Fleck@Millwall

As Norwich fans we are acutely aware of the cylical nature of football for a club like ours and ride those high waves with such passion knowing that a Fernando Derverld, Roedder or Hamilton and horror shows at small Lancashire towns in the league lurk, waiting to spring us sometime soon. I am an advocate of change as I am desperate for us to maintain our place in the Prem and all the exposure etc this brings, it represents happy days. I am also very aware of Bolton, Blackburn, Wolves, Birmingham and many more now struggling in the depths after been ''stable competitive clubs'' for a few years in the Prem. What I have witnessed thus far suggests we will really struggle to stay in this league. Given we have two of the Big Four in the next three matches and the Capital One Cup is not maybe the best barometer - how much now rests on our game at Stoke for the manager? Has this become life and death for him or is this wayward thinking in the extreme and how does it change peoples perceptions? I think a win and he''s safe till Xmas at the earliest but I think a poor, tepid cautious performance could be the end as realistically we would then be looking at 5 defeats on the bounce.

No, this is wrong. They still love him up in the North East and Birmingham now flirt with relegation in the Championship so his reign is seen as a high watermark in comparison. I know Pardew finished 5th but he has never been accepted by a large section of the fan base because he''s a Londoner etc in the same way Houghton was. You must also remember that he took over two premiership clubs who were relegated which gave him an edge in terms of playing staff over his rivals in the Championship.

He was extremely close to the players at Newcastle by all accounts, particularly Nolan who was captain. You saw this when his job was on the line and the players thumped Sunderland 5-1 for him. At Birmingham again the players adored him. I think the key difference maybe that both were ''crisis clubs'' at the time. Newcastle and Birmingham had been relegated and were on the floor with financial issues, ownership issues and he managed to foster a spirit. At Norwich he came into a club which was flying over the previous 3 seasons and a very stable situation off the pitch. I think his brief was to keep us up and sure-up the defence which he did and the signing of Seb was a master-stroke. However, this is the first time he has really been tested. I''m sure he didn''t have the same back room staff at Newcastle although I could be wrong. The chemistry is certainly not the same although I strongly backed his appointment based on his previous.

Well, as long as it is dealt with but I don;t think Snoddy should be starting anyway at Stoke. I also think Houghton needs to make some sort of statement to be honest because there seems to be a group of less than content footballers and these types of incident don''t occur when everything is cool. Accepting you can read too much into things and if we were flying or he scored no one cares but it smacked a lot of egos and no rule of law nor was it good for team spirit. We need RVW in amongst the goals, Snoddy should have been telling him words of encouragement not telling him to f*ck off he was taking it.

[quote user="ReadingCanary"][quote user="haisbrohacker"]Going back to your thread title that is exactly what, Clough, Oneil and Lambert would do, make an example and ostracise a player for stepping out of line. H[/quote]Yep. A Snodgrass who is coming back from Injury and low on confidence should be shouted at and made example of by our manager.That will definitely ease him back into being the player he was last season.....You really being serious?[/quote] Yes simply because he did wrong. He has also created a slight sh*t storm for the manager by his actions. He''s not paid to make those decisions.

That''s extraordinary stuff. I recall the story of Pullis coming out of the shower and head butting James Beattie over a Xmas party request. You just knew at that point that Pullis was Bertie Big Bollox in that dressing room so to descend to a no-go area shows an astonishing fall from power. Am I following correctly that it''s implied that Hoots is not in our dressing room!!! Blimey, it''s like Apocalypse Now.

What I wanted to hear from our manager when asked about penalty-gate: "it will be dealt with internally" what I don''t want to hear is a political spin about confidence and we don''t get many spot kicks blah blah when our out-of-form winger goes renegade and costs us dearly. He clearly wasn''t nor isn''t confident at the minute, better efforts on goal have been witnessed at half-time during the cross-bar challenge than that lame effort. Houghton needs to stamp his authority and this would be a clear message to everyone about who runs the dressing room.

Agreed but when you see his perceived inferiority complex during interviews then borne out by his tactics then you wonder about what the message is to the players. For example, if you think the opposition is to strong and has too much quality and are quite explicit about that fact then what will the players mental state be? At the minute, it looks to me as if the players are labouring with a lack of belief which is a complete transformation on the previous incumbent.

If we go to Stoke, have a real go, create a bit of sustained pressure in their final third, look like a team capable and full of belief who are fully behind the manager with some real zip then I take back everything and give him a stay of execution but it won''t happen. It;s not 5 games, it''s half of last season as well, we started badly, went on an extrodinary run, then went into freefall, the football was tepid and cautious and nothing has changed but is getting worse. I love the guy, he would get all the backing in the world from everyone, we''ve welcomed him, supported him through some terrible times last year, we''ve backed him with money and yet he refuses to change. Most managers would give their right arm to manage our club with that transfer budget, a large loyal fanbase and the backing to build - he has to grasp it and CHANGE. EVERY fan would be behind him then but he must change rapidly. He has a credibility gap and has had for a while. Lose 3-2 at Stoke and give the fans something to hang onto that we will have a go. Do something because our play and the feel of everything is moribund at the minute.

Ruddy, Martin, R.Bennett, Whittaker, Ollson, Pilks, Tettey, Fer, Redmond, The Wolf and Hoops. Looks mobile and at them to me with two full backs pushing on who like to get forward and Mr Martin keeping an eye on Ryan at the back in the central areas, Tettey can win the ball and Fer can monster them. This team is a nice blend and with Wes to come on for plan B through the middle. I know he''ll play Turner etc but this would be my dream team.

Remember going there in the late 90''s and Kevin Scott had such a poor first half, we were 2-0 down at the break and terrible, that I think he never played professional football again, I would like to think not. Thought Stoke look organised and their just a bunch of massive b''stards. We have never being able to deal with K. Jones when he played for Saints and Stoke and he is now starting under Hughes so that coupled with Hoots tactics mean we''ll go in 1-0 at the break and capitulate early second-half again and then Stoke will kill the game and toy with us. Hoot''s will then come out and say how much quality Stoke have, how hard it is to play at this ground and get anything, how we will look for a reaction against Chelsea. You wonder whether his inferiority complex about the opposition rubs off on the players......

The caveat here of course is that Di Canio was exhibiting signs of mental illness although Hoot''s post-match interview on Saturday did not bode well. I think Blunderland is a more advanced case although I thought they showed a lot of spirit at home to Arsenal second-half, more than we did which makes you wonder about half-time team talks, Norwich were worse after the break and there was little reaction.....

With the greatest of respect, this is an extraordinary comment. The Wolf is proven and will be mustard, lets face it, even the best strikers in the world would be struggling in our side at the minute given the lack of quality in the final third. He''s a box player and so is Hooper which is great if the balls into the said box are half-way decent. The runs being made and the movement suggest he''s going to be great, its the tepid lame appraoch owkr at times which is stifling him. If he still hasn''t scored many after 20 games then we can start talking about Henrik Mortsensen mark two.

McNally has been great for our club, remember the hapless Doomcaster and some of those appointments. We are in a very strong pair of hands with him at the club. Our transfer activity has been revolutionised, our appointments are much better, the club is debt-free and eating at the top-table. His record is wonderful. He has also backed Hoots massively so it''s down to the manager to step-up to the plate.

He''s a great guy, comes across well and I think this is really sad. But it will only go one way. What shoots are there? Where''s the hope? Where''s the fans who think we are nearly there? We did all our transfer business early, pre-season was poor, since Xmas has been poor. I agree about fortunes on Saturday but if you cannot be a good manager be a lucky one - Lambert''s ethos meant fortune favoured the brave. We look like a side which is flat, down on our luck and lacking belief which is remarkable given all the pre-season optimism. Sadly its a sign that a reign is coming to an end. Good man Hoots, grateful to him for still being able to watch us on MOTD but the club''s ambition changed in the summer and his had to as well.

I really really wanted Hoots to succeed and last season we had some great results and he was the right man to stabilise following Lamberts departure and he kept us up which was a very good effort. Giving more time seems reasonable but I don''t see any signs anywhere of improvement, something to hang on to say this will get better. He frustrates the life out of me with his tactics away from home and on saturday just take Snoddy off for christ sake for everyone, including him and the managers sake. His post-match comments about our danger down Snoddy side when every cross was dreadful smacked of someone with a credibility gap to me. McNally made the right appointment given our circumstances and maybe should have some stern words - why oh why won''t Hoots just change?? We wouldnt even need this conversation.

A German-Dutch Axis at the club would do very nicely. Thinking big and foreign has served two comparable prem clubs well (Swansea and Southampton) - why not. He might instill some German discipline so we don''t get a repeat of penalty-gate again - even I nominate a spot-kick taker on Football Manager.

Is this the guy at Mainz? Didn''t the manager of Dortmund come from the same place? That would be amazing if we could get an up and coming German although Ole sounds very tasty to me, pulled up enough trees at Molde to suggest he is bright and capable and was highly regarded behind the scenes at United at Youth management level. McNally thinks big and unlike the hapless Doomcaster who always appointed out-of-work managers The Mac likes to head-hunt employed managers and he delivers in terms of players and managers, kind of like our David Levy!!

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]Give him another 5 games to get us to 10 points, then reward him with another 10 games after that? Really??? It would probably all be to late by than, appointing a new manager with less than half the season remaining would do little to stem a team deep in the relegation mire.[/quote] Agreed, must act swiftly to get a top target in before others do and change the mentality quickly, I think Hoots will be in charge for the Watford game and then a solution will be found post-match with an eye on a new man at the helm for Stoke away. The pressure is off against Arsenal and Chelsea and then the season can hopefully kick on against Cardiff.

A decent call and a risk maybe worth taking. I got pelters for O''Neill, man of statue with a great record pre-Blunderland and unfinished business at the Carra who loves to player with width and wingers - certainly command the respect of the players. However, possibly not popular and probably not interested. We need to find a Norwich-type manager who everyone would buy into. The Mac will already have a short-list in his top draw no doubt and each appointment and decision at managerial level I have fully supported, Hoots has not been a total disaster as we are still premiership. A Dutchman would be ideal if we could find one with a good track record of playing passing attractive football (NOT JOL!).

Agreed but do you think that The Wolf and Ollson are having a ball and I strongly suspect if Hoot''s tactics were delivering then players would get on with it. A number of our players are showing a worrying sign of lost form which is down to the manager to either rest them or promote confidence. I wonder whether they really enjoy being told to rigidly soak up pressure knowing they are up against world-class players and that is extremely difficult. I think Spurs away is a toughy we write off pre-season as anything is a bonus but at Hull was the real concern, the players didn;t really now what to do to get back into the game. I recall a similar situation at QPR under Lambert when they went down to 10 men and he completely changed it and we won 3-1 - Hoots does not react quickly enough and the subs are either brought on way to late or are baffling.

One rumour I like and think worth noting is that Ruddy made those comments post-Spurs as a nominated dressing room representative whose position within the first team is totally solid but he spoke out of frustration at tactics. In addition, the targets for Hoots would have been survival (looks doubtful), better away day performance (worse than ever) and more goals (1 in 4 games and didn''t score against the leakiest defence in the prem - 26 without a clean sheet) and to build on the summer optimism with some tasty looking opening fixtures. He''s failed to deliver I''m afraid. It''s not 5 games either so any fan calling for more time to get it right needs to look at the trends both on and off the pitch with fans, players the whole kit kaboodle.

Fair enough on the odds front and I totally agree regarding the fans. Hoots was always on a slight hiding to nothing after the Holt-Lambert Axis and those thrilling times and whatever is said he kept us up. Additionally, I so wanted him to succeed and thought the appointment shrewd but the style of play and the results are nowhere near good enough, the optimise of the summer has quickly given way to foreboding and he''s losing the fans rapidly. A new man needs a bit of time to sort things and we need some bounce effect because, given the run in, if we don''t have at least 20 points at Xmas we will be in for a real struggle. The players don''t buy into it, you can tell and The Mac will know much more than we do about the dressing room and if it is 100% behind him then they have a very funny way of showing it.

Agreed but I think Hoots was quite long before the weekend and has shortened somewhat . The Mac has been ruthless thus far and they''ll be very uneasy in the boardroom, the whole backing of Worthy torn the club apart to that nonsense of fans cheering Burnley goals at home at the end, there were major signs both at the ground and on Canary Call and on the forums that this is only going one way. Pardew is interesting but I think he''s on a huge long-term contract, we don;t know how the new Fulham ownership is and West Brom will give Clarke longer because they won 3-0 at home, if we had Sunderland next week fair enough but I seriously cannot see us getting another point out of the next thee with Hoots at the helm and McNally will also be monitoring the fans as well and the fixture list, we don;t want the Chelsea game turning into outright revolt.

I agree about booing, it''s very sad cos Hoots is a decent chap but Snoddy has been terrible etc and its pure frustration, the steam has been rising since last Xmas and away from home has become shambolic. So many baffling things, for me garrido ahead of Ollson and also, Hoots has had months to build a team around the Wolf''s strengths he was not a panic buy at 5 to 11 on deadline day - yet I''ve been to every home game and away at Hull and the guy hardly gets a kick. Ruddy''s comment, pilks and Javier and penalty-gate show me the dressing room is not great. Time to go, it''s not a knee jerk reaction - this is over 26-7 games not 5.