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Alex Moss

RvW to return to NCFC end of season

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According to L''equipe anyway...

http://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2015/st-etienne-will-not-activate-rocky-van-wolfswinkel-buy-out-option/

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Poor old Rocky van Bullwinkle!

What now for him? It''s not like Bassong where it was his attitude at question, does RvW have any semblance of a future with us?

I can only see one thing for him, back to Eredivisie.

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Good I''m sure Alex would actually play him correctly and do something that our two previous managers couldn''t.......give him service!!!.

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They were never likely to activate it to be honest, unless he had scored 20 goals and helped St Etienne to qualify for the Champions League. (Which technically could still happen).

At the time people were exclaiming McNally''s skills in getting such a good deal for Ricky - but in reality Norwich lost a striker for the season for the value of not paying his wages (although some in France have suggested that Norwich are still paying a decent percentage of his salary). Will be interesting to see what Alex Neil makes of Ricky in the summer (or if he is allowed to make a judgement without the club just selling him off as quickly as possible).

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RVW was a huge gamble, that turned out to be a spectacular disaster and now sounds like we are stuck with him on the wage bill.

Agree the question can Alex Neil do anything with him ? if he does it will be his greatest achievement, has anyone seen anything in RVW to suggest that AN can turn him into a goal machine ?

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Well if he does come back, two things work in his favour:

1) He doesn''t appear to be a complete twunt. I''d imagine he''d quietly go about his job of trying to get back into our team without too much moaning and rocking the boat.

2) He has a new manager with new ideas that could suit him better. He scored goals at Lisbon and before that and it was clear that inverted wingers was a terrible fit for him. Perhaps Neil would know better how to use him?

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Well if he does come back, two things work in his favour:

1) He doesn''t appear to be a complete twunt. I''d imagine he''d quietly go about his job of trying to get back into our team without too much moaning and rocking the boat.

2) He has a new manager with new ideas that could suit him better. He scored goals at Lisbon and before that and it was clear that inverted wingers was a terrible fit for him. Perhaps Neil would know better how to use him?[/quote]

This ^^You have to ask can he do a job like Grabban does - harrassing and pressing high up the pitch.  In the games I watched where he played last season, he is a hard worker and good at harrassing.  Against Spurs at home, he was a thorn in their side all the time he was on the pitch, albeit further away from the goal than he needed to be - but then that was partly down to the manager''s tactics.   In a high pressing team with him at the front doing what Grabban does  he could be more effective and get more chances to score.  

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]They were never likely to activate it to be honest, unless he had scored 20 goals and helped St Etienne to qualify for the Champions League. (Which technically could still happen).

At the time people were exclaiming McNally''s skills in getting such a good deal for Ricky - but in reality Norwich lost a striker for the season for the value of not paying his wages (although some in France have suggested that Norwich are still paying a decent percentage of his salary). Will be interesting to see what Alex Neil makes of Ricky in the summer (or if he is allowed to make a judgement without the club just selling him off as quickly as possible).[/quote]Bethnal, I think there was a chance that St-Etienne might have wanted to keep van Wolfswinkel even if he didn''t do quite that well, but at nowhere near the quoted £6m/€6m (the EDP and the French press seem to differ on which figure is right). They are just not that rich a club, and, as L''Equipe stresses, it is not their policy to pay high sums for players.Pointing that up, it is interesting that they have no  fewer than four players in on loan this season and (again according to L''Equipe) with Kevin Théophile-Catherine, whom they do want to keep, they are trying to lower what probably looks to Cardiff like a reasonable €2m price tag for him. Of course this could be a bit of public negotiating by St-Etienne to get us to knock the RvW price down even further than we might have been willing to go, but I doubt it. St-Etienne could well lose their one goalscorere, Erdinc, to a Turkish club in the summer, and if so will need a much more reliable replacement than someone who is now relegated to being an unused sub.

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Bearing in mind that even Harry Kane struggled to score in Hughton''s negativity-ridden side, I would keep an open mind on RvW especially as we have nothing to lose by giving him a proper chance in an attacking side.

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I am not unhappy at the prospect of RVW returning. Alex Neil may or may not want to keep him but one thing is sure he will know how to get the best out of him if he does stay.

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[quote user="Lessingham Canary"]RVW was a huge gamble, that turned out to be a spectacular disaster and now sounds like we are stuck with him on the wage bill. Agree the question can Alex Neil do anything with him ? if he does it will be his greatest achievement, has anyone seen anything in RVW to suggest that AN can turn him into a goal machine ?[/quote]

 

AN has more chance of signing Jesus and turning water into wine than turning RVW into a footballer.

& million down the Swanee

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This is an attacking side in The Championship the Premiership will be a completely different ball game.

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[quote user="daly"]This is an attacking side in The Championship the Premiership will be a completely different ball game.[/quote]

You''re making a wild assumption there !!

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It will in the sense we''ll get our inevitable 5-0 pummelings at Anfield and Etihad, but I always wonder how RvW would have done in that Lambert team we went up with. We scored plenty of goals that season. Plenty of strikers have gone up with weak premiership clubs and scored goals. Look at the two at Burnley or Charlie Austin?

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Can''t see him being a Neil type striker- he likes his strikers to hit the channels, hold the ball up and generally play quite physically. The biggest limiting factor for Ricky (apart from his clearly shot confidence) is that he lacks the strength to play in the English leagues. He''s got a lot of good characteristics but I think he''s so much more suited to a league like Spain or Portugal where the game is less physical.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Well if he does come back, two things work in his favour:

1) He doesn''t appear to be a complete twunt. I''d imagine he''d quietly go about his job of trying to get back into our team without too much moaning and rocking the boat.

2) He has a new manager with new ideas that could suit him better. He scored goals at Lisbon and before that and it was clear that inverted wingers was a terrible fit for him. Perhaps Neil would know better how to use him?[/quote]

This ^^You have to ask can he do a job like Grabban does - harrassing and pressing high up the pitch.  In the games I watched where he played last season, he is a hard worker and good at harrassing.  Against Spurs at home, he was a thorn in their side all the time he was on the pitch, albeit further away from the goal than he needed to be - but then that was partly down to the manager''s tactics.   In a high pressing team with him at the front doing what Grabban does  he could be more effective and get more chances to score.  

[/quote]That was the one game I saw him start last season, and he was really very ineffective. Anything but a constant thorn in Spurs'' side. If you had told me beforehand he was a teenage triallist from the Highland League I would have readily believed that.

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Would be really surprised if I ever saw him in a Norwich shirt again. Although I''d love to see him brought back with a new lease of confidence under AN and for him to prove everyone wrong, but it''s just not going to happen is it... agree with others that he will be back off to Portugal, shame how this has all panned out

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One of the most depressing things I have ever seen in football is the slow, unrelenting collapse of RvW last season.

From live wire instinctive striker against Everton, to player hitting no-look passes straight out of play and missing from a few yards by the end of the season.

The more he lost faith in his ability, the more he would run around hoping that he could recover through sheer endeavour.

As said, his attitude does seem okay though (although he did kick off occasionally) and if he did return at least he wouldn''t have the burden of expectation. However, I doubt McNally would want him around reminding fans of previous mistakes and will have him packed off someone at the first chance - even if it means a big loss and subsidising his wages.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Well if he does come back, two things work in his favour:

1) He doesn''t appear to be a complete twunt. I''d imagine he''d quietly go about his job of trying to get back into our team without too much moaning and rocking the boat.

2) He has a new manager with new ideas that could suit him better. He scored goals at Lisbon and before that and it was clear that inverted wingers was a terrible fit for him. Perhaps Neil would know better how to use him?[/quote]This ^^You have to ask can he do a job like Grabban does - harrassing and pressing high up the pitch.  In the games I watched where he played last season, he is a hard worker and good at harrassing.  Against Spurs at home, he was a thorn in their side all the time he was on the pitch, albeit further away from the goal than he needed to be - but then that was partly down to the manager''s tactics.   In a high pressing team with him at the front doing what Grabban does  he could be more effective and get more chances to score.   [/quote]That was the one game I saw him start last season, and he was really very ineffective. Anything but a constant thorn in Spurs'' side. If you had told me beforehand he was a teenage triallist from the Highland League I would have readily believed that.[/quote]

Its surprising how people see things differently.  I thought he played as well as he could and gave his all in that match - and he was given a standing ovation as he was susbstituted in recognition of the effort he had put in - one such effort leading directly to the goal that won us that game.    He had some bad games, he undoubtedly struggled in the system and lost some confidence - but the main requisite of an AN team appears to be effort, hard work and giving your all.  On the evidence I saw last season,  at his best he did ok on that level. 

Also, lets not forget Johnson looked poor last in relation to this season, Wes wasn''t great, Hooper wasn''t that good, the defenders struggled, Howson never looked that great, Fer etc etc..............     RVW was part of a struggling set up.  If he comes back he will be part of a successful set up - and we would see the best of him, rather than the worst.  

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]That was the one game I saw him start last season, and he was really very ineffective. Anything but a constant thorn in Spurs'' side. If you had told me beforehand he was a teenage triallist from the Highland League I would have readily believed that.[/quote]Eh? You watched a different game to me. I remember him pressing and winning the ball which directly led to our goal. He had an ok game, one of his best performances all season.

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If we go up, we can afford to take a big hit and offload him for whatever anyone wants to pay. If we stay in the Championship, he will have to stay and fight for his place unless an Eredivisie club can rustle up a decent figure for him. Even though his wages are huge, if Neil can get him playing again he could be part of a lethal strike force that would propel us to the top two next season - Jerome, Grabban, Hooper and RvW have enough talent to walk this league, and with AN having the chance to freshen up the squad over the summer I fully expect us to take the title next season if we don''t make it this year.

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Part of me would love a return to glory for him with us.

Practically though it''s not sensible for AN to give him a try. Close the door, sign a new face up front to inspire the squad, will the lads really want memories of last season with Ricky? Need to move forward.

Only worry is if DM wants a return on investment and ask AN to use him next season.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Well if he does come back, two things work in his favour:

1) He doesn''t appear to be a complete twunt. I''d imagine he''d quietly go about his job of trying to get back into our team without too much moaning and rocking the boat.

2) He has a new manager with new ideas that could suit him better. He scored goals at Lisbon and before that and it was clear that inverted wingers was a terrible fit for him. Perhaps Neil would know better how to use him?[/quote]This ^^You have to ask can he do a job like Grabban does - harrassing and pressing high up the pitch.  In the games I watched where he played last season, he is a hard worker and good at harrassing.  Against Spurs at home, he was a thorn in their side all the time he was on the pitch, albeit further away from the goal than he needed to be - but then that was partly down to the manager''s tactics.   In a high pressing team with him at the front doing what Grabban does  he could be more effective and get more chances to score.   [/quote]That was the one game I saw him start last season, and he was really very ineffective. Anything but a constant thorn in Spurs'' side. If you had told me beforehand he was a teenage triallist from the Highland League I would have readily believed that.[/quote]Its surprising how people see things differently.  I thought he played as well as he could and gave his all in that match - and he was given a standing ovation as he was susbstituted in recognition of the effort he had put in - one such effort leading directly to the goal that won us that game.    He had some bad games, he undoubtedly struggled in the system and lost some confidence - but the main requisite of an AN team appears to be effort, hard work and giving your all.  On the evidence I saw last season,  at his best he did ok on that level. 

Also, lets not forget Johnson looked poor last in relation to this season, Wes wasn''t great, Hooper wasn''t that good, the defenders struggled, Howson never looked that great, Fer etc etc..............     RVW was part of a struggling set up.  If he comes back he will be part of a successful set up - and we would see the best of him, rather than the worst.  

[/quote]Oh, ldc, I didn''t say he didn''t try! I think he did, but not very effectively. And most of the time in that Spurs game what I saw was the ball being played up to him and bouncing away. It is true he won a tackle on the right touch line and then played a simple pass inside. But it was the through-ball from Johnson (I think ) to Snodgrass that made the goal.I am afraid, based on what little I saw of RvW, the idea he could play alone up front as Grabban does, is a fantasy. His ball control just isn''t very good, he lacks pace, and he has no physical presence to unnerve defenders. It is not necessarily a question of size. Dickov, Speedie and Fleck, for example, were all small but had a mental aggression allied to a certain physical power that made them sods to defend against. RvW just doesn''t have any of that.The one role where he might succeed, at least at Championship level, is playing off a target man (to do all the heavy-lifting for him) in a 4-4-2, but that system is out of fashion at the moment.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Well if he does come back, two things work in his favour:

1) He doesn''t appear to be a complete twunt. I''d imagine he''d quietly go about his job of trying to get back into our team without too much moaning and rocking the boat.

2) He has a new manager with new ideas that could suit him better. He scored goals at Lisbon and before that and it was clear that inverted wingers was a terrible fit for him. Perhaps Neil would know better how to use him?[/quote]This ^^You have to ask can he do a job like Grabban does - harrassing and pressing high up the pitch.  In the games I watched where he played last season, he is a hard worker and good at harrassing.  Against Spurs at home, he was a thorn in their side all the time he was on the pitch, albeit further away from the goal than he needed to be - but then that was partly down to the manager''s tactics.   In a high pressing team with him at the front doing what Grabban does  he could be more effective and get more chances to score.   [/quote]That was the one game I saw him start last season, and he was really very ineffective. Anything but a constant thorn in Spurs'' side. If you had told me beforehand he was a teenage triallist from the Highland League I would have readily believed that.[/quote]Its surprising how people see things differently.  I thought he played as well as he could and gave his all in that match - and he was given a standing ovation as he was susbstituted in recognition of the effort he had put in - one such effort leading directly to the goal that won us that game.    He had some bad games, he undoubtedly struggled in the system and lost some confidence - but the main requisite of an AN team appears to be effort, hard work and giving your all.  On the evidence I saw last season,  at his best he did ok on that level.  Also, lets not forget Johnson looked poor last in relation to this season, Wes wasn''t great, Hooper wasn''t that good, the defenders struggled, Howson never looked that great, Fer etc etc..............     RVW was part of a struggling set up.  If he comes back he will be part of a successful set up - and we would see the best of him, rather than the worst.   [/quote]Oh, ldc, I didn''t say he didn''t try! I think he did, but not very effectively. And most of the time in that Spurs game what I saw was the ball being played up to him and bouncing away. It is true he won a tackle on the right touch line and then played a simple pass inside. But it was the through-ball from Johnson (I think ) to Snodgrass that made the goal.I am afraid, based on what little I saw of RvW, the idea he could play alone up front as Grabban does, is a fantasy. His ball control just isn''t very good, he lacks pace, and he has no physical presence to unnerve defenders. It is not necessarily a question of size. Dickov, Speedie and Fleck, for example, were all small but had a mental aggression allied to a certain physical power that made them sods to defend against. RvW just doesn''t have any of that.The one role where he might succeed, at least at Championship level, is playing off a target man (to do all the heavy-lifting for him) in a 4-4-2, but that system is out of fashion at the moment.[/quote]I think its really hard to tell from what we saw last season from him.   The one thing we can all be sure about is that the team struggled - and when teams struggle, the strikers are going score less, the team is going to let more goals in and everyone''s confidence suffers.

I made this argument last season - if RVW could do well in Portugal for Sporting Lisbon but can''t do well in at Norwich, it suggests that the Portugese league is well below premiership standard - and if he is not deemed fit for championship standard - Portugese top league must be below that standard as well.    So that puts RVW on a par with league one players in this country like............Cody Macdonald - a good technical striker of the ball, but lacking enough presence to make it at a higher level.   If that is the case, RVW would do best going to a League 1 team.  

However, I would prefer to think that his time at Sporting Lisbon is a truer reflection of his ability and that the Portugese league is at least as good as the Championship...........

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I don''t think the team we have is good enough to accomodate the Wolf if we got to the Premier League. We''re still trying to recover from the Hughton and Adams horror show, so forget about fielding a fancy type of player. If we go up then next season will be more of a battle than a display of fine football.

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Have to agree...much as I''d like RvW to be given a chance I think we need to cut our losses and move on. Anything in the region of £3 million and we should ship him out.

 

Apples 

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