You can't keep defending Russell Martin

[Ray 111]

mrs m,

It may have been, in your words, a terrible header, but we had some terrible shots on goal, we had some terrible tackles, we had.... and so I could go on. If a terrible shot results in a nothing then why is that less ''important'' than a terrible header that leads to a terrible midfield marking situation and a terrible ''save''.

Also no-one seems to have picked up on the point I made about sickness in the squad?

Finally ruthers1, I am certainly not your son, as far as I am concerned I am not old, I am definitely not a liar and I do not have memory loss. Your words serve to reinforce my assertion, that what you say tells me a great deal about you. IMO you are clutching at straws but if you want to carry on taking me on with the written word the I look forward to the contest.

[mrs miggins 0]

*''It''s not as if Martin has been poor at CB all season''

It''s meant to say :)

[havemyhowsonit 0]

[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]Better at RB. R. Bennett is a safer pair of hands at CB but Neil has built a partnership there with Bassong.[/quote]

You didn''t watch the Rotherham game then.

Russell Martin is now a cart horse. How he got in the team of season I''ll never know

[ruthers1 0]

If you insist on taking me on with the written word the I look forward to the contest.

the I look forward to the contest?

Not as much as I do on this evidence Ray!!!!!!

[mrs miggins 0]

Ray wrote the following post at 09/05/2015 4:39 PM:mrs m,

It may have been, in your words, a terrible header, but we had some terrible shots on goal, we had some terrible tackles, we had.... and so I could go on. If a terrible shot results in a nothing then why is that less ''important'' than a terrible header that leads to a terrible midfield marking situation and a terrible ''save''.

-----------------------------------------------

We could talk about our tackles if you want? Dorrans made a really bad tackle (although imay have actually been a good decision to get that yellow because they were on the counter attack). in itself it was a terrible tackle, however it''s not a defining moment in the game so why would we discuss it at length? Whereas Martin''s terrible header which gave them possession on the edge of our box with Ruddy also palming it to them resulting in a goal, well that''s something to talk about.

The Dorrans terrible tackle is less important than Martin''s terrible header because it didn''t give them a goal

[Ray 111]

mrs m,

But the point I am making is that, a terrible shot, tackle, marking or save (which there was one) could all lead to a goal or lack of, it''s just why do some pick on the one that did and pillory the palyer(s). Why can''t we all be posiotive about our performance, given, and I state yet again that some of our squad were ''under the weather''?

FFS, we have a home leg to come and the other point not picked up ion is that some players do read what fans say, so why make their life more difficult than it is?

[Ray 111]

ruthers1,

The fact you need to pick up on a typo, perhaps says it all.

In Delia''s words, let''s be having you" or not as the case may be. Please if you are going on the attack make worth my while.

[ruthers1 0]

Whatever you say Ray, however you decide to spell it.

[mrs miggins 0]

Ray wrote the following post at 09/05/2015 5:04 PM:But the point I am making is that, a terrible shot, tackle, marking or save (which there was one) could all lead to a goal or lack of, it''s just why do some pick on the one that did and pillory the palyer(s). Why can''t we all be posiotive about our performance, given, and I state yet again that some of our squad were ''under the weather''?

--------------------------

And my point is sir that its a lot to expect people not to say anything when a player has cost us a goal. A terrible shot, tackle, marking etc could have all leaded up to a goal, but it didn''t. The ''under the wether'' comment doesn''t excuse that mistake however it would give a reason for the lack of energy we showed in the last 15-20mins, yet the scum also played at this slow tempo. Again, no-one has mentioned this because it is not important to the narrative of the game itself and key moments within it. Errors aren''t all the same, some are more costly than others and therefore when a player does make a really costly mistake, then they will be blamed for it.

[sonyc 5,511]

Yes he made an error but there we are. He will be disappointed but will be even more determined next time. Get over it. We have another game and can get to Wembley. Time simply to get behind the team, nothing else for it. Sometimes strikers miss chances....shock horror

[nutty nigel 7,531]

The point that hits home for me is Rays comment about the dominant thoughts and the brains being hardwired to over react. Many people ddidn''t like Martin at CB and ccomplained constantly. But after Alex Neil kept him there the quietened a little. But any mistake, like today, gets a total over reaction because the dominant thought is that he''s not a CB. Even when he''s named in the PF team the professional footballers are derided for not knowing there stuff because of that dominant thought.

Other dominant thoughts that have produced similar over reactions this season have been any misplaced pass from BJ. Any time Wes has lost the ball and any mistakes from Whits. The fact that Martin, Whits, BJ and Wes have been four of our most consistent performers this season could never have been guessed by reading OT posts on here.

[ruthers1 0]

The fact that Martin, Whits, BJ and Wes have been four of our most consistent performers this season could never have been guessed by reading OT posts on here.

That''s because they haven''t been NN.

BJ yes I''ll give you that along with Tettey, Jerome and possibly Howson but Wes, Whits and Martin? Three of our most inconsistent performers this season maybe.

[Ray 111]

ruthers1,

Game over then, suits me as I have more challenging things to be getting on with on a Saturday night.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend, I know I will.

Cheers

Ray

[93vintage 16]

We have had spells under Alex Neil where our possession and passing has been quite good. But if we can''t keep hold of the ball then there''s a risk of nervousness creeping in and spreading amongst the players, and this is what generally happened today. Martin was one of many poor performers.Our interplay in midfield was the root cause of our overall problems, but the good news is that we can do a lot better. We need to create space by passing our way out of pressure situations instead of getting pushed back endlessly and resorting to trench warfare type kicks forward.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

And added to that probably our least consistent performer, certainly defensively, this season has been Olsson about whom we hardly hear a peep...

[Ray 111]

mrs m,

I fully appeciate and understand your point, however why do fans feel the need to attack/blame players for every single thing that goes against us, they are playing against highly paid professionals who are paid to exploit us and if they didn''t from time to time they would be sacked. Even the Prem champions concede goals and make mistakes.

My main point is that players do read this stuff, so let''s be as positive as we can be.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend and the build up to next Saturday, bring it on is what I say!

[Ray 111]

Nutty,

Some falls on stony ground, but not is your case (although that does sound somewhat pratronising it is meant to be complimentary).

Have a great weekend.

Cheers

Ra

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

Martin has the potential to cost us this tie....uncomfortable both in the air and on the ground today, there''s little doubt that Ipswich will target him as the weak point next weekend.....and then should we get past that, there''s the small matter of in all probability, M''boro, against whom he''s struggled in both games this season.

Should have resumed a reasonable Bassong/Turner partnership this season when Bassong returned in January.

[mrs miggins 0]

"Enjoy the rest of your weekend and the build up to next Saturday, bring it on is what I say!"

-------

You too

[Rich T The Biscuit 562]

I''ve said for weeks that he has been at fault and for me (my view) didn''t warrant a 3yr deal, he is nowhere near good enough for premier league (and before anyone says, neither are some others, ie. Whittaker)

He didn''t lead by example today and that''s his job, if we get through the next game and will likely face Boro, he will need to pull his socks up else he''ll get the runaround from Bamford again, had better hope Bassong kicks him again and slows him down.

This isn''t about blaming an individual, it''s about getting results and he has cost us this season.

Still he has that new contract in his back pocket so sure he''s happy and doesn''t care what we think.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Rich T The Biscuit wrote the following post at 09/05/2015 7:44 PM:

I''ve said for weeks that he has been at fault and for me (my view) didn''t warrant a 3yr deal, he is nowhere near good enough for premier league (and before anyone says, neither are some others, ie. Whittaker)

He didn''t lead by example today and that''s his job, if we get through the next game and will likely face Boro, he will need to pull his socks up else he''ll get the runaround from Bamford again, had better hope Bassong kicks him again and slows him down.

This isn''t about blaming an individual, it''s about getting results and he has cost us this season.

Still he has that new contract in his back pocket so sure he''s happy and doesn''t care what we think.

If you''re right my boy, and I don''t believe that you are, but if you are right I hope that AN has the same level of appreciation as you do, and drops him for the next game.😳

[Move Klose 303]

The whole Bassong Martin pairing is hardly convincing but much better than weve seen this season Hooiveld Cuellar Turner. The best of a bad bunch. Ryan Bennett is not the answer but i believe hes a better centre back than Martin but i dont think now is the time to be trying that pairing.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

CJRV 2014 wrote the following post at 09/05/2015 7:57 PM:

The whole Bassong Martin pairing is hardly convincing but much better than weve seen this season Hooiveld Cuellar Turner. The best of a bad bunch. Ryan Bennett is not the answer but i believe hes a better centre back than Martin but i dont think now is the time to be trying that pairing.

Yep. AN has faith in the spine of the team, which we have and which will not change.

Who knows what will happen next season but for the next two games I would be amazed if the spine changed.

I could say I would eat my hat, but that''s not quite so extraordinary these days!

[Highland Canary 76]

Martin has been the weakest link in the team all season. Hopefully, Ryan Bennett will get the nod next week. Should we return to the PL some serious investment will be needed in the right half of the defence. Remain in the championship, and investment will be needed in the left side as the squad unwinds. At least our lottery ball is still in play with, fingers crossed, two games left.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Grant Holt is still overweight too, he was never good enough or fit enough for us either. Who''d be a footballer eh?  Despite success and superb record at our club, they still get run down by our knowledgeable fans.  Martin had a bad game today?  Well he will get over it.  Just hope the fans do in time for next week.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Martin was not at fault at all for the goal.

The Ipswich methodology inevitable leads to half headers and the squad have worked on second balls all week.

The long punt forward was going over his head and he cannot leave it to run through to Ruddy. He stretches and gets as much on it as possible. The responsibility the. Immediately lies with others.

Whittaker has over-committed going forward and is horrible out of position, behind the play. The majority of the error is his.

Ruddy then tries to hold onto the ball and fails. There are players rushing in, so this is key. He cannot - and indeed does not need to - push it out of danger to the side.

Coaches will then look at other defenders picking up the pieces from Ruddy''s spill, seeing who is reacting and not.

Russell Martin''s header is almost irrelevant in terms of culpability for the goal from a coaching perspective. Half headers, lucky ricochets, ensuring impure contacts from defenders is what Ipswich play for and is precisely what the players have prepared for.

Parma

[nutty nigel 7,531]

Indeed Parma. And surprisingly sometime half headers are better defensively than others because while they are in the air players have that split second longer to recover. A powerful defensive header that falls to an opponent can cause more of a problem for the next phase.

 

 

 

 

[vos 155]

Ipswich played a lot of high balls lofted to the edge of the penalty area. These are not easy to clear for any distance. This by the way was really the only tactic they had because MM simply does not have the talent in the squad to play quality football. Despite the criticisms of Martin, I have to pose the question as to what did big scoring Murphy do today. Not a lot !!!! Neither Bassong nor Martin are powering defenders in the air, but after a nervy start they looked fairly comfortable to me. Accept barely good enough for the Premiership.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Accept what you say about Prem Vos, but for where we are they are a good paring.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

pairing even