whether we win promotion or just miss out Alex Neil will be the first to recognise Neil Adams contribution.

 

 

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[quote user="funny old game"][quote user="lake district canary"]Neil Adams was fine until we ran into problems, then his inexperience showed, so he achieved, then underachieved.  Given more time, he might have learned/adapted to the job more, but we simply couldn''t afford to give him that time.  Also, I do not think AN is overachieving -  he is simply achieving - and to me he looks as if he is the sort that will achieve at any level.

[/quote]

Let''s not forget NA did the honourable thing & walked away rather than wait for the axe, yes it was coming but would have caused much more disruption had the club sacked him. Clearly never had the experience to cope with this standard[/quote]

It is a mute point as to how much he walked and how much he was pushed, but it was an easy transition time and results weren''t affected in any way but for the good.  Credit all round, really.   Hopefully NA will have learned from his experience as manager and will help him in his career development.  

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There is one key figure that Neil has that Adams didnt, be it of Adams'' own making or not.....and that is of course Bassong.

I doubt that even Alex Neil could have dragged this team into the top 2 since he''s been here if we were still muddling through with a combination of Turner/Cueller/Hooiveld.

Bassong is proving what we knew all along in that he''s comfortably our best defender and its no coincidence that our run has coincided with his return.

makes it all the more unbeliveable that we sanctioned a loan to one of our direct promotion rivals for the first half of the season.

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Agreed. He is doing what he should be doing with the relativeresources available to him. Where I disagree is that he will remain loyal to Norwich in the long term if successful. As with Saunders/ Bond/ Walker/ Lambert, etc if given the chance to manage a bigger club he''ll want a crack at it. He has moved from Glasgow and his family to manage us. That shows ambition which is one of the drivers to help him to deliver success. He''ll have no qualms in doing the same again when the time is right. What we have to do is milk him for all he''s worth whilst he''s with us. That''s the hierachy of the footballing world in the sane way we took Lambert from Colchester or indeed AN from Hamilton. If he didn''t have that drive and ambition he wouldn''t be a success with us, so you can''t have your cake and eat it.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

What a shame we have this instead of a thread to recognise what Adams''s achieved. When Adams resignded we were in a position to go on to do what we have. A much stronger position than Cardiff and Fulham who were enjoying similar advantages. The difficulties relegated have are well documented but Adams still managed to keep us in contention throughout the difficult Summer Window and the months leading up to January. In fact it wasn''t until the January Window closed that the togetherness of the squad really began to be apparent.

 

So we could reverse the question and ask if Alex Neil would have achieved this had he come in during the summer. And of course we can''t answer that question. Would we have got Dorans earlier. Or would Tony Andreu have been used instead of Wes had he been here earlier? Would Alex Neil have signed Cameron Jerome and Lewis Grabban? Maybe not or he may have signed people even better.

 

I''m grateful that Neil Adams guided us through the most difficult period for relegated clubs. I''m grateful that he managed to hold together a squad made up of some players on their best contracts and some enduring a 40% pay cut. Was that easy? I don''t think so. For David McNally to enthuse about Bradley Johnson''s loyalty means there must be a flip side. And the body language when this question was asked at the AGM suggested the flip side was a problem.

 

I''m sure whether we win promotion or just miss out Alex Neil will be the first to recognise Neil Adams contribution.

 

 

[/quote]Oh that is a magnificent post Nigel [Y][:)] We are in a great place right now, but nobody could realistically say we

wouldn''t be in this exact same position if  Adams and Phelan had

remained at the helm. I''m grateful that the latter put us in such a

strong position before Alex took the reigns - and I''m certain he is

coming from the shi*e that is the Scottish League, it must have been

similar to a substantial lottery win taking over a potential Premier

League side a point outside the play-offs with over half the season

left. Alex is proving to be a good manager, but please let''s not disrespect the love of our club and work that Adams put in.

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[quote user="Highland Canary"]Neil is delivering what an experienced manager should given the players at his disposal. Just think how many points clear we would be at the top of the league had we appointed Lennon last summer. Let''s hope McNally''s action has managed to get us out of gaol. Great afternoon at the Macron today - dare I say even more fun, in the end, than Lambert''s first away win in the prem.[/quote]Is that the same Lennon that has barely moved Bolton up the table? The one that was beaten by the inexperienced Neil Adams and the young Alex Neil?

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"barely moved up the table"

They were 23rd when Freedman left. They''re now safe. He''s done a great job there. I don''t like him, but he''s done good job there. Just because Norwich have now done the double...just, doesn''t mean he wouldn''t have been successful here.

Past is past though. I don''t wish to talk about Adams as i''ve done that enough over the last year, but would like to congratulate ANeil on getting us into the automatics, which he thought was almost impossible (look at ''city 360''), is now very much a reality. The run that we''ve gone on since ANeil has been here has been incredible, but needed.

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[quote user="mrs miggins"]"barely moved up the table"

They were 23rd when Freedman left. They''re now safe. He''s done a great job there. I don''t like him, but he''s done good job there. Just because Norwich have now done the double...just, doesn''t mean he wouldn''t have been successful here.

Past is past though. I don''t wish to talk about Adams as i''ve done that enough over the last year, but would like to congratulate ANeil on getting us into the automatics, which he thought was almost impossible (look at ''city 360''), is now very much a reality. The run that we''ve gone on since ANeil has been here has been incredible, but needed.[/quote]Well we''ll never know. Highland constantly coming up with the ''fact'' he would have taken us up is a load of tiresome bollox as well. There are no guarantees in football. Some appointments work, some don''t. Adams wasn''t good enough due to inexperience, but he left us in a decent position for Alex to start from, so deserves a little hint of credit.(Lennon has done an ok job rather than a great job btw).

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34 games 13 wins 9 drawswould put them on 59 points as it stands (12 off the playoffs)best to judge him next season when he has had time to sort out the squad

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I agree with you in that there''s no point in talking about ''if lennon were here or not'' - personally i don''t like the guy and never wanted him here in the first place.

On the subject of if he''s done a good job or a great job, for me it''s probably somewhere in-between.

Bolton''s results shown below:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/bolton-wanderers/results

Seeing as though he came on the 12th October, the results since have been very good for the club. Let''s not forget, this is a club who''ve got Gudjohnson and Heskey as their strikers. Yes they were once pretty good, now they''ve got arthritis. I would say he''s done an impressive job, as in, i''m impressed that he''s managed to do as well as he has with that team, but this is all pretty irrelevant to Norwich.

On the subject of whether Adams deserves any credit for leaving us 11 points off the automatics with half the season already gone, not even in the play-offs, i''ll leave that for others to decide.

But what I would say is that when after the Preston game when I said that he had to go in the next game (where I was told there''d be no chance of it so i better button it), i''m glad Mcnally didn''t even give him that.

Very happy with ANeil, only wish we had him from the start, I think he''s going to be a premier league manager.

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[quote user="Herman "][quote user="mrs miggins"]"barely moved up the table"

They were 23rd when Freedman left. They''re now safe. He''s done a great job there. I don''t like him, but he''s done good job there. Just because Norwich have now done the double...just, doesn''t mean he wouldn''t have been successful here.

Past is past though. I don''t wish to talk about Adams as i''ve done that enough over the last year, but would like to congratulate ANeil on getting us into the automatics, which he thought was almost impossible (look at ''city 360''), is now very much a reality. The run that we''ve gone on since ANeil has been here has been incredible, but needed.[/quote]Well we''ll never know. Highland constantly coming up with the ''fact'' he would have taken us up is a load of tiresome bollox as well. There are no guarantees in football. Some appointments work, some don''t. Adams wasn''t good enough due to inexperience, but he left us in a decent position for Alex to start from, so deserves a little hint of credit.(Lennon has done an ok job rather than a great job btw).[/quote]I like facts. Lennon took over a woefully underperforming Bolton squad and in his first 10 league matches was raking in 1.8 points per game. In the next 21 games (which sequence started with two wins, in case it might be thought I have chosen 10 games to manipulate the figures) Bolton have being  gaining 1.23 points per game.You could then argue that good start was just a case of new manager bounce. I wouldn''t go that far. It might be; it might not. Next season (as with Hughton at Brighton) will be the time to judge Lennon.But having listened to Lennon''s post-game comments, including the rather revealing "As a manager I don''t know what to do or say. We made the changes to see the game out [I assume this means play for the draw] and from there it''s down to the players" I must say I am not surprised we - and several other Championship clubs - steered well clear in the summer. I think it not insignificant that it took a club in freefall, as Bolton were, to take the risk of hiring Lennon.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

What a shame we have this instead of a thread to recognise what Adams''s achieved. When Adams resignded we were in a position to go on to do what we have. A much stronger position than Cardiff and Fulham who were enjoying similar advantages. The difficulties relegated have are well documented but Adams still managed to keep us in contention throughout the difficult Summer Window and the months leading up to January. In fact it wasn''t until the January Window closed that the togetherness of the squad really began to be apparent.

 

So we could reverse the question and ask if Alex Neil would have achieved this had he come in during the summer. And of course we can''t answer that question. Would we have got Dorans earlier. Or would Tony Andreu have been used instead of Wes had he been here earlier? Would Alex Neil have signed Cameron Jerome and Lewis Grabban? Maybe not or he may have signed people even better.

 

I''m grateful that Neil Adams guided us through the most difficult period for relegated clubs. I''m grateful that he managed to hold together a squad made up of some players on their best contracts and some enduring a 40% pay cut. Was that easy? I don''t think so. For David McNally to enthuse about Bradley Johnson''s loyalty means there must be a flip side. And the body language when this question was asked at the AGM suggested the flip side was a problem.

 

I''m sure whether we win promotion or just miss out Alex Neil will be the first to recognise Neil Adams contribution.

 

 

[/quote]

 

What a good post Nutty and, I would suggest, the only appropriate and balanced perspective to be put forth. Others who make idiotic comments ( as one or two do on this thread ) as if they were operating from a position of knowledge should learn from your perspective , thereby avoiding making foolish and unsubstantiated remarks. The positive inputs regarding Lennon are also over-hyped and premature.

 

P.S: For Lakey, I would just point out that "mute" is one of the buttons you''ll find on your remote control.

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How can anyone compare us with Cardiff and Fulham when arguing the ability of managers? They sold all their players because the owners buggered up, whereas we kept all our players. Although some may point out a few of the unfortunate signings we''ve made, I think the signings of Grabban and Jerome (in particular, have been a revelation that none of us saw apart from him) more than make up for it because all we needed to do was add to the great squad that we had. Adams and the board recognised this and, because mcnally remembered to put in relegation clauses for everyone, managed to keep them.

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[quote user="Herman "]Adams wasn''t good enough due to inexperience, but he left us in a decent position for Alex to start from, so deserves a little hint of credit.(Lennon has done an ok job rather than a great job btw).[/quote]

Grabban and Cameron, 30 goals between them this season - who signed them? Who politely walked away in 7th with over half the season left?A ''little hint'' of credit my ar5e [:@]

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[quote user="mrs miggins"]How can anyone compare us with Cardiff and Fulham when arguing the ability of managers? They sold all their players because the owners buggered up, whereas we kept all our players. Although some may point out a few of the unfortunate signings we''ve made, I think the signings of Grabban and Jerome (in particular, have been a revelation that none of us saw apart from him) more than make up for it because all we needed to do was add to the great squad that we had. Adams and the board recognised this and, because mcnally remembered to put in relegation clauses for everyone, managed to keep them.[/quote]

We sold quite a few players, Fer, Snodgrass, Pilkington etc.,the replacements we bought have done well, Cardiff (Pilkington) & Fulham (McCormack) bought players who haven''t done that well for them.

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We shall have to agree to differ Herman. Whatever, let''s hope the board get away with that egregious error of last May. Year two in the championship would have disasterous consequences for the squad.

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

What a shame we have this instead of a thread to recognise what Adams''s achieved. When Adams resignded we were in a position to go on to do what we have. A much stronger position than Cardiff and Fulham who were enjoying similar advantages. The difficulties relegated have are well documented but Adams still managed to keep us in contention throughout the difficult Summer Window and the months leading up to January. In fact it wasn''t until the January Window closed that the togetherness of the squad really began to be apparent.

 

So we could reverse the question and ask if Alex Neil would have achieved this had he come in during the summer. And of course we can''t answer that question. Would we have got Dorans earlier. Or would Tony Andreu have been used instead of Wes had he been here earlier? Would Alex Neil have signed Cameron Jerome and Lewis Grabban? Maybe not or he may have signed people even better.

 

I''m grateful that Neil Adams guided us through the most difficult period for relegated clubs. I''m grateful that he managed to hold together a squad made up of some players on their best contracts and some enduring a 40% pay cut. Was that easy? I don''t think so. For David McNally to enthuse about Bradley Johnson''s loyalty means there must be a flip side. And the body language when this question was asked at the AGM suggested the flip side was a problem.

 

I''m sure whether we win promotion or just miss out Alex Neil will be the first to recognise Neil Adams contribution.

 

 

[/quote]

 

What a good post Nutty and, I would suggest, the only appropriate and balanced perspective to be put forth. Others who make idiotic comments ( as one or two do on this thread ) as if they were operating from a position of knowledge should learn from your perspective , thereby avoiding making foolish and unsubstantiated remarks. The positive inputs regarding Lennon are also over-hyped and premature.

 

P.S: For Lakey, I would just point out that "mute" is one of the buttons you''ll find on your remote control.

[/quote]

Seriously?

I don''t blame Adams himself, he did the best he could but if we end up missing out on promotion this season it will be entirely down to the idiotic decision to give him the managers job. With this squad we probably would have done as well as Adams did had we had no manager at all and just told the players to get on with it because it appears that''s pretty much all he did apart from packing our best defender off on loan to the team who could pip us to a promotion spot.

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It''s threads like this that occaisionally make me feel a bit embaressed to be a Norwich fan if it means being lumped in with some really quite poor attitudes.I detailed at the beginning of the season that this league was no ''walk in the park'' which is exactly what other people thought it would be. That our team on paper should be thumping everyone else. Mainly by people who have no clue as to who plays for the opposing teams, what their form is or where they finished last season.All of this discussion about AN Vs NA and not one person has layed any king of reflection upon the players.Bassong - why are people blaming NA for this? If the rumours are true, he is damned lucky to still be at this club - he really is. I doubt very much that Adams would have shipped him off on loan for thinking he was rubbish. I suspect, as he did with all of the squad, he asked the likes of him, Pilkington, Snodgrass etc if they wanted to remain.Hindsight is a brilliant thing, but I think anyone that labels NA''s appointment as "stupid" needs to go on loan to another club where there are plenty more exampls of what "stupid" is. Blackpool anyone?Give it a rest. Football is all about calculated risks. Sometimes for whatever reason it just doesn''t quite work out. And as I have said before, NA would have been fine if we were where we were a few seasons ago and prepared to give a manager a couple of seasons to get there. Perhaps he could have done a Lambert had he had taken over in League 1 - who knows. But it was by no means disasterous.Again, I said at the beginning of the season, minimum expectation is the play-offs, automatics preferable. As the table suggests, this has been a tough old season for every side whether they stuck with their manager (Bournemouth, Derby, Middlesborough) or whether they opted to change things. All have had a dip in form.That is life. Looking back to lay blame is moronic. Comparing the success of two managers at this point is also a bit premmature. AN is succeeding with pretty much the squad that NA assembled or managed to retain. And we know for a fact that NA managed to keep hold of some players - and by that, I mean persuade them to remain here and fight for NCFC. Hoolahan signing a new deal, Redmond, Ruddy strongly rumoured with moves away and Johnson even saying that he had premier league clubs after him.Lets just put this rubbish to bed, once and for-all and concentrate on what''s next for our club. Otherwise I''ll start throwing Roeder and Grant comparisons into the mix for those that clearly can''t remember what "stupid" and "disasterous" appointments are.

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chicken wrote the following post at 12/04/2015 10:06 AM:

"It''s threads like this that occaisionally make me feel a bit embaressed to be a Norwich fan if it means being lumped in with some really quite poor attitudes."

👍

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