Juggy

[quote user="ReadingCanary"][quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="Billabong"]Sometimes I can''t believe the level of defeatist, pessimistic argument on this board! If your viewpoint is that all club status quo will remain the same forever and we can never raise ourselves above lower league fodder and the top 6, in fact the top 10 will remain the same for eternity - why even bother to watch a football match? Why not just sit in a corner with your half empty glass and tell yourself how bad life is and nothing will ever change, unless things get worse of course![/quote]Exactly. 100% correct. We are Norwich City, and once upon a time we were famous for punching above our weight and playing beautiful passing football to rival the best clubs in the land. We don''t just sink back and accept our place in football, we shake it up and mix it with the best. Our journey hasn''t finished yet, the big teams will one day fear coming to Carrow Road again. It can become a fortress again. [/quote]Alright Aragon...In all seriousness though, as we have repeatedly said.We love the club just as much as you do.We just believe it will take more time to achieved a position similar to that of Everton and that it is unrealistic to see us in the top 6[/quote]Fine. You believe that, I believe that we can challenge within a couple of years, if not this season. EVERTON:1992-93 42 7 6 8 26 27 8 2 11 27 28 -2 53 13th 1993-94 42 8 4 9 26 30 4 4 13 16 33 -21 44 17th 1994-95 42 8 9 4 31 23 3 8 10 13 28 -7 50 15th 1995-96 38 10 5 4 35 19 7 5 7 29 25 +20 61 6th 1996-97 38 7 4 8 24 22 3 8 8 20 35 -13 42 15th 1997-98 38 7 5 7 25 27 2 8 9 16 29 -15 40 17th 1998-99 38 6 8 5 22 12 5 2 12 20 35 -7 43 14th 1999-2k 38 7 9 3 36 19 5 5 9 23 28 +12 50 13th 2000-01 38 6 8 5 29 27 5 1 13 16 32 -14 42 16th 2001-02 38 8 4 7 26 23 3 6 10 19 34 -12 43 15th 2002-03 38 11 5 3 28 19 6 3 10 20 30 -1 59 7th 2003-04 38 8 5 6 27 20 1 7 11 18 37 -12 39 17th 2004-05 38 12 2 5 24 15 6 5 8 21 31 -1 61 4th 2005-06 38 8 4 7 22 22 6 4 9 12 27 -15 50 11th 2006-07 38 11 4 4 33 17 4 9 6 19 19 +16 58 6th 2007-08 38 11 4 4 34 17 8 4 7 21 16 +22 65 5th 2008-09 38 8 6 5 31 20 9 6 4 24 17 +18 63 5th 2009-10 38 11 6 2 35 21 5 7 7 25 28 +11 61 8th2010-11 38 9 7 3 31 23 4 8 7 20 22 +6 54 7th 2011-12 38 10 3 6 28 15 5 8 6 22 25 +10 56 7th 2012-13 38 12 6 1 33 17 4 9 6 22 23 +15 63 6thASTON VILLA2012/20131Barclays Premier League15th/2038559232856824411011174769412011/20121Barclays Premier League16th/2038478202531061728717143753382010/20111Barclays Premier League9th/20388742619451022401212144859482009/20101Barclays Premier League6th/203888329169552323171385239642008/20091Barclays Premier League6th/20387932721102727271711105448622007/20081Barclays Premier League6th/20381036342269437291612107151602006/20071Barclays Premiership11th/2038784201449623271117104341502005/20061Barclays Premiership16th/2038667202046922351012164255422004/20051Barclays Premiership10th/20388652617451019351211154552472003/20041Barclaycard Premiership6th/2038964241965824251511124844562002/20031Barclaycard Premiership16th/20381126251417111733129174247452001/20021F.A. Barclaycard Premiership8th/2038874221747824301214124647502000/20011F.A. Carling Premiership8th/2038883272057719231315104643541999/20001F.A. Carling Premiership6th/2038883231275723231513104635581998/19991F.A. Carling Premiership6th/20381036332857718181510135146551997/19981F.A. Carling Premiership7th/203893726248382324176154948571996/19971F.A. Carling Premiership5th/20381153271365820211710114734611995/19961F.A. Carling Premiership4th/2038115332157482020189115235631994/19951F.A. Carling Premiership18th/22426962724561024321115165156481993/19941F.A. Carling Premiership10th/224285823187772332151215465057

[quote user="Billabong"]Sometimes I can''t believe the level of defeatist, pessimistic argument on this board! If your viewpoint is that all club status quo will remain the same forever and we can never raise ourselves above lower league fodder and the top 6, in fact the top 10 will remain the same for eternity - why even bother to watch a football match? Why not just sit in a corner with your half empty glass and tell yourself how bad life is and nothing will ever change, unless things get worse of course![/quote]Exactly. 100% correct. We are Norwich City, and once upon a time we were famous for punching above our weight and playing beautiful passing football to rival the best clubs in the land. We don''t just sink back and accept our place in football, we shake it up and mix it with the best. Our journey hasn''t finished yet, the big teams will one day fear coming to Carrow Road again. It can become a fortress again. 

On the QPR forum they are under the impression that Hooper has his heart set on joining Norwich. If they get Hooper then we won''t have matched their bid.I''d be a little disappointed if he joins them for the sake of bidding £5m instead of £4m or whatever it was, but if the money ends up being £7m then that is a lot to pay for an unproven PL striker with one year left on his deal. But.... I''d rather pay £7m than end up short on strikers, so hope that we have suitable alternatives lined up. Don''t want to end up with another Kane or Becchio, we are in desperate need of a high calibre striker and if we don''t get one then letting Holt go would have been a big mistake. 

Danny Graham seems to have gone downhill, would only want him for Championship money.... £1.5m might be worth a punt. Suspect he will be back in the second tier before long. 

So let''s see, I have two people above criticising my thread. One is ReadingCanary, architect of the tread ''Robert Snodgrass Hands In Transfer Request''And City1st, whose trademark is to create a misleading title which leads the reader on to a picture of a shop sign.  I''ll skip. 

[quote user="ReadingCanary"]A Year Ago Today.How time has flown.[/quote]Bore off

[quote user="alartz"]The 1367 thread about this useless Spanish tool!![/quote]Any player who sticks one in against the scum at Portman Road is worthy of a lot more respect than that. 

[quote user="Michael Bates"]Again in my OPINION I cannot help but think the thought of Norwich competing for top 4-6 spots is way too optimistic. [/quote]Well I definitely cannot agree with that, so we can agree to disagree. There you go, your opinion respected. Will mine be respected by you? It hasn''t thus far. You wanted the entire thread deleted, remember? [quote]Our goals for the next few seasons is to be a top half side consistently placing 7-10th. (Something that has been a real struggle for teams below the ''top 6'' and Everton)[/quote]The top six IS Everton for christ sake. They have finished in the top six five times in the last nine years. They ARE the top six. If you want to include Liverpool in the top six based purely on their size and history then Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds, Nottingham Forest, and Notts County are also in the top six. Even by using your ''top seven'' I have already illustrated how your ''top seven'' seldom end up occupying the top six places in the league:2000-01 Leeds, Ipswich2001-02 Newcastle, Leeds2002-03 Blackburn2003-04 Newcastle, Aston Villa2004-05 Bolton2005-06 Blackburn2006-07 -2007-08 Aston Villa2008-09 Aston Villa2010-11 -2011-12 Newcastle UnitedOut of the top seven from last season, only twice in eleven or twelve years did six of them finish in the top six spaces. At what point did Villa stop being considered a top six team? How about Newcastle? The top six evolves and the above list of teams to penetrate it clearly  illustrates that. I don''t see how it become any clearer. Both Newcastle and Villa achieved three top six finishes over that period. Everton four in those seasons.Your ''top six'', which for some reason doesn''t include Everton, just doesn''t exist in the way that you imagine it too. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Tottenham aren''t having anything other than their Aston Villa period of success, and absolutely no reason why we can''t have our own Villa period or Newcastle period.As for all this guff about Everton''s supporter base, we are a bigger club than you give us credit for, 11th biggest in the country in terms of supporter base I believe. Certainly much bigger than the Fulham''s and Stoke''s that people want us to aspire too, and not all that smaller than Villa - who were getting gates of around 30k in the McLeish season and have to give away tickets for a tenner to fill their ground under Lambert. 

[quote user="Billabong"]I remember Norwich playing Arsenal at home, almost two-thirds through the 75/76 season. Arsenal were struggling at the bottom of the league and the commentator on Anglia TV making the point that Ted MacDougall had scored more goals than the entire Arsenal squad put together. Football dominance isn''t set in stone, nor is it guaranteed - We live in a world of change, back in the 70''s it seemed impossible that any team could overhaul Leeds or Derby! Man Utd were relegated! In the 80''s Liverpool looked invincible forever! - now they are a mid table team living on their history Football moves in cycles, cycles cycles! - just look at the bigger picture There is no reason why Norwich can''t improve beyond most peoples dreams or comprehension![/quote]Exactly. And in more recent history.... Newcastle went from the Championship to 5th place and a great run in Europe within two years. Man City were relegated to League One, and the Welsh have gone from never having a team in the Premier League to having two teams in the Premier League in the space of two years. I just don''t understand the argument that people have in which they say football has changed too much in the past ten years for it to change over the next ten years. The rate of evolution has always been this fast and always will be, nothing will ever be set in stone. Two things in life are certain - death and taxes. Football is about as far away from being certain as possible. 

[quote user="pilksfanclub"]As I said I think Fulham is much more realistic aim or Stoke. [/quote]So we should aspire to me like a team who finished below us in the league last season with smaller gates and a much larger wage bill (Fulham), or like a team who finished below us in the league with a team full of overpaid thirty something year old mercenaries. We are already the equal of Stoke, why the hell would we want to stand still? Both of those clubs have gone backwards, we are on an upward projectory. Amazes me that people still see Fulham and Stoke as superior, we aren''t in the Championship anymore!! 

Championship basically, is at the age where he just needs to play games. Would be nothing other than a squad player here, and we already have Butterfield. 

Needs to go somewhere we he would play every week and that isn''t here. 

[quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]It''s not just the internet streams.  There are those satellite boxes where you apparently pay about £140 - £150 for the box, initial set up and first year then pay about £50 - £60 a YEAR after that and you get every Sky channel available.  They are run by crims from a server somewhere and as you can imagine, Sky aren''t too happy about it. [/quote]I was under the impression that what you actually get is a subscription to Greek cable, which the high court ruled as completely legal as Greece is an EU country and the EU is a single market.[/quote]Or something like that anyway...

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]It''s not just the internet streams.  There are those satellite boxes where you apparently pay about £140 - £150 for the box, initial set up and first year then pay about £50 - £60 a YEAR after that and you get every Sky channel available.  They are run by crims from a server somewhere and as you can imagine, Sky aren''t too happy about it. [/quote]I was under the impression that what you actually get is a subscription to Greek cable, which the high court ruled as completely legal as Greece is an EU country and the EU is a single market.

[quote user="TheNewBoy"][quote user="Monty13"]"The moot point is are those fans who watch the games on live stream fans who would have either taken out a subscription or paid to go to games. My experience is that many are neither, so the clubs and the broadcasters are not actually losing money ......" Of course they are losing money City1st, theres service being provided out there for free. If PL (or Sky/BT/Whoever was given the rights) was to show high quality streams and charge people they would make a hefty profit plus additional advertising revenue. Some people are always going to want something for nothing, but I''ll warrant theres a large market for those who want quality and are prepared to pay. Itunes (Music/Movies), Netflix/Lovefilm (Movie/Tv Rentals), Steam/PSN/XboxLive (Games) - all of these services have appeared in response to pirates pioneering the way to use the internet, and have also evolved (removed DRM, improved services) in response to pirating as well. The PL are being incredibly naive and backward, especially when you consider other major sports (Most notably NFL) allow this system and are raking in the profits. They''ll come around eventually when they realise the potential revenue they are missing out on, not because people aren''t going to grounds or subscribing to Sky, but because people aren''t being offered the service they want and would be prepared to pay for.[/quote]Agree completely with this. Allow people to pay a modest sum of money to watch the games that they pick and choose online or through a console, and they won''t even bother with poor quality streams on sites with pop up ads.The only games that I wish to watch are Norwich away games, about 19 a year, minus one or two that I actually end up going to. Why not charge me a a small sum each time I wish to watch one of those games, instead of asking me to subscribe to a service which will show me only a handful of those games and otherwise only offer me games featuring teams that I have no interest in watching.I would pay probably a fiver a game to watch every Norwich away game on my TV or laptop with no ad interrupts. That is £80-90 that they don''t currently get from me. Last season I watched 16 games on stream, went to 2 live, and couldn''t find a stream for another. [/quote]For fans that don''t go to away games, that is potentially £5 x 38 = £190.  Probably make more money that way. I''m not signing up to Sky Sports to watch Man Utd and Liverpool every week. 

[quote user="Monty13"]"The moot point is are those fans who watch the games on live stream fans who would have either taken out a subscription or paid to go to games. My experience is that many are neither, so the clubs and the broadcasters are not actually losing money ......" Of course they are losing money City1st, theres service being provided out there for free. If PL (or Sky/BT/Whoever was given the rights) was to show high quality streams and charge people they would make a hefty profit plus additional advertising revenue. Some people are always going to want something for nothing, but I''ll warrant theres a large market for those who want quality and are prepared to pay. Itunes (Music/Movies), Netflix/Lovefilm (Movie/Tv Rentals), Steam/PSN/XboxLive (Games) - all of these services have appeared in response to pirates pioneering the way to use the internet, and have also evolved (removed DRM, improved services) in response to pirating as well. The PL are being incredibly naive and backward, especially when you consider other major sports (Most notably NFL) allow this system and are raking in the profits. They''ll come around eventually when they realise the potential revenue they are missing out on, not because people aren''t going to grounds or subscribing to Sky, but because people aren''t being offered the service they want and would be prepared to pay for.[/quote]Agree completely with this. Allow people to pay a modest sum of money to watch the games that they pick and choose online or through a console, and they won''t even bother with poor quality streams on sites with pop up ads.The only games that I wish to watch are Norwich away games, about 19 a year, minus one or two that I actually end up going to. Why not charge me a a small sum each time I wish to watch one of those games, instead of asking me to subscribe to a service which will show me only a handful of those games and otherwise only offer me games featuring teams that I have no interest in watching.I would pay probably a fiver a game to watch every Norwich away game on my TV or laptop with no ad interrupts. That is £80-90 that they don''t currently get from me. Last season I watched 16 games on stream, went to 2 live, and couldn''t find a stream for another. 

[quote user="ReadingCanary"]So we are on our third year in the Prem and we are could become "Arsenal"Right......[/quote]This is apparently your attempt to initiate debate and discuss your opinion ReadingCanary.

[quote user="ReadingCanary"]You don''t seem to grasp the concept TheNewBoy that people can have a different opinion to you... [/quote]You haven''t offered any opinions, only ridiculed mine (which weren''t really opinions but an attempt at a hypothetical discussion).  [quote] and still support / love the club just as much as you apparently do. [/quote]Pathetic card to play, the ''who is a bigger supporter one'', you played it not me. I will say that I am clearly the supporter with some sort of vision and ambition though, not apologizing for possessing those traits. [quote] We of course want to see the club do well, we just have different visions of how long it will take, [/quote]Took David Moyes a couple of years to propel Everton from relegation scrappers to top six contenders. It took Lambert two seasons to take us from League One to Premier League. Who knows where Hughton could take us in his two years, can see no reason why it couldn''t be Wembley or somewhere in the top 7/8. Yes, we have different opinions on how long it could take, agreed. I think it could happen over the next couple of seasons, you don''t. [quote]  Walls of text blasting everything anyone says against your theory however is somewhat against the spirit of a message board. [/quote] If you don''t like my thread, then don''t visit my thread, start your own.  Cheerio! [quote]  It''s supposed to be a place where you can debate and share discussions not be met by hostile rebuffing of your own opinion.[/quote] You haven''t at any stage attempting to debate or discuss with me, only pick and choose sections of my OP to ridicule the idea, took you ages to even acknowledge that I''d also mentioned Everton.[quote] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwlsd8RAoqINow I know how poor old Michael Howard felt. [/quote]  Not clicking that. If that''s Michael Howard the Tory, then well I hope he felt bloody terrible. 

[quote user="paul moy"]Football goes in cycles although ever bigger and bigger ones so of course the answer is YES. [/quote]Exactly mate, some people can understand this and some people can''t. The only team to pretty much permanently be in the elite three since WWII is Man Utd. Most of the serious challengers in every decade since have dropped off eventually, and new ones have taken their place.Everton may have just had their decade. Somebody else will have theirs. Might be Swansea, may even be Villa (hate to say it, but it could be), or it could be us.Some people are willing to look at Villa and think that they could become a top six club again but can''t see it for us. It is a small club mentality that needs to be shaken off. Villa have got serious debts, still have expensive has-beens on the pay roll, and have a manager no better than ours. We are just as much as a contender over the next five or ten years as they are. Yet people still have this mental block which sees Villa as a big club and Norwich as a small one. 

[quote user="ReadingCanary"]Everton - YesArsenal - NoMaking the thread title Arsenal if you really meant Everton - Silly[/quote]Everton - YesArsenal - Who knows, maybe one dayMaking the thread title Arsenal - Don''t click on it if you don''t like it

[quote user="Michael Bates"]We can be an everton now as theyre in free fall having reached their peak and have little money to spend and losing their manager. However the top six will from this season be as strong as ever. [/quote]Everton were in the top 6 this season you muppet. So Everton are in free fall but the ''top six'' are as strong as ever. Why don''t you think about what you are saying? If Liverpool finish in the top six this season then the top six has changed, like it changes every year. Every single year the top six has been different to the year before for the past 12 years and probably every season since the top division began. There is no such thing as this impenetrable top six, it gets penetrated by one of the clubs below sixth every single year. Why don''t you actually study the league table from every year for the past ten or twenty years before writing this rubbish? [quote] Cant you see how much liverpool will have improved from their past few seasons due to their overhaul? [/quote] They got better in the second half of last season, but other clubs improved last season, and others may struggle. Everton in particular may struggle this season, and Tottenham will struggle to replace Bale when he leaves, whether that is in one year or three years time.[quote]  And lets not get past the point you originally were making. Bettering arsenal so you were suggesting a top 4.[/quote] I never said anything about bettering Arsenal. You seem to completely lack the ability to comprehend a purely hypothetical example and apparently also the ability to comprehend that somebody can possess an imagination. You have also conveniently continued to jump all over my Arsenal comparison whilst ignoring my Everton example. Five top six finishes in nine years for Everton, and all you can go on about is how much Liverpool are improving. [quote] Dont get me wrong id love it to happen but im being more realistic. It is a real challenge to stay top half for 3 seasons on the trot let alone be consostently a top 7 side like everton.[/quote]If we can''t aspire to ''do an Everton'' then there is no point in us even being in this division. That''s precisely where we should be aiming to get and I just thank my lucky stars that we have a forward thinking ambitious CEO in David McNally rather than somebody like yourself. 

[quote user="pilksfanclub"]Just because we don''t believe Norwich can become a footballing superpower doesn''t mean we are defeatist. We just aren''t losing our sense of proportion[/quote]Clearly people are just reading my OP, laughing at the use of Arsenal as an example, and then proceeding to ridicule that choice of club.If they were to take in the contents of the entire thread, and the second half of my OP, they would also have seen the comparison between us and Everton. Everybody seems to offer up reason why we can''t become Arsenal. What about Everton? Go on..... why can''t we become an Everton? What would be the first step towards becoming an Arsenal? Well, it would probably be to have a ten year period as strong as the one that Everton have just had.Nobody can offer a good reason why we can''t become an Everton. If we become an Everton, why wouldn''t we think about becoming an Arsenal? Everton have become Liverpools 1st club!

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]The only way it will be stopped is when the ISPs have enough pressure put upon them to do something about it - it would be fairly easy to block their customers from these sites. The fact that one the UKs major ISPs now has the rights to Premier League football games might mean they at least feel more inclinded to do something about it. I guess no one really knows if it will be possible or not to stream games until 3pm on 17th August - then it will become pretty obvious if things have changed or not. [/quote]All that will happen then is that streaming sites would move to the .onion thing and we will all have to install the Tor browser. At least then it the ''second web'' would serve a purpose to people other than druggies and terrorists. 

[quote user="clarkey1972"]Its going to be someone who will be playing week in week out when fit. Bassong for me. Russ martin wont be playing week in imho[/quote]Do people really see Martin as inferior to Whittaker? Pretty similar standard in my opinion, when played right back. 

[quote user="lincoln canary"]Was thinking Russ but I don''t think he''ll be a regular. Otherwise Bassong is a good shout. Maybe howson?[/quote]So Russ isn''t regular enough but Howson is? I love them both but competition will be fierce in midfield next year if we sign another attacking mid, I bet Martin will get more minutes than Howson.