BarclayWazza

I''ve been a season ticket holder for years. I also have a 2 jobs so my spare time is at a bit of a premium. Since Hughton has been manager I''ve enjoyed games less and less to the point where I''m starting to think it is a waste of my non work time. Now I''m looking at this from the point of view of wanting to make the most of my limited spare time. However I''m aware that in the eyes of some this is a heresy. Just wanted to get peoples opinions. Hoping at the end of this season it will be a moot point.

I seem to remember a few players drawing attention from other clubs. The majority of the players that were here last season aren''t playing to the same level as they have in previous seasons. We''ve had games where we''ve shown how we can play but its been the exception.

We are in a much better financial situation than most clubs in the PL. We get larger attendances than most of the bottom half. So financially we are on a sounder footing than enough clubs so that relegation shouldn''t be an issue. In terms on whether we should expect continuous improvement, probably not. There will be a point where we hit a glass ceiling but looking at the financial side of where we are now, we shouldn''t be there yet. I believe the squad is capable of performing at a much higher level. Hughton''s team selections/tactics/substitutions/general management mean that the team are performing at a level way below the sum of the individual ability. In addition, for the last couple of years there has been a real dearth of quality in the bottom half of the league, hence why the league has been so close in the bottom half. Therefore, frustrations are because we know how much difference to the league position these dropped points make. Someone keeps going on about us being 3 points from 10th. This is exactly what makes it so frustrating.

Again, still your opinion that your opinion is closer to fact. My opinion is the fact that projecting our current totals to the end of the season we will have less points and goals than last season is a sign of our regression.

I''m on Chrome from a mobile and dont think quote works on there. And I''m not seeking your apology, just pointing out that there not much difference between putting FACT at the end of something and repeating your opinion as if it is a fact.

I agreed when you said it first time around, its as valid as it was first time around.

[quote user="morty"]I shall repeat this, that I said on the first page, in case some of you missed it :-And the actual answer to it all is that we have overachieved for the last two seasons. We''re a bottom half team at best (given our budget) and we have the standard of squad and manager that we can afford, our cloth is cut accordingly.So stop sticking your bottom lips out and get real, its probably going to be like this most seasons we stay in the Premiership.[/quote] All about opinion, and repeating yours presenting it as fact, doesn''t make yours any more valid.

Quantitive evidence - fewer points and goals Qualititive evidence - higher levels of discontent, majority of people now against Hughton Its about as close to a fact as you can get. Unless you want to provide anything contrary you think might be of worth.

Do I think a lower league position means you''re going backwards? To an extent, yes. Add to that the continuous regression in style of play and I think its fair to say that.

"You do understand that we overachieved in the last two seasons given our budget, and we had to spend to basically stand still, don''t you?" Matter of opinion that. My opinion is that the league from maybe 10th downwards is dross and anyone can beat anyone on their day. Compare us to West Ham - the majority ot the money they have spent was on converting a loan to a permanent transfer who has spent most of the season injured. They were promoted a season after us. Also, if we need to spend to stand still, we should still be 11th, not going backwards!!!

Fer and Olsson we can''t really tell. IMO Fer started the season well and dropped off a bit in the past couple of months. Olsson has just been good all season. While Ruddy has been good, its hard to say whether he''s improved and I''ll give you Tettey. Whether we agree on if these guys have improved or not these are all defensive players. I cant think of one attacking player who is performing ahead of where we''d expect.

11th place finish last season, biggest transfer budget in our history, 7th biggest net spend prior to January window. Not being in bottom 3 is not a sign of something being right. Flirting with the bottom 3 is a sign of something being wrong. Fact is we''ve regressed since last season. Name me 3 players who have improved over the season.

So we''re still waiting to hear something right about Hughton. Every time a genuine question gets asked like this, tactics of misdirection and lowering expectations are employed to avoid giving an answer. What I don''t understand is that the people giving these answers must know they''re doing this as they don''t have an answer to the question. Surely if tbey know they dont have an answer, why do they persist in being in defence of him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26446213 "England forward and anti-racism campaigner Toni Duggan has apologised for painting her face black and dressing up as film star Whoopi Goldberg for a fancy dress party." Clearly no racist intent, imo stuff like this puts us further away from achieving racial equality.

A useful tip - some might say that calling someone an American idiot and calling for all foreigners to be banned from this board might (and I''ll whisper this) be a little racialist. Some might, not all but some.

[quote user="morty"][quote user="BarclayWazza"][quote user="morty"][quote user="BarclayWazza"]You will notice that my OP was very generic in context, and that was deliberate. I don''t know which posters are HI or HO as although I often read this board to get opinions I don''t really see the point in knowing who is posting - as I said before, unless I knew you IRL the only purpose I think it serves is to create some kind of virtual soap opera. It probably also allows me to post without preconceptions about the other people on the thread. Thats the way I use this, others are different, it''s up to them. Third apology for the contribution to life comment, as I said I''d become disallusioned after reading some contributions last night!! Morty''s reply here seems to look to deflect the points made in the previous post - is this a standard tactic?[/quote]Your hypocrisy is staggering fella.[/quote] This sums it up in 5 words. Please explain my hypocrisy. Have I tried to deflect something? I''ve explained my side several times (hopefully consistently), thrice apologised for the strength of words at the end of the OP, explained several times that normally I read posts without attention to identity but made my own decisions when invited by Nutty to attach names. Would you like to elucidate? Unfortunately Nutty, you''ve asked me to make my own opinions and your mate isn''t coming out of it well.[/quote]The hypocrisy being that you have started a thread calling for forum peace, two or three people have had a pop at me, utterly unprovoked, in this thread, but suddenly I am the bad guy?You choose to ignore their behaviour, but decide to highlight mine because I retalliate to their idiotic comments?You are contradicting your own op.[/quote] Ok then, but I''d hardly call them unprovoked. I''m guessing there is history here of some kind. I''ll spare both sides the "he started it" because no-one will come out of that favourably. By the way, I''m intregued to know what Reggie''s agenda is, he seems sensible so far...

[quote user="nutty nigel"]We''re different Wazza. To me what you''re actually saying is it''s alright to behave on here differently to how you would off here as long as you don''t call anyone a bellend! The way I see it is you have the same responsibilities on here as you do off here. [/quote] No no I totally agree, sorry if that wasnt apparent. In fact a lot of the sentiment around the OP was that I was a bit dismayed that either we had fans who felt that because we''re on an internet forum then it is ok to call someone a bellend (or worse) or we had people whose everyday personality was what comes across on here.

[quote user="morty"][quote user="BarclayWazza"]You will notice that my OP was very generic in context, and that was deliberate. I don''t know which posters are HI or HO as although I often read this board to get opinions I don''t really see the point in knowing who is posting - as I said before, unless I knew you IRL the only purpose I think it serves is to create some kind of virtual soap opera. It probably also allows me to post without preconceptions about the other people on the thread. Thats the way I use this, others are different, it''s up to them. Third apology for the contribution to life comment, as I said I''d become disallusioned after reading some contributions last night!! Morty''s reply here seems to look to deflect the points made in the previous post - is this a standard tactic?[/quote]Your hypocrisy is staggering fella.[/quote] This sums it up in 5 words. Please explain my hypocrisy. Have I tried to deflect something? I''ve explained my side several times (hopefully consistently), thrice apologised for the strength of words at the end of the OP, explained several times that normally I read posts without attention to identity but made my own decisions when invited by Nutty to attach names. Would you like to elucidate? Unfortunately Nutty, you''ve asked me to make my own opinions and your mate isn''t coming out of it well.

"It''s entirely up to you how you use the board Wazza. You don''t have to post to please anyone else. But if you want to come on here and start a thread criticising individual posters then I suggest that you''re not being quite truthful about how you say you use this community." Nutty, my OP was based around a few threads I read last night, admittedly not a fantastic sample size of this board but at the time, without attention to identity. You asked me for names, I reread the posts this morning and gave them. It just seems that from the posts I read I can clearly identify one poster!! It would appear the small sample size of posts is a fair representation of this poster considering his contribution to this thread. "I personally can''t see why this community isn''t part of real life. Treating it differently means you don''t have to take responsibility for what you write." I guess thats the beauty of the internet. I may misquote this but someone once said "On the internet you can be whoever you want to be. It''s a shame most people choose to be idiots".

You will notice that my OP was very generic in context, and that was deliberate. I don''t know which posters are HI or HO as although I often read this board to get opinions I don''t really see the point in knowing who is posting - as I said before, unless I knew you IRL the only purpose I think it serves is to create some kind of virtual soap opera. It probably also allows me to post without preconceptions about the other people on the thread. Thats the way I use this, others are different, it''s up to them. Third apology for the contribution to life comment, as I said I''d become disallusioned after reading some contributions last night!! Morty''s reply here seems to look to deflect the points made in the previous post - is this a standard tactic?

[quote user="morty"][quote user="BarclayWazza"]So then Nutty, may I ask if you know Morty and is he this pleasant in real life? I don''t think I''ve seen a post from him that discusses football like 2 lads would down the pub. Every post seems to have some kind of loaded comment within it against someone or outers in general. Having read threads in a bit more detail than usual this morning, I''m not sure Hughton is the primary cause for the division between fans at the moment! Morty Out!!![/quote]So, hang on, that little pack of idiots start having swipes at me on the previous page, and that is MY fault?Really?[/quote] Just calling it as I see it. I was asked to name names last night as at the time I had to admit I hadn''t paid attention to who was posting what. Having read a bit closer this morning, I haven''t seen one post from you pleasantly discussing football. I have to admit I havent read all c.20,000 of your posts and to be fair I may have missed some of the context but the gripes I had in the OP (I think the thread I was referring to has since been deleted but I think you were the author of the OP) seem to be alive and well in a large amount of your contributions. One I read this morning was in a thread showing concern about the harmony of the squad. Most of your posts in that thread are either attacking someone''s opinions (there''s a difference between that and reasoned debate) or trying to turn it in to a Hughton In/Out argument. The fact you use the few words you have written here to describe some posters as bellends and group of idiots speaks volumes.

[quote user="Thorpe end canary"]A great OP. I was wondering if the author feels the situation would be rectified by the return of the Messiah![/quote] Personally I wouldn''t want him back but thats an aside. In reality, I don''t think anything can change it. It would appear some characters have shown their colours to a point where certainly I wouldn''t want to waste my breath (motor skills) on them. Others will be inclined to challenge them so flashpoints will occur. Only 2 things can change the number of incidences and they would be Hughton going and Hughton suddenly turning into a decent manager. Even then there would be the told you so posts.

I think thats what scares me, I might actually know some of the people on here without realising!! Scary times. Tomorrow I will do some digging for examples. I do remember someone having a go at someone with an American username, might have been Houston but I think there are a couple more, said foreigners shouldn''t be allowed on this board or something like that!

My apologies, I just hate the direction this board is going at the moment. We all have our views but these are all borne out of our love for the club. Some of the stuff I''ve read on here recently beggars belief. While I''m an outer myself and I don''t agree with the views of inners, I respect that people holding the inner view believe that''s what is right for the club. I don''t actually follow who is in which camp be they an inner or an outer and if you asked me to name who I''m referring to I''d have to recheck threads. As far as I''m concerned, I don''t really care about the personalisation of it, I don''t know you personally so for me to know who "Nutty Nigel" is seems a bit pointless. What I do care about is that some seem to think it''s ok for people whose only crime is to seemingly share my outer view to have abuse hurled at them. Again, my apologies for the strong wording of the part at the end, I just don''t understand the mentality of someone who would occupy their day on an internet forum routinely dishing out abuse! Especially when we''re supposed to support the same team.

If we have to have any "told you so" posts can we please recognise that the sentiment behind these is against certain posters who blow their version of the in/out trumpet too loudly and obnoxiously. No-one here would prefer to be proven right about relegation over staying up, to suggest so is ridiculous and unhelpful. We''ve had posts in the last 2 weeks having a go at the people "coming out of the woodwork" after being quiet after the Spurs win and being accused of being happy they can say told you so. We have even had threads where the poster has turned concerns of "hang on, we''ve been here before, lets not get too carried away" after the Spurs game into not being happy unless we lose. Frankly that''s a bit embarrassing. Oh and a little tiny extra one - I don''t know what the posters who seem to sit on here and spew vile nonsense all day contribute to the real world outside this place but with the volume of posts involved, as well as not making a worthwhile contribution to this board, it would appear you aren''t making a worthwhile contribution to life either. Please find a way of rectifying this. Yours in hope Disallusioned with this board, Norwich