ged in the onion bag

No point to these threads at the minute… get behind the team….. He can only pick 11 players and at the moment priority has to be keeping a clean sheet!!! Stop putting pressure on Farke and he may be able to think straighter! We need to help build confidence (these threads don’t help at all) then build on that and integrate the newer lads. Tzolis is 19, in a strange environment and a brutal league… add in a team struggling with confidence and of course he isn’t ready, won’t be for a long time! Anyone expecting otherwise should look at the Liverpool game last week… he needs time. Farke is proven at getting the most from the youngsters…. But until we have two players in the squad with the attributes of The Skipp’s, Ndidi’s, Doucoure’s, we won’t be competitive enough to get the most from your Cantwell’s, Tzolis’s and Rashica’s. it’s that simple. Like it or not, this needs another rebuild. Need to get behind it since the players and Daniel are clearly just starting out on the process again! Change in personnel isn’t an option.

How about we don’t get rid, how about we just all do the unexpected, get behind the players and coaches regardless and give them the support they desperately need. It’s reasonable to appreciate that losing Emi and Ollie, then having to integrate 7 or 8 new players plus the start - this was always a very difficult task… we have to help the team… getting behind them is likely to get us results much sooner than moaning and criticising. We’ve come this far, may as well stick with it and hope DF learns quicker and gets more pragmatic.

To blame for what? Running the club well, improving the team, spending all that money??? We have a short term problem, quite a glaring one but it’s here and yes, Daniel could manage the team a lot differently, I for one wish he would at the moment, love to see us park the bus and get a clean sheet, take a 0-0 any day! But we didn’t replace the midfield properly on relegation, or since so don’t have strong athletic types and now too many faces to integrate at one time… Skipp was a mistake as we still have that big void in the middle! But it was done with the best intentions….. We make plenty of mistakes, it’s the way you learn hopefully. Yes things aren’t good, but there isn’t one constructive comment on this thread yet. Now is not the time to blame, Now is time for fans to step up, close these negative threads down and show support.

Time for all to get behind the team, these absolute garbage threads are doing absolutely no one any good except the binners! In the words of Chris Sutton, ‘yer better than that’ Where better than this!

It is if you’re an Ipswich fan and in your case I suspect the jury will be out on that one for a very long time! Suspect my expectations are realistic though! ….

Good luck with those expectations… what drivel! Nothing wrong with the Championship! Did you know we are the Champions, yep, twice on the trot!

I can absolutely agree with you on Buendia!

Different set up, Webber has much more role in running of our club. Point is be very careful what you wish for! Where are our club financially compared with so many others. Unless someone else could be guaranteed to do better, why change it when we’ve improved year on year! Yes it’s difficult at the moment, sometimes even embarrassing, but that’s for the club as well as us fans… at the minute the club needs its fans to step up even more, show some balls and get behind the players and coaches, stop the oh so predictable whinging / pant wetting and really show what brilliant fans this club has.

That’s very insightful, who is going to keep us in the Premier League when we’ve never managed it for any long period before? How about some meat on the bone of your point, how’s that going to happen? I’ll get it in now….. thought not! what makes fans so entitled to expect Premier League football? Who would have done a better job these past 4 years?

Quite enjoyed your post but why be so disgruntled! We’ve had two promotions recently and finances are pretty good compared with literally 80-90% of clubs… there are positives and given time we may have another attractive side. It may take a third Championship title even! Webber and Farke are trying but they remain young and inexperienced at this level, mistakes are inevitable. Not sure what your expectations are or who you think could improve it long term. Yes it’s tough for us fans, too often its bloody embarrassing but we are what we are and you just have to be Bigger Vince! No doubt everyone inside has the same frustrations. Put your chest out and if you are Yellow, embrace it! One things for sure, Daniel and his players need everyone of us now more than ever. Grief and negativity.is what binners would give them. We ain’t Binners!

Mel Morris out!!!! Say no more!

Two significant games have passed since posting this thread when clearly our naivety has been further exposed… but … and this is not a rant It’s historically difficult to bed in so many new players into such an unforgiving at times brutal League, and with all our additions so young and / or having no experience at this level, it’s virtually impossible! We are suffering from a failure to address the huge gaping hole in our midfield. It should have been addressed on relegation with permanent signings possessing characteristics of athleticism, strength and tenacity to replace Rupp, McLean and Tettey who were sadly not good enough. Instead we loaned and developed a player for Spurs who became so important to us that his absence has destroyed the team unit! Sorensen hasn’t even been trusted to see what he can do. After 10 straight defeats, we needed to garner some belief, avoid a complete kickin’ and do everything to make it difficult for opponents. It’s Liverpool, Man. City and Leicester for crying out loud…. just park the bloody bus!!!! Get the ball upfield, compete and defend from the front… It’s just blind faith and arrogance to think we can pass the ball out from the back and beat these teams, yes try to play against certain lesser teams when confidence is good but never against the top teams, it’s simply a case of 5 at the back and your biggest, bravest and athletic options across the park. Go 5-5-0 if necessary just close all the gaps and make it difficult, many a team did it against the great Barca side and picked up something. Put Adam and / or Josh up top and hope to nick one….. nothing against Teemu but he’s just not the physical unit for certain games. Familiarity helps in a team, picking the nucleus of last seasons group was essential then drip feed the new lads in. 7 new players for the Watford game, it’s suicide! Kabak had no pre-season and is nowhere near match fit…. He signed late, he’s not ready, shouldn’t be in the team yet…. and how must Giannoulis and Gibson feel, having played in those really tough fixtures with a faltering system and midfield in front of them only to be dropped so cheaply in my view! That’s two already with their confidence shattered. It’s a team game, if the team isn’t working, it’s tougher to play and unfair to blame individuals…… if we’d parked the bus and gone more direct, would Giannoulis have had such a bad game at the Etihad and got dragged? Probably not! It’s that classic, we’re following the same path and expecting to end up somewhere else! Our approach to football is only as good as the players and tactics and game by game they are getting worse… confidence is a cruel mistress an all that! There is now sufficient body of evidence that (for most games at this level) we can’t keep blindly following this game philosophy of passing out from the back…. not with these players at the moment… These midfielders aren’t good enough to break the press and take us forward, it’s compounded now confidence is on the floor. We need to get two players up top and get the ball forward quicker. The only way I can see us having any threat while maintaining some defensive stability is 3-5-2 for the most part and 5-3-2 (5-4-1 even) against the better teams. 4-4-2 even but not a chance with 4-3-3 even if it reverts to 4-5-1. Not suggesting I know it would work but we’d have a better goal difference and perhaps more belief. Then there are the in-game management situations, e.g corners, still no one has answered my question what is the point of Pukki and Gilmour in our box at corners. Neither of them will ever stop Konate or whoever getting a header on our goal and certainly won’t stop Salah or whoever netting from 20 yards when the ball drops out to them! On the pitch and tactically we are naive, naive to extraordinary levels. At 2pm prior to the Watford match, Merson on Soccer Saturday pronounced ‘I only see one result, Watford will sit back and just pick them off on the counter’. That’s pretty much how it went down…. No doubt we have some quality in there but it’s going to take a long time and great patience for us to see it. This will need re-building now. Daniel is showing increasing signs that the stress is mounting (e.g handling of Tzolis penalty was uncomfortable viewing) and regardless as to whether that’s mainly the result of his decisions and errors, he deserves the full backing of the support unconditionally, simply for what he’s done for our club. From a distance there seems a stubbornness to our continued strategy. Clearly in my view there’s a lot of simple things wrong, I hope Daniel finds a pragmatic way forward, right now though, he needs and deserves full support. What do the fans do? Complain, moan, act like normal fans when the going gets tough or … step up, accept the mess we are now in and get behind them, give them everything over and above. This is a young side and regardless, we need to protect them all, they are our assets and will all be feeling down, disappointed and pressured. We need to back off the grief and intensify the support, show all these glory hunters what real support is about! We need our ‘entitled’ fans, you’d think they are on here anyway to cut out the whining…. Please don’t bite if you think I’m referring to you! Regardless of what happens and for all his inexperience and mistakes, Daniel has my backing for as long as he keeps us in the top 26!

Just needs the 12th man…. Sing your hearts out for the lads!

Injuries didn’t help though, we did have some terrible misfortune throughout the season and too many couldn’t step up! certainly hope this group can.

Is this the Viz top tips section?

4-3-3 is neither offensive nor defensive with these players at present. 3-5-2 please, pretty please. Krul Omobamidele, Hanley, Gibson ..... (Kabak isn't near match fit apparently) Aarons, Normann, Sorensen (or Lees-Melou or McLean), Williams or Giannoulis if fit. Cantwell (central position ahead of midfield two) Pukki, Idah (or Rashica or Tzolis or Sargent)..... probably never been tougher for Daniel to select an eleven.

Anything we could do in the meantime to stop halt the continous run of defeats (nearing another unwanted record)! A weeks training won't help that much, sometimes it takes a full season for players to adapt to this league. We don't have the luxury of waiting around 10-12 weeks... by which time everyone else's confidence might be shot to pieces. Surely we need some pragmatic approaches to at least attempt to make teams think, be concerned, worried that we can threaten for the points.

Do hope you are right regards Normann and can't disagree generally although Van Wolfswinkel shouldn't be discredited... Hughton had him in a straight jacket. Hughton rarely managed to get us over the half way line, poor lad had no chance. Back to Normann though, we desparately need players (not one) to do what Skipp did. If Normann is what we need great but if he gets injured we become very lightweight again..... Thats why we need to check out 3 at the back.... would allow the full backs licence, we can go to two in midfield and include another offensive option. Something like.... Omobamidele, Hanley, Gibson (Kabak).... 3 from 4. Sorenson cover Aarons, Normann, Lees Melou or Gilmour, Giannoulis or Williams Cantwell (further forward) then two from.... Pukki, Idah, Tzolis, Rashica, Sargent. Given the players we have, we could be close to having something that works, its just this CDM position thats plagued us for so long. Skipps loan has hindered any development in this area, perhaps held Sorensen back too.

Not sure anyone is judging, rather debating if and where we could get more from the team, stop the rot of continuous defeats and reasoned suggestions is not a judgement. Off the pitch it’s reasonable to judge that we have had time since the last relegation to solve our CDM position and if there can be one criticism it’s that we’ve failed miserably with that position…. Only Spurs fans could argue otherwise. Norman isn’t in this argument yet as we’ve not seen him play and what if he gets injured?

Dont disagree with this but I am really referring to what is happening on the pitch at the moment.

Take it you’re not catholic then!

Quite often agree with your comments on here.... in this case though, I don't see how we were more pragmatic v Arsenal. We did concede a whole host of chances and eventually ran out of luck. We conceded numerous chances playing out with risky passes, that's not pragmatic so when we have to go long (as we do regularly once the press is on) then Pukki isn't the player to hold the ball up and so we struggle to get a foot in games. Surely Idah offers more in that regard, he certainly did the job well for Ireland last week. We can still play out with 3 at the back although we need players who can then receive and progress the ball in the central areas. The post doesn't advocate for a Burnley approach and we don't have the personnel for that, just some tweaks that might close up a few gaps whilst offering more threat going forward especially in the absence of holding midfielders. Surely, Watford fans would all argue few of ours would get in their team and to be fair they know as much about half of our team as we do.... not much! Excepting for a couple of managers, I don't know that many in the game fully appreciate what we are about and I am sure many do believe we are naive, especially in game management and tactics. I'm fully on board with what our club has done / is doing and wouldn't change most things but these finer margins I think there are easy gains with a few tweaks, I just can't work out some of the dynamics I see in our game. What do you think of having 10 players on our 6 yd line for corners and what do Pukki and Gilmour offer in that area? What's your thoughts on Pukki as a lone striker in this league, he's going to struggle for impact most weeks in my view? I know its early days and not time to judge, but there are points on offer each week, we need to give ourselves the best chance of getting those points, not just sit back and await a time when we do finally gel, it could be a long wait. Lets also face the fact that if we do 'get better at it' we are always going to be some way short of the quality most teams possess at this level.

...get the point you make and the post definitely doesn't suggest we give up on our way of playing.... but if the only answer is to get better at it, we could be relegated before the group gel.... surely there is some pragmatism needed when we've failed to get the quality of holding midfielders necessary and in the meantime to get us through and build some confidence..... we could be waiting a long time and there is no guarantee Normann or Kabak or the others will make a difference. Having 10 in our box at corners invites more opponents in and there is no out ball for the team. What is the point of Pukki and Gilmour in there anyway? Surely, mixing it up could help, make us less predictable, keep opponents guessing. Playing out from the back constantly isn't working, this league is a different level, we have to adapt, they've got our number and we can't get enough numbers forward to pose the necessary threat. In any event, we have tried to change formation, 4-3-3, not sure that formation will ever work.

...better get the train, driving home might be a problem!

Seems the pundits, even some of our own fans here have us as an irrelevant participant in this competition, already condemned to relegation, now a barometer (if you can’t beat them you do have a problem). On the face of it that seems unfair, difficult pre-season, horrible fixtures, too many new players… but every game has to be an opportunity for points, our season doesn’t start next week, it started 4 games ago and everything has an effect. Given how well the club is run, the improvement year on year, the financial situation, the entertainment value; on the back of such progress, being critical seems churlish. But its our club and it's tough when we seem to be ridiculed or sidelined for the most part in the media. We can’t keep giving ourselves excuses, making it easy for opponents… no, each game, surely we go to get points and compete but to often, we haven’t done that. Luck, we never get any, whether its Cantwell not interfering with McLean’s header last week or Aubameyang’s tap in. The fact is, despite players throwing themselves in the way to block efforts, if you concede 30 opportunities in a match then sure enough, you’ll encounter a lot more misfortune than if you allow 10-15 chances. Conversely, the more chances you create, the more luck comes your way, hence Arsenal won and Crystal Palace got the all important penalty against Spurs, pure luck but they made it happen. So, Man City away, why try to play out from the back and keep trying and keep putting ourselves under pressure, why risk dampening confidence, suspect Giannoulis isn’t feeling too great right now! Why play Pukki upfront when Idah can hold the ball up better and offer an option over the top to get us up the pitch? Why have 10 players on our 6-yard line at corners (in any game) and what is the point of Gilmour and Pukki in that line? Surely Gilmour on the edge of the box prevents a free shot at goal (Salah for Liverpool’s 3rd) and Pukki up front 1) gives us an out ball on the counter and 2) keeps one more opponent away from our goal and 3) gives us another option, makes us less predictable! Does it make sense for Pukki to keep receiving the ball half way in our own half? No, but perhaps it would with two up front. These are finer details we should be addressing / questioning. Shouldn't we start with the basics, make things difficult for opponents, get the ball further forward sooner, mix it up a little bit, opponents all know we'll pass it out and with our limited forward threat, they can confidently press to stop us. If we're going to mix it up, were probably better off 3-5-2 or 4-4-2, especially if were to get productivity out of Teemu. Counters are behind our full-backs, no Skipp / no cover! Would 3 at the back give us more coverage of the wide areas and allow full-backs some insurance to go forward, plus allow us to play 2 midfielders instead of the 3 which shows no signs it could work. Perhaps revisit the 3 when we can keep teams away from our goal and players have settled in. The most obvious problem last time out was our abysmal central midfield when McLean and Tettey were the last men standing of the bad bunch. What have we done about it since…. helped a Spurs player become the next Kante’ whilst our Lungi sits on his backside wondering if he will ever play football. At the very least, since that relegation, priority should have been 3 holding midfielders (whether we develop our own (Lungi) or bring them in) before any other position and this will potentially cost us our status again and reinforce the whipping boy reputation from afar. It’s definitely already cost us goal difference if not points! In fairness, I can put up with that and justify our club’s path no problem, but I want to see us up an at em! But we’ve failed to address this position, not sure we even have one player since Normann is untried and supposedly not a holding player… and since we look lightweight already, what happens if he gets injured. How do we stop this class of opponent, how do we get a threat further forward when we are so easy to counter against. Amazed Sorenson hasn't even had a look in to the extent not sure why he is still here! What's for certain is that this Watford game isn't the start of our season (the minus 10 goal diff. confirms that), the following week we will have another toughy! We must cut out the mistakes, change the shape, mix up the tactics, become unpredictable and above all stop conceding chances. Watford will press, they will smell blood like every other team. Couldn’t possibly pick a team from this group yet as we don’t know their abilities, level or fitness and its unfair to be critical of any player, time will tell. Would like to see us test formations though, at least see if 3 defenders might work better, try something different. Not sure trying something else is a risk in our situation. Has to be accepted that bringing a group of new players together with hardly any EPL experience and getting the team to gel in this unforgiving environment is some task. What we're expecting Daniel Farke to achieve is probably unreasonable. In so many respects he is fantastic but in the finer game details at this level I worry he still has a lot to learn / experience. Really would like to know what the thinking is about 10 in our 6 yd box at corners. That said, wouldn’t change him for anyone. Should we change the team to suit opponents, e.g is Pukki right for every game? I don’t think so. Are we naïve?