Thomo

The average age of the 20,000 season ticket holders is around 43. I didnt suggest that 60% are pensioners, that was someone else, so to use that in conjunction with the figure i was given by Joe is completely irrelevant. I had already stated that the 50-60% pensioners stat was off the mark. I gave good reason as to why i feel that the atmosphere is worsening, your opinion on those views would be more productive.

Actually, whilst Grefstads figures around the age of fans aren''t quite right, he is along the right track.The average age of a season ticket holder at Carrow Road is 42, that came from Joe Ferrari in a conversation we had last year, so it could feasibly be 43 now. We retain around 90% of season ticket holders each year which obviously means that grows year on year, unless there is a mass cull of the elderly in one year, or an influx of kids joining. Compare this to the 80''s and early 90''s and there would be a massive difference. I don''t know what it would be for norwich, but there''s been stats about Man Utd that came out of the safestanding campaign, that the average age in the 80''s was about 18, compared to their mid forties now.Another difference for the atmosphere, within a full modern stadium like Carrow Road is that people don''t move around like they used to. Back in the days of terracing people who wanted to stand and sing congregated together and when they felt they''d reached an age where they''d had enough of that, they moved away from it and in to other areas of the ground, allowing space for the next group of youngsters. With an all seater stadium people don''t migrate to other areas, there is no longer a need to move to a seat away from the terrace. That means that the vocal support that is in the stadium is spread further apart and cannot congregate, as a result.Also with the rising cost of tickets, some people have finally had to bite the bullet and give up their season tickets. Often these spaces are filled by people who want to attend games but don''t neccesarily want to join in vocally, further diluting the atmosphere.Unfortunately, there is no easy solution to this at this time.Teams like Leicester and Palace, have been able to regroup in other empty areas of their grounds, but for us, its not feasible without wholesale changes, which is too large of a logisitical problem for the club to get involved in.

Thanks City Angel, i will get in contact with the lads and Nev.

Nigel, Pub Quiz is a possibility, when you thinking?

Mr Tilson, I''m not surprised that the members of Canaries Trust and the other groups tend not to reply to your questions on here.Your past dealings as a Chairman with NCISA clearly puts you in a better position to talk about being in a supporters group, than my short period working with my friends on things that we feel passionate about does. I respect that, but don''t lord it over me because you''ve been there and done it yourself, it makes you look a c...Let us learn from our own mistakes and we''ll learn as we work along side the other groups. We will form our own structure (or not!) in our own time. For now, please forgive me if i tend not to respond to any of your questions or posts in the future.Thanks,Thomo

I''m not trying to make anything Personal Nigel, I was just answering your question.

As i said above Nigel, away fans would just be the start.We want to drive the price of football down on the whole.Are you aware that for the leicester game the club are charging £45 for home areas. Leicester fans are paying £35 as their club are subsidizing it for them. So whilst the club may still be getting the money, you would be paying a tenner more than the bloke in the away end already.

TIL, We are a group of supporters, who the club recognise as a supporters group. If the club are happy with our structure, i''m happy with it. People within the club know who are and have methods to contact us if and when they wish to, that goes for Joe Ferrari, the ticket office, right up to Mr McNally. If we choose to increase our numbers officially, then we will lean on our contacts in the other groups for advice. We tend to use Twitter and facebook rather than the website as it gets far more hits.

Sorry Nigel, I just hadn''t been back on the forum. Ultimately, its about driving the cost of watching football down, and as Ivor has stated, we need to win the small battles first. Get more people back in the stands, rather than watching at home on the tv.Tackling the cost of away tickets is just the first step.See you all Saturday, i''ll be the one stood on my own with my dog.

Well said Ivor. Hope to see you, at the protest. Come and introduce yourself, its always nice to put a face to people with the same views

Lappin, You are right, no one is forced to go watch their team away from home, however, if they choose to do so, they do have to pay the high prices. I understand that you are saying 4500 ipswich fans are going to Old Trafford of their own free will, but i''m pretty sure that not one of those fans would have complained if it was a few quid cheaper to get their ticket.TIL,I''m a little miffed that you started a thread asking if anything was taking place, and then when I answer your query, i''m the target for your frustrations about who our group does or doesn''t represent.The BEP was formed by three of us, and we have no membership scheme. It remains 3 of us, and we are in contact with many fans who share the same opinions about things such as ticketing prices, including Robin Sainty and the other fan groups i mentioned earlier.If its specifics you want about each member of the group, then come along to the protest (in a non protesting manner) and make yourself known to Robin Sainty, or one of the other faces you recognise and i''m sure myself, Thomas and Dave will all shake your hand and give you any information about us that you want to find out. We don''t hide away behind rocks, Tom writes for MFW and we have our BEP social media channels and our own personal accounts which many, many Norwich fans have contacted us via. We are just ordinary norwich city fans and would like to see the atmosphere improve, would like to see standing return to grounds in the uk and would like football to be more affordable for the everyday fan.I''m not going to sit on a forum getting annoyed by responses from people with different opinions, everyone is entitled to their own, We have just taken the opportunity to share our views with the leicester fans and the FSF, in an organised, peaceful protest. If you want to get hung up on the specific wording that we are all in it together, then thats your prerogative. But, I do feel that football fans, in general, pay too much to watch football matches, and i would like a change in pricing structures nationally to enable us ALL to watch our teams at a more affordable price. Thanks for your time.

Unless you have some way of getting a discounted ticket price that the rest of us are unaware of, then we ARE all in this together. Anyone who wishes to travel away to see their club, regardless of the team they support has to pay a ridiculous price for a ticket.I''m not suggesting that the BEP represent you, I''m suggesting that as a football fan, you are also subjected to the same price for a matchday ticket as the rest of us. The arguement has been made here that it would not be right for away fans to pay less than home fans. The reality is, that this happens the opposite way round practically every week, Most of us pay around £26 a game for our season tickets, whilst away fans (and any casual fans in home ends) get charged at least £10 more than that figure to attend the same fixture.We are not charged anymore than our £26 for the priviledge of watching Man Utd visit our club, so why should a United fan be charged nearly double for the same game, not just at Carrow Road, but at every ground they visit. Each and every away game, that United fan has to find an extra £15 or so, than perhaps our visit to the Hawthorns, Upton Park or Brittania would for you or I, just because they grew up as a red in greater manchester. The issue is football being affordable for all classes of fans.Away fans are just as important to a football match as the home fans are.* leave the "they probably only supported united when they started winning things" comments out. Most of the tourist Man Utd fans go to Old Trafford, not travel to away matches.

The BEProjekt man only be one man and his dog TIL, but the club still went out of their way to contact us regarding our involvement in the FSF''s protest. The BEProjekt, along with representatives from Forces2Canaries, Canaries Trust and some of the regional supporters groups will be having a static protest behind the Barclay End before the Leicester game, where FSF and BEP literature will be handed out regarding NATIONAL ticket prices. It''s not about causing a scene, attacking our club or its board members like the Derby fans did, it is merely to unite fans and express our frustration at being gradually priced out of the game we all love attending.  Some Leicester fan groups will also be joining us. We have discussed ticketing prices within Carrow Road at length with some of the club''s higher profile staff, and we agree with some of the points they have made regarding supply and demand,  However, if the premier league itself is making money available to clubs to subsidize the price of away tickets, and clubs (including ourselves) are doing this initiatives of their own accord too to ensure more away fans attend , then surely it only goes to prove just how ludicrous its got in the first place.I hope some of the guys reading this come along and join the protest, if only momentarily to receive some literature. We are all in this together.

OTBC is always the song that you can pick out whenever you''re listening to an away game or watching a game on the TV, its definitely an anthem and is in general our loudest song. I have two problems with it though. Firstly, and in context with this thread, its sung too quickly. Me and the other Barclay End Projekt guys are trying to slow it down around the back of E Block, in the hope that it will start to spread around the ground. Some "Kick It Off, Slow it down" images are going to be posted on social media before the start of the season, we may even hand some flyers out or something too. Secondly, for me, it''s sung too often!!! It seems to be sung by different little pockets of fans during a game. It is at it''s loudest and most prominent just after kick off or after we''ve scored/conceded and when people start it every 5-10 minutes, it''s not as strong and fades quickly.

Hi, The Legalise Safestanding banner that the Barclay End Projekt held up outside Carrow Road is not our own. It is from Man City''s 1894 supporters group. You can find them on Twitter - @1894Group_MCFC.The banner is passed around the country by various supporters groups who have made contact with the group directly or via the Football Supporters Federation. There is already a pre-determined route of games for the banner which i''m sure sees the rest of the season out.My advise would be to speak to one of your Cardiff Supporter groups and see if they wish to pursue it, then they''ll be able to make plans to get it early next season.Failing that, get a massive piece of material and make your own.

With no first team games until 3rd April surely you''ll all be getting withdrawal symptoms, So why not join our vocal section at the U21s game versus Everton on April 1st.The U21s went on an impressive run of form before their loss to Fulham on friday evening. Lets give them a helping hand by singing them back to victory at Carrow Road.If you are interested in joining our vocal section, contact us on twitter at @BE_Projekt or comment our U21''s vs Everton pic on facebook to reserve your FREE ticket.

Spot on from Big Fish and Nutty.Football go''ers have most definitely moved from Supporters to Customers (or consumers as the club actually call us).No one is doubting the incredible loyalty our supporter base has, we turn up in numbers, but the true passion of a fan who doesn''t get behind their team is something that many of us question. With each season ticket price hike, we''ve lost more and more faces within the vocal areas, and gained leeches that tell people that they "Barclay E Block" whilst not contributing to the atmosphere. That may well be their choice, but this is where the problem lies.With Carrow Road at capacity each home game and a steady stream of cash is flowing through the ticket office it doesn''t matter to the club if they pee off and disillusion the original fan base, because someone else, preferably with more money rattling round in their pocket, will snap up that seat and further dilute the once vocal areas.The club have backed themselves in to a corner, albeit behind a mountain of cash, where they know the atmosphere is in massive decline but know they cannot just relocate vocal fans because they know that their "consumers" will complain about the upheaval when asked to vacate their seats to make way for a section.The Barclay End Projekt''s vocal areas at U21''s games are proving to the club that we do have vocal fans that can make an atmosphere, if fans are allowed to once again congregate. Come along tonight and see for yourself. We will be in constant discussions over the next few years with the club to try and improve atmosphere, without the need for gimmicky clappers etc.A great start will be the club allowing the Projekt to organise ticketing within Blocks E & D for a home cup game next season, or even better, allow the lower Barclay to be unreserved seating, allowing people to get in early, congregate with like minded fans and create a vocal section naturally, like the old days.We''re a long way off, but the fight has just begun.

Its great to see that this thread is positive, as i''ve had many other conversations where people just tell me to shut up and that the only problem we have at Carrow Road is the players on the pitch! Its nice to be in the company of people who can also see that we need to sort the problem in the stands out.We want to help create a vibrant, constant and eventually loud support. We already have a few flags, and we have some more on their way (it all costs money though). We just need to get the right people in the right places for this to truly work.Eventually, we hope to have a paypal account or something where people can donate a few quid every so often to help with the cost of materials etcU21s games is a great place for this to happen right now though, the spurs game was great with 40+ of us congregated in one area and we were delighted to see some of the young early teens relocating to join our group in the second half, so they could stand and sing along with us. A young girl aged 5-6 sat in front of us was fascinated by our flags, so at half time we gave one of them to her which she happily waved for the next 45 minutes. That is what inspires the next generation of football fan for this club, not plastic clappers, pop music blaring through the tannoy or half time entertainment.

Parma, Firstly the vocal area needs some organisation.  We need people who want to sing congregated together, then when the time comes, a "capo" to orchestrate people maybe the way forward, but if we just arm someone with a megaphone now we end up with a capo shouting orders that no one responds to. The last thing we''d want is for the club to be overly involved in the orchestrating of the crowd, support should be controlled by the fans. Giving us plastic clappers and other half arsed attempts has only been detrimental to our clubs image and thats something that only we as fans will be able to rectify.

Jack, That''s exactly what we want to do, whether the club will willingly play ball is another matter.But if we get a home tie, expect to see a Barclay End Projekt campaign. That will also be dependent on ticket prices though. If they want to charge £35 or something for a third round game then we''d be better off not going, and allowing them to see the sterile atmosphere they''ve created.

The lads I stand with hope to persuade likeminded fans back in to the D-E block areas, the problem is there are many non vocal fans who like to describe themselves as "Barclay E Block" without actually contributing to the atmosphere, and unfortunately there is no way of removing them from the area without drastic changes i.e a standing area, unreserved seats which we are far far away from.You are 100% right though, we need to turn E block back in to our traditional vocal area.

Wimbledon, I wish it was dubbed out, but unfortunately, it was just as poor in the ground.If there is such a thing as a dubbing sound man for games, he definitely had his feet up for the night. You could hear a pin drop.

Also, if you are a fan who wants to be vocal but cannot in your current surroundings....please, please, please get in contact with the ticket office, there are odd seats dotted around E block which we need likeminded supporters to be snapping up, before more non vocal fans/consumers of this football club further dilute our atmosphere. Season Ticket holders are allowed to move areas, they just need to ask.If we concentrate on getting a core of vocal fans together then we will gradually start to bring an atmosphere back, and in turn, more people will want to be a part of it.We had 40+ of us together at the recent U21s and created a better atmosphere than the majority of the games this season.As for the people being sarcastic, do something constructive, you might not like the flags, that''s your prerogative, but open your mouths and sing along for christ''s sake. Our club is being remembered for plastic clappers, dead atmospheres and fans that truly believe we are the best in the world, thats not something I personally want to have associated with us. To be the best, you have to SUPPORT your team, not buy the clubshop.

I am "the guy with the flags" and yes i did have a moan, but honestly, when you can hear a pin drop at a football match when you''re 1 or 2-0 up it really is a joke. I''m a firm believer that the team plays better when there is an atmosphere, and the reason the game got cagey and boring was a reflection of what was happening in the stands.People moan and say they need to be entertained before they give support, i''d argue that your support should be unwaivered by performances, we do our job off the pitch, and they''ll do there''s in turn. I don''t turn with the expectancy to win, i turn up to help create an atmosphere and help the lads on the pitch.Also, the main reason for the moan was someone having a pop at me about missing the leeds game (work commitments) after i shouted "Come on, Get behind the F''in team".

Nobody actually knows how many fans were there without tickets or with fake tickets. This is just what the press and police eluded to.Some Liverpool fans even say that they had tickets for the less populated Forest areas and were sent to the Leppings Lane end by the police.The fact is, the police opened the gates, not the fans, and it moved a crush from the narrow street behind in to the central pen. If they''d opened all three pens and/or shut the middle pen when it was full, we probably wouldn''t be talking about it today.