Davo

[quote user="Ketts Rebel"]Interesting though that in answer to my original question there definitly not universal support for an English club. I guess the world has changed..maybe we feel more european now? or we resent the corporate club ownership which exists today? [/quote] My dislike of the English clubs is mainly to do with the media. It''s the over saturation of what used to be the "big 4". A few years ago before Man City come along and Liverpool descended into a mediocre Prem team that was all you ever heard about. No other club in the country mattered except those 4 teams at the top of the Prem. Frankly it put me off football for a while and it got to the stage where if Norwich wasn''t involved then I wasn''t interested. It''s a fair bit better now that those teams have been broken up by two others. Although the only reason why I pay any attention to the Prem is because we are there. DAvo

I always used to support the English team up until about 5 years ago. When it got to the stage where it was always a couple of English teams in the semi''s and they were always playing each other I got fed up with the hype and coverage. Now I support who ever is playing the nicer football. I loved watching Athletic Bilbao last year they were a joy to watch. Davo

One thing you are forgetting is that no team outside of Manchester is mathematically safe  so therefore every team from 3rd downwards is able to get relegated - Fact

[quote user="singupcarrowroad"] Who they play on the 10th. We play on the 9th. So technically, we will go 10th for 24 hours if we get three points.[/quote]True but this is similar to those posts earlier in the season where people were saying with one more win we could go 7th. That didn''t happen either.Personally I don''t really look at the table until Monday. I don''t care where we are for a 24 hour period because we have won/lost/drawn whilst those around us are yet to play that weekend.Davo

This is also only on the condition that Stoke don''t get a point at Newcastle. Plus both West Ham and Fulham will have a game i n had.I like the optimism but it''s unlikely given our record against Southampton.Davo

[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"][quote user="ncfc4lyf1"]Heard numerous people saying "Kamara" will be awful etc... at least give him a chance, and now there''s absolutely NO negative talk about him after scoring 1 goal... Correct he''s a cracking player from we''ve seen, but it seems as though 40 minutes of football has changed peoples minds of how good this lad is.[/quote] I can''t believe I''m responding to this, but Mrs Beard is out and I''m fed up with the washing up. I dont think anyone hated KK did they? They would be idiots if they did. But a few might have been somewhat uncertain about a player from the MLS who has not been taken on after other trials in the UK. And they still might be.   We will all be able to make a better judgement after KK has played 10 or so games. [/quote]Agreed, he''s done well so far but it''s too soon to claim him a failure or the new messiah. What it is not too soon to say though is that he seems like a top guy who enjoys what he does and is grateful for the chance to do it in the league we are in.Davo

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]  If my list of "legends" was two dozen long instead of one dozen then Crook might well get in, particularly as a symbol of that Stringer passing side. [/quote] Here we have another factor that determines how people think of a legend. For me Crook is a legend. I only have a 1/2 dozen heroes and 3 of them were in our side against Bayern.  That same team was the one I was watching as a boy of 9 and 10 years old. After that are only 3 legends, one Eadie is more of a boy hood idol. Iwan and Hucks being the other two. You have been watching our side longer than I have so have seen more players who have made that grade of being a legend. I don''t think many will argue that during the late 90''s and the 00''s we didn''t really have too much to cheer about at times so it''s harder to pick out any legends from that time. Davo

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Davo"][quote user="nutty nigel"] I guess there is no right or wrong in this debate. I tend to agree more with Hootenanny than others. For me Ron Davies and Iwan Roberts can''t possibly be in a hall of fame in front of Holty. Purple has them there. In this case surely we can all be right?     [/quote]   We are all right as this is a thread purely about opinion. There are no facts, stats or defined criteria what what one must achieve to become a "Club Legend".   Davo [/quote]   I think we can all agree on one thing. Whatever the criteria might be they have to be a great deal more stringent than those for the club''s ludicrously bloated "Hall of Fame". Just from the As and Bs Neil Adams? Max Briggs?? Ollie Burton??? [/quote]   Can''t disagree with your point there. Although it does make me wonder if you had of got to C would you of mentioned Crook?   Davo

[quote user="nutty nigel"] I guess there is no right or wrong in this debate. I tend to agree more with Hootenanny than others. For me Ron Davies and Iwan Roberts can''t possibly be in a hall of fame in front of Holty. Purple has them there. In this case surely we can all be right?     [/quote]   We are all right as this is a thread purely about opinion. There are no facts, stats or defined criteria what what one must achieve to become a "Club Legend".   Davo

Che''s right hand man said: Depends what you define a legend is?   This is a key question. I guess if you are the kind of person that votes Dean Ashton and Holt into the club hall of fame then sure Hoolahan is a legend. I''m not really that kind of person. To me legendary status is only given once a player has left the club (either retirement or because they move on to new pastures). Legends are also players that have had an impact beyond anyone else, they are the greatest of our players, thhose few who you will still talk about in glowing terms when you are old.   Huckerby was the last legend. He acted like a professional who cared about the club as more than just another employer. He was outspoken at times and criticised the club when it was needed. The way he acted when he was treated so badly showed pure class and he kept his promise never to play against Norwich. He had an imact in his first season and played in such a direct attacking style of football that made watching him so exciting. I am not sure we have had any player since that is comparable.   The reason why I don''t see Hoolahan as a legend yet is for two reasons:   a) He is still playing and there is still time for him to improve or destroy his status b) For me he is not at the same level as Hucks and to call Hoolahan a legend would diminish Huckerby''s standing in my eyes.   Davo

[quote user="pete"]Rumours Howson to start, we will not win now, draw unlikely.  Howson done nothing all season send him back to Leeds.[/quote]Are you going to admit you were wrong now?Davo

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="singupcarrowroad"]Was a shocker. Bradley Johnson couldn''t pass the ball, Holt kept messing around in defence, Hoolahan skinned fifteen players (ten of theirs, five of ours) before skying it over the bar from two yards, and in the 94th minute it took a Jed Steer wonder save to keep out that bloke from the Brady Bunch. Bunn got injured on the 22nd, Holt dropped a dart on his toe.[/quote] you must have been watching a different game, it was end to end for the full 90 minutes, both goalkeepers layed like Superman and the Mass brawl that occured was certainly lifting the atmosphere to fever pitch. Cant remember Last time Carrow road was so noisy.. definite red cards for Osman and Bassong.. you cant defend that kind of behaviour... [/quote]   There''s nothign unusual here, two people watching the same match but coming out with two versions of what actually happened. I think I will just wait for Ricardo''s report he''s normally reliable when it comes to match reports.   Davo

[quote user="nutty nigel"] Worthy brought on a defender in the play off final and we conceded a goal which ultimately lost it for us. He has been criticised because of the result. If he''d not made that substitution and we''d still conceded he''d have been criticised for not doing. Hindsight makes criticism that much easier and a manager should only really be judged on his results and league position when measured against realistic expectations. [/quote]   Nutty in that particular case I think Worthy was seriously unlucky. He made a decision to use our final substitution with the game at 1-0. If I remember correctly didn''t Three Lungs then suffer an injury almost immediately afterwards that left him bascially walking around the pitch as he couldn''t run meaning we were bascially down to 10 men?   Davo

[quote user="morty"]The fact that a foreign team owner can use a British club basically as his reserves is just ludicrous.I, obviously wrongly, assumed there would be rules and safeguards preventing this situation.[/quote]Morty this is football when have there ever been safeguards and rules about ownership? Only country I know with them is Germany.[quote user="Number 9"]This situation with Watford has been such for a while now, surely the issue is whether two clubs in Europe can be owned by same entity. Imagine if watford and udinese both qualified to play in European competition, more questions than answers.[/quote]There would be an UEFA investigation much like Abramovich went through.http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2004/aug/27/championsleague200405.championsleagueThe murky thing here is that according to this next article no one knew at the time who actually owned CSKA.http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/923-Europe/1905-roman-knowsMurky world indeed.I would think that giving what I have heard on the World Football phone in from an Italian journo that Watford woudl probably be withdrawn from any european competition in favour of Udinese as they are the priority.[quote user="Aggy"]I''m not sure about this AJ, but I had a feeling even loans from Scotland counted as ''international'' loans. I''ve got a sneaky feeling it came up for us during the Roeder period (not sure who for).[/quote]It did and the player was John Kennedy. I think we probably have Sibierski, Troy Whatshisname and Bertrand playing plus Kennedy or some other no mark loanee.Davo

Given that I think most of the players on loan at Watford are also from Udinese and Granda there is little the Football League can do to stop this from happening. All the Pozzo family have to decide is to change these "loans" to transfers. You can imagine the conversation:   Mr Pozzo (Watford owner): I am no longer allowed to loan your players so please can I buy them? Mr Pozzo (Udinese & Granada owner): Sure you can buy them, I will sell you them for a sack of footballs. There is one condition though, that we have the first option to buy them back at any time for the price of a sack of footballs. Mr Pozzo (Watford): Deal   Obviously there is some risk that the player may refuse to move in either direction but who is to say they can''t insert a clause in to the players contract either?   Davo

I think the club need to focus on a buying in a blanace of youth and experience. We need to buy experienced players who are able to come straight into the team but I do feel we also need to invest in some younger players who we can develop and then sell on for a large profit. Much like Wigan did with Victor Moses. With that aim in mind I would say Will Hughes of Derby. He looks very good and for someone so young he is able to dominate midfield in the Championship. I think right now he''s good enough for a place on the bench and would soon be pushing for a starting place.   Davo

djc you are right however I think Aggy''s point is right too just poorly explained. It''s harder to pick up points as a small fish in a big pond than it is as a big fish in a medium pond. Would Malky have such a high average point per game ratio with the same squad in the Prem? Would Hughton have the same point per game ratio in the Championship with the squad we have?Davo

[quote user="The Walking Man "]I enjoy the quote at the end where Chopra''s strike partner Jay Emmanuel Thomas calls Chopra a clown! Odious little club with equally odious players.[/quote]I enjoyed that bit too.Davo

[quote user="a1canary"]I didn''t say a club has actually blocked a takeover - i said fans of some clubs have bought up shares... in response to a takeover in order to acquire enough (one day!) to prevent it happening again or to have some influence when it happens again.[/quote]But that''s the point I think purple is trying to make. Unless the fans group has a share holding of greater than 50% they can''t stop any take over. Under stock market rules once someone buys 30% of shares they have to make a bid for all the remaining shares. Now people don''t have to sell at this point however every share holder will receive a bid.So the only way a supporters group can have any influence is by having a share holding greater than 50% and to all be in agreement 100% of the time when it comes to take over bids. This could be a realistic target at smaller clubs but it''s not very realistic when you are talking about the majority of clubs Championship level and above.Davo

[quote user="a1canary"] [quote user="norfolkchance1"]Further to this it always amazes me that some of Evertons fans are so desperate for investment from anywhere, when in reality they have owners who care passionately about the club. They use their resources wisely and they stick with their manager when things have looked bleak.[/quote] Thought exactly this many times. They seem to want some sort of Hicks and Gillette takeover despite the cautionary tale on their doorstep. [/quote]   Is that because they see themselves as the next Man City or Chelsea? A club that had success in the past but is over shadowed by a bigger ore sucessful city rival?   Davo

It''s not just that they don''t give a fig about football it''s that they are completly clueless about how football really works. They think that because they watch Manyoo Chelski etc. on TV that they know how football works. You can throw £20 mill at a championship team to spend on players in one off season but that doesn''t guarantee you promotion over a team that spent 1/10th of that.   Then they think that players from their own leagies are good enough (Abramovich soon learnt that there aren''t many russian players good enough for the EPL). Or they get some guy who played for Indonesia and now earns a living spouting the same gumpf that Hanson, Lawro and Shearer do and think he''ll be the best person to advise them. Imagine if Delia bought in Lawro as Special Advisor of Football? It''s their money they are playing around with but it''s the fan''s club.   Davo

Given the price of new shares and the puny amount of my dividend it would take me years to save up for even one share.   Davo

I am the same as you. I don''t know but I am planning on ringing the club tomorrow to find out. In my case I had these shares brought for me and I would prefer the club to have the dividend.Davo

I can''t disagree with you there. I don''t know how much we bid for him or what Celtic wanted exactly and those who have been paying attention know the 9.2 mill figure came from a reported bid that actually never happened.It is good to see that McNally wasn''t to be taken for a mug as 10mill could of  been a gross over payment. Obviously until a player has come in and played for a club for a while you don''t know how whether any transfer is a bargain, overpriced or a complete waste.Davo

[quote user="lincoln canary"]I can''t really comment on the Kamara, however if Stoke didn''t rate him than that doesn''t bode too well.[/quote]Is this the same stoke team that also rejected Demba Ba who instead moved to West Sham with the rest being history?Davo