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TIL 1010

Ipswich Away Points Is A Lottery And Not A Guarantee.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"][quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]15 away game is fantastic support and certainly regular; well done and a credit to the club. Thank you.

However there are probably 50k+ customers for NCFC. Your (and those thousands like you) committment was recognised by the club by putting you in first, select 5-10% of people able to buy a ticket.

I genuinely commiserate with you for not getting a ticket, its something I have missed out on too; but I am struggling to see why you should be guaranteed a ticket ahead of those others in the 1400+ club or why the club should guarantee any person a ticket for all games? The clubs approach seems proportionate, recognises committement and allows opportunity to those people. As with city and an auto spot you missed out this time.[/quote]

without wanting to labour the point.....the issue here is the 1400 points that you mention.

someone who has been to 15 away games , I''m imagining would have considerably more than that?....high 1900''s or 2000''s??......so that is where the club should have pitched the first priority points bracket??[/quote]

Someone who is a season ticket holder and has been to 15 away games should be guaranteed a seat unless there are more than 2,100 similar supporters who have been to 16 away games or more.

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[quote user="ruthers1"]All this guff and puff about points does my head in. Whoever brought these systems in have a lot to answer for spoiling football and dampening down the atmosphere at grounds.

To me the best away supporters are not the ones with the most points, milk tokens or silver bloody bottle tops anyway but the ones with the loudest voices!

How many times do we see away teams come here with a vociferous following and take the points or win the cup tie? It''s as good as a goal start. Think Vile in the league cup quarters a couple of years ago or Luton in the FA Cup ''shock''.

I''ve been put off going away as there are too many Norwich scarfers who sit on their hands for ninety minutes and fail to get behind the team in any way shape or form- ie actually SUPPORT the team in the true sense of the word.

Until the club realise it is proper support that counts away from home and not simply buying tickets to build up points and Green Shield stamps and using them as a boasting tool on forums like this we will continue to attract the wrong type of supporter away from home.

In fact I would be in favour of reverting back to the days where away games were sold on an open, first come first served basis.

Ok, the club have messed up with this away leg and there is no excusing that but it will probably give us a better mix of supporter at Portman Road, definitely making more noise and giving the boys the kind of SUPPORT they need to build a first leg lead. OTBC![/quote]

I would think that we must have one of ...if not the best away records in this division (certainly since Alex Neil anyway).....so I''ll trust that you''d agree that those who have travelled to watch them away this season haven''t "hindered" the team too much?!

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I would think that we must have one of ...if not the best away records in this division (certainly since Alex Neil anyway).....so I''ll trust that you''d agree that those who have travelled to watch them away this season haven''t "hindered" the team too much?!

I''m not saying you can''t win games with timid support I''m saying you stand a better chance of winning them with passionate vociferous supporters who spur the team on

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[quote user="Matt Juler"]The points based system should make this so easy to manage, but once again NCFC fail to apply logic. All they had to do was work out how many people have points equal to or less than the number of seats and make that the first cut-off. With 1500 points I assumed that a ticket would be guaranteed if I tried to purchase before the next deadline.[/quote]

Absolutely correct but I guess that, if the ultimate decision is being taken by someone who is guaranteed an automatic free seat, there isn''t an awful lot of personal interest in getting it right.

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[quote user="ruthers1"]I would think that we must have one of ...if not the best away records in this division (certainly since Alex Neil anyway).....so I''ll trust that you''d agree that those who have travelled to watch them away this season haven''t "hindered" the team too much?!

I''m not saying you can''t win games with timid support I''m saying you stand a better chance of winning them with passionate vociferous supporters who spur the team on[/quote]

You are either on a rather pathetic wind up or currently on a mission to locate a second brain cell which will enable you to qualify as a plant. How exactly do you identify the "passionate, vociferous supporters"? Hold auditions or do they wear badges declaring what they are? I suggest you retreat quickly to your very own cloud cuckoo land.

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Hold auditions or do they wear badges declaring what they are? I suggest you retreat quickly to your very own cloud cuckoo land.

FFS, read all of my post pal.

Of course there is no way of identifying real supporters but by opening up all away games on a first come first served basis you guarantee a larger proportion of them at games which would undoubtedly help the vocal support and subsequently the points tally at the end of the season.

That''s why in FA Cup ties where away clubs get 20 or 25% of the capacity guaranteed there''s a far better atmosphere. It''s because the ''points mean prizes'' brigade can''t swallow up all of the away allocation and you get a good cross section of fans and some noise.

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well , you could also look at it like this.....its generally regarded that the the home atmosphere is quiet, and not as good as that which happens away.....so by opening up more tickets to less frequent travellers, you''re giving more tickets to those who don''t create the noise at home matches??

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I have over 2200 points and got down to the carra an hour before the ticket office opened. Clearly if Tilly was taut keen to go to the match he would have got out of his bed earlier.

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I''m in the same boat as you Tilly. Over 2000 points. This and many other seasons. Did you have trouble getting tickets for Munich,Milan,,Arnhem etc? And I think we do make a bit of noise at these games. In my experience I''ts often these so called "passionate,vociferous supporters" who are the first to drop off the radar when we''re not doing so well.

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[quote user="Hector Prune "]I have over 2200 points and got down to the carra an hour before the ticket office opened. Clearly if Tilly was taut keen to go to the match he would have got out of his bed earlier.[/quote]

Why did you do that when the website clearly indicated that 1400 was enough for sunday 3rd before dropping to 1350 for today ?

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[quote user="Mind the gap"]I''m in the same boat as you Tilly. Over 2000 points. This and many other seasons. Did you have trouble getting tickets for Munich,Milan,,Arnhem etc? And I think we do make a bit of noise at these games. In my experience I''ts often these so called "passionate,vociferous supporters" who are the first to drop off the radar when we''re not doing so well.[/quote]

Went to all 3 European games Gap old mate and not a problem with tickets even for the small dump of a ground that was Arnhem.

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[quote user="Mind the gap"]I''m in the same boat as you Tilly. Over 2000 points. This and many other seasons. Did you have trouble getting tickets for Munich,Milan,,Arnhem etc? And I think we do make a bit of noise at these games. In my experience I''ts often these so called "passionate,vociferous supporters" who are the first to drop off the radar when we''re not doing so well.[/quote]

Went to all 3 European games Gap old mate and not a problem with tickets even for the small dump of a ground that was Arnhem.

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Tilly at the best of times our clubs web site is a bit ropey I didn''t want to take the chance of it going down.

Stood for best part of 2 hours in the rain but got a ticket. Will do the same if we get to Wembley.

Lesson is if you can get down to the carra that is the best bet having the paper in your hands straight away

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[quote user="ruthers1"]Hold auditions or do they wear badges declaring what they are? I suggest you retreat quickly to your very own cloud cuckoo land.

FFS, read all of my post pal.

Of course there is no way of identifying real supporters but by opening up all away games on a first come first served basis you guarantee a larger proportion of them at games which would undoubtedly help the vocal support and subsequently the points tally at the end of the season.

That''s why in FA Cup ties where away clubs get 20 or 25% of the capacity guaranteed there''s a far better atmosphere. It''s because the ''points mean prizes'' brigade can''t swallow up all of the away allocation and you get a good cross section of fans and some noise.[/quote]

You really are living in your very own dream world with an extremely strange view of "real supporters". Opening up away games on a first come first served basis? What a brilliant idea! I received a ''phone call two days ago from someone asking how they could get a ticket for the semi-final. Number of games attended this season ? None. Last game attended? Liverpool. Perhaps you could explain how dishing out tickets to people like this would help the vocal support. How much vociferous passion would this generate? You belittle the committed, passionate supporters by labelling them as the "points mean prizes brigade". If I have bitten and you are indeed a troll, very well done. Failing that, I can only come to the conclusion that you are mentally deranged.

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[quote user="ruthers1"]Hold auditions or do they wear badges declaring what they are? I suggest you retreat quickly to your very own cloud cuckoo land.

FFS, read all of my post pal.

Of course there is no way of identifying real supporters but by opening up all away games on a first come first served basis you guarantee a larger proportion of them at games which would undoubtedly help the vocal support and subsequently the points tally at the end of the season.

That''s why in FA Cup ties where away clubs get 20 or 25% of the capacity guaranteed there''s a far better atmosphere. It''s because the ''points mean prizes'' brigade can''t swallow up all of the away allocation and you get a good cross section of fans and some noise.[/quote]

Sorry Ruthers the tickets have been on sale to All supporters for all bar about 4games this season so these mythical people could all have attended. In my humble opinion the best atmosphere this season was at Bournemouth which was probably the most difficult to get tickets for.

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[quote user="Year of the tiger"][quote user="ruthers1"]Hold auditions or do they wear badges declaring what they are? I suggest you retreat quickly to your very own cloud cuckoo land.

FFS, read all of my post pal.

Of course there is no way of identifying real supporters but by opening up all away games on a first come first served basis you guarantee a larger proportion of them at games which would undoubtedly help the vocal support and subsequently the points tally at the end of the season.

That''s why in FA Cup ties where away clubs get 20 or 25% of the capacity guaranteed there''s a far better atmosphere. It''s because the ''points mean prizes'' brigade can''t swallow up all of the away allocation and you get a good cross section of fans and some noise.[/quote]

Sorry Ruthers the tickets have been on sale to All supporters for all bar about 4games this season so these mythical people could all have attended. In my humble opinion the best atmosphere this season was at Bournemouth which was probably the most difficult to get tickets for.[/quote]

But the "real supporters" are only interested in going to the big, once in a lifetime games. Other than that, they are not bothered. However, I bet they have oodles of dormant, vociferous passion waiting to be unleashed !

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Mind the gap"]I''m in the same boat as you Tilly. Over 2000 points. This and many other seasons. Did you have trouble getting tickets for Munich,Milan,,Arnhem etc? And I think we do make a bit of noise at these games. In my experience I''ts often these so called "passionate,vociferous supporters" who are the first to drop off the radar when we''re not doing so well.[/quote]

Went to all 3 European games Gap old mate and not a problem with tickets even for the small dump of a ground that was Arnhem.

[/quote]

Exactly my point,Till. And loads of other big games down the years. No probs. Until yesterday''s circus. Still can''t believe it.

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[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="Mind the gap"]I''m in the same boat as you Tilly. Over 2000 points. This and many other seasons. Did you have trouble getting tickets for Munich,Milan,,Arnhem etc? And I think we do make a bit of noise at these games. In my experience I''ts often these so called "passionate,vociferous supporters" who are the first to drop off the radar when we''re not doing so well.[/quote]

Went to all 3 European games Gap old mate and not a problem with tickets even for the small dump of a ground that was Arnhem.

[/quote]

Any response from DMc yet?

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Sorry Ruthers the tickets have been on sale to All supporters for all bar about 4games this season so these mythical people could all have attended. In my humble opinion the best atmosphere this season was at Bournemouth which was probably the most difficult to get tickets for.

Arghh! You''re still missing the point. I''m not saying they''re the best supporters of the club or the team as far as devotion or mileage measured across the season is concerned, far from it. I''m saying when they are there they support the team much better on the day.

You''re right about the fantastic atmosphere at Bournemouth, but playing the league leaders and beating them with 10 men in Neil''s first game in charge just might have had something to do with it!!

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The system is fair and it works (save i think for non season ticket but regular away travellers) but the problem here is that they have clearly set the threshold too low. I suspect they''ve applied the same points threshold as earlier in the season but have not factored in that there have been 22 more away games since then so there are no doubt a lot more fans with over 1400 points. 1400 points actually only equates to 8 away games over the last two seasons because for this season the points total includes points from last season.

If you operate a system like this then it is fundamentally unfair for it to be wrongly applied for the biggest game of the season and indeed possibly the only game other than the scum league game where its actually been needed. If should have been so simple. Work out the lowest points tally for the top 2000 fans on the database (or as close to 2000 as you can get before jumping down to the next 50 points) and that''s the first threshold.

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[quote user="ruthers1"]Sorry Ruthers the tickets have been on sale to All supporters for all bar about 4games this season so these mythical people could all have attended. In my humble opinion the best atmosphere this season was at Bournemouth which was probably the most difficult to get tickets for.

Arghh! You''re still missing the point. I''m not saying they''re the best supporters of the club or the team as far as devotion or mileage measured across the season is concerned, far from it. I''m saying when they are there they support the team much better on the day.

You''re right about the fantastic atmosphere at Bournemouth, but playing the league leaders and beating them with 10 men in Neil''s first game in charge just might have had something to do with it!![/quote]

Who the hell are these mythical supporters you keep talking about? I suggest they are figments of your imagination occupying your very strange dream world.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]The system is fair and it works (save i think for non season ticket but regular away travellers) but the problem here is that they have clearly set the threshold too low. I suspect they''ve applied the same points threshold as earlier in the season but have not factored in that there have been 22 more away games since then so there are no doubt a lot more fans with over 1400 points. 1400 points actually only equates to 8 away games over the last two seasons because for this season the points total includes points from last season.

If you operate a system like this then it is fundamentally unfair for it to be wrongly applied for the biggest game of the season and indeed possibly the only game other than the scum league game where its actually been needed. If should have been so simple. Work out the lowest points tally for the top 2000 fans on the database (or as close to 2000 as you can get before jumping down to the next 50 points) and that''s the first threshold.[/quote]

Absolutely right, of course. It''s not exactly rocket science but just good old common sense. Is that something we are abundantly blessed with at C R ?

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The system has worked fine all season but its seriously flawed. The 1000 points starting point for season ticket holders is far too high. This wouldn''t have been a problem if we''d played Middlesboro but has become a huge issue because the game is just 40 odd miles up the road.

Now that regular fans have missed out this anomoly may get resolved but that will be of no consolation to them right now while the understandable feeling of injustice is still very raw.

37,000 tickets for Wembley should we get there will be awesome.But will cause the club even more problems if many of the extra 15/20,000 suddenly get the bug as happened after the playoff final in 2002. I expect to see ground expansion back on the agenda in those circumstances.

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The reason our away support can be a bit timid is because the only people with enough time on there hands(and funding) to go to every away match are retired oldies , Last time i got on a club canary coach i thought i''d got on a lochs and glenns by mistake !

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[quote user="Highland Canary"]The system has worked well since its introduction but the threshold was simply too low. It avoids all the nonsense around registering 10 stubs in the ticket office. Pleased that we queued for a couple of hours Sunday morning given our points total was nearly twice the threshold. Think the club should ignore season tickets and priority membership in determining points and just focus on away matches attended (with additional credit for the Hughton years!)[/quote]

this goes to the heart of the season ticket v away supporter debate - a season ticket holder is more valuable to the club than a person who attends say 10 away games but contributes no revenue to the club for home games. The reality is the away games points use is to differentiate home season ticket holders loyalty. ST''s with a limited number of away games should have priority over fans who have been to lots of away games but not home.

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No system is perfect. I get the 1000 point boost of season ticket holder too. Maybe casuals should also get points for home games as well upto a threshold (but I suspect most will be priority members anyway and accrue 500 points that way). Tbh it seems the issue was simply one of a threshold set too low in this case.

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The simplest answer would have been to make tickets only available to personal callers at the ticket office. One ticket per person (no collecting on behalf of others) and bring your stubs along - the notion of only counting those bought off the club is laughable, at many away games you can pay on the gate which gets you no credit with this system.

Still funny that the copper/pub landlord didn''t''t get tickets for him and the old gimmers.

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