Hank shoots Skyler

Agree with you pretty much on all things NCFC - but couldn’t be further from agreeing with this!

Get in!

I clicked into this thread expecting a compliment about one of the many features included with the Dacia Sandero.

Yep agreed, feels like a straight swap for Foakes and Bairstow from the start would’ve seen us there in the first test, and given ourselves a better chance in the second although that was easily the poorest overall performance. I’m not sure what the stats exactly are, but could we end the series with a 1-3 loss despite collecting more runs and more wickets? Unfortunately the fine margins haven’t gone our way!

I’m also leaning towards B-, maybe C+ + Brought in some good experienced heads, albeit aging ones, who can raise the bar behind the scenes. + Shored up the defensive line and feel like the new players will give us some ‘bite’ which was sorely missed last season + Have done what looks like some really clever business for such little spend / outgoings. Webber on a budget perhaps Webber at his best? + Feel hopeful for Sainz and Fassnacht, that at the very least they’ll give us better options out wide than last season (although that is a very low bar to breach) + We’ve still got Sara and expect him to really kick on in his second season, as well as Nunez - No out and out DM, still… - Still missing a central link between the midfield and attack, can Sara really step it up? - Barnes for Pukki for a straight swap is a downgrade, which will put more on Sargent and I’m not enthused at the idea of Idah filling in more if the first two falter - We haven’t really managed to do what we set out to do in terms of sales. Omobamidele, Aarons and Rashica still very much here. Which of course isn’t a slight at the club but it does take away from the window and has surely impeded our incomings as a result

Australia batting 😴😴😴😴 We’d have been on at least 200 runs by now. Maybe 7 wickets down but still. And maybe also Australia are going to win the series but still. We’ll always have our style of play to cling on to. We’re on top for this spell, but we need a few to fall very soon, especially if the weather is going to have a say. Definitely feels like the levelling win is slipping away… The series overall reminds me a little of when we were 20th in the prem but still getting lots of plaudits in Farke’s first prem season. ‘Best PL team in 20th ever’. Not really anywhere near as good as actually not being in a **** league position but at least something positive, right? Although probably a few more positives to take from this test series than Norwich 19/20. Just so many ‘what ifs’…

I know it’s nice to dream and hold on to something for one of our players, and don’t want to knock the idea of hoping he’ll come good because clearly we all very much want that, but I think it’s wishful thinking to think that a single scored penalty would somehow have changed his entire trajectory as a player. Every player misses penalties. Every player has set backs. Yes Farke was harsh on him. But this is the same manager who consistently got the best out of our youngsters, it was probably his best trait. Tzolis was far from finished at the point of discipline but he clearly didn’t react the right way behind the scenes. And then he came back last season and looked physically unfit for even the lower level - is that really all because he missed a penalty? It’s a similar thing with the RvW penalty that never was, I’m 100% sure that he still would’ve flopped regardless of Snodgrass snatching the ball. If a player’s mentality is so poor to just keel over after every minor setback, then it’s always going to happen at some point. If the penalty had gone the way you want they’d have just been another inconvenience a week or two later that would’ve become their new ‘what if’ moment. Sorry but he’s just been nowhere near good enough, that’s it, no feelings of ‘what if’ from me whatsoever, but of course I hope all parties can put that right this season!

I personally think we just have two different definitions here. You think I mean quantity, I’m talking quality. When I say drying up, I’m talking about our production of the highest quality players. We managed that with 1 superstar in Maddison, then 4 great players during Farke’s second season and the first PL campaign. But since then we’ve just had one come through in Omobamidele and even then he’s flagged a lot after last season. Our selling position as a club has also weakened no end since that peak. So yes there may be 4/5 youngsters on the cusp of playing, but none of them bring the kind of pedigree we need to really kick on IMO. Selling players like Mumba for £1 million will do very little in terms of funding further progression. Hopefully by the end of the season there is a clear picture (in a good way) about the players you mention.

Sorry - where did I say 'every season'? Far from. The fact is we've only had Omobamidele come through with the same kind of hype across the past 4-5 years. And even with him his form was really patchy last season and we now can't seem to shift him on. All I've been trying to say is that there has been a drop off. You said it is the 'polar opposite' of drying up, but are now saying that we can't expect to recreate those successes? Which is it?! And on the Godfrey / Mumba comparison, why would I not compare the academy prospects? That's the whole point to show the drop off! Are there other players in the academy who would make a fairer comparison with Godfrey and Cantwell? There may well prove to be, but we haven't seen them just yet! And the one who appeared next in line to do it has now left. Also before Godfrey / Cantwell went on to do that in the champs and PL, with Norwich by the way, Godfrey was on loan at Shrewsbury town and Cantwell at Fortuna Sittard but we stuck with them! Both at clubs at a pretty similar level to Plymouth, if not lower. But now our best prospects aren't even seen as good enough for a proper go in the team, or to generate more than £1 mil. Its just a drop off isn't it? It's okay, you probably won't go to hell if you acknowledged it too...

'The polar opposite of drying up'... that would surely mean the academy has been continuously improving over the past few seasons and is now in a much better position now than ever before? Come on now! I'm not even sure if you believe what you're writing sometimes! I'm not saying we don't have any prospects, clearly we do, but I think its pretty fair to say that we peaked during Farke's second season when we had Aarons, Godfrey, Cantwell, Lewis all as academy players coming through to the first team, and we've struggled to recreate that success since. Alright we still have Gibbs, Idah, Aarons and Omobamidele in and around the first team but the levels individually and on the whole have dropped off so much. And our seemingly next brightest academy prospect gets sold for £1 million. That is a far cry from 3-4 years ago. You also mention that Fisher is highly rated and expected around the first team, but that's exactly what Wagner said about Mumba a month ago and now he's left! I'll believe it when it happens, and I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong and for some of these players to come in and raise the bar of the first team, and reverse the downwards trend the club is very clearly on! But even if that does eventually happen, I don't think we need to plug our ears pretend like there hasn't been a drop off in the academy's successes over the past couple of seasons. Or even worse, pretend like its thriving more than ever before...

Aren’t we also trying to sell Aarons?

But it is drying up isn't it? If he is / was the academies brightest prospect then the sale now does kind of indicate my overall feelings for the decline in our model. As I said, we are finding player sales further and further up the conveyor belt rather than selling them ready made after breaking through to the team at the peak of their value. A few seasons ago several players from our academy broke through to the first team and were valued £20-£30 million at their peaks. And yes maybe Mumba never would've got close to that, but for £1 million I'd rather we take the chance and hope he does - we could've still got £1 million for him in January if things weren't working out... Agreed RE Cantwell!

It was 5 mins of searching! So you were saying that Mumba was 'clearly set for a future role'... in the academy? Its not some massive 'gotcha' by the way, I'm just surprised you don't find it a tad disappointing because all of our expectations were aligned a week ago on the subject. And again, I do accept the transfer, clearly - its happened now - I'm just intrigued by posters speaking candidly as if the sale was always in the cards to them, and not actually a bit unexpected. I agree a loan would've 100% made the most sense, but then that brings into discussion Mumba's own desires - perhaps he wanted to leave in which case we didn't really have much choice. But again, I'd still feel a bit disappointed if that is the case!

So how much did you see him play to decide he was a player other academies could be 'lucky to pick up every 3-4 years'? And again, if I thought he was THAT good, I would certainly feel a bit disappointed in selling as we now have done... It's perfectly okay Hoggy, you can do it! Its not to say you know better than the manager or the club, but just to acknowledge that the reality didn't stack up with your own personal hopes for the player...

You guys all said it, not me! @hogesar @Branston Pickle @TheGunnShow @BigFish I understand that now the transfer has happened, you are happy to get behind it because the club has made the decision and ultimately that trumps all as supporters and we have to respect the underlying professional knowledge behind the transfer which we are a million miles away from. But at the same time, its clear that you all had similar expectations to what I did for Mumba's potential in the team, and I think its okay to feel a bit disappointed if it transpires that your expectation and the reality differ significantly. Perhaps you are all better supporters than me, willing to set aside all of your expectations at the drop of a hat, as soon as the club does something which goes against the grain of your understanding. And fair play if so, I just find it more difficult. It's just very anti-climactic that a player to me who has been spoke about in such a high regard, probably the best youngster we've had out on loan in recent seasons, is now being sold for a very small fee without ever being given the proper chance in the first team that we all wanted to see. I think its okay to admit that personally, without it being a great attack on the club either, hell you guys are entitled to feel bummed out from time to time too!

To be honest guys, the prospect of Mumba being brought into the fold this season was an exciting one, he could've caused absolute carnage down a flank. Up until last week, he was clearly set for a role here. We would be lucky to get more than one player like Mumba through our academy every 3-4 years.

It would be interesting to know how many of those staunchly defending the sale would've happily accepted £1 million for Mumba before any rumour of a potential sale had surfaced. I can't understand why anyone would be happier with selling rather than giving the lad a go this season. If he flops for 6 months and we sell in January, we'd still get a pretty similar fee - so where was the risk in keeping him around for a little longer?! It's far from the end of the world - clearly - but this sale just doesn't feel consistent with our model in previous seasons. The actual impact on the team probably isn't a big one, but there is an underlying acknowledgement behind it that we are struggling to generate income and don't have a good position with any of our main 'saleable' assets. A stark contrast to seasons before where we've sold players at the peak of their value as well as retaining other prospects to continue to improve at the club. I just don't see us selling a player such as Mumba, after the loan spell he just had, being sold like this a couple of seasons ago. It's just a little bit demoralising isn't it? Sorry!

Gutted - I had £20 on us to win the ashes after we went 0-2 down, actually thought we were going to do it as well. Really unjust for the most dominant game from either team to be called off like this.

True, lots of young players have flopped and been sold off when it was clear they weren’t up to standard, but I can’t think of many that were sold when they were clearly on the cusp of breaching into the first team after a very successful loan in the previous season! It doesn’t feel like the best time to sell him to me, perhaps after this season or in 6 months time if it became clear it wasn’t working. At which point we’d no doubt still be able to land a pretty a similar fee…

Let’s skittle them all out now please 🤣

Hard to disagree, I’ve not read all the way through this thread but finding it hard to be positive about it at all. I think the most depressing thing for me is not necessarily the move away from technical players you mention, but the move away from selling ready made players at the peak of their value, moving further and further up our player development conveyor belt. It clearly shows just how far our model has dropped off in the past couple of seasons. We are becoming more and more desperate. In the past 5 or 6 years we’ve got great value from players like the Murphy twins, Maddison, Godfrey, Lewis and Buendia (that one still makes me sad mind), most of whom probably aren’t worth close to as much as we got for them back then, and for others like Maddison it was obvious he had outgrown the club completely so we did what was best for all parties and what was needed for us at the time as well in terms of funding a rebuild. We ended up better for it. I would ask if selling Mumba now is really getting the best value for him and the best for the club’s development too? What would we have said if we’d sold Maddison after his loan to Aberdeen for maybe a couple of £mil profit? It’s not even close to the right time for Muma IMO, and even if he didn’t kick on, what is the risk here? The fee of £1 million does so little in terms of bolstering our finances. We’re also seeing similar with Aarons and Omobamidele and we’re likely going to end up accepting fees of close to 50% of what their value has been in the past couple of seasons. Turning down £25 mil for Omobamidele in January, good one Webber! If that offer was true or not (it surely wasn’t he was bang out of form last season) it’s still going to be egg on Webber’s face if we accept a much lower one this season. The Mumba sale at this moment in time feels like we’re a contestant on Deal or no deal accepting an offer of like £1,000 after the first round of box opening, when there’s still many good potential prizes out there! Yes we’ve banked a small amount of income, but what can we do with it really, and what have we potentially missed out on as a result? Best case scenario - he could establish himself here, and for a player of his age with his technical ability and overall versatility on both wings, that could easily see a dramatic rise in his value as well as adding something to the team we pretty desperately need. Worst case scenario - he struggles, in which case we would probably still be able to get a similar fee to what we are now in January or at the end of the season, maybe a few £100k less. I guess he could also have a career ending injury but I don’t really think that should be considered in our decision making… To me with the risk and reward it’s a no brainer to keep him in the team. There’s little to no risk in keeping him. And I’m sure that even if the posters sticking up for the transfer now were offered this deal a week ago they’d all have opted for ‘let’s see what he can do this season’ rather than the paltry sum we are getting now. I don’t care that we may have given him this chance and it just didn’t work out for us or him, but I do care that we now aren’t giving ourselves a chance to ever find out. For £1 million! If we have good incomings lined up to address our lack of depth at right back and give some options on the wing as well, then I guess fair enough, but for what outlay would all of that need to be? And I’d still probably be in the camp of wishing we’d kept him around the squad or, if he doesn’t have a place, loaning him out again and looking to extend his contract for another season or two. Maybe he just really wanted to leave, but that brings with it another set of pretty depressing thoughts too…

I understand and can agree with all of that (although I stand by what I’d previously said with Australia also just as guilty of really poor spells). But the following is what you also said earlier in the thread; ‘Christ. Amazing how quickly this team has been found out. We'll be lucky to win a test.’ That does not read to me like ‘we’re an excellent team just need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot’… but I’m happy to accept your most recent comments as your new and much improved opinion! 🤣

Pretty nuts how many people were losing it after a couple of disappointing spells during the start of the series. After the last 3 days I'd say we've been the better of the two teams throughout the series up to now. Such a pity we couldn't nick the first game as we'd be on the cusp of victory by now... Will be so disappointing if this test gets rained off from a result after such a dominant display!

Sorry but he should be making at least 350 there

FFS Crawley. He was well set then, just can't help himself can he?!