We need Doherty out a.s.a.p and more in!!

[Derek Sims 0]

 We need more players and get doherty out my bet on players now is we need Jan Kristiansen or some around that area that can play all midfield ! 

[Colonel Cullum 0]

yawn

[Mook 0]

Hmmmmm, interesting point.

Oh no, hang on, it''s not.

[..xx..WoRtHy_In..xx.. 0]

Doherty is rubbish IMO

[Dicky 0]

[quote]Doherty is rubbish IMO[/quote]

Doherty is by far our worst player.  Fact.

[Mook 0]

Prove it, then I''ll believe you.

[Dicky 0]

[quote]Prove it, then I''ll believe you.[/quote]

Like I care?

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote]Prove it, then I''ll believe you.[/quote]

Sorry, were you there yesterday??

I''ve got no problems with the result - Safri and Jarrett will be awesome, Shacks will be back, etc - but Doherty was truly, truly awful yesterday! He could barely face an attack without man-handling the striker to the ground, was beaten for pace every time, and his positioning and awareness were shocking. He made Flem look like John Terry!

Flem can stay, for now, but long-term I''d like to see a back line of Louis-Jean - Colin - Shacks - Drury...

We can loan Doherty out to Southend, or something...

[Trent Canary 0]

Read on the official site that The Doc gave away seven fouls!

[..xx..WoRtHy_In..xx.. 0]

[quote]Prove it, then I''ll believe you.[/quote]

Watch any City match and it''ll be proven.

[Mook 0]

Judge, jury and executioner. What a shame.

In the games I have seen, he certainly has not been our worst player. So that proves that one wrong.

Look - I don''t think he''s John Terry, but I''d like to see a bit of loyalty to one of our own for once. He hasn''t had enough chances to prove himself, but if he''s still as apparently awful as he was yesterday in 2 months time, then yes, it''s time for a change.

Until then, innocent until proven guilty.

[Dicky 0]

[quote]Sorry, were you there yesterday?? I''ve got no problems with the result - Safri and Jarrett will be awesome, Shacks will be back, etc - but Doherty was truly, truly awful yesterday! He could barel...[/quote]

I think a lot of the comments on here are written by people who do not attend games and rely on either the papers, the radio, or quite often jumping onto the Flemmo is the devil, Shacks is god etc themes.

Evil - do you honestly think Southend are that desperate?

[DONT REMEMBER YOUR TENURE AS ENGLAND MANAGER 0]

I think we are being a little harsh on Flem, he wasn''t that bad, The Doc showed us yesterday that he is not a defender, he does not have the mobility to defend and can not install confidence in the other players when he plays there. I do hope that he doesn''t get alot of stick, though I admit he does frustrate me when he plays but I do think he is able to do a job for us in other positions. Shackhall at the tail end of last season was one of our best performers, and has undoubted potential, and Worthy knows this, and I am sure the reasons for Shackhall''s absence yesterday will be fully explained to us, but we all know he is the main man in defence.

I watched the Ireland v Israel game in the summer. The Doc came on with twenty minutes left as an emergency striker, he wsa awesome, created absolute havoc, and Israel are no mugs as their qualifying table shows. As a defender it has to be a resounding no, but as someone who can come on when the game is not going our way, a definite YES. In this league in that position he could be a revelation.

As for the midfied, Worthy had no choice but to play Hughes and Charlton, one of them with Jarret or Safri would work, Safri and Jarett together will rule the midfield against most opposition, I think that is clearly evident. Safri''s fitness is a concern as he does spend more time on the bench then on the pitch but his quality is undoubted, so maybe another midfielder does need to be signed, and I don''t think it would be Sidwell, there is no way we have a spare 2 million.

Watching the games over the weekend there does seem to be even less quality then there was two years ago, and this league really is there for the taking. There is no way that there is 10 to 12 teams who could battle it out for automatic promotion, I would narrow that down to four potential teams, and that includes us.

Not a good game yesterday, but at least we didn''t lose.

Peace and lovin

[..xx..WoRtHy_In..xx.. 0]

[quote]I think a lot of the comments on here are written by people who do not attend games and rely on either the papers, the radio, or quite often jumping onto the Flemmo is the devil, Shacks is god etc the...[/quote]

I go to the games and think he is terrible

[alex_ncfc 644]

[quote]I think a lot of the comments on here are written by people who do not attend games and rely on either the papers, the radio, or quite often jumping onto the Flemmo is the devil, Shacks is god etc the...[/quote]

So because you can get to games, that makes you some sort of ''higher up'' supporter who has the right to slag off some players yet moan when people criticise the ones you think are doing a good job? Yet, just because some people who post on the boards, like me, can''t get to games, does that mean we don''t know anything about our club/players? Means we can''t have an opinion?

It''s all about opinions. On the subject of this thread, i''m of the belief that Doherty deserves more time. Fleming has been here 8 years and is not the future. Cheerio.

[ZLF 271]

Docherty was average on sat no more no less.  Yes he gave away some fouls but a defender who does not conceed is not doing their job - unlike Flem, he at least won some tackles (remember what tackling is flem - watch Shacks and you will see) and won a lot of balls in the air.  Give him some games and a decent partner and he will be like malky inthis league - OK, nothing more nothing less.

He remains ponderous and prone to a lapse in concentration but he at least was defensively solid and not caught ball watching unlike his captain and defensive partner who had another version of his own groundhog day repeating last seasons failing all over again. (Classic fleming in the second half he appeals for offside despite playing the guy on himself, to his credit gets back to block the cross then turns round and gives doc and earful rather than taking the blame for his own error) 

At the end of the day we have not lost and despite playing badly were the only team creating any chances and like every opening game of the season for the last 4 years ended in a draw (the last three after we took the league)

Things can only get better  - cant they?

  

OTBC

[FatMan Fat 0]

Unfortunately Doc is one of those players who look "clumsy" and that doesn''t help him - he seems to lose his balance, struggles to get to the ball and doesn''t get it away cleanly. Consequently he looks uncomfortable. 

Compare him with, say, Kenton - now there was a player who looked "good" on the ball, who had balance, timing, and just looked comfortable. 

The problem isn''t Doc, or Flem, it''s both of them

[Saint Canary 0]

Lets be hones most people on this board having a go at the Doc before he even signed!  I really think that the Doc could be a good partner for Shackell, he is strong and good in the air and when he has played for Ireland he has looked a lot more composed.  It''s worth noting that Tony Adams was despised by Arsenal and England fans for ages, he looked clumsy etc but look at what a great player he turned out to be!

The Doc appears to me to be a confidence player and IMO Worthy has knocked it out of him by dropping him last season even though he was playing much better than Flem.  He basically had to personally take the blame for a very poor TEAM display at Blackburn last year.  I think the guy needs a run in the team and worthy needs to pick a back four and stick to it.  A defence has to be unit and it cannot be that unless they play together regularly.

Please give the Doc a chance before we all cut him down.

 

 

[nobbyg 0]

Surely if you go to a game and watch the whole 90 minutes you are in a better position to comment than not having done so.

As for Fleming not tackling on Saturday, you need to remember he was booked inside the first 15 odd minutes so had to be ultra careful.

As for having a go at Doherty before he got here - I saw his clown like defending for Tottenham especially in the high scoring Leicester game before he joined us.

http://www.premierleague.com/fapl.rac?command=forwardOnly&nextPage=enCompMatchReport&id=2315146

We had all made our opinions on Bentley and Marney before they have joined us on their minimal first team experiences.  Bentleys one goal for the U21''s and one for Arsenal were enough for us to think he was Dennis Begkamp and Marneys two goals against Everton and we think he is the right midfielder we have been waiting for.

But yet we all get slagged for having an pre-opinion on Doherty who had played so much more first team football to give us a more informed opinion.

Bentley and Marney looked quality from the TV we had seen of them...and Doherty looked like he should have big feet, a red nose and a flower that squirts water.

If I put IMO does that make it better?

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote]So because you can get to games, that makes you some sort of ''higher up'' supporter who has the right to slag off some players yet moan when people criticise the ones you think are doing a good job? Ye...[/quote]

Alex, I don''t think Dicky meant that to make those who see every game seem better than those who don''t (I myself am in the latter camp - I''ll be there Saturday, but not tomorrow).

I think his point was that its a little hard for people who didn''t see the game and how certain players performed first hand to turn around and say that those who did are talking nonsense... we''re not saying we''re right, per se, but we''ve just got a better insight from having actually been to the game than those who enjoyed Roy Waller''s "commentary"...

Does any of that make sense? I don''t want people to think I''m being patronising in saying so....

[..xx..WoRtHy_In..xx.. 0]

[quote]So because you can get to games, that makes you some sort of ''higher up'' supporter who has the right to slag off some players yet moan when people criticise the ones you think are doing a good job? Ye...[/quote]

I agree. On the supporter bit not the Doc bit.

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote]Surely if you go to a game and watch the whole 90 minutes you are in a better position to comment than not having done so. As for Fleming not tackling on Saturday, you need to remember he was booked ...[/quote]

Well that''s it then.  We should just show him the door and allow him to leave on a free.  Heaven forbid we should try and coach him and improve him as a player or even let him play and form a partnership with someone.  He''s 24, well past his best because no player has ever improved after that point in their career. 

[Dicky 0]

[quote]Alex, I don''t think Dicky meant that to make those who see every game seem better than those who don''t (I myself am in the latter camp - I''ll be there Saturday, but not tomorrow). I think his point w...[/quote]

Exactly.  If you formed your opinions just on what people say on this site, you would believe that Flemmo is truly awful and that Shacks is the best player ever to have worn a Norwich shirt.

Alex, I DO think I have a better opinion on players than people who do not go to games because I get to see the players in action, end of story.

[Mook 0]

Yes, but if you formed your opinions from your postings (Dicky) then you would assume that Gary Doherty is the worst player ever, and Flem is just suffering from those around him!

As a group of supporters, we have two choices -

support the players, even the ones that are not looking too good, and try to build up their confidence and get them back to firing on all cylinders.

Groan and whinge in frustration at that players every mistake (all our players make them, all game long) and make him even more paranoid that his next touch HAS to be great.

I know which one I would prefer to do, and I hope others think the same. Scaring players will do nothing for our team, even if that player scares us!

[Evil Monkey 52]

[quote]Yes, but if you formed your opinions from your postings (Dicky) then you would assume that Gary Doherty is the worst player ever, and Flem is just suffering from those around him! As a group of suppo...[/quote]

I''m all for supporting players whilst they''re on the pitch, as I''ve said before during the Francis debacle and in my comments about the people who booed at the weekend, but does this mean we''re not allowed to point out their flaws on this board?

I guess I misunderstood what this forum was for??? My mistake...

[ricky knight 0]

exit Holt, enter Doc, new scapegoat.

[StevenageFan 0]

I was at the match and actually think that over the course of 90 minutes Doc was a better defender than Fleming.   Doc was always on his man, whilst Flem is intent on keeping himself spare thus leaving Doc high and dry when an overlap move is created.   Doc made more challenges, yes some clumsy, but at least he makes them and most of the time he won the ball.   He is also better in the air and won a lot in that area.

I think with a decent run he will find his feet and start turning clumsy tackles into decent ones and he is definitely a better partner for Shack than Flem.   Shack will boss him about, but at least he will be marking a man too and you will see a better organised back four.

Don''t get me wrong, I have been slating Fleming recently, but thought he had a decent game on Saturday, but to say Doc was worse than him is not fair by any stretch of the imagination.

[Saint Canary 0]

[quote]Yes, but if you formed your opinions from your postings (Dicky) then you would assume that Gary Doherty is the worst player ever, and Flem is just suffering from those around him! As a group of suppo...[/quote]

Worthy is often accused of having his favourites but it is also true of us fans as well.  Sometimes we refuse to see the negatives in players like Hux and Deano and we are watching players like the Doc for every mistake.  The statistic was given of how many times the Doc gave away a free kick, has anyone counted how many times Hux gave the ball away?

I''m sure though Mook that whatever Dicky''s opinion of the Doc, he has his full support when on the pitch.........

[ZLF 271]

The place to discuss players shortfalls is on sites like these not at the football ground - even I, in dickys eyes the most ardent anti flem suppoprter around, cheered Flem announcement, applauded when he cleared the ball during the game (without irony) and did not groan when he went awol.

However there is no different in championing Flem or docs replacement - both have a view that there is something wrong at the back that worthy has to address. 

Having seen Flem play with all the centre backs at the club, and no other combinations,  Flem was the only ever present last season and played at a consistent level.   I think it is time he was rested and another pair given a go.  A change is as good as a rest as they say and we cant get any worse there can we? 

 

OTBC 

 

 

[Mook 0]

No, I certainly don''t think that Dicky, or anyone else on here, is booing or slating the Doc during the match. What I''m talking about is the anticipation levels differing unfairly for each player.

When Hucks gets the ball, the crowd draws breath, but 8 times out of ten he runs down a blind alley and loses it. But that''s alright, it''s Hucks, and he''s allowed to make mistakes.

When Doc/Rivers/Hendo/Holt/Helveg/Svensson get the ball and don''t do exactly what they wanted, you can hear 90% of the crowd go "see - I told you he was rubbish, here we go again".

Also, when Doc makes a clearance or a tackle, nobody seems to remember it. It''s just the mistakes that are highlighted. 

From what I heard, Drury didn''t have a particularly strong game on Sat, and certainly didn''t have a good season last year with all kinds of goals coming from positions Drury should have covered.

So why is nobody bitching on about Drury? I''m not saying the Doc is world''s greatest player, but I do think he is getting some unfair stick from people who have yet to see the best from him.