Paulo_M

I''m not worried about this in the slightest....AyalaAyala is a talented guy, but at his stage in his career he needs game time. It''s likely that Bennet & Turner will be the main CB''s. We then have Ward and potentially Russel Martin ahead of Ayala. We then also have Barnett has 4th/5th choice.I know many will think that Ayala should be ahead of Ward, but even as 3rd choice he wouldn''t get much time on the pitch. As a 4th choice he''ll have even less time  (note that personally think Ward gets a lot of unjustified stick... yes he made mistakes last season, but so did all our CB''s including Ayala).As such, sending him out will hopefully improve his game... we''ll benefit either by having an improved player season after next or then selling him at a profit... if he sits in the reserves he''s not going to rise in value at all.VaughanAgain, he''s a talent, but has big big injury issues. Sending him out on loan or selling him means another club takes the risk on him rather than us. He may work out for the new club, but then again it may not. If we send him out on loan and he succeeds, again like Ayala that''s a longer term benefit to us. I think it''s also likely we''ll play with 1 up front next season due to our midfield options, so I expect Holt & Morison to be ahead of him even if he stays.I also expect he''s on big money compared to the rest of the squad, so this may free up funds for another player.

I like Naughton, but we''ve already got 2 RB''s at the club that will either start or be on the bench... so don''t need another one of his quality... in my opinion LB is much more of a priority.

[quote user="pete"]... still need new RB unless Whittaker can step up... [/quote] I don''t get the Whittaker negativity... we didn''t buy him to sit in the reserves - pretty obvious he''ll either start or be on the bench when fit. As such we''ve got him at Martin fighting it out for 1st choice of RB.I guess we played Bennett there on Saturday to 1) give him some game time & 2) to test out if he could cover if worst case (i.e. tactical change midway through a game due to a sending off or if we are chasing a game & take off a defender to be more attacking etc.). I wouldn''t read too much into it.I agree we need a LB though... I love Lappin, but would be a worry if Tierney got another injury.

Yes, we will score enough goals...We scored for fun since the start of last season.The players that can score goals that we didn''t have back at the start of last season:- Snodgrass- Butterfield- Howson- Vaughan (i.e. he was injured)I also expect Bennett to chip in more than last season. Tierney is of course more attacking than Drury was, so it''s likely he''ll create more chances. Outside of the players already mentioned, we also have Holt, Morison, Pilks, Wes, Jackson & Chris Martin. The only attacking player we''ve lost is Wilbers. Scoring will not be a problem.

[quote user="Canaries Utd"]Lappin, Crofts & Fox not premiership qualityAdeyemi and Smith are on trialSurman, Pilkington, Bennett, Howson the futureHoolahan time is against himJohnson (i''m on the fence)Butterfield?I would love Snodgrass.[/quote]Fox not premiership quality?? He came 3rd in the Player of the Season awards last year!

Thanks for the positive comments... nice to see that there''s fans out there with a similar outlook!I think the point Son Ova Gunn made is an interesting one... that basically if we didn''t have fans with extreme expectations there would, in a way, be less pressure to succeed. Also, what Lake district said is spot on too... there are people in this world that want to complain & will never be happy. It reminds me of the miserable guys that sit behind me... they *still* think Ruddy is "no Fraiser Forster" :)As for lappinitup''s comment - lol, nope, not a binner! Far from it (season ticket holder for 20 years, even was a match day mascot back in the day!).

... about the expectation levels of some of our fans! I think the unreasonably high expectations will only lead to disappointment this season (already seeing it this on this message board!).What expectations am I talking about? Here are a few examples, along with why I think some fans need to relax..."Why is it so quiet on the transfer front?"Well, first off, it hasn''t been quiet. We''ve signed 2 players... & resolved the issue with Holt. We''ve also sorted out new contracts for others. Also, CH hasn''t been in the job long & the Euro''s will have impacted things. We still have over a month until the window closes... plenty of time."Why aren''t we spending the cash? Southampton have spent £7m on Jay Rod etc."I find it weird how fans aren''t happy with 2 freebie signings, especially when transfer fees for British players are loopy at the mo''... would the same fans be happy if we spent say £3m each on those? Would they make them better signings? I would prefer to get a player on the cheap than spend £7m on someone unproven like Jay Rod."We need to strengthen in all areas".I see some expect us to sign players in almost every position. These fans seem to forget that we have 10 players on our books that weren''t here this time last year. That level of recruitment simply can''t continue.The main thing people seem to forget is that we had certain players were either long term injured or brought in during Jan... and as such we haven''t seen the current squad from the start of the season. For example, instead of Barnett/De Laet at CB, for the start of next season we have Ayala/Bennett... so already we have a stronger CB pairing compared to the beginning of last season. "Whittaker is not good enough/not exciting signing"Really? The long term RB for Rangers isn''t good enough for us? Have you seen him play regularly? We should be delighted that we are in a position where we can sign these sorts of players.... especially on a freebie and in a position we really needed to strengthen. "We should sign [unrealistic target]"I see suggestions like Defoe & Owen and it just makes me chuckle. Don''t get me wrong, I would love it if that calibre of player signed, but we shouldn''t expect it. Also they would be a total luxury - do you really think they''d be thinking "wow, Norwich - would love it play for them!". I would much prefer up and coming players that want to prove themselves.Also, our biggest issue with attracting "stars" is our wage budget... unlike other clubs, we are being run professionally and as such we are living in our means... signing someone like Owen would destroy our wage structure, which would either mean player unrest or needing to up every player wage... which in turn would mean we would be absolutely screwed if we got relegated. It would be a massive gamble. "We should sign players that are better than what we have"I agree with this to an extent, but how do we know if a player is/is not better than what we have? Also, having 2 players of similar quality competing for the same position would mean you''d get the best out of them... if we had 2 players of vastly different qualities then there''s less desire for either to perform (i.e. the "star" player will always get picked, even if they can''t be bothered). "Our strikers aren''t good enough"Nonsense... those thinking Morison is rubbish are fools... scoring 1 in 3 games is impressive in the prem league. We scored for fun last season and though the forward players are the "exciting" ones to sign, it''s simply not a priority in my eyes (unless we sell Vaughan, Jackson or Martin).--So what are my expectations? Next season will be tougher - it''s a stronger league (no club with Wolves/Blackburn like issues by the looks of it, Reading will splash the cash, QPR will be stronger), but we are already stronger than the start of last season. A great season for me will be the same again - safely mid table... though I would take 4th from bottom now.In terms of signings, we *need* a LB... and that''s about it (unless other players leave)... I think we could do with a really good defensive midfielder, someone as backup for Pilks/Bennett and someone with experience at the back (though maybe thats the new LB), but I don''t think we need it for day one... much better to save money for January incase we get long term injuries (i.e. if Holt & Morison got injured long term, then we would need a big striker... though we don''t *need* another one as it stands).Some will say I''m not ambitious, but I don''t think a club our size can expect much more than establishing themselves in the Prem league (unless we are taken over by a billionaire)... just look at the likes of Stoke, Villa, West Brom etc... I think we need a few years of consolidation and stability - survive for a couple more seasons and then we should start dreaming of Europe :)

I said this in the "Still a striker/forward light" thread, but I personally don''t think we need a striker as we didn''t have problem scoring goals last season... remember we signed 2 strikers last summer and they are both still on our books. if Vaughan is injured still or Chris Martin is sold, then only at that point should we bring someone in.Priorities for me are:LB - obviously no cover here & question marks about tierneys fitnessDM - I feel this is where we should spend big... main reason we had defensive probs last season imho is that we don''t have a Makelele type playerWings - no cover for Pilks/BennettMy other priority was AM as fealt we need competition for Wes, but looks like Butterfield is that man. Personally don''t think we need a CB - Ayala & Bennett will be like new signings for us. If one of our CBs left (e.g. Barnett), I''d like to see us to spend money & replace with better than what we have, but on the flip side I''d be happy to go with what we''ve got.

[quote user="colneycanary"]Matt Jarvis from wolves. Yes he would cost quite a bit. But we haven''t spent much so far on the deals weve done so far.[/quote]Jarvis  is a winger and not a striker, but I''d love him here. Quality player. Though transfer fee & wages would be out of reach... he''d also be a luxery considering we have Pilks (as per my previous post, I think we need a winger, but more as back up).

I always find it weird that many of our fans think we need a new striker... we scored goals for fun last year and already have one of the top scorers at the club.We have Holt, Morison, Vaughan, Jackson and Chris Martin on the books. We only need another one if one of those goes or is injured long term. Granted theres question marks over Vaughans fitness and whether Martin (and to an extent Jackson) can cut it, but while they are at the club I can''t see us getting yet another striker it. Also, with the quality of our midfield and the "fashion" of no strikers ala Spain, CH may only play 1 up front next season as far as we know.The position we *need* to strengthen is left back. Then possibly defensive midfield (personally think the lack if a makelele type was a big part of our defensive issues last year) and then wings (no cover for Pilks/Bennet at the mo''). Others will argue that we need a CB, but personally don''t think we do (Ayala & Bennett will be like a new signings)... but would sign another quality CB before a striker.

[quote user="Wiz"][quote user="Paulo_M"]£6m is a massive amount for him and we need to bite any clubs hand off if they offer any where near that...This is the last time we''d be able to get a good fee for Holt. Imagine if he signed a 3 year contract with us today, but then wanted to move on in a couple of seasons... no way would we get anywhere near £6m for him. Also his price will never be higher... Holty has been amazing for us, but we can''t assume that he''d be able to get 17 goals again next season nor the season after that. Remember that he really wasn''t doing the business for us at the start of last season (people quickly forget that Morison was the main man for while), so theres a risk that he''ll start next season the same way.The other factor is I actually think we probably can replace him for £6m. Morison cost circa £3.5m I believe and scored 9 goals last season - not bad. Cisse cost Newcastle around £10m and scored 13 in 14 games. Just because English clubs are overpricing there players doesn''t mean we have to pay those prices for a replacement - it just means we need to look abroad. I''m sure all of you would be more than happy to "swap" Holt + £4m for a player of Cisse''s quality (not saying we can attract a player of Cisses quality, but it just puts it into perspective).The final thing to consider is if we did say spend £6m on say Jordan Rhodes as a replacement, while he may not score 17 goals in the prem his value will likely remain the same. If he does score 17 goals, then all of a sudden he''ll be worth loads. i.e. we spend £6m and will have an asset that''s worth £6m to £20m... if West Ham pay £6m for Holt then they''ll have an asset that will between £2m to £0 due to his age.To put all this into perspective, Kuyt and Berbatov are the same age as Holt. They are both much better than Holt (both play for their country and both have played for Champion League level sides). Kuyt has just moved for €1m, while Berbatov will likely move for a minimum fee (Leverkusen want him, but only on a free transfer). Granted there are other factors involved with those 2, but clubs don''t pay £10m for a player in their 30s (especially one who has only had 1 season at a top level his entire career).Note: for those that say that Holt is worth £70m to us as he keeps us in the prem, then you need to think 1) Holt alone didn''t keep us up last season 2) if he doesn''t perform and we get relegated then we''d be in an even worse position than if we sell and 3) We''ll need to replace Holt in a couple of seasons anyway, so might as well do it now when we can get £6m for Holt.[/quote]   IT WON''T BE 6 MILLION PAULO!   It will be 4 million......up front......and a possible 2 million later.   Sorry for shouting. [/quote]Personally think £4m + add-ons would be an excellent bit of business too (especially considering that I''m sure we could top up £4m and say spend £6/7m on a replacement)... much below that then I''d agree it wouldn''t be worth it for us.The thing is we''d probably structure deals for a replacement in the same way anyway (e.g. if we spent £7m on a striker, it''s highly unlikely that we''d pay £7m up front... to be honest I believe most transfer deals are much more complex than a club just handing over £x on day 1).

£6m is a massive amount for him and we need to bite any clubs hand off if they offer any where near that...This is the last time we''d be able to get a good fee for Holt. Imagine if he signed a 3 year contract with us today, but then wanted to move on in a couple of seasons... no way would we get anywhere near £6m for him. Also his price will never be higher... Holty has been amazing for us, but we can''t assume that he''d be able to get 17 goals again next season nor the season after that. Remember that he really wasn''t doing the business for us at the start of last season (people quickly forget that Morison was the main man for while), so theres a risk that he''ll start next season the same way.The other factor is I actually think we probably can replace him for £6m. Morison cost circa £3.5m I believe and scored 9 goals last season - not bad. Cisse cost Newcastle around £10m and scored 13 in 14 games. Just because English clubs are overpricing there players doesn''t mean we have to pay those prices for a replacement - it just means we need to look abroad. I''m sure all of you would be more than happy to "swap" Holt + £4m for a player of Cisse''s quality (not saying we can attract a player of Cisses quality, but it just puts it into perspective).The final thing to consider is if we did say spend £6m on say Jordan Rhodes as a replacement, while he may not score 17 goals in the prem his value will likely remain the same. If he does score 17 goals, then all of a sudden he''ll be worth loads. i.e. we spend £6m and will have an asset that''s worth £6m to £20m... if West Ham pay £6m for Holt then they''ll have an asset that will between £2m to £0 due to his age.To put all this into perspective, Kuyt and Berbatov are the same age as Holt. They are both much better than Holt (both play for their country and both have played for Champion League level sides). Kuyt has just moved for €1m, while Berbatov will likely move for a minimum fee (Leverkusen want him, but only on a free transfer). Granted there are other factors involved with those 2, but clubs don''t pay £10m for a player in their 30s (especially one who has only had 1 season at a top level his entire career).Note: for those that say that Holt is worth £70m to us as he keeps us in the prem, then you need to think 1) Holt alone didn''t keep us up last season 2) if he doesn''t perform and we get relegated then we''d be in an even worse position than if we sell and 3) We''ll need to replace Holt in a couple of seasons anyway, so might as well do it now when we can get £6m for Holt.

Did we play a weakened team? Yes...No Ruddy, Holt, Surman or Naughton, who where all fit and all playing wellTierney, Whitbread, Ayala would all start ahead of those that played, so we basically had a 2nd string back 4Gut feeling is Vaughan would be ahead of Jackson if fully fit.So I reckon we were missing at least 7 from that game... though we actually rested 4. That''s no excuse though... for me the reason we lost were: Leceister wanted it......we didn''t - just look at the messages from Lambert (i.e. Man U more important, not even having your Captain on the bench says alot).Replacing Fox with Johnson was a bit mental (we needed a ball winner, but Fox was the only one building any play at all... though again I think that was Lambert thinking about Man U).Morison may be the new boo boy favourite, but I though Wes was a much bigger issue... if you play the diamond, then it only works well if the tip of the diamond plays well. The midfield in general didn''t work... basically we had 5 attacking players on the pitch, but no ball winners in the middle of the park.A bit more luck and we would have won that game... we were rubbish, but it wasn''t like Leceister dominated.

There seems to be a lot of people who are disappointed at us signing Vaughan, but seemingly would be ecstatic if we''d signed Craig Mackail-Smith instead. I don''t get it! I assume people are making these opinions based on goal scoring records this season and nothing else... when you consider the following it may change your opinion:Some things to consider about Vaughan:22 years oldScored 9 in 30 for a rubbish Champs teamProbably cost £1.5m + add-onswas (is?) the premierships youngest goalscorerBeen on Evertons books since he was a kid and should have signed for Celtic last season (some paper work issue stopped it)... so is quite highly rated!Some things to consider about CMS:27 years old.When he was 22, he scored 11 goals in 38 games... in the conferenceScored 10 goals in 43 games when last in the ChampsProbably would cost £3m+Never played higher than the Championship and only scored 1 in 4 then.Only really now being looked at by bigger clubs... would we have wanted a 22 year old CMS when he was at Dagenham & Redbridge ? I think not!At this moment CMS *might* be a better player since he''s been around for longer and is having a great season in league 1. However, if you just look at the above then surely you''d take Vaughn every time?... he''s cheaper, already has a better goal scoring rate in the Championship, already scored in the Premiership, is much younger (so loads more potential) and seems to be rated very highly by some big clubs.