50 years a Supporter

He is a human being and he has to face failure for probably the first time in his life. He threw his heart and soul into it and came up short. We are human beings too - of course we feel empathy. No one likes to see a trier get knocked down and have to admit to themselves that they just weren''t up to it. He is, however, being well compensated and will probably never have to work again if he invests his pay off prudently - unlike lots of us who have been made redundant at some stage(s) in their working life. I know it''s a cliché but the experience may well make him a better man and/or manager in the long run, To feel the highs you have to know the lows., and at least he and we have happy memories together. It''s better for both parties to move on - something that was blatantly obvious to all bar a handful of sane Norfolk people for many weeks now. I''m sure both parties stand a better change of seeing the highs again travelling separate paths......

What''s insane, or at least surreal, is trying to cheer a club on to promotion when they clearly don''t want it! Perhaps they should provide the facility to cheer a black balance sheet instead. That seems to be want they want supporters to feel good about. To answer an earlier question as to my credibility, I remember watching Bill Punton charge down the left wing and the crowd cheering in unity behind him, I remember Ron Davies leaping like a salmon over defences, Albert Bennett and his off colour boots, Graham Paddon and his curling free kicks and throw ins like corners, and Trevor Hockey with his unquestionable commitment and his crunching tackles (couldn''t we do with his ilk now) . I wonder how many of today''s crop will be remembered with such affection in years to come? Perhaps it is an age thing.....

Maybe it is my age, and maybe I was too naive when I was younger, but I honestly don''t remember ever believing before that the aim of the board, the players, and the manager was to simply maintain the status quo - no more, no less. I heard the story in the Chase era that when Dave Stringer asked for another striker so that he could win the league he was told that the board didn''t care where he finished as long as he didn''t get relegated, and I guess that comes close. At least then, however, the players and the managerial team had the ambition and the fire in their bellies that inspired us to get behind them. In later eras I''ve seen Darren Eadie play his heart out week after week in an otherwise mediocre team (Roeder/Grant time?) and Huckerby and Crouch bandage Worthy''s deteriorating ability to motivate. In a nutshell, there has always been something to cheer (or so I thought). I always had the belief that at least some of the club had the passion and the pride to want to do the badge justice. Even Craig Bellamy, self centred though he was, gave his all - and in the Saunders era there was no doubt that the entire team did. Now I see a manager who just isn''t up to it, a board that doesn''t really mind, and most of the players going through the motions without any obvious drive. Where''s the team? What is there to support? If they don''t want to win every game enough to be able to convince us that anything other than victory will hurt them, why should we blindly cheer them? Why not just support them in their goal to win just enough to survive, but not too many to risk having to stretch themselves? Surely that''s what a true fan would do? Surely a true fan would not super-impose their own ambitions onto a body that clearly doesn''t want to embrace them - that would be pulling in a different direction?

Rather than a monosyllabic insult, perhaps someone who disagrees could dissect the logic behind my post and offer a reasoned argument as to why, if I am to support the club in their aims, I shouldn''t sometimes cheer the opposition? Only doing my duty as a supporter ....... shouldn''t be insulted for that.

I don''t see the relevance of the last question. What I do see is a conundrum based around what is the club and, following that, how we can do our duty as supporters? The board clearly don''t want to win too often, and most the players have to strike a nice balance between achieving some win bonuses whilst making sure they don''t get too many as they know most of them know that they will be out of a job the year after if we should go up a division, What''s left of the club if you take out the board and the players? How should we support them? If they don''t want to win every game, then surely they must want us to cheer the opposition on some occasions?

If all the board are happy that AN is doing the job adequately (which they must be as he is still in place) it must follow that they don''t want to win too often as, if they do, promotion may become a real possibility. How then do we support the club to achieve their ambition? What games do we cheer them on, and what games would they rather we cheer the opposition? Perhaps the board or the manager could let us know in the pre-match press conference? Maybe too they could let us in at a reduced price for the games they''d rather not win. I expect good old Seb will feature in them (just in case we do somehow manage to fluke a lead)? Seriously - if the aim is not to win too often, how can we be expected to support?

Doesn''t seem tome to matter who you''ll get in to "help". AN''s biggest failure is that he doesn''t listen to anyone, arrogantly believing against all evidence that his "Plan A at all times" is the only way to play

That interview says it all I remember a similar one he did just before Hughton finally went........ Desperate that they had to push him out - both on the pitch at 3pm and for the interview after. Hopefully he was the only one that wasn''t more than mildly upset.

Stupid though it may be, this is the first time since the days of Tommy Bryceland and Gordon Boland that I have really thought that two of the three critical factors (i.e. the players - or at least the majority of them - and the board) really lack the passion or the heart to "go for it" with everything they reasonably have. They seem content with the half hearted - i.e. mid table mediocrity, minimum debt, and a steady (if unchallenging) future. We have had a clear lack of talent before (in all three areas) but never, to my recollection, such a blatant lack of the desire to win.Of course I''ll still follow their fortunes but, as with children when they become adults, you can''t impose your values and aspirations onto them - you have to accept that they will make their own decisions, many of which you wouldn''t have made in their place, for values that they hold dear but which you don''t necessarily agree with. Maybe it has been like this before, and I just haven''t seen it? Maybe it is me that has changed? Either way I can''t find it in me any more to invest emotion and aspiration into individuals that don''t seem to share my passion or goals (no pun intended), nor do I think they are worthy of it. I am hoping things change and "we" at least start to try again but, until then, I''ll stand back, paint landscapes and build model Spitfires.

[quote user="50 years a Supporter"]Not lying exactly, but perhaps "wish" would be a more appropriate word than "goal"  ...... let''s put it this way, if it really is my "goal" to win the lottery I''d do more than buy one line a week.[/quote]Bor BorSorry, I didn''t answer you''re question. My view doesn''t matter - which was the point of my original post - as I have absolutely no influence on events. I do, however, invest time and emotion, and find the current state of affairs so depressing that I question my sanity in continuing to do so. If the board don''t care, and the players don''t care ... why should I?Ideally I''d like a clear out of the dead wood, and the mercenaries, and the time servers but that''s as likely as Turkey''s voting for Christmas, so what choices do I have left?

Not lying exactly, but perhaps "wish" would be a more appropriate word than "goal"  ...... let''s put it this way, if it really is my "goal" to win the lottery I''d do more than buy one line a week.

You don''t have to be rich to be successful (although it does make it easier) but you do need a passion and a desire to improve your lot - and I don''t see any of that in our board or the majority of our players. They are comfortable enough where they are, and any movement (up or down) is a threat to that status quo...

Could be right there djc ................... need to find something that has ambitions for itself and gives something back .... any suggestions? P.S. Even in the "good old day''s" the sun didn''t shine as brightly as it could. I remember tale of David Stringer saying to Robert Chase "buy me a top class striker and I''ll win you the league" to which the Chairman replied "I don''t want you to win the league. All you''ve got to do is stay in the division." It went downhill from that point for that dynasty too. You''d have thought then that someone at the club would have learnt something ......

I know most of this has been said before and I apologise in advance for upsetting people by starting a new thread to say it all again, but I woke up this morning with a sudden realisation that is crystal clear in it''s simplicity.The fans care - obviously - but who else at the club does? The board - no - as long as they are debt free and can keep selling season tickets to those optimistic enough to think that we might just stumble on a winning streak, their objective is met. The players - no - as long as they draw their £X,000 a week wages why should they care? Indeed most could argue a case for not getting promotion as it would invariably mean that they would be looking for another club as soon as their contracts expire as they are blatantly not good enough to hold their own in the PL.  Neil Adams - yes, I am sure he does, but he is in a small majority ambition wise and does not yet have the skill or the attributes to manage or motivate adults to do more than the minimum they can possibly get away with.Why then should I waste my energy and emotion in hoping for a promotion push? Why not just accept that the word "ambition" has been banned from "little ol'' Norricdge" and adopt the "if you can''t beat them join them" philosophy and accept that there''s a football game at Carrow Road every other week or so if I want to invest the time or money (or both)  to follow overpaid entertainers milk their audience. It''s the same attitude with which my wife approaches each episode of East Enders - where she can just smile, complain how ridiculous it is, and then forget it until the next one? If I want a hobby where creativity and achieving something is possible, perhaps I should look to painting, or model aircraft building?

One workmanlike win against a backdrop of several mediocre defeats and draws is hardly enough to inspire anyone, and certainly nothing to get carried away by.It could be the turning point or it could be just a dim light in a season of dark rooms (like West Ham was last year). Who knows? It is far too early to say.Most. like me, who want Neil to succeed (but not as much as I want to avoid a repeat of the Hughton "lets hang on until it''s too late" scenario) are reserving judgement until we have more evidence. Pretty dull (and blindingly obvious) reading is, and hardly worthy of a wasting anyone''s time.........