thebigfeller

[quote user="alex_ncfc"] What the hell do you know? Why do you come on here with all this crap? The club aren''t honest to their own fans, do you really expect them to tell everything to "the girl upstairs"? Absolute bollocks, of course the club asked Gunn to do the job. [/quote] What does Cam know? He''s a locally based journalist with excellent contacts - as opposed to you, some clown on a messageboard. Come on Cam! You must know how this place works by now! Alex, Cluck and others will make up all kinds of nonsense based entirely on their prejudices; if you don''t agree with them, you''re a head in the sand Percy Positive who''s brought this all on yourself. Gunn talked with his family at some length after the Barnsley game; then went to the trouble of contacting Crook and Deehan, in order to present a proper application to the board. The board didn''t expect it to happen, they didn''t ask for it - but were delighted when it did. I don''t think this present board could run a bath, and the responsibility for what is now pretty much inevitable lies entirely with them; but it is shameful, absolutely shameful, when trollers and idiots use Gunn''s appointment to smear and defame them just for the hell of it, and so they can get a little bit of attention in their sad little lives.

[quote user="Jim Smith"]I have nothing against Amnesty International and am sure they do a great deal of very valuable work. All I am saying is I am a football fan and when it comes to football then, within reason, I don''t really care who owns the club if they are succesful. Perhaps if we were owned by a bit of a b**tard instead of all nicy nicy the whole time we might actually win something.[/quote]Or to put it another way, you''d rather we weren''t actually a football club - but a whore.

I love replies like the one above. "I''ve not read your post, and have missed the point completely - so I''ll just quote it and insult you anyway". You, Sir, are why epithets like Normal for Norfolk exist.

Based on the OP''s location and the clues and timeline he provided, then if there is any truth in what he wrote, I think the individual in question is almost certainly Mr Human Rights himself, Dr Thaksin Shinawatra. He made national news by trying to take over Liverpool; Delia''s interview in the Guardian was in February 2007, before the game at Chelsea in the FA Cup; and Thaksin took Manchester City over (while others still remained on the board) that summer. The West Ham takeover happened almost a year earlier, if you recall.To my mind, it is preposterous to think that someone who almost bought one of the biggest, most famous clubs in the world, and ended up taking over one of the ten biggest clubs in England, would''ve been doing anything other than humouring our correspondent. What would''ve been in it for Thaksin to buy Norwich? Not a lot. Many Canary fans would have recoiled in horror, and events showed he was just biding his time and waiting for the right opportunity with a large Premier League club, not a Championship one.If someone was truly serious about investing in or buying us, would they honestly be put off by one measly interview in the press? Hardly. On the contrary - if it was Thaksin, Delia''s comments just gave him the excuse he needed to make his apologies to the OP: he was clearly never serious in the first place. There but for the grace of God go many, many football clubs: Manchester City found themselves in a calamitous position last summer, and to their immense good fortune, Thaksin managed to find uberwealthy buyers just weeks before the world as we know it changed. Had that been Norwich, heaven only knows what might have happened.

[quote user="Freeza"][quote user="thebigfeller"] let me assure you that I''ve been massively critical of this board for many years: ever since October 2005, indeed. [/quote] Very good post, you should write a blog mate, just out of interest what happened in October 2005?[/quote]I used to write a blog under my username: mainly during 06/7, but I lost interest in it eventually. What happened in Oct ''05? Luton and QPR away, and Sheffield Wednesday at home. We lost the lot, and I couldn''t believe it when we didn''t get rid of Worthington. 11 months of paralysis and fiddling while Rome burned followed.

There''s only one Martin Peters: I can''t disagree with much of that, mate. Are you the Martin Peters who posts on the Wrath, incidentally? He always talks sense, as you have above. In terms of Gunny''s appointment differing from that of the other clubs you''ve mentioned: well, sure. I was hardly happy about it myself. But candidates with prior, credible experience weren''t really available to us given our vastly reduced means: all would''ve been a gamble, and it''d have been a struggle big time to appoint any of them on a short-term contract and not commit ourselves to another huge pay-off should it go wrong. On Cullum: I absolutely agree we should''ve at least met with the man, and was furious when we didn''t - but his subsequent behaviour hasn''t suggested any real commitment on his part at all.Overall though, I broadly agree - and your suggestion in the last paragraph is excellent. I very much hope it''s pursued.

[quote user="Canary Fan"]I''m in broad agreement with you but walking away from the ground yesterday and mulling over the "What if''s" I started to think that maybe the best thing to happen would be relegation. Wait - hear me out! If we stay up I can only see us being in a similar dog fight next season. What will change? Where will the money come from to buy in the players we need? If we go down, we will lose all the loan players - fine. We would lose good players like Croft, Hoolihan and Clingan and anyone else who considers themselves above playing in League 1. But, hopefully we would keep a few of the experienced players like Doc, Drury and Cureton and they would be needed to bring on our youth members who are showing great promise. We''ve also got some bright prospects in the wings like the young lad from Dartford who should do well on that level and we''ll get some loanees of our own back who are currently doing well for other clubs. OK - so we stay in the lower league for a season (or two or three) to really consolidate but when we come back up we will come up with a team that are Norwich through and through with players who are proud to wear the shirt.[/quote]If by some minor miracle we stay up, I entirely agree: it will certainly be more of the same. The flaw in your argument, though, is while I think we would recover in time (hence the example of Sheff Wed), it''s hardly guaranteed - and we could easily end up marooned in the third flight for years.

[quote user="canari francais"]But letting the club slide into the lower reaches of the league doesn''t "create panic" or "drive offers doen" then?   What nonsense.If you were looking for a textbook on how NOT to run a football club''s finances you could do a lot worse than follow  MWJ/DS and all the rest of the board''s actions over the last 5 years.   In any case I do wish that people would stop harping on about Cullum/Harris. there is no evidence that anty such deal was ever on the table. [/quote]Letting the club slide into the lower reaches of the league through your own incompetence is awful and depressing - but a world away from actually imperilling the club''s very existence. We''re not in that position; we''re run badly, but hardly malevolently. And if we weren''t interested in doing due diligence on any prospective buyer (not that there are any out there), or selling out to the highest bidder without a second thought, that''d mean we were no longer a football club; but in fact a whore.

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]Then why continually use the term ''investment''? Why not just come out and say the club is for sale? I''m not suggesting this would make any difference to investment coming in, but it would clarify Smith''s position. Does she want to keep her toy or does she just want someone else to pay for it?[/quote]Openly stating the club is up for sale invariably creates panic, and drives offers down (not just for her shares, but what is intended to be put into the club too). Incredibly few clubs who''ve approached Harris have made such a declaration: it''s just not how it works. I certainly think she deserves to get her money back, by the way: but her overriding concern has always been whether any new buyer was another Giovanni di Stefano, or someone who could be trusted. I don''t think she''s wrong in that regard.

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]It tells you that no one wants to ''invest'' under Smith''s terms. At no point have they ever said they are looking for a new owner, just new investment.[/quote]You don''t go to Keith Harris unless you''re looking for a new owner. Various other much bigger clubs have gone to him too - yet nothing has happened. Is that because of their "terms" as well?

[quote user="......and Smith must score."]I would however take issue with you on one point. Delia Smith. I may be wrong but I get the impression that she has been the stumbling block in any attempt to take over the Club. We don''t know - and may indeed never know -  the reason why the Cullum interest came to nothing. That interest may well be resurrected in the near future but I suspect that had most of the other Board members, the long suffering MJW especially, would have been more than happy to have abandoned ship some time ago had Delia not been so keen to keep hold of her '' baby ''. Sadly it looks as though that obstinacy will be hers and the Clubs undoing.... [/quote]I wondered about that at the time - but certainly don''t subscribe to such a view now. You think having to find millions more in loans is fun, especially at her age? I always questioned how hard the board were actually trying to find new investment - but with regard to foreign ownership, the credit crunch has largely vindicated their stance.If we were ever made a proper offer by a fit and proper person (Cullum was a fit and proper person, but made no proper offer), I''ve no doubt at all Delia would just retire into the background. She''s had her time - and the board have run out of ideas. So they went to Keith Harris - yet nothing has materialised. Which should tell you all you need to know.

Or at least, that''s how it feels right now. I''ve been a Norwich City fan for 20 years now, and have never felt bleaker about where the club was heading. We''re down, folks - there''s no way we''re getting out of this. Whereupon administration could conceivably follow, the few decent players we have will be sold, and a rudderless club will hope to climb back out of the third tier, but with desperately little in the way of vision, direction or money to aid it.Do I blame the board? Sure - they''ve made all manner of terrible decisions over the past four or five years. We all know what they were: there''s no need to rehearse them yet again. I stop short at personally abusing them though, and find the behaviour of certain posters in that regard cringeworthy and incredibly naive. "Delia Out"? Fine - we obviously need a new broom and new ideas at the helm. Except no-one''s out there, and this thing you might have heard of called the credit crunch ensures that many other clubs at this and higher levels have little prospect of being sold in the foreseeable future.Which renders those who pride themselves on such empty gestures - not to mention attacking those who simply point out the reality - entirely pointless. When we protested against Chase, it was because a) we didn''t believe he had the club''s best interests at heart; and b) there was an alternative prepared to buy his shares we could coalesce around: namely, Geoffrey Watling. The present board are well meaning amateurs, but they''ll be as devastated by what''s happening as we all are; and we have no Watling figure this time. The one alternative we did seem to have has gone completely quiet, and may well be facing business problems of his own. It hasn''t stop people demanding Delia''s head in the hope he''ll miraculously ride to our rescue, but again, that''s just as empty and pointless given present economic circumstances. Football isn''t some computer game whereby those who shout loudest just magically get what they want. Should we have appointed Gunn? Depends on whether we could''ve afforded anyone better. Charlton, Southampton and Watford took cheap options too: it''s what happens to clubs who fall out of the Premier League and don''t get back. And yes, of course relegation will be a financial calamity - but where were the board supposed to magic the money up from - not just for a better-paid and better-qualified manager, but for a higher short and medium term budget with which to convince him to take the job? Thin air? Those smaller clubs performing much better than us at present are doing so mostly because their boards have access to considerably more money: all we can do is make do with what we have.It''s a depressing, demoralising, gut-wrenching situation. As soon as the board admitted they had no further ideas on where funding could come from, the game was effectively up: rudderless clubs drop to the bottom of the league and don''t stay up. Barring a new buyer appearing on the scene, the same problems will no doubt apply in League One too. Leicester have Mandaric''s money; MK Dons have funds they can access as well. There''s little prospect of us defying all logic and charging straight back up - and while I certainly don''t subscribe to the "new Bradford/Luton" prophecising on here, my best guess is we''ll end up following Sheffield Wednesday''s path. A horribly difficult first season down there, a huge reorganisation of the club, before we slowly, painfully find our way back.Until very recently, Wednesday had been ruined by off-field problems for many years. There was a smell of death about that club, just as there''s been about Norwich since May 2005 - but this never stopped their incredible fans getting on with it and adjusting to a new reality. Now, at last, things are starting to come good there, as they ultimately will at this club too. We''re too big and too special a club to stay down there forever: there is a tremendous amount of goodwill felt towards Norwich City from many other fans and clubs alike. There''s always hope, folks; it''s just that where we are at present hurts like hell and would have been unthinkable until pretty recently.One last thing. Before anyone dares accuse me of being a boardroom apologist, let me assure you that I''ve been massively critical of this board for many years: ever since October 2005, indeed. I''ve scarcely been able to believe their incompetence on occasion, and would have jumped at the chance of someone new buying the club. But at present, it''s simply not an option - and I''ll be damned if our joint majority shareholder is actually going to be attacked for loving the club so much that she''s gone back to work to find more funds with which to help keep us afloat. The epitaph of the Smith and Jones time at the club is simple: mere love of the club just isn''t enough; nor is access to moderate levels of cash. Competence, ruthlessness, real footballing expertise, a lot more money and above all, the right decisions are all far more important - and on that, the board have been found sadly wanting. Leaving us are where we are this bleak Sunday morning: fans apathetic and resigned to our fate; board without the foggiest idea how to prevent it.

I did the BBC Predictor yesterday. I expect Charlton to put together something of a late revival, but for it still to prove too little, too late; Southampton to finish bottom, and the final spot to rest between ourselves and Plymouth. I''ve a hunch we''ll go to the Valley knowing that a win will keep us up - just like Fulham in other words. Predictions as follows:Burnley (h) L 0-2Coventry City (h) D 1-1Queens Park Rangers (a) L 0-1Blackpool (a) D 1-1Cardiff City (h) W 1-0Plymouth Argyle (h) W 2-0Birmingham City (a) L 0-1Sheffield Wednesday (h) L 0-1Swansea City (a) D 1-1Watford (h) W 2-1Ipswich Town (a) L 1-2Reading (h) L 0-1Charlton Athletic (a) L 0-1Down, I''m afraid. Walsh has us winning our final three games, meaning he thinks we''ll beat both Ipswich away and Reading at home. Which, I''m sorry, just ain''t going to happen.

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"]Ah, the latest Board apologist and Delia lacky rears his ugly head. We did a lot with our parachute payments didn''t we? And ask yourself why these other clubs have been able to attract investment, and yet lil old Norwich have not, despite "actively" seeking it?? Cardiff City, on gates of 18000, seemingly able to bid 2.5 million for Matt Derbyshire, NCFC, on gates of 24500, can''t even spare that to rebuild the whole team, which was required for this season. Thats why we''re at the bottom of the league and Cardiff have a shout of getting in the playoffs. You are either one ot the lates stooges to be put on here to defend the Board, or you are seriously deluded. But don''t worry, you haven''t met "The Prisoner" yet, and once you do, your arguments will turn to dust. [/quote]And of all the clubs you could''ve chosen, you come up with Cardiff City - owned by one P. Ridsdale. The same Peter Ridsdale who almost ruined Barnsley as he ruined Leeds; and who could be found arguing against a salary cap in the Guardian the other month. Cardiff were able to bid what they did for Derbyshire because they sold Glenn Loovens for £2.5m in the summer!If I''m a board apologist, what was I doing writing scores of scathing blogs, posts on the Wrath and here and absolutely lambasting Mick Dennis on Waghorn''s site the other month? What was I doing criticising their awful decisions on 606 a week ago? But I forgot, this is the PinkUn after all - posters are either all apologists/poodles/Percy Positives or realists/modernisers/winners, aren''t they? Never allow any shades of grey to get in the way: there''s trolling to be done and playground fights to be won.We wasted the parachute payments. Worthington spent a stupid amount on rubbish; the board dithered helplessly; then they got the next appointment woefully wrong. But unless Mr Chops is correct in what he''s posted tonight, what is your alternative? We''re up for sale as it is: they know we need considerable new investment. But in its absence, we have to make to with what we have - and nothing whatever is achieved by going over old ground. If you get into financial difficulty, do you spend your life regretting the decisions which led to it or cut your cloth and get on with it? Moreover, do you expect someone to magically come forward and bail you out? I think we should be told.

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]Sadly nout has changed... only Gunn is the latest victim to be hung out to dry.......[/quote]So what''s your solution then, Cluckyboos? Perhaps you''d rather we''d appointed no manager at all - or that we tried to sell the club to someone who no longer wants to buy us? In either case, I salute the sixth sense you clearly have which is beyond the grasp of us lesser mortals.

[quote user="Herb"]I understand why we have no money. But!Why has the board insisted over the last 2 or 3 seasons on saying "Promotion is our aim for this season" That''s what''s put people''s nose out of joint. Cos some of them (lots of them?!) actually believed it.Agree with your first post 100% though.[/quote]What else are they supposed to say?! "21st place is our aim this season"? Imagine the reaction if that happened? They have to try and excite the fans: it''s their job. We''ve all known talking about promotion represented the clutching of straws on a mass scale - but equally, you have to have hope. Premier League football remains the club''s goal, however distant and far removed it seems unless we''re taken over.

[quote user="Bury Yellow"]It''s difficult to argue with your analysis bigfeller. My worry is that gradually there are local reporters and others within the game starting to question the boards decision. I too understand that Gunny wasn''t the first option but we must just hope that he can make a success of it. I actually feel he will but don''t ask me why. BTW bigfeller heard your bit on 606 with Claridge the other night. Very good and not a bit like a Canary Caller!![/quote]Hehehe: cheers mate! Claridge is a horrendous presenter, but a passionate, knowledgeable chap - and I''d like to think he could at least see where I was coming from. Of course, I wanted someone experienced myself at that point - but having weighed things up, and especially after reading those accounts about Boothroyd''s time at Watford, I''m happy enough. There''s nothing wrong with questioning the board over this at all. Their judgement has been way, way off in recent years - and if we go down, there''ll be nowhere for them to hide. Which is what makes this appointment so courageous in so many ways. For the record, I do think we''ll stay up - though have a tough time envisaging Gunn as a medium or longer-term choice. My best guess is, come the summer, there''ll be something of a reorganisation with Gunny becoming more like a General Manager, and Chippy (or A. N. Other) taking responsibility of the team.

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"] Uh, because most other clubs in this divsion seem to be able to? And they don''t happen to have 20,364 season ticket holders? Funny that, they must all have magicians or miracle workers on the payroll... [/quote]Except that no, they''re not able to. Actually, Roeder was given a decent budget in terms of wages - he wasted it on too many loans. Clubs in this division only find money via:a) EPL parachute payments (Reading, Birmingham, Sheffield United (three of the current top 4: funny, that), Derby, Charlton, Watford (oh dear in all cases))b) New investment (Hull last season, Sunderland and Derby the year before, Ipswich (or so it seemed!), Cardiff, QPR, Sheffield Wednesday before long, Wolves when Morgan took overThe rest of us have to make to with what we have. Yes, the board have invested too much in real estate: equally, without the gates we now enjoy, where would we be? More specifically, it comes down to recruiting the right managers and for them to recruit the right players. We''ve been sorely lacking in that department for far too long - which is why we are where we are. Parachute payments gone, and no new investment forthcoming - in which case, going back to basics and getting everyone pulling in the same direction for the benefit of the whole club has to make sense.

[quote user="kdncfc"]You are right in much of what you say but the fact remains that we don''t have any money and until we get some it would be almost impossible for  Jose Mourinho to achieve much with the squad we have at the moment. Doncaster is spouting off in the press about how our transfer budget was spent before Grounds or Cort came in and how having to pay Roeder and co off has made that hole in our finances even deeper. No mention of any impending investment which for me is crucial if Gunny is to have a chance of turning things around, there will still be many who are undecided whether to renew their tickets and much as I admire Gunny and wish him all the luck in the world it''s hard to see how he is going to do much better than Roeder if he has to again rely on the loan market for players. I will be behind the team as I always am until the end of the season but as things stand with no money to speak of I am fearful that once the new manager effect wears off we will struggle again next year without money to bring in our own players. [/quote]I suspect we''ll get a couple of loans in. Not ideal, I absolutely agree - but needs must! I also think the players we have are good enough to be at least in lower mid-table; and a manager who is positive, encourages them and doesn''t alienate the fans is far, far more likely to get the most out of them than someone like Roeder.

[quote user="Loan City Fc "]There is no money, no investment , a squad as bad as any we have had lately probably worse , no striker except the third rate Cureton and the waste of space Cort and a manager who used to arrange the sponsorship . We are relegation certainties and have been since the season started , Gunn has been appointed so the fans dont get too nasty when the inevitable happens.[/quote]Wrong. Gunn''s been appointed to try and re-unite the club, and get some sort of feelgood factor back which can only benefit the players. If we are ''relegation certainties'', what exactly are Charlton, Southampton, Watford, Doncaster, Derby, Blackpool or Barnsley? Unless it''s now eight down this season.We have no money. Why do people seem to think we can just miracle it up out of nowhere? No money meant Ince wasn''t interested; it means the club can''t afford to give someone (and his coaching staff) three year contracts with all that entails; it means the club absolutely has to try and maintain high ST sales. So we''ve made a pragmatic, short-term appointment to try and get us through this. If it goes wrong, it''s the board who''ll get all the flak - as they well know.

Over on Wrath of the Barclay, I''ve been a pretty constant critic of the board these past few years. Goodness knows, they''ve made mistakes: big ones. And when I first heard of Gunny''s appointment, I thought it was more of the same. Cheap option, a sop to the fans, gambling with our Championship future given much better-qualified candidates had been interested too.On reflection, my first reaction was wrong. It''s actually a brave, courageous appointment: one for which Gunny, Chippy, Dixie and the board all deserve credit. That Ian Crook and John Deehan have been brought in shows the board know how risky this is; ditto the proposed review of things come the summer. These are men of character, integrity and passion, who will connect with the fans and give their utmost in the cause of keeping us in the Championship. Moreover, Roger Munby''s failure to deny that Paul Ince had been offered the job strongly suggests he was; but that Ince turned it down because of lack of funds.We''re all cheesed off about the financial waste since we were relegated. But given we frittered away those two crucial seasons with parachute payments, we''re left in a tough, tough situation: like Charlton, Southampton and Watford. Look at these three clubs'' recent appointments. Charlton are so skint they gave the job to a caretaker with an appalling record. Saints appointed someone nobody had heard of during the summer, are a club at war with itself with fans violently turning on each other, and are a complete shambles, with Jan Poortvliet resigning tonight. And Watford, up the creek after quite staggering mismanagement under Graham Simpson and Adrian Boothroyd, entrusted their future to an unproven, largely unheralded coach: a gamble which so far hasn''t worked one bit.This is the reality of life near the foot of the Championship. The board cannot miracle the money up from nowhere - and while we''re all frustrated about how things panned out during the summer, some of Peter Cullum''s recent comments - as well as the belt tightening everyone has to do in the current climate - suggest we may actually have dodged a bullet. This was certainly true in Boothroyd''s case. I wanted him appointed together with Malky Mackay, but again, I now think I was wrong. Over the last couple of days, I''ve been emailed the highly illuminating views on Boothroyd and how Watford have been run of both the Watford Observer''s main correspondents, one of whom covered the club for several decades. Although it''ll take you ages to work through it, so I wouldn''t recommend it unless you suffer from insomnia, you can find it here:http://www.wfc.net/qa.htmIt''s utterly damning stuff: both of the disgraceful, Stalinist way in which Watford were run under Simpson and the terrifying amounts of money chucked away over the past couple of seasons, but also of Boothroyd''s freezing out all his players at one point or another, desperately poor signings, sacking of all sorts of figures who''d previously enjoyed a long relationship with the club (sound familiar, anyone?), complete lack of a Plan B, inability to listen to anyone else''s advice, God-awful football, overly-powerful position at WFC, and his reputation within the game. The main source quotes Aidy as being less popular in football than even Neil Warnock or Tony Pulis! And given all this, maybe we can better understand why Malky was happy to stay with Watford, so weakening Boothroyd''s case to be given the job?Lack of funds ruled out Ince; many, many factors (hoofball in particular) ruled out Boothroyd. The club desperately needs to ensure season ticket uptake doesn''t fall - and to allow us all to feel enfranchised and part of things again. When you look at Charlton, Southampton and especially Watford, you realise we''re not so badly off after all. At least we have a board who care, don''t freeze out the local press and have done marvellous things off the field. Until a buyer comes forward, we''re stuck with them, for better or worse - and in such a context, I think they''ve done well, very well, in taking the decision they have.Concerns and worries are fine, and only natural. This is a gamble: no doubt about it. But as near as dammit, we have our club back again - and if the atmosphere last Saturday is anything to go by, it''ll be a lot happier, more enjoyable and more like the Norwich City Football Club we all know and love. Good luck Gunny, well done the board - and OTBC!