Ray

GJP, I feel your understanding of what I am saying is different to mine. I said "in my opinion" you are clutching at straws, so you can tell me as oiften as you like you are not, my opinion will prove me right to me, and my opinion is you are, also as you yourself said you were quoting extreme examples. However, because I understand that as human beings we lean toward being subjective in our views, I prefer to look at stats, which are more objective, although I fully accept they do not always tell the full story. When the stats tell me Whitts does a better job overall, I will chnage my opinion, but by then you may have changed yours and therfore we may still not agree!! Good ''innit!

GJP, IMO you appear to be clutching at straws to justify your view but that doesn''t make you wrong, in fact it proves you right to you, however, it looks like the majority of posters disagree with you and of course their opinion proves them right to them. Whatever 11 takes to the field tomorrow, let''s hope the manger has fired them up, or made tactical changes, to send the oppo home with their tails between their legs and then we can all believe in Christams miracles and Santa again!!

Cambridge, Still doesn''t account for the 28% improvement over SW when it cames to successful long balls and re charging forward they have the same crosses per game at 0.3, so all that proves is that if SW gets forward more, and I don''t believe he does, but if he does then RM is obviously making better use of the ball when he does, although I firmly believe they are both playing under instructions to stay back.

GJP, Your eyes are only the conduit to carry information to the brain, which as I said is hard wired to prove you right by soting through the data and placing into your conscious and sub concious, the information it needs to prove itself right. Ever been in the situation where you can''t find something and along comes your partner, or someone else, and points it out hiding on top of everything else? Well you probably started with the idea that you wouldn''t be able to find it or it wouldn''t be where it was supposed to be. It''s what the brain does, For example, I think Snoddy is crap at taking corners, so guess what, I see loads of his crap corners every game and spout about it after the match, when if I was to watch the match back a little more objectively, I would probably see some decent corners. None of us are immune to this phenomena but it can help if you understand it exists, a bit!

GJP, Not sure how many times I need to post this and yes I know stats can be misleading but; Passes per game - RM 45.5, SW 27.8 Pass Success % - RM 80.4, SW 74.5, My maths says, RM makes 36.6 successful passes per game, SW makes 20.71 Crosses - they are equal at 0.3 per game Accurate long ball per game - RM 2.7, SW 2.1. So RM plays 28.57% more successful long balls per game than SW. So I just don''t get how people say SW makes better use of the ball, when the stats say the complete opposite, even allowing for a bit of damn lies, etc. RM still comes out on top surely. Of course we can all fall into the proving ourselves right trap, that''s to say we will see what we need to see to prove ourself right, it;s called Dominant Thought and the brain is hard wired to prove itself right and will therefore see the things it needs to see to do so, which is why I tend to look at stats, they are probably less skewed than my barin will be when it serches for the proof I was right all along!

Hi Dave, What is it that gives you this opinion? Having watched both lads over the last two years, I have seen them outperform each other, Josh may be slightyly ahead at the moment but I think ultimately they are pretty equal when it comes to natural ability.

Fenway Frank, Not as simple as that, different areas of the ground, friends of friends, etc. but thanks for the thought.

Accepted

Kolin, Perhaps more meaningful would be the number of games he misssed, or include the total games played by the club that season, so we can (or you could if you feel like it) work out the percentage of games missed/played.

Holtcantshoot, A fair point but I for one wouldn''t want us to have to rely on Whitts palying in any of those positions regularly, with the poss exception of left back, whereas I would be resonably happy to have RM play at either RB or CB (he plays there for Strachan), furthermore he is actually one of our four CB''s and one of our two RB''s, whereas Whitts is not our 1st or second choice for any position other than RB, hence the point I made that we would potentially need to buy two players to replace RM and only one to replace Whitts.

Herman, Don''t have this info to hand but guessing Whitts'' is better, but then it does depend on how far back you want to go, if you include sub appearances, etc. Although I''m not sure what the relevance would be. A win ratio depends on the entire team including subs. Surely individual stats are more appropriate if we are comparing two individual players. Two teams or two managers then the win ration is very telling.

Bert & Mrs Miggins, If you read the post you would know the answer to your question and not gay, but what anyone''s sexuality has to do with two people doing each other a favour I do not know. Mrs Miggins, imo someone who has nothing else do to than post potentially libelous remarks about others, when the thread in effect didn''t even involve them, would possibly be better served taking a look at their own life.

Thanks Tristan, have texted you. Take care. Ray

Hi Tristan, I may be able to place the other one for you but won''t know until poosibly Xmas Eve. I will be at the ground quite early, so would it be OK for your mate to meet me outside the Directors entrance, what time would be best for him/her? Cheers Ray

Hi Tristan, That would be great. It''s the two together I could use, is this OK with you. Cash on delivery. Cheers Ray

Barry The Boy, Ses stats posted earlier; Ave Passes per Game - RM 45.5 SW 26.6 Pass Success % - RM 80.4 SW 76.1 Accurate Long Ball per Game - RM 2.7 SW 2.0 Plus of course RM covers two positions and is Club Captain and a natural leader, in my opinion, and that of many of the players. So fait accompli? Would keep RM as cover for CB & RB if we can get a better RB, if we can for the money we can afford to pay fee wise and salary wise. Would also keep him around the club for as long as poss and would think about grooming him as a coach and future manager.

Barry The Boy, I know, I also knoiw he was unable to travel through injury before she became unwell. Next

Barry The Boy, Your first point is incorrect, which overrides your second.

Chicken, This season''s stats say; Ave Passes per Game - RM 45.5 SW 26.6 Pass Success % - RM 80.4 SW 76.1 Accurate Long Ball per Game - RM 2.7 SW 2.0 So on this basis it appears his final ball is better than SW''s. Defensively he also out performs Whitts (as many posters suggest) with the exception of tackles made, but then this proves the point made earlier in this thread re jumping in.

GMD, Slight knock should be OK for Fulham, we need him back.

IMO, Same starting eleven, on the bench, Nash, Garrido, Bennett, Snodgrass, RVW, Hoolahan, Josh Murphy.

Hi Tristan, Have you found a buyer, if not I think I can place them for you. Can you let me know the best way to contact you, thanks. Ray

BarclayUpperCut, Can you elucidate on your choices, as I don''t undrstand some of your pics - thanks. My reasoning is as follows; Becchio, I sort of understand given the amount of game time he gets, so we may as well start blooding one of the U21s, that way we receive a transfer fee and save on salary. Fox and Surman, I get too, especially as they are not here at the moment so we are surviving without them anyway and again we will recieve a fee. Martin, I''m not so sure. As he covers two positions and unless we can find another player with more ability who can cover both positions then we will need to buy two players, which also takes up two of our 25 man squad and we will have two salaries to pay, unless of course we again blood a couple of our U21s. Pilkington, yeah sort of get it again. If we count Snoddy as a winger, and I''m not sure I do, then assuming all are fit, we have Redmond, Bennett, Snoddy and the two Murphys as cover. Garrido, again not so sure as we will need to buy to ensure cover, so unless the new player has more ability, then what''s the point. Also if Martin and Garrido go then we only have two FBs and will have effectively sold three defenders, two full backs and a centre back. Now, if we sold all six on your list what do you think we will receive in transfer fees and how much would we have to spend to replace them, some of which we would have to be, because whilst I champion blooding youngsters, four or more within one month??

Feedthewolf, I agree, with your sentiment re giving some of the youngsters a chance, let''s face it they must be damn good players or they wouldn''t be here in the first place and at some stage every player has to make their debut and thay don''t all do it in the lower leagues as you pointed out with the Southampton lads and there are of course many other examples of very young players stepping straight into the Prem.

I Love Fernanado, Not sure what you mean by mens football, all these lads are over 18, admittedly Carlton Morris only 3 days ago and still qualifies for the U18''s, but the U21''s regularly come up against 1st team players making a come back from injury or needing a run out and compete incredibly well. (The U21''s are allowed to field one keeper and three outfield players who are over 21) I''m not suggesting they shouldn''t go out on loan but I think some, if not all of them, could cut it in our first team. There is another player who I would add to your list, that''s Ewan McNeil a RB. I think we may see some of these lads featue in the squad soon, if not on the bench and then who knows what that may bring? Either way I do feel we have some very exciting and promising youngsters, who of course are cheap when compared to going into the transfer market and spending millions. If we can bring at least a couiple of them through then this effectively frees up money for a bigger name elsewhere, if needed.