It's Character Forming

It is defo a concern.  Looking back when we came up from the Champ we had massive team spirit which meant we fought for points and often came back to win games.  We made a lot of changes to the squad when we started in the PL but managed to keep that team spirit together.   After our first season in the PL again we made radical changes to the squad but it still seemed to work.  Players like Basso who came in were highly motivated.   This season is the first time I have felt we''ve lost that team spirit which served us so well.  Players like Fer, who can be great on his day but sometimes goes missing.  The loss of Holt who you could always rely on to have a real go (even last season when many on here had a go at him).  Not enough players who are willing to scrap for it when the game is going against us.   If we fail to get over the line and survive, I think this will be a major part of our downfall.

I have a feeling these were the bottom 5 back last November when Ricardo did his relegation predictions as being 3 from those 5 teams.  Am I right ?

I''ve kept an eye on this site since it was mentioned a few weeks back :   https://www.bsports.com/projectedtablesepl   It gives projected bottom 6 points (with risk of relegation in brackets) as : WBA - 39 (12%) City - 36 (35%) Sunderland - 35 (38%) (presumably saved by GD) Palace  - 35 (40%) Cardiff - 32 (77%) Fulham - 32 (75%)   So the site predicts 36 points as guaranteeing safety which feels right and I think 36/37 points is probably about where City will end up.  Certainly going to be squeaky bum time ! A 35% risk of relegation, call it one in three, also feels about right.  A win on Saturday though and the risk level for us will drop.   I much prefer looking at sites like this to random pundits like Merson giving vent to their prejudices, which I heard called BOGSAT yesterday or Bunch of Guys Sat Around Tables as a method of analysing information.

[quote user="The Messiah"]I am the Messiah! I am not coming back because I was never at NCFC.[/quote]   At last - a bit of common sense on this MB.

[quote user="YellowNets1901"]Without wishing to turn this into a Hughton Out thread. IF we get enough points to stay up, I see little point in Hughton being here next season and stingily doubt he will be. Imagine we lose our first two games with him in charge next season. He''s under pressure again and it''ll keep going on and on like that until he''s finally relieved of his duties here. He''s a Championship manager, in my opinion. Punching way above his weight. My predictions re points from remaining games: Sunderland (H) - 3 Swansea (A) - 0 West Brom (H) - 1 Fulham (A) - 0 Liverpool (H) - 0 Man Utd (A) - 0 Chelsea (A) - 0 Arsenal (H) - 0 Finishing on 33 points. Likely relegation.[/quote]   I don''t think anyone would be surprised if Hughton goes in the summer even if we stay up.    For the final 8 games, if we only get 4 points I would agree we''ll probably get relegated.  But "if" is the key question.  So far we''ve managed a point per game on average, if we can maintain that average we''ll have 37 points and very likely be safe. And my guess is that''s about where we will end up.   Saturday is certainly crucial because 3 points will push us up the table and give an injection of optimism in the squad.  Swansea and WBA are both in poor form so we could win or draw both of those games.  And it''s certainly pessimistic to assume we''ll get nothing from the final 5 games.    This is the business end of the season, no doubt about it.  Will we slump into the drop zone as YN1901 expects, or will we continue to flirt with it but do just enough to scrape to safety ?  My guess is the latter and actually I think we''ll be safe going into the final game, but the risk of relegation is still significant IMO and Saturday is the most important game of the season so far.

Where is the evidence for the idea that Malky demanded first team football and was let go as a result ?   The story as I heard it at the time was that he was entitled to a big bonus in the summer so the club agreed a quick deal to sell him to Coventry having decided he wasn''t quick enough for the Prem (whether it was Worthy or tbe Board or a combination that made the decision I'';m not sure but either way it was made without reference to Malky).  Malky found this out while he was away with the Scotland team; when he came back he managed to secure a better deal with West Ham.   In hindsight we made two huge mistakes in 2004 - letting Malky go without making sure we had a better pair of CBs for the Prem season and starting the Prem season without a decent regular striker.  IMO if we had kept Malky we would probably have survived but there''s no way to know.   Anyway, back to Steve Clarke, anyone holding their breath ?

[quote user="Matt Juler"]Letting the ball go out for a defensive throw-in when there''s no pressure, only to then give it straight away from the resultant throw-in. [/quote]   Yes that one drives me nuts.   Almost as bad is a player who could play it upfield but passes back to the goalie who is under pressure so hoofs it upfield from further back.   A pet hate for me is teams who timewaste so early in the game now.  in January I watched the whole of West Brom''s game against Southampton on TV, and West Brom would have settled for a point from the start and were time-wasting (at 0-0) even before half-time.  It made for a very dull game.  Well into the second half Southampton finally scored and West Brom sprang into life and created a good number of chances at the death - with some half-decent finishing they''d have got a point, but it made you wonder why they didn''t try a bit of attacking earlier on.

Checking the FFP rules this season in the Prem they are :   Clubs can''t lose more than £105m over 3 seasons.   Clubs can''t lose more than £15m over 3 seasons unless the owner injects equity.   Also wages over £52m can only go up by £4m per season plus any amount from "new commercial deals"   So I hope that this will start to restrict clubs in future like West Ham or QPR just getting a bundle of cash from a new owner.  £105m over 3 seasons is a lot though.  And the £52m limit can be avoided like Man City did by their owner''s company signing up to a massive sponsorship deal.  FFP is better than nothing for us but not a panacea.

I can''t relate to the people saying this is a poor Prem season.  It''s disappointing for City, we''d have hoped at the start to be at least 6 points better off by now and looking forward to the run-in without too many worries.  The same goes for most of the bottom 10.  But that doesn''t mean it''s a bad season for the league, actually it''s a lot more competitive and exciting at both ends than normal. At the bottom, as some have pointed out, you don''t have a hopeless team already cut adrift at the bottom.  Any team that wins a couple in a row would get out of the bottom 3.  And every team from 12th downwards are very much in the relegation scrap although it''s the bottom 6 who are most at risk.   At the top, with Man U continuing to misfire and effectively out of the title race for the first time since forever, it is open and 4 teams realistically could win it.  When was the last time there were 4 title contenders at this point of the season with none of them being Man U ?  I can''t remember and I think it''s great.  OK those four contenders all have mixed records but that''s what you''d expect.  If any one of them was doing consistently very well, they''d be out on front on their own.    I''d much rather have this sort of season - with City doing better, natch, but that''s all - than the tedium of another Man U cruise to the title or a two-horse race between Man U and one other.   I can see this being one of the BEST Prem seasons ever, for the neutrals.

Yes I mean just compare Derby when he managed them, they''ve been on a real slide since he left.

I''m sure that comes as a surprise to life forms on the moons of Jupiter Waveney but won''t be a shock to many on here Have you ever heard of the expression "best to have another string for your bow?"

Thorpe - I''ve just checked the Championship table and I don''t think you''re going to make the playoffs anyway, I''m glad to say, but you''re right that it is massive for you to get behind your team this weekend to have any chance.    I see you got well beaten by Wigan at home - just a shame Holty not still there to rub it in a bit, but it puts a bit of perspective on it.

We are getting to tbe business end of the season and this really is a 6-pointer for once.    A win and we''re close to safety, a defeat and we''re really in trouble, a draw is a bad result for us and a good result for them, so it''s not really a must-win, but it''s a game we really could do with winning.

Thorpe End, when did you first start supporting 1p5wich?

I also liked the comment on another thread pointing out Southampton''s recent home defeats have included Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs - the implication being you can''t read much into those because you''d expect them to lose to those sorts of teams.  Just like we lost at home to Man City and Spurs I suppose....

Looks like both teams will lose.

It would be great to have games against Prem clubs in the E Mids so got to be Leicester, Forest and Derby.   I hope 1p5wich never get promoted again, ever TBH.

[quote user="Radders"]I think the above Information is incorrect. Southampton FC never went into administration, the holding company that owned it did, hence the club was bought lock stock and barrel by Markus Liebherr. The only real debt was the stadium, which he bought. any other debt Southampton FC owned, was paid in full.[/quote]   Don''t know about the debt payment situation, but I do remember the FA decided the holding company and the operating company were so closely linked that the 10 point penalty should still apply.   Anyway the administration is just a side issue now.  The key point is that they have been subsidised since then by a rich owner, which hasn''t applied to City over the same period.  Which is why they have significantly better players in their squad.

The two main posters who constantly have a go at "plastic" fans are clearly not City fans at all, but simple trolls (and pretty rubbish ones at that).   I do like the different perspectives we get from around the world - there used to be a guy from Hungary who posted, often with a lot of sense, or the guy from West Cork.  There are some like Houston Canary who I disagree with most of the time, but I don''t doubt he is a fan of Norwich City and that''s the important thing in the end.

Looking at recent relegated teams.  QPR are 4th, Reading and Wigan are 6/7th.  Don''t these all have rich owners though ?  And even so, they are only managing the playoffs at the moment, just outside for Wigan.   From the year before, Bolton and Blackburn are both mid-table in the Championship while Wolves went straight down the trapdoor to League 1.   So for me the big concern about relegation is that we have no external funding, and would be relying on the parachute payments which are looking pretty small now relative to our current wage bill.  Do we have contracts with relegation clauses in them for some of our more recent signings ?  I worry that we don''t.   So you could have a shake-out where we have to let go a lot of recent signings like RVW, Fer, Hooper cheap because we can''t afford their salaries, so you''re left with a very patchy squad.  I can easily see it being a repeat of the 95 relegation.

Does put it into perspective. I''ve always felt he''d have been better 3rd choice than Elmander(well, after seeing El play a few times) Havin said that before beating the scum on Sat, Boro had gone 8 games without scoring. Not the best record for a striker? In the Champ

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]What I dont understand is why we dont play quick counter-attacking football when we have the players to do it. Both Olsson and Redmond have serious pace. Play Olsson at left midfield and Redmond at right midfield we have two players who can break at pace and if not find the net themselves, play in RvW, which, as said on another thread is his main strength. If Hughton wants a resiliant well drilled defensive unit, then thats fine, have a a defensive unit (back four and central three) who soak up play, but release the ball as soon as it is won to the two players capable of exploiting the space behind their defence, who have presumably pushed up. I cant imagine there would be too many defenders who would fancy a race with Olsson or Redmond, but at the moment our wingers are too shacked by defensive responsibility. When we have a player like Redmond in particular, not trying to get him running in one on one outpacing the defenders seems madness, it seems the obvious way to capitalise on the defensive solidity you hope to achieve, whilst also worrying the defence about pushing up, thus taking some pressure off our own defence. But Hughton seems to hope that the ball will go in on its own as long as the back door is shut. Redmond could be sensational if used properly, but we make him ineffective for the opposition without them having to[/quote]   This is a puzzle for me too.  It''s obviously a strength of Lambert - that first year back in the Prem we scored a lot of goals by either quick counter-attacks (e.g. both goals at WBA away) or by winning the ball in the opposition''s final third and mounting a quick attack (e.g. both goals in the win at Spurs). It still works for Lambert, witness Villa''s 3rd and 4th against us.  Of course, the weakness is that it works best when the other side commit a lot of players to the attack and leave themselves open to the counter.  Hence Villa do well away from home but less well at home (unless they are fortunate that Benteke scores a great goal and then gets a second given despite a blatant foul, forcing the away side to commit more to the attack...).   So is the answer that there''s only so much flexibility you can achieve in coaching and if you focus on the rapid counter-attack, that limits the time you can spend coaching a more measured approach ?

  Err... abuse probably works better if it makes even a bit of sense Thorpe "End".  It''s a bit desperate when you can''t even manage a proper insult.   I''ve just checked the BBC website and I see your team lost again, at ''Boro (who hadn''t scored forever, apparently, before Saturday).  So I can understand why you''ve nothing better to do but come on a forum for City fans.  I wish you''d get bored and get lost.  

"this content is currently unavailable"   But I think I know what you mean.

Up is my bet.