The Gingerking

Whilst never one to typically revel too hard in the endless supply of schadenfreude, I must say i have recently found it hard not to chuckle heartily at the frequency and desperation with which they now roll the ‘blame dice’. Without mentioning the tumultuous past, in this season alone they veered from in the vast majority, it’s the owner to it’s definitely the manager (PL sacked), to it’s the owner again (ME finally sold club) and now the world seems to agree, it’s the players. I don’t believe I have ever seen a fan base with such a universal consensus that it’s the players right now who are to blame. I can only put this down to the fact that everything else is so new that it is apparently beyond reproach. I find the fickleness of it all pretty sickening. These are the same players won three straight games under Gill once PL had basically given up, but now apparently all need simultaneously kicking out and a new squad brought in. I predict that once most of the squad are let go and the likely insta-success is once again not forthcoming, that they will go after the manager hard first (already signs PC is not going to work any magic there), then the execs and new owners (who will clearly go nowhere) and maybe eventually, even the new players. Keep that old blame dice rolling. The entertainment is endless.

Spot on assessment that. The fanbase about to find out that what they wished for so hard, requires years of work to bear fruit. can’t wait to see their faces.

Whilst not agreeing in any way with the assertion that it’s a must win, I do think we should approach in a highly competitive manner. I don’t remotely envisage promotion as an issue, but surely everyone is conscious that should we lose both this game and the Watford game, Watford could be within two points and we could have to really sweat our way to the title. The title IS still to play for. To not win the title from this position would constitute daylight robbery. I see it as about a 20-1 scenario, but still an existing possibility. Two draws in the next two games would be acceptable, but given the achievements of the season to date, I expect us to win at least one of them. I’ll go 2-1 for Saturday night. Think it’ll be a super game.

Swansea have had this possible defeat coming for a while imo. The only result that matters to us really. Been a long while since either the games in hand held by either Brentford or Swansea weren’t potentially eating into our proper lead. Tonight, that period could finally be over with no damage done.

Forgive me, but unusually for a Tuesday, with subtle encouragement from the wife, I've indulged in a early evening glass of fine Scotch and all is now feeling very relaxed and well. There has been so many decent replies and contributions on this subject over the last couple of days. Just wish to thank everyone. I have to say, after many years of infrequent observation on this board, this return has been a thoroughly pleasant and enjoyable experience. Cheers indeed. Your average pinkun msg board calibre Norwich City fan never ceases to impress me with both their insight and knowledge on any particular subject, let alone on subjects even tenuously connected to the club. Also, the care shown in writing replies, remarkable. If I may draw consensus from the many replies, I would say that whilst the majority of posters would undoubtedly like to see this project happen (at some point), despite what appears a prime opportunity to carry out the work, a similar and clear majority would still be highly cautious in view of being absolutely sure to continue to 'make ends meet' financial in what clearly remains a highly uncertain time. As I said in the opening post. It was a devil's advocate question that has as intended, produced some very interesting and worthy responses. I think if I'm honest, not just on the subject, but in life in general, whilst I wouldn't consider myself gambler, I have at points no doubt been a 'caution to the wind' type of chap. Like most, I have taken some financial gambles in life. Needless to say, some paid off, some didn't. There was a degree of risk and uncertainty in many cases, but I took those decisions with a longer view of moving forward and general progress in life. It's important to say that some of that progress was in terms of financial wealth, but notably some additionally meant progress in terms of status, security or with a view towards expanding future opportunities. With that in mind, regarding the Stadium/ Main Stand, this may be an unpopular opinion, but I think for me, that even in the worst case scenario that it meant the sale of a prized piece of 'human capital', I think I would still have to have a good think about it. At some point you have to at least consider (or are likely forced anyway) to move at that abundant amount of current 'human capital' wealth (what, let's face it, 100million plus right now, has it ever been so high?) into a physical asset capital that may well last 50+ years. I think with an optimistic vision of the future, one would expect it to eventually pay off. When I say 'pay off', I don't necessarily mean in terms of clawing back the investment. As pointed out in another great reply, revenue from seating as a proportion of income has become increasing small, and we would be waiting till hell freezes over to recoup the cost in that way, I mean in terms in terms of status, future opportunities and to keep moving the club, to keep the club growing. It doesn't make business sense on the spreadsheet is what the accountants amongst you will think. Quite right too. There is no way that we are going get that money back in the next 5 years, and not from bums on seats regardless. Without some sort of incredible unforeseen success on the pitch or something or some other miracle source of income we are taking a financial gamble. That doesn't make sense in terms of risk is what the insurance folk amongst you will think. Crikey, we are still in the midst of the biggest crisis the country has faced since WW2 and you want to expand a stadium(?!). We don't even know if, when, how, in what capacity, in what numbers any fans will returns and yet you want to space for 7k or so more(?!). However, project sponsors or project managers amongst you may take a different view. When building a business case for any project one is is not looking any single aspect and whether on the surface wholly positive or negative. The business case looks at the future benefits of the project as a whole. The benefits in this case are not likely be financial for a good period of time (if indeed, ever), so you have to build your business case looking at different factors. I mentioned in the opening post that the reason I was raising at this time was because it appeared an opportune moment without fans in the stadium. This is a business case factor. Without the usual losses incurred and without effectively losing out to our competition who are also currently handicapped in this manner, it would seem a great time to do it (that's assuming of course, that plans could be completed expediently). The status of the club is another factor. I have no doubt that Norwich are now easily within the top 25 supported clubs in the land. Their international following clearly continues to increase due to DF's period of relative success and the also the terrific foreign players that ply their trade here currently. We surely have a decent clutch of Finnish supporters right now, I can tell you that from YouTube comments on matches alone. We are very easy on the eye in terms of playing style (well, Pep thinks so) and I see the club continually winning plaudits from neutral admirers for the outstandingly well run organisational structure. I don't think many of us would disagree with that currently. Though the stadium/ Main stand particularly, could not be described as poor by any means (bias me here, in fact still finds it rather pleasant), I have been to many stadiums that are clearly superior in terms of both capacity and facilities. Taking off the old yellow and green tinted glasses, there is definitely more than 25 of them in the land and we are slowly falling down this particular status ladder. Realistically, it's time to upgrade the Main Stand and move us forward. All other aspects of the club have moved forward in recent years. Shiny new scoreboard aside, the stadium really hasn't. When I see that 1980's single tier stand on any televised match, I can't switch off the part of my brain that is saying 'wow, in this day and age, doesn't it all look rather quaint'. For me, it doesn't send the right message in terms of marketing the club or attracting sponsors or investment any longer. It's not a bad old stand in essence, indeed, I've had some great times in there, but I simply believe we are bigger than that now and it's time to seriously move this matter on. I guess that's another factor in the business case, gaining security via attracting future sponsorship and investment. I'm sure there are more positive beneficial factor's other than financial, indeed, I would encourage folks to list them, however I've run out of time here. With all of that said however, I can't pretend that there is not a great deal of 'heart' in debating for speedy development of the Main Stand. Perhaps those who make their cases focussing primarily on the pocket or the risk to future operations can see it with a degree more sobriety than me (certainly right now 😉). It's that giddy little lad inside that is still marching down Riverside Road amongst the crowds whilst holding his Dad's hand and gazing up at those towering floodlights ahead. That unique match day excitement growing as we get swept along towards the ground. He is still longing to repeat the experience once again, but maybe with a huge shiny new stand that dominates the skyline and catches your eye from the train station and beyond. Something we could all be proud of. Something that could perhaps hold in the noise of matchdays to come. Thanks again folks.

I believe that was from YouTube and this recently uploaded vid by the wonderful 'lost norwich'

I think your initial estimate is right and these days likely nearer 40mill. So for ease, in scruffy builder quote form “it’ll cost you a Buendia, guvnor”

What’s the cost do we think? 20-30million maybe? Or is it more? I think you’d have to go for something that can handle decent large scale events too (darts, consumer shows, etc) As I said, a real ‘future proofer’ Im thinking glass frontage, attractive curved infills some nice visible livery facing the City. Great lighting. Perhaps an access tunnel underneath for coaches to deliver the players along the old Carrow Rd.

Terrific concise reply👏🏻 Made a better case than me in so many less words. Just to say the window for this chance is still open for me, which is why I raise the topic (I’m sure the board read this forum regularly😉) When we eventually do ALL go back, how many of us would be super excited to rock up into a 35k capacity with a new state of the art main stand(?).

I saw this the other day and thought I had never seen a more honest, critically non biased and down to Earth thread on that forum. The natural combative nature and banter almost entirely diminished by the reality of where they are now. I sometimes find a myself lulled into a bit of pity for the 70% ordinary football supporter that follows them, I’m sure we have much in common, but then I snap back to reality remembering the 30% waving notes when Evans bought the club and also having a go at Oliveira getting his face stamped on by Mings and my demeanour hardens.

Like that and agree, it is very likely going to be an inevitable gamble at some point. (Why not now?) I have to say also, given that as you quite rightly pointed out, no other club has been brave (or arguably stupid😉) enough to embark on expansion projects in the last year or so, it would personally make me slightly excited and possibly somewhat proud to think NCFC once again had the immense vision to do things differently.

I think part of what I’m saying, Hogesar, is that whilst I agree, it would have looked like sheer insanity at the start of the season, a massive amount of financial insecurity is likely about to be removed. Therefore now is maybe the first moment to push ahead full speed. I also agree, there is a massive risk in in the investment should we end up with emphatic relegation again (assuming promotion) in that it may upset fans. One feels though somehow that’s not going to be the case this time. I think we are stronger and better equipped at base now.

Respect that. Admittedly, I almost check myself for even thinking about it at this point in time when all stadiums are empty and who knows what the long term impact on numbers will be. Despite all that though, there’s a little voice continually whispering “fortune favours the brave” and hence, had to share it.

Another nice reply, cheers, Upo👍🏻 All I’d say there is that we seem to have a fairly sound production line of ‘human capital’ in place. It also seems that our policy regarding this is pretty much set in stone. Whatever happens, it seems the club will intentionally avoid anymore ‘RVW’ or ‘Naismith’ type scenarios going forward. That is simply not the way we are going to do business anymore (Although one could cheekily argue, 15-20 mill on Skipp might seem a credible investment right now, though let’s face it, Spurs would never sell him). Those things being the case, surely we may as well pour any ‘surplus’ income into the physical capital at most opportune moment. One would argue, that moment could be right now and the window is diminishing.

No, can’t claim that. Have posted before, so some may remember me, but not since about 2012/2013. I remember seeing GP for sure.

That’s a good reply, thanks Y&G. Just interested in the comment regarding a 20 mill hole in the finances. I wonder, was that predicated on staying at this level and would effectively be negated by promotion? Also, thanks to others for comments so far. Whilst not wishing to oversteer the thread, rather than it descend into the usual debate about the form of future development of the club’s stadium (I can see others are aware of the perils of that, aware of the legacy Tom Cavendish debates), could we safely assume that the most likely action for increasing capacity is to redevelop the Main/ City Stand in the clubs existing location. I am simply asking if with promotion now very likely the club should be pushing to achieve this during Covid times(?). I think that most ‘discussion veterans’ will be well familiar with the normal secondary reason given for not getting this work done (assuming finance is the primary) is the disturbance and disruption it will cause to supporters and facilities. Surely during these strange times that secondary reason is almost invalid. Facilities wise, it’s not beyond imagination that a temporary facility for dressing rooms/ press etc could be fairly easily found or erected on another side of the ground (likely South). It strikes me that for the sake of perhaps the sale cost of a single player, whom may be inevitable sold anyway, we have a prime opportunity over the next year to get the job done without too much impact on supporter numbers. As soon as we are back in better times with a full crowd, there becomes that normal logistical nightmare of shifting everyone around, upsetting lots of loyal fans, whichever way you do it. That simply doesn’t apply to same degree right now. A three sided stadium in the Prem will also unlikely be a limiting factor or handicap for a while yet as nobody will have capacity crowds for a considerable time yet. With promotion firmly on the horizon now, one wonders if this is this perfect moment to get this done.

Hi Folks, long time regular reader, rare poster, back after a long absence🔰. Apologies if this point has been raised recently already, but surely an interesting topic during strange times: Has the club perhaps missed/ going to miss a prime opportunity to redevelop the City Stand during the ongoing Covid disruption? Let me add please, I pose the question for discussion only. I fully appreciate that on a practical level you’d have to be pretty darn ballsy in business terms to risk pouring millions into ground redevelopment in the face of complete uncertainty about if, when, how and in what capacity numbers crowds will return. Lots of theoretical ‘ifs’ also: If the finance was readily available. If board was willing to invest in the ground at this time (we know this development has been intended in the past). If the construction plans were already in place and approved. If the work could take place with no ongoing impact to fixtures played at home (pitch unaffected) Then the window of no supporters would surely be (and continues to be) an absolutely prime opportunity to carry out construction work with none-to-minimal disruption to supporters. Now, I fully appreciate the answer to those first three ‘ifs’ is likely ‘NO’ at present, however, given that we are now very likely to be promoted again, given that full crowds may not return till at least late summer (and let’s face it, likely much later), appreciating it would still take considerable bravery in investment, should the club be looking to carry out this construction work during this enforced crowd-less window? Could this be the one and only opportunity to future proof the ground for the next decade or two without affecting crowd numbers at all? As I said, devils advocate only here, realise there is still massive uncertainty in most sectors and indeed, many aspects of life. Be gentle😉👍🏻 OTBC🔰

I like it. The more publicity this old song get''s, the better. The full version is, and always will be, a ''hairs up on the back of the neck'' experience. Your version has enhanced and not diminished this.

I think it'' s bloody great personally. The current squad is the first one to have the siege mentality kind of bond since the likes of the Mackay/ Roberts/ Mulryne/ Mcveigh era of ten years ago.   The more male bonding, the better they play together in my experience. Every great team of the past (all teams) socialised together as well as worked together. Particularly important when young men are a long way from their home.   Brilliant to see newer players like Snodgrass pulled into the social scene of the club by the captain and his group of friends. I often get a warm feeling from Twitter feeds that there is a genuine affection for kind of club spirit that seems to run through the place. I would say that GH seems to be pivotal in the social scene organisation and to me this is a duty that more club captain''s should take seriously. I''m sure Snoddy, Bassong, Turner and others have absolutely no regrets about coming over here because of the good spirit. It can only help feel grounded and more at home.  It negates the chance of the Collocini situation occuring here when players are brought in and immediately maden to feel an important part of a group.     Whatever may be said about Lambert, it is fairly well known that he had a strict ''fines'' system that undoubtedly caused some great dressing room banter. The current regime and legacy players have taken this onward and upward. Like any team there will always be groups of players that naturally socialise together but I get the feeling that the overall sense of ''team'' at the club is king and they have a very real sense of identity and group as a whole.   The fact that we have not had anyone leave the club for years unless for footballing reason''s they were now surplus to requirements, speaks volumes for the club.   It would be good if a player or staff would come on here and endorse this opinion. I won''t hold my breath though. ;)

Ha haaa!! Ahhh. The fickle numpties exposed for all to see. The lesson......don''t react like a school kid. Goldfish syndrome on here is always rife but this thread is living proof. Some out there need to try and balance the last performance with at least the recent history before it and even better....the 110 years before that. We always lose at Craven Cottage in recent history and some of them actually wrote ''Hughton Out''. I would say unbelieveable......but there it is.....it actually happened. No doubt those guilty will conveniently forget this too.   Well done for digging this out.

Can''t say too much but I am in the process of making a NCFC related present for someone for a top fan for Christmas and ideally I am after the beautiful font that they use on the gates of the club.   Does anyone amongst you ''mega-fans'' know what it''s called or where I can get/ buy it. Coming up with nothing currently on font searches but perhaps it''s not unique to the club. It would just finish off the item I have to present to a tee and time is now of the essence. You''ll all know it, but here''s a reminder (apologies but only image I could find was from the dirty ''Green''un): http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbo=d&qscrl=1&rlz=1T4SUNC_enGB368GB368&biw=1311&bih=543&tbm=isch&tbnid=Wkk0DeEfp-ApuM:&imgrefurl=http://www.greenun24.co.uk/non-league/suffolk_club_s_link_with_norwich_city_1_1533963&docid=f_D1sTMIcLfI_M&imgurl=http://www.greenun24.co.uk/polopoly_fs/jb_1_ncfc_badge_carrow_1_1533954!image/3215578712.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_630/3215578712.jpg&w=630&h=883&ei=TW_MUKiqH4fV0QXju4DQDg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=312&sig=114724753069892778878&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=111&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:94&tx=42&ty=45   If anyone can help it would be most appreciated. Oh yeah & OTBC against The Lactics today!

Swansea 3 Norwich 4 was what I was about to say....honestly ;)

Has there ever been a better moment to say.........Don''t drink and post!   By the way, interesting that you think the term sheep sh*gger is even remotely as offensive as the antiquated crap that was obviously directed at Bassong today. Boring and disgusting as it is, it doesn''t quite go hand in hand with the hundred of years of historical oppression, slavery and mistreatment of various coloured races throughout human history. Go to bed and sleep it off.

Waheeeeey! The stadium debate is back. It''s a white hole again! http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=TxWN8AhNER0 

Waheeeeeyyyyyyyy! Another stadium expansion thread. It must have been at least five minutes since the last one. The white hole returns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxWN8AhNER0