Paulo_M

[quote] You seriously think that Loza is up to being a striker in the championship ??? Really ???? The suggestion that he can replace Hooper is ludicrous . Like I already said in a post an hour ago ,,, we cannot be sure of finding a suitable replacement in the loan market ,,, keep what we have is the better answer ,, surely ?[/quote] No, reread my post... I said we''ve brought in 3 forwards and also have Loza coming through (who we of course wasn''t an option last season).... so in that regard we have 4 new forwards and if Hooper left then that would only be 2 forwards out. Maybe badly worded, but you could consider one of Grabban/Lafferty/Jerome/Loza as Hoopers replacement. I also said "could say" as well... personally think we wouldn''t *need* to replace (far more important to fill other positions), but if Hooper went and we did replace then I wouldn''t say that was a bad thing (might be hard to keep all our strikers happy though!). In terms of the "keep what we have is the better answer ,, surely" - well we have to be realistic... if Hooper wants to leave and other strikers are already proving their worth (i.e. it''s not like we are missing Hooper at the moment) then we can''t say no to a big bid.... our revenue has decreased quite a bit!! To use your word, it would be ludicrous for a Championship club to turn down say £10m for a player that will likely sit on the bench (and who also has shown he isn''t great in the formation we are currently playing).

[quote user="Robin Hood canary"]To sell hooper, Redmond etc we won''t have time to get in replacements. Regardless of the money we should now hold onto them until at least January?[/quote] Three things: 1) We''ve already brought in 3 forwards and have Loza is coming through, so you could say we''ve already got our Hooper replacement a the club. Maybe even Redmond too with Mcgrandles coming in (though of course Pilks has gone). 2) The club will be planning around this... replacements will already be lined up. 3) We have the loan window in the Champs... so if Redmond does go and we can''t get in a replacement, then we''d likely be able to get a half decent winger on loan from the Premier League.

I''ve seen Whittaker play LB a few times (such as last night) and he seems alright cover for that position. However, I don''t think I''ve ever seen Olsson nor Garrido play RB and Martin is first choice CB, so maybe if anything we need a CB/RB.i.e. we have....LB:OlssonGarridoWhittaker (emergency)RB:WhittakerMartin (but currently 1st choice CB)E Bennett (emergency I guess... done alright here, but not exactly the same as having Whittaker at LB).CB:MartinTurnerR BennettBassong (though out of favor)I guess this is why we are likely to sign Cuellar - he''s a CB that can play at RB.... then we have 3 LB, 3 RB, 4 CB over 7 players 9 (ignoring E Bennet as a RB & Bassong)

Personally thought Bennett was one of our better players against Wolves and was unlucky to be dropped out of everyone that played.Agree though that the Redmond "hate" is a bit over the top, but it''s mainly due to fans frustration since we know how good he can be... at the moment he isn''t getting credit for what he is bringing to the team (i.e. teams are scared of him brilliant at breaking at pace & as such turning defense into attack in an isntant), but to be honest he''s rightly being criticised about his end product (he''s been putting better balls in, but at the end of the day he seems to shoot at stupid times and many of his crosses are wasteful).

[quote user="mrs miggins"]becchio didn''t get much of a chance last season and probably hates this club and not showing ''the right attitude'', it''s got nothing to do with form. How is he supposed to have any form when he''s has hardly played[/quote]Nothing to do with form? By all accounts he was rubbish against the mighty Kings Lynn last month... if a player is struggling to get into the first team for any reason (even if totally unfair), then he needs to be proving himself by playing out of his skin in the reserves... by all accounts Becchio isn''t doing that. He has no right to be automatically picked just because he was half decent a couple of seasons ago.

[quote user="AidanC"]Not to kill the buzz on the pre-game. But! With the recent transfer of Pilkington to Cardiff it came out as he didn''t have an injury even though Adams suggested he had - is this the same with Fer and the QPR transfer. I guess we''ll find out tonight - OTBC.[/quote]I posted this in a different thread that was basically the same i.e. bashing Adams for "lying"..... I personally think Adams has been pretty refreshing in interviews... it hasn''t been the same evasive/stock answers that most football managers use (and what Hughton was often bashed for).... his response to the Kris Commons link was classic - most managers would have said something like "we are looking at a lot of players" rather than just dismissing it. However, due to this his words are now being twisted into "lies"And by "lies", I mean people are interpreting what he''s saying in one specific way and then attributing quotes to that.... it''s snowballing so people are now saying that he said x when he actually said y.For example, from memory he said:- Pilks wasn''t ready/fit, but Pilks on Twitter said he was available... are we to trust Pilks (who has since left) or our manager? I suspect the reality is both are right since fitness isn''t a black and white situation... maybe Adams thought he wasn''t doing enough in training and publicly didn''t want to have a go at Pilks?- He wanted to keep RvW. I don''t think he ever said he wouldn''t leave. Even if he didn''t want to keep RvW, he''s not going to say to the press "RvW is cr@p and are desperate to sell"... if he did that then we wouldn''t exactly be in a position to negotiate the deal we did with St Etienne. - Fer was in the squad for today. There''s no evidence that that wasn''t the case yesterday. The fact he played on Saturday afternoon indicates no fee was agreed at that point... and it obviously wasn''t agreed when he was asked the question. Until he''s sold he''s still a Norwich player and as such should be available. Also maybe him saying Fer was in the squad pushed QPR into action (the rumours have been going around for weeks... maybe this was our way of putting pressure on i.e. "if you want him, make us a proper offer").He''s been accused of lying about all of the above, but I don''t see lies here... maybe he''s not 100% transparent, but if he was he would have been putting the club at risk (i.e. reducing our bargaining power over fees).Personally think some of our fans are being a bit naive about what a multi million pound company will say publicly about multi million pound assets.Maybe everyone would be happy if he said nothing in interviews?

[quote user="Barclay seats 4849 the 3rd"]Given that we have almost another two weeks before the window closes, who else do you think will be on their way ? I don''t want to see Gary Hooper go ,, but have a feeling that after Surman , he will be next . There hasn''t been any talk related to Bechio or Bassong , so those are my predictions .[/quote]It depends on whether clubs are willing to pay what we demand. Our board are showing that we are holding out for big transfer fees and now we''ve got more than we expected for Snoddy & likely Fer, it makes our bargaining position is even more powerful.That said I''d expect someone may come in for Hooper and I''d expect we''d be tempted to sell... Grabban/Lafferty/Redmond attack line looks solid, so don''t think we really "need" Hooper... I''m not convinced Hooper would fit into a system with Wes either (i.e. with Wes we really need to play one up front... and don''t believe Hooper can play that role). If we could get say £7m for Hooper and then spend a couple of million on someone different up front (i.e. a big physical guy like Cameron Jerome for the times we need to hold on at the end of a game etc.) then that would be good business.I''m not to fussed about Surman, but does seem odd that he has gone awol after the first game... more to the story there and suspect he may go.I suspect other assets like Redmond & Ruddy to stay. I''m not sure about the fringe two of Becchio & Bassong as I suspect they are on very big wages for how good they are (i.e. will anyone be willing to match their salary? I doubt it and I expect both players aren''t too bothered about not playing considering they are both on the way down).

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="city4eva"]He didnt keep us hanging on in the summer, he didnt want to come here with the set up that was offered[/quote]   this.. Malky didnt want Adams on his staff... the board did.... [/quote]Evidence for this... or is it all rumours/assumptions?

[quote user="YellowNets1901"]It''s not a case of that, Buh. I''m fully behind Neil, most are, but he has already told a few, for want of a better word, ''lies'' to the media. Pilkington injury, RvW move, Fer medical all things that spring to mind. Media and fans need to be able to trust him and so far he''s told a few porkies.[/quote][quote user="jas the barclay king"]I think if anything it shows Adams'' inexperience and naivety somewhat. its a whole different world speaking on the radio and stating the obvious to what it is being a closely guarded football manager. we need a Mouthpeice... someone on the coaching staff who does the interviews. leaving Adams to work on the football[/quote] I personally think Adams has been pretty refreshing in interviews... it hasn''t been the same evasive/stock answers that most football managers use (and what Hughton was often bashed for).... his response to the Kris Commons link was classic - most managers would have said something like "we are looking at a lot of players" rather than just dismissing it. However, due to this his words are now being twisted into "lies"And by "lies", I mean people are interpreting what he''s saying in one specific way and then attributing quotes to that.... it''s snowballing so people are now saying that he said x when he actually said y.For example, from memory he said:- Pilks wasn''t ready/fit, but Pilks on Twitter said he was available... are we to trust Pilks (who has since left) or our manager? I suspect the reality is both are right since fitness isn''t a black and white situation... maybe Adams thought he wasn''t doing enough in training and publicly didn''t want to have a go at Pilks?- He wanted to keep RvW. I don''t think he ever said he wouldn''t leave. Even if he didn''t want to keep RvW, he''s not going to say to the press "RvW is cr@p and are desperate to sell"... if he did that then we wouldn''t exactly be in a position to negotiate the deal we did with St Etienne. - Fer was in the squad for today. There''s no evidence that that wasn''t the case yesterday. The fact he played on Saturday afternoon indicates no fee was agreed at that point... and it obviously wasn''t agreed when he was asked the question. Until he''s sold he''s still a Norwich player and as such should be available. Also maybe him saying Fer was in the squad pushed QPR into action (the rumours have been going around for weeks... maybe this was our way of putting pressure on i.e. "if you want him, make us a proper offer").He''s been accused of lying about all of the above, but I don''t see lies here... maybe he''s not 100% transparent, but if he was he would have been putting the club at risk (i.e. reducing our bargaining power over fees).Personally think some of our fans are being a bit naive about what a multi million pound company will say publicly about multi million pound assets.Maybe everyone would be happy if he said nothing in interviews?

I''ve seen many comments about the fee for Fer (rumoured between £7m-£10m) to be way too low on here/twitter etc.. I think we paid a fair amount less than this (£4m?), so seems pretty good return considering he didn''t exactly set the Prem alight last season... however, that''s just my opinion and due to the negativity around the rumoured fee, I thought I''d try and find some comparisons. Here''s a few examples of fees for foreign midfielders that joined Prem clubs this summer.- Emre Can joined Liverpool for £9.75m- Fernando joined Man City for £12m- Siem de Jong joined Newcastle for £6m- Remy Cabella joined Newcastle for £12m- Dusan Tadic joined Southampton for £10m All these players were playing for a top tier clubs and have joined an established top tier club in England.They all went between £6m - £12m.Granted the length of contract and age come into play, but so does the financial situation of each club (i.e. we are a 2nd tier club, so we can''t turn down £10m for anyone). However, just looking at this, doesn''t the Fer fee seem pretty good? Why are some of our fans expecting more than this?Personally think people are focussing on the Snodgrass fee way too much - that was an absolute steel from us and even Bruce admited they paid too much.Basically we shouldn''t be comparing the fee to British players (well documented that they are overpriced) nor Strikers (who of course are generally more expensive). If you compare the rumoured fee to the above it seems like a good deal to me.

[quote user="jaemae2"][quote user="Paulo_M"][quote]Im sorry but anyone who thinks that Jerome in and RVW out is good business is crazy, yes we got good money for Ricky but to sell a Dutch International and sign a journeyman cart horse is a sign of where we are progressing added to Fer out and O''Neil in our strong squad is slowly becoming an average one. Lets sell Howson next and bring in Korey Smith and we are doing well[/quote]You do realise that we''ve been relegated right?You also do realise that Jerome has a better scoring record in the Prem than Wolfswinkel?And that he''ll offer something completely different to the rest of our forwards?And by accounts he may be choosing us over Celtic, which considering we''re a Champs club now is quite a coup?[/quote] except playing in Scotland is akin to playing in 7th division England. Even Hooper had success there, that says enough.[/quote] So you''re just going to ignore that all my other points and resort to a really original "Scottish football is rubbish"? How creative!

[quote user="Cheap Cheap Canaries"]Have to agree , signing old over the hill has beens has never been a great gameplan , Jerome is a striker who rarely ever strikes . I  thought with the money we have we would have been trying to tempt the likes of Nick Powell who seems unwanted at Utd . Commons is about the best player we have been linked too and there seems nothing in that one .Squad is begining to look a very ordinary Championship one , i believe this division is where the Board want to be .[/quote]Jerome is a "over the hill has been" at 28?Also Commons/Powell are completely different players to Jerome?

[quote]Im sorry but anyone who thinks that Jerome in and RVW out is good business is crazy, yes we got good money for Ricky but to sell a Dutch International and sign a journeyman cart horse is a sign of where we are progressing added to Fer out and O''Neil in our strong squad is slowly becoming an average one. Lets sell Howson next and bring in Korey Smith and we are doing well[/quote]You do realise that we''ve been relegated right?You also do realise that Jerome has a better scoring record in the Prem than Wolfswinkel?And that he''ll offer something completely different to the rest of our forwards?And by accounts he may be choosing us over Celtic, which considering we''re a Champs club now is quite a coup?

[quote user="CJRV 2014"]1- Not playing Bennett at centre back and Martin RB. 2- Playing that diamond. 3- Building a side and formation around a player who doesnt score or create enough. 4- Playing Surman. 5- Taking the job. Too big for him.[/quote]1. Agreed. Also if Bassong is not going to come back then I feel we need to sign a CB. Martin ain''t the answer.2. Agree to an extent... we were overrun in midfield against wolves, but may work in other games. We shouldn''t just pick one formation ala Hughton and play it no matter what.3. I assume you are either referring to Redmond or Hoolihan, but can''t say after one proper game that we are building a team around anyone.4. Disagree - good at Champs level for us and last season too.5. Totally disagree - did I want Adams? Of course not. Do I blame Adams for taking the job? Of course not... if anyone offered you lots of money for a job you thought you were capable of doing (or maybe even if you thought it was beyond you) in a profession you have a lot of passion for, you simply would not say "no thanks".

People are looking at this way too simplistically. Personally I would love to have at my work someone else at my level or even slightly more senior that I can occasionally bounce ideas off... that doesn''t mean I "need" that person nor am I rubbish at my job since I don''t have that.I''m sure Adams and the board are looking at this in the same way. Royle at the time was available, so having him around was probably viewed as a bonus... now he''s not available, they probably think there''s no-one else like Royle (i.e. who has a lot of history with Adams) and also they don''t really "need" someone.

1. Didn''t back Martin Olsson over sending off. Probably the worst game Olsson has had for the club, then got sent off during a period that we were on top and then pushed the ref. You want our manager to back that?2. Froze out Pilkington and then sold him for chump change to our rivals. Been injured/frozen out before Adams. Last year of his contract and we''ve got a couple of million for him. If he''s so good, why isn''t he going to a Prem club?3. Lied about RVW How do we know he didn''t want him to stay? Regardless, we''ve got a great price for someone that flopped last year (note that I wanted him to stay).4. Dithered in the transfer market Huh? Who have we lost out on? Only one I can think of is Callum Wilson and that was only a rumour (and most fans would have said "who?" before the start of the season). We couldn''t score goals last season, so have got 2 strikers in. We''ve also got a new midfielder. So far we''ve only sold Snoddy (Pilks hasn''t been confirmed yet... wouldn''t be surprised if he''s failed his medical). Realistically we aren''t going to sign many without some being shipped out... if Pilks & Fer go as expected, then we''ll bring in new faces.5. Plays Nathan Redmond out of position I give you this one... playing Redmond up front is not the answer. That said, he was picked as Hooper was injured, Lafferty wasn''t 100% and Becchio has totally lost it by all accounts (was apparently rubbish in that U-21 game if you remember).

Becchio was brought in via a swap deal with Morison. He is obviously a Morison replacement - a 3rd or 4th choice. As a proven goalscorer at Championship level, that is more than ok for a club our size. Morison also wanted away and was (rightly or wrongly) hated by a good chunk of fans, so the deal was a win-win for us really... worst case is Becchio never plays well for us, but that would be no different to Morison. Becchio (like Morison) is hard to accomodate in the team when we have Holt too, so didn''t really get a run in the side. However, when he has played he hasn''t let us down and has actually looked pretty good - his link up play with Howson for example has been great. I''d prefer him as an option on the bench than Morison... and he didn''t actually cost anything. Kei obviously wasn''t our first choice in the January transfer window, but was available and he added something we desperately needed last season - pace. His enthusiasm at the start of his spell was great, but he soon showed that he wasn''t exactly the most skillful player ever. After the Everton game (where he was great), he started to show how he didn''t really have the skill or footballing mind of a Prem footballer... being enthusiaic and a nice guy doesn''t make you a great footballer sadly. We have ended up getting RvW (who was probably our first choice in January), so now have (I presume) the pace we need up front. I wouldn''t mind having Kei on the books as a 3rd/4th choice like Becchio, but unlike Becchio he''d cost £2m-ish. You may not think £2m is expensive, but it''s still £2m and as a player who isn''t getting any younger he''d have no resell value. We also really need to step up a level... our previous first choice of Holt should really be becoming to the 2nd/3rd choice. Personally I''d prefer to sign someone like Hooper rather than Kei at this point. Finally, it''s not simply a matter of deciding who stays and who goes. Becchio has a contact, so naturally "remains on the books". You say Hoots has been ruthless with Vaughan (rightly so - crazy signing by Lambert), but he remains on the books too after playing for us 5 times in 2 years as he also has a contract. Even if Hoots did want to have Kei over Becchio, then he''d need to sell Becchio and then pay £2m for Kei. Would Hughton/the club really want to do that or would then prefer to keep the proven goalscorer over the guy that scored 1 goal for us and played his football in the MLS for his entire career?

"I don''t see how his impact since coming to the club has been that significant anyway.... I''m not sure that he has done much better than Doncaster"Doncaster took us to league one. McNally has taken us to Premier League. We were close to adminstration and now making millions. Surely the guy deserves some credit for that."I am not totally satisfied that Lambert couldn''t have been retained"Who knows, but I firmly believe that there was more to this story than the public knows. There were rumours for months that Lambert wanted out. I wouldn''t be surprised if McNally/the board wanted rid of him too. I''ll be controversional here and suggest Lambert might not be to god of management that we think/thought he was. Lambert kickstarted us and then relied on momentum... but that momentum was slowing - Our record under him at the end of his last season was pretty poor... and now look at Villa who are awful under him. He may just be the next Warnock - great at getting teams promoted, but crap at managing top players in the Prem. Not surprising really as Prem players with their egos need a manager they respect, not someone that they clash with."The teams position is on a knife edge.."Is it? 7 points of relegation, lots of winnable games at home. Win at the weekend and we could be 4 wins above teams that have won only 4 or 5 games all season. Even if we continued our winless streak for the next 5 games, its unlikely we''d be in the bottom 3."I just don''t like the style of play, one away win, playing for draws"We aren''t title contenders. If we were winning away we''d be top 6. What do you expect?? "Currently, he gets paid a Premiership wage for signing Championship players... I feel short changed with the signings made in the last two windows"Bassong, Turner, Garrido and Whittaker were all playing for top flight clubs and signed this season. Snodgrass is premier league class. So is Tettey. I''m not going to write off Becchio and Kei without seeing them in a yellow shirt. None of them cost the earth, though maybe we''d have been happier if Bassong cost as much as Samba? Maybe they aren''t "sexy" names, but I''d much prefer them then the "big name players" the likes of QPR have."Do the fans have that much faith in Houghton?"First off, it''s Hughton. Second, yes - I''d say all fans that aren''t morons would have faith. The best result last season was beating Spurs... this year we''ve beat Man U, Arsenal and Spurs.. we''ve gone on a 10 game run without a lose... Hughton recognised that Lambert didn''t know what to do with the defence and fixed it - look how many clean sheets we''ve kept and who he signed. Yes we''ve been whooped a few times, but we did under Lambert too. I also personally think we''ve been a tad unlucky since December - we deserved have picked up more points than we did."in the loop to buy Hooper…. Well that’s not good enough. You either sign a player on the dotted line or you don’t"Yes, because having only 1 month to sort out a mutli million pound deal is that simple... I think the club didn''t want to be ripped off and as such did the sensible thing... what if we spent £15m on Hooper and he was rubbish Or got injured? and then what if we got relegated? Think about it.It really does make me sad that we have supporters that act like this. The fact that we are where we are is amazing and wish they could just enjoy it.

Some thoughts of mine / reasons to be cheerful!:- We''ve only lost once this season and that is quickly looking like a weird fluke.- Hughton has sorted the defense, something Lambert never did.- Holt has been a slow starter EVERY season (has everyone forgotten he was quickly dropped in favour of Morison last season?).- We''ve created lots of chances in every game... we''ve just been a bit unlucky in front of goal (and had opposing goalies on form).- Following on from the last comment, a bit more luck and we''d have 7 points right now with exactly the same performances... I doubt anyone would say we''ve played badly if that was the case.- Personally think we look a better side now than at the start of last season.- Many fans wanted Wes on against WH, but that would have meant sacrificing a striker or losing the midfield battle (i.e. WH had 5 big blokes in midfield... would you be happy to only have 4 in midfield - and one of those being Wes?). Not bringing Wes on wasn''t Hughton being negative in my eyes - it would have been a gamble that may have not paid off.- Finally, Hughton employs different tactics than Lambert. Lambert was gung ho, while Hughton seems to be more cautious. It doesn''t mean Hughton''s tactics are wrong... Lamberts style may have been exciting, but it''s very risky. Personally think we should be more cautious as we are no longer an unknown quantity and also the league this year is tougher.

Tickets are available as it''s an early kickoff, on Sky and it''s "only" West Ham... the Sky factor is the biggest - most clubs struggle with attendances when they are on sky. If you don''t have a season ticket then tickets are amazingly expensive... as a season ticket holder I totally appreciate why some can''t make today. I have no doubt that we could sell 30k+ tickets for most 3pm saturday games, especially against the big teams. Also, its no way as simply as "we can''t fill our stadium now, so don''t need more seats". Even if we struggled we attendances (which we of course don''t), we''d likely sell more tickets in a bigger stadium as ticket prices would come down etc. The other factor is it''s practically sold out, so the original post is a bit troll-tasic (not much to moan about at the moment, so lets moan about this!)

[quote user="Mungo Bumpkin"]Because REAL fans support the team and not just at lah-didah big time Premiership games where they can wet themselves about getting a glimpse og Stevie G or Rooney. I''ll put a question to you. Why are attendances bigger at Premiership games than at cup games against Scunthropre? Because the majority of "fans" (those who didn''t show up last night) are more interested in the opposition and their big stars than supporting Norwich City. FACT![/quote] I didn''t go last night because - Tuesday nights are awkward for me... I work and have a young baby (so baby duties for me in the evenings!). - It''s an added expense... yes it was cheap, but I already spend hundreds on the club each year. - the club doesn''t take the cup seriously, so I don''t feel I should put loads of effort & spend more money due to this. I expect there''s loads of people in a similar situation & who have been burnt in the past (i.e. put a lot of effort into seeing a cup game that we don'' take seriously). That said, I''ve had a season ticket for nearly 20 years and never left a match early (including Colchester)... I''ve also only missed a couple home game in that time & that was when I was seriously ill (booked holiday & other commitments around the fixture list). But with your logic I''m not a real fan?

I''m not sure why people think we *need* a striker. We''ve only lost Wilbraham in this area and basically have a new signing in Vaughan... also Snodgrass plays a very attacking role too & can fill in as a second striker.So with Vaughan fit & Snodgrass in, I think we are actually stronger in this area than last season. Does anyone actual think we are weaker? Having said that, I think up front is now our weakest position & would be a good place to strengthen - Jackson/Martin aren''t really of the level we need and Vaughan is of course injury prone... so personally would love another one in the mix.However, there''s no point bringing in players of the same quality - they need to be better... and since strikers are incredibly expensive I don''t think the cost/benefit stacks up... i.e. would it be worth spending say £8m on  a striker since we''re likely to play 1 up top (so either they or Holt would be on the bench most of the time).

[quote user="tom cavendish"]So far Naughton, Whitbread, Ayala, and Drury have all departed to be replaced by Whittaker and Turner. Martin wasn''t very good at right-back. We still don''t have a defensive midfielder other than Johnson. That is why some people are concerned.[/quote]This is a classic example... Bennett joined us in March (I think), so he wasn''t really here most of last season.. he played only 4 times according to wikipedia.. he''s like a summer signing in my eyes. The way I view it...Turner replaces Whitbread... this is an obvious improvementGarrido replaces Drury... this is an obvious improvementBennett replaces Ayala... probably an improvement.Whittaker replaces Naughton... this may actually be an improvement (though I agree the jury is out as Naughts had a fine season).Ward/Ayala/Barnett are all CB back ups & we have Martin too... having 6 CBs is too much & they all are ok as back ups... yes Ayala is the best out of those, but he did make some naive mistakes last season so in my eyes makes perfect sense for him to go out on loan (since he won''t get many games & it''ll help improve his game).As for a DM, I totally agree... would love one there... but that''s only one position - signing a £10m rated DM doesn''t change us from certain relegation candidates to guaranteed safety - I think what we''ve got (Johnson/Fox/Howson) will all do fine in the middle of the park.

It seems that many fans think we are weaker than last season and have lots of concerns. I''m not sure why this is... maybe certain fans have forgotten what we had at the start of last season...This is the starting line up from Wigan Away last year (note: was good enough to get a draw):RuddyMartin---Whitbread---De Laet---TierneyCrofts---Fox---Hoolahan---Surman Holt---MorisonCompare that to our a potential starting lineup we''ll see soon (assuming we get Garrido):RuddyWhittaker---Turner---Bennett---GarridoBennett---Howson---Fox---PilksSnodHoltThe things that strikes me are:- 3 of our back 4 have played in Europe/highest level for years. The other is a well respected hot prospect. Compare that to last year where theres hardly any experience. The upgrade is incredible really, but people still want another CB??- The midfield shape is a much better fit - Crofts & (to an extent) Surman aren''t wide men. Massive upgrade in terms of quality and shape.- All our players, apart from Snod, have top flight experience now.- Players that had great seasons like Surman/Wes/Morison/Martin only make the bench in that potential team.- The fact that 2 players from that team last year have been deemed to be surplus to requirements says a lot. Granted our team changed over last season - we saw Naughton/Bennett/Pilks etc. come in early on, but this season will likely be the same... I''m sure we''ll see further additions (maybe a striker or DM) either in the next few weeks or in January. What is clear is that our team on the first day of the season will be stronger than it was last season.Now the counter argument is that the league will be tougher than last season... I do agree with this as there doesn''t look like there will be a Blackburn/Wolves this season. However, I think the concern that the promoted sides have all spent big money is a bit unfounded at the minute... you really have to compare their signings with all the signings we have made since promotion, not what we have done during this summer alone. Just because Southampton has spent a massive sum on Jay Rod doesn''t mean they''ll some how be better than us in all the positions we have strengthened in the last 12 months.The other positive is that we''ve kept our best players from last season... rivals like Swansea haven''t. The biggest loss is Naughton, but Whittaker has much more experience  - I can''t see how people can yet say "he''s not as good as Naughton" (just because he played in Scotland doesn''t make him crap). The other loss is Whitbread... he''s a good player, but is an injury concern... the fact that he didn''t get a top flight contract says it all really... we''ve replaced him with someone who got POTS 3 times in a row (2 of those in the prem league I believe) & who only 3 years ago was linked with Man city & Liverpool.Finally, what are the chances of us conceding so many penalties early on? Imagine the points total last season if we weren''t so naive... simply removing those types of mistakes probably means an extra 10 points or so (so even if the league has better teams this year, we hopefully won''t shoot ourselves in the foot so much!). So those that are concerned about the season - let''s wait and see what happens in the first few games. In the mean time, think about how much the team has improved since Wigan away last year & cheer up!

[quote user="NWC"]Naughton is a damn fine left back too - and can also put in a shift as CB.We need to get this player here permenantly IMO.[/quote]I agree that he can play at LB in emergency (much like Whittaker), but it''s not his best position... we''ve already signed a RB in this window & have Martin too... we have loads of CB options... at LB we only really have Tierney (granted Lappin can play there, but again he''s not really a true LB). Personally think it would make more sense to get in a player like Naughton who is left footed and played at LB all his career... not sure who that is though!