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Warburton & NCFC Mirror report

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What do owners want, hard to believe that the owners would even dream of changing managers after he has taken them way beyond their wildest dream.

Quote from todays Daily Mirror:

Brentford could make an announcement over Mark Warburton''s future as soon as today after clear-the-air talks with owner Matthew Benham failed to defuse tensions on Monday.

Warburton and technical director Frank McParland met with senior Griffin Park figures on Monday in a bid to clarify their futures at the club after a week of uncertainty in west London.

But both are now expected to depart the club with only exit terms left to be negotiated.

Sources have indicated that Warburton''s flirtation with the Norwich job helped contribute to rising tensions, as well as a reluctance from McParland to spend big in January, preferring to stay loyal to the squad that had taken Brentford to the top of the Championship.

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[quote user="Bradwell canary"]What do owners want, hard to believe that the owners would even dream of changing managers after he has taken them way beyond their wildest dream.

Quote from todays Daily Mirror:

Brentford could make an announcement over Mark Warburton''s future as soon as today after clear-the-air talks with owner Matthew Benham failed to defuse tensions on Monday.

Warburton and technical director Frank McParland met with senior Griffin Park figures on Monday in a bid to clarify their futures at the club after a week of uncertainty in west London.

But both are now expected to depart the club with only exit terms left to be negotiated.

Sources have indicated that Warburton''s flirtation with the Norwich job helped contribute to rising tensions, as well as a reluctance from McParland to spend big in January, preferring to stay loyal to the squad that had taken Brentford to the top of the Championship.[/quote]

Would have liked Warburton to come here. Wonder if he was the number one target?

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[quote user="lincoln canary"][quote user="Bradwell canary"]What do owners want, hard to believe that the owners would even dream of changing managers after he has taken them way beyond their wildest dream.

Quote from todays Daily Mirror:

Brentford could make an announcement over Mark Warburton''s future as soon as today after clear-the-air talks with owner Matthew Benham failed to defuse tensions on Monday.

Warburton and technical director Frank McParland met with senior Griffin Park figures on Monday in a bid to clarify their futures at the club after a week of uncertainty in west London.

But both are now expected to depart the club with only exit terms left to be negotiated.

Sources have indicated that Warburton''s flirtation with the Norwich job helped contribute to rising tensions, as well as a reluctance from McParland to spend big in January, preferring to stay loyal to the squad that had taken Brentford to the top of the Championship.[/quote]

Would have liked Warburton to come here. Wonder if he was the number one target?[/quote]Given that we watched every Hamilton game this season, and given the speed with which Neil was appointed (it looks as if we approached Hamilton and him almost simultaneously with or even before Adams left) I doubt Warburton was the first choice at that point. I think we had by then seen  enough to convince us to settle on Neil. Whether Warburton was in the running earlier on (say in the summer) is possible, but that there was any talk of this at any time is news to me.

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It just goes to show that having money/power actually means diddly squat if you don''t know how to use it.    They have in one fell swoop undermined all the good work done over the last two seasons to get them on the brink of  promotion to the richest league in the word.  Now dropped out of the top six and it will be a miracle if they regain momentum now imo.  Its a bit like driving at dusk and everyone has their lights on except the large 4X4 BMW............  A great car with a kn*b behind the wheel is far worse than the person who can only just afford a fifteen year old car and who drives it carefully.  (My car is seven years old, before you jump to conclusions [;)] ) .

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[quote user="lake district canary"]It just goes to show that having money/power actually means diddly squat if you don''t know how to use it.    They have in one fell swoop undermined all the good work done over the last two seasons to get them on the brink of  promotion to the richest league in the word.  Now dropped out of the top six and it will be a miracle if they regain momentum now imo.  Its a bit like driving at dusk and everyone has their lights on except the large 4X4 BMW............  A great car with a kn*b behind the wheel is far worse than the person who can only just afford a fifteen year old car and who drives it carefully.  (My car is seven years old, before you jump to conclusions [;)] ) .[/quote]Er, do you know anything about Brentford and its owner Matthew Benham LDC?

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[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]Of course he does, you should know that by now.[/quote][:D]Breaking news, it has been announced that Warburton will leave Brentford at the end of the season.

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[quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="lake district canary"]It just goes to show that having money/power actually means diddly squat if you don''t know how to use it.    They have in one fell swoop undermined all the good work done over the last two seasons to get them on the brink of  promotion to the richest league in the word.  Now dropped out of the top six and it will be a miracle if they regain momentum now imo.  Its a bit like driving at dusk and everyone has their lights on except the large 4X4 BMW............  A great car with a kn*b behind the wheel is far worse than the person who can only just afford a fifteen year old car and who drives it carefully.  (My car is seven years old, before you jump to conclusions [;)] ) .[/quote]Er, do you know anything about Brentford and its owner Matthew Benham LDC?[/quote]

Not a great deal. I know that he has pumped millions into Brentford, c £40m.  So what is your point?

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="lake district canary"]It just goes to show that having money/power actually means diddly squat if you don''t know how to use it.    They have in one fell swoop undermined all the good work done over the last two seasons to get them on the brink of  promotion to the richest league in the word.  Now dropped out of the top six and it will be a miracle if they regain momentum now imo.  Its a bit like driving at dusk and everyone has their lights on except the large 4X4 BMW............  A great car with a kn*b behind the wheel is far worse than the person who can only just afford a fifteen year old car and who drives it carefully.  (My car is seven years old, before you jump to conclusions [;)] ) .[/quote]Er, do you know anything about Brentford and its owner Matthew Benham LDC?[/quote]

Not a great deal. I know that he has pumped millions into Brentford, c £40m.  So what is your point? [/quote]Simply that you have done exactly what you didn''t want anyone else to do, jumped to a conclusion.

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[quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="lake district canary"]It just goes to show that having money/power actually means diddly squat if you don''t know how to use it.    They have in one fell swoop undermined all the good work done over the last two seasons to get them on the brink of  promotion to the richest league in the word.  Now dropped out of the top six and it will be a miracle if they regain momentum now imo.  Its a bit like driving at dusk and everyone has their lights on except the large 4X4 BMW............  A great car with a kn*b behind the wheel is far worse than the person who can only just afford a fifteen year old car and who drives it carefully.  (My car is seven years old, before you jump to conclusions [;)] ) .[/quote]Er, do you know anything about Brentford and its owner Matthew Benham LDC?[/quote]Not a great deal. I know that he has pumped millions into Brentford, c £40m.  So what is your point? [/quote]Simply that you have done exactly what you didn''t want anyone else to do, jumped to a conclusion. [/quote]

I''m sorry, but the conclusions are not hard to come by.  In football you mess about with your forward momentum as a club at your peril. They have been doing great, but it is easy to see that this uncertainty, change of manager situation is going to affect their chances this season. You can disagree if you like, but imo that is going to be the case.

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[quote user="lake district canary"] I''m sorry, but the conclusions are not hard to come by.  In football you mess about with your forward momentum as a club at your peril. They have been doing great, but it is easy to see that this uncertainty, change of manager situation is going to affect their chances this season. You can disagree if you like, but imo that is going to be the case. [/quote]It may well be true that their chances this season are being/will be affected, but the conclusion to which you jump is that Matthew Benham doesn''t know what he is doing. On the contrary, his track record should tell you that he almost certainly does know what he''s doing.

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[quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="lake district canary"] I''m sorry, but the conclusions are not hard to come by.  In football you mess about with your forward momentum as a club at your peril. They have been doing great, but it is easy to see that this uncertainty, change of manager situation is going to affect their chances this season. You can disagree if you like, but imo that is going to be the case. [/quote]It may well be true that their chances this season are being/will be affected, but the conclusion to which you jump is that Matthew Benham doesn''t know what he is doing. On the contrary, his track record should tell you that he almost certainly does know what he''s doing.[/quote]

Track record is one thing, but no one is fool proof.   He may have miscalculated this time, who knows?  It certainly looks like he may have done. We shall see.

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[quote user="lake district canary"] Track record is one thing, but no one is fool proof.   He may have miscalculated this time, who knows?  It certainly looks like he may have done. We shall see. [/quote]"Might have miscalculated this time" is a long way from "money/power but doesn''t have a clue". By the way, there''s an update now on the BBC Football web site.

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[quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="lake district canary"] Track record is one thing, but no one is fool proof.   He may have miscalculated this time, who knows?  It certainly looks like he may have done. We shall see. [/quote]"Might have miscalculated this time" is a long way from "money/power but doesn''t have a clue". By the way, there''s an update now on the BBC Football web site.[/quote]

If ultimately he has cost his club promotion through this, my quote could be quite accurate.  Harsh, maybe, but accurate.  In football, only a fool messes about with a successful formula.  In this case it would be a rich fool.  He may be a genius and this is part of some plan, but to most onlookers it just looks foolish.

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[quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="lake district canary"] I''m sorry, but the conclusions are not hard to come by.  In football you mess about with your forward momentum as a club at your peril. They have been doing great, but it is easy to see that this uncertainty, change of manager situation is going to affect their chances this season. You can disagree if you like, but imo that is going to be the case. [/quote]It may well be true that their chances this season are being/will be affected, but the conclusion to which you jump is that Matthew Benham doesn''t know what he is doing. On the contrary, his track record should tell you that he almost certainly does know what he''s doing.[/quote]

And there was a time when everyone thought that Lambert knew what he was doing

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[quote user="Webbo118"]

And there was a time when everyone thought that Lambert knew what he was doing[/quote]Whose track record is the strongest, Matthew Benham''s or Mark Warburton''s? Which of the two can most plausibly be compared to Paul Lambert in his time at City? Who spotted the potential in Mark Warburton in the first place?

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[quote user="lake district canary"]It just goes to show that having money/power actually means diddly squat if you don''t know how to use it.    They have in one fell swoop undermined all the good work done over the last two seasons to get them on the brink of  promotion to the richest league in the word.  Now dropped out of the top six and it will be a miracle if they regain momentum now imo.  Its a bit like driving at dusk and everyone has their lights on except the large 4X4 BMW............  A great car with a kn*b behind the wheel is far worse than the person who can only just afford a fifteen year old car and who drives it carefully.  (My car is seven years old, before you jump to conclusions [;)] ) .

[/quote]People were saying things very similar to this when Southampton got rid of Nigel Adkins. I bet they''re ruing the day they made such a foolish decision.....

... Or, just maybe the decision should be judged once the full extent of it is known.

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[quote user="Lessingham Canary"]Its crackers, just crackers ![/quote]What is crackers about refusing to let a slim chance of immediate short-term gain de-rail an obviously successful, longer-term plan to position Brentford as a club well-placed to establish itself in the PL? People seem to think that promotion to the PL at any time must be a good thing for any club; there is plenty of evidence to the contrary in the shape of clubs for whom it has ultimately proved a disaster. And by the way, before this broke, most people on here were predicting that Brentford would drop out of the play-off places. Now they are talking as if Benham has cost his club promotion! Warburton is still in charge, Weir is still his assistant, the odds on their winning promotion to the PL this season have not significantly altered.

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[quote user="Webbo118"]Sometimes owners get lucky and sometimes they don''t. Time will tell.[/quote]And in the majority of cases luck has very little to do with it, as opposed to a good brain, sound judgement, knowing what you are doing and an ability to see the wood from the trees (or in cases of "bad" luck, the lack thereof).

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Surely there''s more to this than outsiders can see?

Maybe Brentford''s financial dealer-turned coach has reached the limit of his personal ability. Even so, tampering whilst the team is in a play-off position seems very strange timing! At least Southampton ensured Nigel Adkins had taken them to the promised land before dismissing him...

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[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"]

Surely there''s more to this than outsiders can see?

Maybe Brentford''s financial dealer-turned coach has reached the limit of his personal ability. Even so, tampering whilst the team is in a play-off position seems very strange timing! At least Southampton ensured Nigel Adkins had taken them to the promised land before dismissing him...

[/quote]Very true...But maybe the Brentford hierarchy were not prepared to gamble the transfer money in January that Warburton demanded - which has now rubbed him up the wrong way. Maybe the situation is more that Warburton wants to go, rather than being pushed.There is a lot of unknowns. It''s a very interesting situation. I''m very keen to see how it progresses.

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[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"]

Surely there''s more to this than outsiders can see?

Maybe Brentford''s financial dealer-turned coach has reached the limit of his personal ability. Even so, tampering whilst the team is in a play-off position seems very strange timing! At least Southampton ensured Nigel Adkins had taken them to the promised land before dismissing him...

[/quote]I think that there is something in this line of thinking, though perhaps more so from a perspective that the ''limit'' is regarding his time at Brentford specifically more so than in his career as a manager. From listening to people ''in the game'' (which I must admit is not a concept I am particularly fond of) it appeared quite clear to me, and to Mark Warburton himself, that if Brentford were to be promoted to the PL under Warburton then it had to be this season. Apparently, before starting his career as a manager but after accruing his fortune in the currency markets of The City of London, Mark Warburton travelled outside of the UK and developed his ideas and ''philosophy'' of the game, culminating in the production of a 150-page document. Warburton himself stated that he never changes from this way of playing, which is predominantly a 4-3-3, just with the odd tinkering or changing of specific aspects *.Of course this does not prove that he cannot change from this way of playing. Nevertheless, to me at least, it seems to be the case that Matthew Benham ** sees that a change is necessary in the longer term and that the best approach is to adopt a so-called ''continental'' Head Coach structure. Combined with the apparent short-term window of opportunity for promotion to the PL to be achieved under Warburton, it would make sense for the chairman to seek a change to this longer term strategy. Of course I doubt he wanted this train of thought to be aired in the public via the printed press, but ultimately it is his decision as chairman and owner of the club.

* This may be one of the reasons why MW was not approached by the NCFC hierarchy to become Norwich''s new manager. Of course his Brentford side went on to win 2-1 at Carrow Road a few weeks later...** Coincidentally, for anyone interested in this further, I''ve recently finished reading a great book titled ''The Nowhere Men'', which is about football scouts and the scouting industry. The book was written a few years ago now, and as such at the time of writing Warburton was still Brentford''s Sporting Director; however it provides a really good account of his work ''behind the scenes'' at Brentford (such as establishing the highly successful Next-Gen competition) and a great insight into the vision and workings of Matthew Benham, the Brentford chairman, who appears to strongly favour the ''statistical'' and ''numbers'' side of the game. As a Sporting Director Mark Warburton would be an outstanding appointment for most clubs, though I am of course aware that no vacancy currently exists for this position at NCFC.

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Nothing to do with the QPR job being available then???

Warburton hasn''t resigned or been sacked, he is seeing his contract out with the club and moving on at the end of the season suggesting all is amicable...

He''ll turn up at Loftus Road in June... deals done.. out of interest what odds are bookies offering?

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[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"]

Surely there''s more to this than outsiders can see?

Maybe Brentford''s financial dealer-turned coach has reached the limit of his personal ability. Even so, tampering whilst the team is in a play-off position seems very strange timing! At least Southampton ensured Nigel Adkins had taken them to the promised land before dismissing him...

[/quote]

 

To be honest, I was thinking it was more like the Southampton situation with Pardew, worked wonders with them whilst struggling with their 10 point deduction, started the following season strongly then gone, everyone thought they were crackers then until Adkins did his job...

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One question I have is why people assume that promotion to the

PL is good for any club at any time. For many clubs the pot of gold has

turned out to be a poison

chalice. In our case promotion was unequivocally a good thing because,

irrespective of anything else, it enabled us to

free ourselves of the burden of external debt. You have to look at the

precise situation of each club and recognise that promotion when

ill-prepared for it can be

detrimental to a club in the longer term. It looks to me as if

Benham is totally relaxed about promotion this year; if it happens well

and good, if it doesn''t well and good also. His priority is to keep

moving forward with building a modern club equipped to survive long term

in the top division. A start is due to be made this year on their new,

larger capacity ground at Lionel Road, and the process of implementing

the necessary club infrastructure is on-going. He isn''t alone in viewing

the idea of the traditional British manager as out-dated and as often

as not damaging. The recent interview with the Southampton chairman,

reported widely in the press, gives a good insight into the approach

Benham is obviously seeking to emulate at Brentford.

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[quote user="westcoastcanary"]One question I have is why people assume that promotion to the

PL is good for any club at any time. For many clubs the pot of gold has

turned out to be a poison

chalice. In our case promotion was unequivocally a good thing because,

irrespective of anything else, it enabled us to

free ourselves of the burden of external debt. You have to look at the

precise situation of each club and recognise that promotion when

ill-prepared for it can be

detrimental to a club in the longer term. It looks to me as if

Benham is totally relaxed about promotion this year; if it happens well

and good, if it doesn''t well and good also. His priority is to keep

moving forward with building a modern club equipped to survive long term

in the top division. A start is due to be made this year on their new,

larger capacity ground at Lionel Road, and the process of implementing

the necessary club infrastructure is on-going. He isn''t alone in viewing

the idea of the traditional British manager as out-dated and as often

as not damaging. The recent interview with the Southampton chairman,

reported widely in the press, gives a good insight into the approach

Benham is obviously seeking to emulate at Brentford. [/quote]

Emulating someone else''s success is a laudable ambition - and relaxed or not about promotion  - getting promoted to the top level does give access to an enormous amount of money and if they went in with the attitude that they would not spend too much on players and give it a good go with what they''ve got, then they could take the money and run and it would help finance the future of the club.   I presume Benham''s pockets are not bottomless and he would welcome the extra multi-millions available from a season in the top flight, the raising of the club''s profile, financing the new stadium etc etc.   The hardest part, though, of any club''s progress, is on the field and they have undoubtedly made progress there, so to jeopardize  that by unsettling players with uncertainty about managers and the club''s immediate ambition, is risky to say the least.  He may be the best owner and know exactly what he is doing, but from outside it doesn''t look that way. Finances, club building are one thing - success on the pitch is something else.

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I wonder if their ground is anywhere near up to PL standards. I went there earlier in the season and loved it, proper football ground, but I wonder what the cost would be of improvements. I believe from a friend that there is a new ground being planned but it will be a few years yet.

In a way if they did go up, which is seeming less likely by the minute, it could ruin what they have there. As we have found in the past, the chase is often better than the prize.

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