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The Great Mass Debater

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Everything posted by The Great Mass Debater

  1. So what are you saying the club could have done better on? If it's not sacking him after that free-hit Premiership cash-grab, the club bounced back and got promoted again winning the league and breaking a record I believe, so Im not sure how the club paid the price then. If you're suggesting we should have sacked Farke before the end of that season, well, we tried that 11 games in with Smith and that was catastrophic. And he had £60m of new players to work with, which any mid-season replacement for Farke wouldnt have had - they'd have had the same bunch of kids and 3rd tier German players Farke had. So Im not sure how the club is paying a heavy price due to Farke? Run me through your thinking here 🤔
  2. The loyalty to Wagner, who has achieved nothing at the club, makes it even more baffling that Farke, a man who had achieved plenty at the club was shown so little. What has Wagner done to justify the faith that was not shown to others?
  3. Efan Ekoku's revelation that he hated the bird **** kit. What about you?
  4. Wagner has said Placheta's future is as a left back. Placheta's coaches in Poland said they also saw his future at left back. He's not good enough to be a winger. Perhaps a little like Elliott Bennett who I always thought would have been better utilised as a fullback
  5. Considering the manner in which Farke was sacked, after a win should Wagner be feeling more nervous??
  6. Might there be an argument that the club does not possess the coaching talent to help Rowe with that? So make up for his inexperience - ie teach him how to adapt and progress?
  7. While we're at it, does anyone know what the club see in Idah? Im not sure on what his long contract was based on
  8. Anyone understand why Barnes seemingly raves about Sargent? Just being a good teammate and trying to get his confidence up or has Barnes clearly seen something? Because every time I've seen him play he was
  9. No. Wagner should be getting results now. Transition period is well and truly over. This is his team and his tactics, and it's not going very well. I cant see him turning it round like the famous Mark Robins goal saving SAF from the chop before he could get going. Wagner is toast I think. They've only stuck with him because of the transition of power. Now is not the time to change the manager from their point of view, irrespective of how poorly he is doing. Wagner is essentially a dunsel at this point. Back to the Farke thing. The question I have for most is - do you give Farke a pass for his first Premier League season? We knew the team needed strengthening after a surprise promotion achieved with German 3rd tier players and kids. But there was no investment. Byram being our only fee for £350,000 I believe. If we accept Farke was sent to war with no weaponry for that season, and it was treated like a free hit is his should his prior Premier League record be disregarded, given the hopeless position he was put in. I think it should, and probably so did the club hence not sacking him - they agreed it wasnt his fault. So if we disregard that season, Farke truly genuinely sacked off the back of 11 games. We have lost 8 of our last 10 games - and yet Wagner is still here. So my question is - why is a man with no credit in the bank shown more faith than a man who had oodles? That's why I believe Farke was treated poorly. If you feel he should be judged by his Premier League record as a whole then fair enough, it was awful. But the club clearly felt Farke was mismanaging a squad full of diamonds. We now know that he wasnt. He was given a bunch of duds. Farke was the one who paid the price for it, when really it should have been whomever was responsible for recruitment. Being priced out of the Ajer signing for example, by Brentford - a club we should be able to go toe to toe with. He proved to be a good signing for them and may illustrate that with more ambition we could have got first choices over the line, instead of wasting the money where we did. If I was Farke and my job that season was on the line, I would have been hopping mad that 10.5m of my warchest was splurged on one for the future (Tzolis). That money would have been far better spent on increasing our offers for targets we were outbid on to get them over the line.
  10. Anyone able to explain why Rowe has gone from free-scoring to, well, not? Has something changed or has he merely seen the end of his purple patch?
  11. I suppose it comes down to who you blame for that relegation. We'd been somewhat of a surprise package winning the Championship, certainly the season before there were few signs of what was about to come. Indeed I thought Webber was a one-trick pony and had simply tried to do with Farke what he had done with Wagner at Huddersfield by raiding Borussia Dortmand 2 again. Certainly after Farke's first season I thought he was a pound-shop Wagner. Like booking Embrace when you couldnt get Oasis. Yet Wagner looks far from the real deal at the moment. It's very unlikely he will survive this and is a dead man walking. But is Farke to blame for that relegation? Liverpool was men against boys. We believed in Farke and the kids, indeed we had more shots at Anfield than any opposing team in the previous 2 years I believe. Just a false start we hoped and when Pukki scored his hat-trick against Newcastle it looked like we were going to ride the momentum like many a team in their first Premier League season (Sheff Utd and Reading come to mind). Neutral fans loved us in the beginning like they had with Swansea - our approach was commended and we were being talked of as potentially being the best team ever to go down. But then the bubble burst. Ultimately the surprise promotion saw the club take a 'free hit' approach, cop the money and parachute payments and provide a secure foundation for the club going forward, with the plan to bounce back by being ready to hit the Championship again running. This is what also saw us become hated by the neutral who saw us as cynical money-grabbers with no ambition to have an authentic attempt at staying up. Farke was sacrificed because the club had faith in the players they had recruited, and not the manager. Their intonation was that Farke was a nearly man who was squandering genuine quality (the bazookas), and a new manager would stop them underperforming. We now know those players were duds, not world beaters, and that Webber's recruitment has been consistently poor. So when Farke wasnt able to keep the team up with some kids and some players plucked from the German third tier, and then given duds on our return after having his best and key player Emi sold out from under him - who do you hold responsible for the poor start. Given what we now know about the quality of the players he was working with? I mean Smith didnt get anything out of that group. Sargent, Rashica and Tzolis were all awful recruits. As was Billy Gilmour. It was as if the club learned nothing form the RVW and Naismith signings. So I dont hold Farke responsible for that relegation. Nor do I hold Smith accountable. The failing is of the club and its approach as a whole - but they made Farke the fall guy, the scape goat, the patsy. It will be interesting to see how he fares at Leeds.
  12. I havent watched us this season. Rather fallen out of love with football as a whole and decided to take a break from actively following football. From my perspective Wagner had a good start and it seemed like all was going to be rosy as his philosophy had been embedded with a good pre-season and Wagner now had the types of players he wanted for his system. Then came the slump. It was said of Bielsa that his teams, like Wagner's, needed the right players to cope with the demands of the system, and that ultimately his teams collapse and run out of steam, somewhat of an inevitibility about the final destination of his tenures. So is this what has happened with Wagner? A promising start being merely a false dawn as his tactics are fundamentally flawed? That it was only a matter of time before teams worked out how to exploit the weaknesses in the system - the idea of a manager getting 'found out'. Or does he not have the players? Farke didnt have the players at Premier League level to make his type of football work. Great in the Championship but not feasible in the Premier League without the calibre of player to make it work. So are Wagner's tactics sound but he doesnt have the right players for it? It is notable that the slump started when we lost Barnes and Sargent. If they had been available, might things have been different? Or has Wagner been given lemons again and this is merely showing through? Its an honest question because I genuinely dont know and this is me asking people who have actually been watching the football. Wagner does have a record. Not only did he get Huddersfield promoted, he also kept them up. So he has had a level of success in English football, that we were clearly hoping he could replicate here. So he is not a busted flush. What is the difference between his success at Huddersfield and how it is going here? Presumably he had the same philosophy at Huddersfield. Why isnt it proving successful with us? Did he have players that were able to make his tactics work when at Huddersfield?
  13. The point is rather that Farke should have had a lot of credit in the bank that might have seen him shown more faith - on the back of his successes. Smith had no credit in the bank, neither has Wagner, because neither of them have achieved anything at the club. But both have been shown more loyalty than Farke was. Such a brutal ending to what remains a highly successful period in the clubs recent history. None of his successes mattered when it came to ending his tenure. And yet faith is being shown to managers who have achieved nothing.
  14. What all of this further goes to show is how badly we treated Farke. A man who won us the league twice, once after having been relegated the season before, who was sent to war with no weaponry in the Premier League and who had a fantastic relationship with the supporters and had proven to be the holy grail in terms of making the academy bear fruit. This man got 11 games into a new 4 year contract before he was brutally sacked in the away dressing room after the first win of the season. Smith and Wagner have achieved nothing at this club, yet both been shown far more loyalty than Farke was. It's baffling.
  15. A good manager will find a way to get results from what he has. Winning games may be harder, but not getting beaten can be achieved through industry and organisation if talent is wanting
  16. Did you know Gary Medel was named after Gary Lineker?
  17. I just learned Mark Bowen's middle name is Rosslyn
  18. I found a 92/93 database for Football Manager. I dont normally play as Norwich other than when Im first getting a feel for the game, but Im really enjoying the novelty of being in charge of this team. My question is about Rob Newman. This season was the season I started being a Norwich fan, so obviously I knew Newman as a fixture but probably not much about him. I tend to remember him as a player who, like Daryl Sutch could play in a number of positions. What are your memories of Newman? What position do you tend to think of him in?
  19. Watching the game yesterday the main impression I was left with was that I dont think we have the personnel at present to play the way Wagner wants to play. Wagner I think was the right managerial choice. His style of play has a better chance of being successful in the Premier League, and our problem with Farkeball was that it worked very well in the championship when you had the best players, but proved not to work when you have the poorest squad in the division, meaning on promotion you are probably looking at a complete squad overhaul or a change in system. We always needed a way of playing that could get us up, but then also stand a chance of keeping us there without the need for major surgery. BUT... it doesnt look to me like we have the players at present, they look square pegs in round holes. To play out from the back you need a keeper comfortable with the ball at his feet and good at distributing. That doesnt seem to be either Krul or Gunn. Aarons and Giannoulis can certainly attack, though both are questionable in defence and Giannoulis and found himself getting hooked again. Is that 3 managers now? Gibson is supposed to be a ball playing CB, as is Hanley. Dont see it myself. Not Omo's strength. McLean seemed to pass well but isnt really what I would highlight as his strength. Sara Im still working out. Nunez certainly has the flair and the passing ability. Could he play in front of the CBs as a deep lying midfielder? Hernandez I love and hope he can capture his best form, though many think he is past it and an emergency stop-gap player for now. Placheta is possibly the worst player I've ever seen in yellow, Tzolis looked incredibly stiff and awkward yesterday like he needed a **** - no idea what was going on there. Showed he can produce in that game against Bournmouth, but remember RvW and Naismith started well as well. Dowell is a square peg and certainly doesnt belong on the wing. Idah I dont know what he does on the training pitch but it must be good because he's not got that new contract based on his match contributions. Sargent has found his level and doesnt look nearly as terrible as last season, but both he and Pukki barely touched the ball yesterday. Pukki struck me with his movement and footwork and he clearly still has it. I hope he stays but he may not be the kind of striker Wagner wants for his system. Not sure Josh is either. This squad strikes me as needing a big overhaul. Im sure many will disagree and I think an overhaul is the last thing the club wants. But that's my take as an armchair fan.
  20. According to the Todd article, Pukki is out of contract at the end of the season. How the hell has that been allowed to happen?!
  21. Championship is Kenny's level, certainly no reason for him not to play a role. Though Rangers were reported to be interested. I wonder if Hugill may get more of a look in
  22. He cant have naked pictures of Wagner as well surely?! In all seriousness though we are about to experience the most excitng point of any new appointment. A new broom. Favouritism out of the window, previous dogma out of the window. Player relationships and evaluations reset. Wagner has the January transfer window, so it is possible we will see some of his players come in from his and his team's knowledge pool. Though Brexit a likely hinderance here. We may have had targets in mind for January who may no longer fit the bill. Wagner's tactics at Huddersfield, if he is to follow the same approach suggests high pressing and a front 4 - 2 wide players and a foward plus a number 10. Despite a number of wide players at the club we seemed to have abandoned wingers with a 433 system. Might wide players now be reinvigorated? Rashica and Tzolis are away from the club - might they return? We wondered about Hernandez this time last year, but Smith chose to stick with Placheta. For some reason - the warning signs were already there. Especially when they kept trotting out the line 'We're happy with the squad'. Who may now come back into the fold? Hernandez is a possibility, obviously being German helps a little. Placheta though injured may come into his thinking. Alternatively both may be binned off as soon as possible - Wagner may have already identified some dead wood. Dowell, who the system didnt fit at all may get a chance at number 10, but Id imagine he'd want to try a Pukki - Sargent partnership here. Nunez may get a chance at either number 10 or wide, ditto Todd. Isnt Todd's contract up in 6 months though? Sara/Jacobsen to compete for the CDM role, with Wagner favouring a disciplined CDM to drop back into a back 3 when the wing-backs push on. Hopefully a bit of a shake-up will see the players respond. Will be interesting to see who gets the goalkeeping slot. It's even conceivable that Krul might leave if Wagner decides Gunn is his number 1
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