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lappinitup

Question to the Supporters Trust

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From the Labour Party manifesto.........."Football clubs are an important part of many people’s identity and

sense of belonging. They are more than just businesses. But despite

their importance in the lives of their members and supporters, too often

there are no effective means for fans to have a say in how their clubs

are run,” said the party’s manifesto.

“Labour will provide the means for supporters to be a genuine part of

their clubs. We will introduce legislation to enable accredited

supporters trusts to appoint and remove at least two of the directors of

a football club and to purchase shares when the club changes hands
. We

will also review the role of fan participation in other sports"http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/13/top-clubs-invest-tv-income-grassroots-labour-manifestoMy question to the Trust is.......If a labour government is elected and delivers it''s promise to impose two fans representatives onto our clubs board, how will the Trust select these candidates?Will they invite nominations from ALL fans, all shareholders, or will they be selected from within their ranks?And a general question......If owners are forced to hand over a block of shares to supporters trusts at a takeover, couldn''t this mean that majority shareholders like D&M would no longer be ''majority shareholders'', therefore making the sale of a club less likely? Surely any would be investor would want full control?

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[quote user="lappinitup"]From the Labour Party manifesto.........."Football clubs are an important part of many people’s identity and

sense of belonging. They are more than just businesses. But despite

their importance in the lives of their members and supporters, too often

there are no effective means for fans to have a say in how their clubs

are run,” said the party’s manifesto.

“Labour will provide the means for supporters to be a genuine part of

their clubs. We will introduce legislation to enable accredited

supporters trusts to appoint and remove at least two of the directors of

a football club and to purchase shares when the club changes hands
. We

will also review the role of fan participation in other sports"http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/13/top-clubs-invest-tv-income-grassroots-labour-manifestoMy question to the Trust is.......If a labour government is elected and delivers it''s promise to impose two fans representatives onto our clubs board, how will the Trust select these candidates?Will they invite nominations from ALL fans, all shareholders, or will they be selected from within their ranks?And a general question......If owners are forced to hand over a block of shares to supporters trusts at a takeover, couldn''t this mean that majority shareholders like D&M would no longer be ''majority shareholders'', therefore making the sale of a club less likely? Surely any would be investor would want full control?[/quote]lapps, the answers, if there are any, may be found in what is referred to here:The sports minister, Helen Grant, convened an expert working group

with representatives from supporter’s trusts to examine the practical

obstacles to greater fan ownership. It is believed to have delivered its

interim report shortly before Parliament was dissolved for the election

but it has not been made public.

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Lapps - - We don''t need any other fans on our board , all our board members are fanatical fans and they are the ones who we re- elect at the agm to look after our club for us.

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[quote user="lappinitup"]From the Labour Party manifesto.........."Football clubs are an important part of many people’s identity and

sense of belonging. They are more than just businesses. But despite

their importance in the lives of their members and supporters, too often

there are no effective means for fans to have a say in how their clubs

are run,” said the party’s manifesto.

“Labour will provide the means for supporters to be a genuine part of

their clubs. We will introduce legislation to enable accredited

supporters trusts to appoint and remove at least two of the directors of

a football club and to purchase shares when the club changes hands
. We

will also review the role of fan participation in other sports"http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/13/top-clubs-invest-tv-income-grassroots-labour-manifestoMy question to the Trust is.......If a labour government is elected and delivers it''s promise to impose two fans representatives onto our clubs board, how will the Trust select these candidates?Will they invite nominations from ALL fans, all shareholders, or will they be selected from within their ranks?And a general question......If owners are forced to hand over a block of shares to supporters trusts at a takeover, couldn''t this mean that majority shareholders like D&M would no longer be ''majority shareholders'', therefore making the sale of a club less likely? Surely any would be investor would want full control?[/quote]As I didn''t get a reply from the Trust when I originally posted this thread a couple of weeks back I thought I''d try again now as things I said then are now being said on the Pinkun main site.........http://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/is_now_the_time_to_trust_in_norwich_city_s_long_term_prospects_1_4044547"And when there are issues, there needs to be healthy debate – which is

where the rebranded and reorganised Canaries Trust wants to play an

active part, without the perceived problems that afflicted the likes of

the Norwich City Independent Supporters’ Association (Ncisa)."It''s difficult to have a ''healthy debate'' when one side isn''t prepared to answer perfectly reasonable questions.But still, I''ll try again.........If a labour government is elected and delivers it''s promise to impose

two fans representatives onto our clubs board, how will the Trust select

these candidates?Will they invite nominations from ALL fans, all shareholders, or will they be selected from within their ranks?
The article ends with these words from the Trust chairman......."The more people we get on board, the more shares we can buy on behalf of the fans and the more of a voice we can give them.”I will be very grateful if this "greater voice" answers these questions as I''m not sure who to vote for yet and the general election is getting very close now. [:)]

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Having read the article on the Trust after receiving a few calls from those involved in NCISA over the years I had to raise my eyebrows at the following quote from Robin.....

 “Ncisa was of its time and important then, but that set-up doesn’t really work any more. You don’t engage with clubs by shouting at them and waving placards. It’s about sitting down with them and giving them a reason to sit down with you"

May I ask how back in the 90''s when NCISA was first formed what dialogue was achievable with an autocratic dictator in the form of Robert Chase ? The demonstrations against his regime was all that was available to fans as pressure from social media was not available 20 years ago in the form of Facebook Groups and Twitter etc.

Also....

" we want to appeal to the moderate Norwich City fan. Not the ones who want to protest at absolutely everything, but those who want a grown-up relationship with the club"

Once Chase had gone the new regime left with the aftermath of his tenure formed the SCG which had 3 NCISA officers sitting on it.. Other fans groups were involved during the 10 years or so the SCG existed but it may be of interest to some that despite being invited the Trust never took up the invite. The " grown up relationship" was in place until Mr.McNally came along.

I will agree that NCISA was perceived by some as being rabble rousers but then again it was mainly those that thought Chase was doing a fine job and were not interested in the positives that NCISA achieved through helping the club to the tune of over £50,000 during it''s time or the chance it gave fans to express their views at St Andrews Hall not forgetting the forums with current players which is something else that does not happen these days.

Just felt I had to give some perspective to what I saw as an unbalanced article.

 

 

Good luck with the

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[quote user="Barclay seats 4849 the 3rd"]Why did I get an email saying my post on this thread was deleted ?? I hadn''t posted anything 😳[/quote]I did see a post here early this morning which now seems to have been deleted. But unless you have more than one username it wasn''t from you. It was a very silly post, but in a way it is a shame it was expunged. It was one of those post so silly that it could have served to brighten the day..

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Yes Purple, it was comedy gold. From vintage 93 or some such name?

Though the mind boggles as to why it was removed. There''s a whole thread of trolling about McNally that seems to be just fine.

And some people think the football club have stuff removed from this board....

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[quote user="Barclay seats 4849 the 3rd"]Why did I get an email saying my post on this thread was deleted ?? I hadn''t posted anything 😳[/quote]No but Waveney did. Is that why you need two seats?

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cityangel wrote the following post at 15/04/2015 11:35 AM:

Lapps - - We don''t need any other fans on our board , all our board members are fanatical fans and they are the ones who we re- elect at the agm to look after our club for us

CA If you are referring to the Stowmarket 2 who hold 53% odd of the shares but exercise 100% control - they are the route of the problem not the answer. They dictate who is on the Board - we dont

We need fans on the Board who are not controlled by the Stowmarket 2 (The pair have an iron grip on 4 of the 7 votes which is why every now and again we have ridiculous appointments as Managers, Grant, Gunn Adams etc followed by hilarious statements by the board)

We are one of the laughing stocks of football and will continue to be be until they move aside

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[quote user="Newton"]cityangel wrote the following post at 15/04/2015 11:35 AM: Lapps - - We don''t need any other fans on our board , all our board members are fanatical fans and they are the ones who we re- elect at the agm to look after our club for us CA If you are referring to the Stowmarket 2 who hold 53% odd of the shares but exercise 100% control - they are the route of the problem not the answer. They dictate who is on the Board - We need fans on the Board who are not controlled by the Stowmarket 2 (The pair have an iron grip on 4 of the 7 votes which is why every now and again we have ridiculous appointments as Managers, Grant, Gunn Adams etc followed by hilarious statements by the board) We are one of the laughing stocks of football and will continue to be until they move aside[/quote]

Maybe you should join the Trust,get yourself appointed as a director and then you could tell the rest of the Board we are laughing stocks. Mind you if they ask who is laughing at us I hope you have an answer.

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I felt somewhat bemused as to why none of the Trust''s 700 members had bothered to reply to this thread so I checked on their website and I seem to have found the answer. Amongst their stated aims I found this........ "Although it was an original objective

of the Supporters Trust movement we have no desire, nor intention, of

attempting to put a fan representative on the Club’s Board
"
So, with the Trust effectively ruling themselves out of the running, how should it be decided which two fans are to represent us in the event of a new Labour government forcing clubs to appoint two fans to the board?

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Morty and LDC?

This would ensure that the meetings stay on topic, don''t last too long and don''t degenerate into a personality clash.

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[quote user="Rivvo"]Morty and LDC?This would ensure that the meetings stay on topic, don''t last too long and don''t degenerate into a personality clash.[/quote]

Not Morty, he''d spend too much time at the meetings on his keyboard, but I''ll go on the board for you - that is - if you want Hughton re-instated, the hotel rebuilt, welcome shown by the club to opposing teams, goal music stopped for good, choir practice at 2.30 every Saturday afternoon and lessons in how to be positive when things get difficult on the pitch.  Oh, and Morty bannned from CR for gross egotism.Any seconders? [;)]

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Lakey. To get back on topic, how do you think we as fans should go about selecting two people to represent us if Labour is elected in two weeks time and then go through with their promise to impose two fan/directors to the board?

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[quote user="lappinitup"]Lakey. To get back on topic, how do you think we as fans should go about selecting two people to represent us if Labour is elected in two weeks time and then go through with their promise to impose two fan/directors to the board?[/quote]Yeah, sorry.  An election with candidates putting themselves forward with what their philosophies/attributes are,  polling online on the club website.

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[quote user="lappinitup"]I felt somewhat bemused as to why none of the Trust''s 700 members had bothered to reply to this thread so I checked on their website and I seem to have found the answer. Amongst their stated aims I found this........ "Although it was an original objective

of the Supporters Trust movement we have no desire, nor intention, of

attempting to put a fan representative on the Club’s Board
"
So, with the Trust effectively ruling themselves out of the running, how should it be decided which two fans are to represent us in the event of a new Labour government forcing clubs to appoint two fans to the board?[/quote]Leaving aside the unlikelihood of this happening...I would suggest off the top of my head that the electorate (with one vote per person no matter how many times a person qualified) should consist of:1) All Norwich City employees.2) All season-ticket holders.3) All non-season-ticket holding members of whatever groups the club has for ticketing availability.4) All members of the Canaries Trust (even if the Trust itself doesn''t want to play a part).5) All members of affiliated or acknowledged supporter groups, such as Capital Canaries..

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lappinitup"]I felt somewhat bemused as to why none of the Trust''s 700 members had bothered to reply to this thread so I checked on their website and I seem to have found the answer. Amongst their stated aims I found this........ "Although it was an original objective

of the Supporters Trust movement we have no desire, nor intention, of

attempting to put a fan representative on the Club’s Board
"
So, with the Trust effectively ruling themselves out of the running, how should it be decided which two fans are to represent us in the event of a new Labour government forcing clubs to appoint two fans to the board?[/quote]Leaving aside the unlikelihood of this happening...I would suggest off the top of my head that the electorate (with one vote per person no matter how many times a person qualified) should consist of:1) All Norwich City employees.2) All season-ticket holders.3) All non-season-ticket holding members of whatever groups the club has for ticketing availability.4) All members of the Canaries Trust (even if the Trust itself doesn''t want to play a part).5) All members of affiliated or acknowledged supporter groups, such as Capital Canaries.[/quote]

Surely the vote should just go to whoever are members of the club,  ie, anyone who has paid to be a member?

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Why are you lot even talking about this?

Even if it were 2 bonefide fans appointed - ie not influenced either directly or indirectly by Smith & Jones themselves (which is doubtful) unless the St.2''s share holdings are scaled down to under 50% it won''t make the slightest jot of difference anyway.

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[quote user="ruthers1"]Why are you lot even talking about this?[/quote]Because the Labour Party has it in their manifesto and the general election is less than two weeks away.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lappinitup"]I felt somewhat bemused as to why none of the Trust''s 700 members had bothered to reply to this thread so I checked on their website and I seem to have found the answer. Amongst their stated aims I found this........ "Although it was an original objective

of the Supporters Trust movement we have no desire, nor intention, of

attempting to put a fan representative on the Club’s Board
"
So, with the Trust effectively ruling themselves out of the running, how should it be decided which two fans are to represent us in the event of a new Labour government forcing clubs to appoint two fans to the board?[/quote]Leaving aside the unlikelihood of this happening...I would suggest off the top of my head that the electorate (with one vote per person no matter how many times a person qualified) should consist of:1) All Norwich City employees.2) All season-ticket holders.3) All non-season-ticket holding members of whatever groups the club has for ticketing availability.4) All members of the Canaries Trust (even if the Trust itself doesn''t want to play a part).5) All members of affiliated or acknowledged supporter groups, such as Capital Canaries.[/quote]

Surely the vote should just go to whoever are members of the club,  ie, anyone who has paid to be a member?

[/quote]Possibly, ldc, but I don''t know what that means. Does one pay to be a member of the club? I am a season-ticket holder but I have never paid any kind of subscription. If you mean someone who owns shares then, yes, that category should have been on my original list. All the shareholders should have one vote, if they don''t qualify through another category.

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Why are you lot even talking about this?

Because the Labour Party has it in their manifesto and the general election is less than two weeks away.

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous response...

In other words I get why you''re talking about it but don''t get why you''re bothering.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lappinitup"]I felt somewhat bemused as to why none of the Trust''s 700 members had bothered to reply to this thread so I checked on their website and I seem to have found the answer. Amongst their stated aims I found this........ "Although it was an original objective

of the Supporters Trust movement we have no desire, nor intention, of

attempting to put a fan representative on the Club’s Board
"
So, with the Trust effectively ruling themselves out of the running, how should it be decided which two fans are to represent us in the event of a new Labour government forcing clubs to appoint two fans to the board?[/quote]Leaving aside the unlikelihood of this happening...I would suggest off the top of my head that the electorate (with one vote per person no matter how many times a person qualified) should consist of:1) All Norwich City employees.2) All season-ticket holders.3) All non-season-ticket holding members of whatever groups the club has for ticketing availability.4) All members of the Canaries Trust (even if the Trust itself doesn''t want to play a part).5) All members of affiliated or acknowledged supporter groups, such as Capital Canaries.[/quote]Surely the vote should just go to whoever are members of the club,  ie, anyone who has paid to be a member? [/quote]Possibly, ldc, but I don''t know what that means. Does one pay to be a member of the club? I am a season-ticket holder but I have never paid any kind of subscription. If you mean someone who owns shares then, yes, that category should have been on my original list. All the shareholders should have one vote, if they don''t qualify through another category.[/quote]No, I don''t mean shareholders.  Shareholders do not necessarily have to be fans. Members are those who buy a membership.  Most casuals buy tickets as a member (which is paid for as a subscription) and get a whole large envelope of stuff each year with entitlements and offers and I presume  season ticket holders get something similar, and again I assume that buying season tickets automatically makes them members.   It would be straightforward for the club to identify season ticket holders and members and create a format for voting for a representative, based on a shortlist of people chosen perhaps from within fan groups and ordinary fans who can show some initial support - say 10 people who will back their application.   That way you won''t get thousands of people going for it, just those that can show some following already.

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From what I read on the net .........“Labour will provide the means for supporters to be a genuine part of

their clubs. We will introduce legislation to enable accredited

supporters trusts
to appoint and remove at least two of the directors of

a football club and to purchase shares when the club changes hands. We

will also review the role of fan participation in other sports,”It does not say elect, it says appoint and remove - no voting mentioned or a wider body of fans being involved.Who accredits supporters trusts as I cannot find any football trust accreditation bodies with a Google search?

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[quote user="Molly Windley"]
“Labour will provide the means for supporters to be a genuine part of their clubs. We will introduce legislation to enable accredited supporters trusts to appoint and remove at least two of the directors of a football club and to purchase shares when the club changes hands. We will also review the role of fan participation in other sports,”



[/quote]

Although it was an original objective of the Supporters Trust movement we have no desire, nor intention, of attempting to put a fan representative on the Club’s Board"

 

Would be interesting to know what the Trust say now in light of what Labour has said.

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