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Yelverton Yella

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Everything posted by Yelverton Yella

  1. [quote user="The Butler"]The walk down Riverside Road for an evening game, joining the workers as they left Boulton and Paul and LSE, from the other way the Reckit and Colmans factory. All added to the atmosphere of anticipation and excitement. We walked together,stood together, laughed and cried together. Left the match at the end and walked away chatting to supporters either ours or theirs, didn''t matter, no hassle. Now it all seems plastic and false. Totally estranged from OUR club. Yes DS is to blame but so in a way is so called progress! [/quote]I''m sorry but I still think that rose (or green and yellow) tinted spectacles are being employed here. Yes, fans threw coins in the blanket and contributed through various lotteries, draws, socials etc. but those were desperate times and I wouldn''t mind betting that, if the bailiffs were at the door today, there would be those who would respond accordingly- in fact, you could say the share issue was the modern day equivalent of chucking coins in a blanket.The heyday of the supporter''s social club was at the time when most organisations had clubs of their own (Colmans, Mackintoshes et al) and alternative entertainment and personal transport was limited and I don''t think the gradual dying out of these can be laid at the door of the current NCFC regime- it''s just social change and ''progress''.Looking back, yes, the atmosphere does seem great but it is also true that we were young and experiencing these things for the first time- who''s to say that my kids don''t feel the same way now when they walk from County Hall car park or along Riverside to the ground?The fact is that there were dire days back then just as there are now with miserable goalless draws fought out while the rain steadily soaked through your mac and the wind cut through the terraces like a knife. Yes, of course there were the good days too- beating Chelsea- Osgood and all- twice (after the first match was abandoned because of fog!) amd many more but there was also the terrifying violence with, for instance, the Northampton fans running amok through the River End hurling half bricks at all and sundry. It was by no means all sweetness and light!Society has changed, all seater stadia are compulsory and the modern fan would not put up with the ''facilities'' that we did. Inevitably, the atmosphere is different- 25,000 in an all-seater stadium does not compare with 35,000 standing pressed against each other- and all the pre-match forced jollity does have a plastic feel to it but to blame the change of atmosphere entirely on the current owners is ridiculously one-eyed just as it would be if I said you could trace all the ills back to Archie McCauley, Robert Chase, John Bond or whoever you want to pick as your favourite scapegoat.I absolutely respect people''s memories and have a bag full of my own but we have to come to terms with the present day and try to help fashion new traditions in the 21st century and perpetuating myths of times long gone is not the right way of going about it. I have already said, many times, the present regime have had their day and I would love to see a new owner but, until that time comes, I shall, as ever, support the team to the utmost and try not to fall victim to believing that all was right in the ''good old days'' or that those days can, for better or worse, ever return...
  2. A very interesting thread because it highlights very clearly the divisions that exist amongst certain sections of the fans (or at least those who post on here).There seems to be a hankering for the far-off days when, apparently, all was well and the club ''belonged'' to its supporters.Well, forgive me if you remember further back than me but I first started supporting NCFC as an 8 year old in 1959 during the Cup Run when my Dad used to disappear on the coach to exotic trips to places like Luton and the City was a sea of yellow and green....The thing is, social conditions were different then. Nobody ever dreamed that they owned the club or could have any say in how it was run. If you saw one of the directors, puffing a fat cigar and attired in a fur coat (courtesy of Sir Arthur South''s shop- Brahams Furrier) you were more likely to touch your forelock than believe you had a right to ask them what the hell they were doing with the club- and if you had done, you would more than likely have been given a clip round the ear from a bobby for being cheeky!Nobody actually gave the ordinary fan any consideration. We stood, in the open, on crumbling concrete steps, packed in like sardines fortified only by the man selling sweets from a tray round his neck. If you needed to relieve yourself, you queued for ever to do so in a stinking, uncovered, shed with an open drain.Yes, we loved going to the footy- of course we did, it was our team and our heritage and it was what we did (as a family) on Saturday- but there were just as many grumbles on the terraces then as there are now. If I had an (old) penny for every time I''ve heard players described as ''caartosses'' or the manager as ''f***ing clueless'' I''d be a rich man.Where there was a major difference is the closeness to the players. Their earnings were not so far removed from ours and, after the match, fans and players alike would congregate in the Mustard Pot (rather than a VIP lounge) for a pint and to talk about the game. Players like Graham Paddon or Duncan Forbes would quite happily discuss their and the team''s strengths and weaknesses and take the stick if, say, they had missed a penalty.The point of this ramble is that, really, if things have changed, they have, largely, changed for the better. Whoever owns the club now feels that they have to take some account of the fans'' views and provide decent amenities for them- they didn''t in the ''old days''! The fact is that the club never ''belonged'' to the fans and probably never will. In its crudest terms it is an entertainment and leisure business belonging to its shareholders that will seek to retain and satisfy its customers as far as it can whilst attempting (!) to maximise returns. On these criteria, the real problem with the current regime is that they have failed both targets and should recognise this and cede control to owners or, at least, Directors, who can.Let''s be quite clear about this, though, whoever ultimately owns the club will not be running it for your benefit or mine so don''t assume a change of ownership is the panacea for all ills!
  3. Interesting to hear your comments about morale and team spirit. Sounds like a real vindication of the concept of a pre-season tour. Well worth the cost in my opinion!
  4. Thanks Tom. An excellent report. Really appreciate you taking the time to post. Just jealous that you were able to go and see it..
  5. [quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]because NCFC have never benefitted from loan players have we? They are a part of the game and one we should exploit,  rather than repeat what we have done over the last season or so,   which was to depend on them. [/quote]Exactly right. The key for the new season has got to be balance- something we haven''t had for a few years. A mixture of young and more experienced players, a good coverage of all positions and the odd season long loan IF they add something we could not otherwise find/afford.We might also need to use the emergency loan system to cover injuries etc and I don''t have a problem with this as long as the ratio of loanees to contracted players does not become skewed.
  6. Its fact! It was Doncaster''s analysis and was published in the local newspapers a few months ago. BTW it was actual spend and not a budget. As for the spend re the Scotland trip, if we had Premiership or Championship sized budgets then it wouldn''t be an issue. May I suggest that people remember we are now a Division 3 (old money) club with a much smaller resource base. TFAI was not suggesting that your figure was not correct, merely that, in the absence of a quoted source, I was accepting it at face value.I am glad to hear the figure was an ''actual spend'' and thus related to our historic expenditure as a Championship club. I would assume that the new budget figure will be carefully scrutinised to ensure it reflects our straitened circumstances.I would still be interested to know how much of the £800k related to (one presumes, essential) medical expenses as opposed to travel and accommodation since there is the risk of creating mountains out of molehills if, say £700k was spent on keeping players fit and on the field (i.e. football related on-field expenditure) rather than putting them up in luxury in a shared room at a Travellodge for an away game.Oh and, by the way, I am still a great supporter of the Scottish tour for all the reasons previously outlined and consider the money well spent.Apart from anything else, I am not quite sure that bringing triallists to Pontins for a kickabout on the beach would help them make up their minds that we are a serious club for whom they might like to play.
  7. [quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="Yelverton Yella"][quote user="Jim Smith"] I think he is highly rated. I was told about him by someone at the club 3 years ago when he was 14/15 and had been identified as the big hope coming out of the academy. As I have said in another thread the fact they are prepared to chuck him in there as the only proper midfielder against an SPL teams shows that the management team must have some real faith in him. He is not a footballer type either. Clever lad and local as well so would hopefully have some loyalty if he does make it. [/quote]Clever is an understatement! Despite only attending school part-time, he is still predicted straight ''A''''s at A-Level. Would almost certainly have gone to Oxbridge if he hadn''t been offered a contract at Norwich.[/quote] And could have been a pro cricketer too by all accounts. One of these sickening people who is good at everything! Still as long as it doesn''t go to his head good luck to the kid and I hope he does make the first team this season! [/quote]I should have said, by all accounts (i.e. my son who was at school with him!) he is a really decent guy as well with no arrogance at all.
  8. [quote user="Jim Smith"]I think he is highly rated. I was told about him by someone at the club 3 years ago when he was 14/15 and had been identified as the big hope coming out of the academy. As I have said in another thread the fact they are prepared to chuck him in there as the only proper midfielder against an SPL teams shows that the management team must have some real faith in him. He is not a footballer type either. Clever lad and local as well so would hopefully have some loyalty if he does make it. [/quote]Clever is an understatement! Despite only attending school part-time, he is still predicted straight ''A''''s at A-Level. Would almost certainly have gone to Oxbridge if he hadn''t been offered a contract at Norwich.
  9. I don''t know when he signed his Cambridge contract but they are saying (as of Saturday) he is committed to them;http://www.cambridgecityfc.com/artman/publish/article_1459.shtml   - unless of course he has signed a contract to make sure they get a fee if he comes to us!
  10. Got to agree with most who have been before- not a pleasant experience!If driving from Norwich, I would park at Blackhorse Road tube station (M11 take exit to N.Circular Rd. Nth., follow A503 sign to exit left to Waterworks roundabout and then A503 Forest Road until you see station on your left, big car park on your right. Victoria Line to Victoria and then as others have described).Don''t think I can face it for a friendly! [W]
  11. [quote user="Pappa Charlie"]Sorry peoples but I''ve missed this somewhere along the line - why hasn''t our new keeper played yet?[:$][/quote]Has he not also just finished playing a full season in Australia and might therefore need a (foreshortened!) ''close season'' break although presumably he would at least be match fit.?
  12. [quote user="7rew"][quote user="7rew"][quote user="Mr.Carrow"]7rew, if you think outsourcing operations is the same as keeping them in-house, there`s really no point in arguing with you.[/quote]I would actually like to know why outsourcing works.  I honestly can''t see why it works.  Please tell me!....As you advocate it you must be able to tell me what it is.[/quote]Ok on reading that back, It looks really garbbled and confused. Mostly because I am about the issue (in general rather than the specific case).I''ll try and clarify into two questions:1) Why would senior management have less to do with an outsourced catering division than an in house catering division?  (with thanks to I.S.)2) Given that a company you outsource to makes a profit, why couldn''t we make that profit by just running the in house division better?I think those will do (at least for starters).[/quote]7rewIf I can dive into this post and attempt to answer your questions...You would usually outsource parts of your operation which were seen as ''non core'' and where the ''host'' organisation didn''t have specialist expertise. The advantage is that you normally establish clear service criteria and then leave the contractors to manage the operation using their specialist staff and knowledge while you get on with improving your core operation (football?). You would normally only then have to liaise with a dedicated ''account manager'' who would report back on a regular basis against your established criteria. Assuming the contractor is competent, you would therefore have to devote very little management time to that side of the operation. The staff would be employed, managed and paid by the contractor, all raw material purchasing and statutory obligations such as Food Hygiene compliance would also be undertaken by them.The theory is that a contractor would be able to secure, for instance, better purchasing deals for raw materials by virtue of their larger size in the market and would also be able to migrate best practice between different operations.There are various financial models that can be negotiated from a straight profit share or premises rental fee to a deal where the club would pay a service fee to have the operation run for them but keeps all the receipts.If you believe you have the expertise in house and (crucially) the operation is not diverting management time from more important tasks, then you should, apart perhaps from the leverage on ingredient costs, be able to make more money by doing it yourself.
  13. [quote user="zemas tendon"]Having been reading a few posts lately and one thing that astonish''s me, is that everyone seems to think we are going to cruise out of this Division!! i think most need a reality check!! we have a squad which doe''s not look that good!! we have signed mediocre players!! We will struggle to get out of this League unless we make good quality signings!! I hope we win the league and get out of this crap league, but i think we will become another Bradford, Oldham, even Leeds kind-of -team! [/quote]Actually, if you look again, I think you will find that there are far more doom laden posts predicting relegation than there are people thinking ''we are going to cruise out of this Division''.......
  14. OK, who has been reading this thread and ordering Chris Lakey to defend the concept of a pre season tour? [;)]   http://www.pinkun.com/content/ncfc/story.aspx?brand=PINKUNOnline&category=Norwich&tBrand=PinkUnOnline&tCategory=Norwich&itemid=NOED15%20Jul%202009%2017%3A22%3A42%3A407
  15. [quote user="Bury Yellow"]This is a good thread and makes interesting reading. We obviously must wait until, say, 10 games into the season to see how things are panning out. By then we could have made two key signings (players I have heard of would be encouraging). Gunn could be proving to be an inspiring Manager. The CEO and Chairman could be making good noises and The Carra could be rocking. If, however, we continue this long downturn from the past few years, the scenario could be dramatic. We are all so keen to arrest the situation but I do fear the latter. The positives could be the Chairman being more pro-active and consequently interesting times ahead![/quote]BYI wonder how long the fans will give the new team...you say ten matches but I have a feeling that, right from the start, there is going to be that horrible, nervous, atmosphere with everybody on edge, hoping for the best but fearing the worst.I really do hope we have a good start and can start to build the FCR atmosphere again like we used to have a few years ago; otherwise, like you, I fear the consequences.
  16. I am sure there are many examples of waste hidden deep in the ledgers of the club but, personally, I don''t think this is one of them. If you are correctthat the budget for travel, accommodation and medical expenses was £800k it does sound quite high but, when you consider the cost of scans, specialist investigations etc., I would imagine that the ''medical'' element must have been a fair chunk of that; frankly, it seems a bit bizarre to lump medical expenses along with travel and accommodation.To return to the tour, the idea of taking the (vastly changed) squad away together to gel, get to know each other and work on some fitness and tactics for the new season seems eminently sensible- apart from the benefit of assessing the triallists and seeing how they fit in with the established players. As far as the reported costs are concerned, they actually sound pretty reasonable.It really does seem that some people will attack anything and everything, however irrational. I imagine that, if there had been no pre season tour, there would have been complaints about the lack of preparation and how Gunn does not understand the need to build a team spirit...For Heaven''s sake, there are enough easy targets to attack with the way this club has been run without resorting to mindless carping.
  17. DFThanks for your input! I''ve not mastered the quote function in Firefox but I think it is clear I''m following up your post...Of course you are right about the number of Directors...I changed the sentence and forgot to adjust the number!You are probably right about the ''appetite for change'' but I wonder if there are not now stronger forces at work to bring this about. I somehow can''t see Bowker agreeing to the appointment without laying down some terms of his own- particularly in view of his previous statements about the way in which the club was managed.Yes, there have been various comments and rumours of job cuts but I haven''t seen any substantive statement from the club. Presumably they have been going through statutory consultation so it may have been difficult to comment. Again, whether the owners want to or not, I get the strong impression that the new Board will be pushing very hard for a refocusing of objectives!Funnily enough, one could ''sell'' the catering franchise move as a vindication of Delia and a noble gesture by her to use her expertise to make sure the other Senior Management weren''t distracted by non football matters.....(DS= Please feel free to make use of this rationale!)I think, however we fund him- even if Hoolahan has to go (and I would hate to see that) we absolutely HAVE to find the money for the No. 9 !!Perhaps I am being optimistic in thinking we will make the playoffs but I just have a feeling that one or two players (possibly the youngsters?) will emerge as heroes this season.....besides which, we can''t go into the new season conceding defeat already!!I don''t think the leopard will willingly change its spots....but I think there may be enough strong characters within and outside the Club to enforce a reality check. I desperately hope they can reconnect with the fan base because I detest the civil war that has raged around Norwich recently...I somehow do not think Foulger and Smith will let the club go into admin. and will dig into their pockets again if they have to in order to stave off the prospect.
  18. I’ve been lying low for a while watching developments and wondering what sort of shape the club will be in by the time the first real match kicks off.   For what it’s worth, I give you my take on the ‘state of the nation’.   I am impressed by the new Chairman and CEO and underwhelmed by the other two appointees. I would have expected new Directors (not the CEO) to have brought some investment to the table and, frankly, I am suspicious of the motives for the appointment of Stephan Phillips.   I sincerely hope and believe, given their records, that the Chairman and CEO are conducting a root and branch examination of the whole NCFC operation.   It has become clear that the finances were as bad as many people suspected and I wonder if the appointment of the Chairman- a hard headed businessman- was pushed for by the major creditors. Having said this, I don’t believe the situation was hyper critical or that there was an imminent threat of insolvency (I couldn’t imagine Bowkett and McNally joining if that were the case), just that the cupboard was practically bare.   Given the above, I would expect the outcome to be a radical reduction in non-essential overhead and a restructuring of the operation to refocus on the ‘core business’ of football!   I would not be in the least surprised to see the entire non match catering activity hived off to become a separate, stand alone, operation run by a ‘franchisee’ (can anybody think of a potential operator?) paying rent for the facilities and contributing a percentage of turnover or profit to the club.   In view of the suspected financial situation, Team Gunn are clearly working within major constraints and are having to balance ins and outs to end up with a squad that has some chance of being competitive.   I actually think that, with the finances as they are, the signings made to date are about as good as they could have been. Obviously, we won’t be able to pass proper judgement until we have seen the new players in a truly competitive environment but, from what I have read and seen so far, I think Theoklitis, T-J and Gill are good acquisitions for minimal outlay and I also like the noises Nelson has been making!   The ins and outs which remain are, I think, the key to our season. We all know a big, goal scoring number 9, is absolutely crucial- we’ve seen what has happened when we have tried to manage without one- with the exception of maybe Ashton and Dion for a while, we have never really found a long-term replacement for Iwan. Who the new man should be, I don’t really know. For every name mentioned you will find as many people against as for and some of the transfer fees bandied about for apparently average players seem frankly crazy. Whatever happens and, even if the eventual signing is not everyone’s first choice, we HAVE to have SOMEBODY filling that role by the time we play Colchester (and preferably a back-up too!).   Add a speedy winger (Whaley?), a new right back, the youngsters who have been given contracts and maybe a couple of the (free/cheap) triallists who have impressed and I think we have the potential to build something this season (a play off place?). At least the vast majority of players will be contracted and not short term mercenaries.   We have to be realistic about where we are. Yes, I blame DS and MW-J for their amateurish handling of the Club, yes, I would (desperately!) like to see new investment/ change of ownership but no, I don’t want to see the club fail or take the administration route and I don’t hate or vilify anyone for what they have (misguidedly!) done.   In the end, my ‘stake’ in NCFC is the entertainment they provide, my emotional attachment and Norfolk heritage so, come the Colchester match, I will, as always, be cheering the team and desperately hoping for a successful season regardless of the politics or other upheavals!
  19. The REALLY ironic (and slightly worrying ) thing is that the first paragraph of the original post could almost be a paraphrase of McNally''s comments in today''s EDP article.....     http://www.edp24.co.uk/content/edp24/sport/football/norwich-city/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=SportNorwich&tBrand=EDPOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=NOED30%20Jun%202009%2017%3A41%3A53%3A140
  20. Juan,If you look on the thread about ''Rebate and Supporter''s Trust''  http://www.pinkun.com/cs/forums/1738080/ShowPost.aspx  it has, bizarrely, turned into a similar discussion!
  21. Lappin, in that case there''s nothing anybody can do except, I suppose, withdraw your custom from the club. In reality, the Board, currently, are appointed by the major shareholders so nobody else (except possibly the creditors!) can actually force them to do anything they don''t want to...
  22. GMF. When I first thought about this I agreed with you about the financial scrutiny but, when you look at the implications, that role seems almost impossible for someone without a very large slice of equity or other investment.I am hoping that McNally, from everything he has said, is conducting a root and branch review of all the budget areas and concentrating resources on the football activity and that the much heralded new Directors will also have an eye to their (hopeful!) investment going into on field activities.If you accept the above hypotheses, then (in my opinion at least) what we as fans want is the assurance that there is someone at senior level who actually understands what goes on on the field and will question decisions which are illogical in footballing terms.it just seems to me there would be sense in pushing for this type of an appointment of someone who was knowledgeable about football, strong enough to wield influence and trusted by the fans.
  23. I would be interested to hear from more people as to whether or not they think this is a runner...in the longer term, it does not necessarily have to be in place of the ''fan''s Director'' although there have been some good posts on this thread which highlight the problems with this. Thinking ahead, it would be good if whoever was appointed as the ''footballing'' non exec. Director also had a special responsibility for liasing with supporters. The relationship with the Manager could potentially be interesting though and would have to be defined quite carefully. I don''t see the position as a Director of Football though because I am not convinced that joint accountability ever really works- that''s why I would keep the position as a Non Executive Director.I agree with the poster who said any potential appointment should be on merit not on ''Legend'' status but, without knowing him personally, DD always struck me as intelligent and articulate so would certainly at least be on my shortlist!
  24. You know, the more Ithink about it, with sufficient lobbying and pressure from the various representative groups, there could even be a chance of getting someone like Dion (if interested of course) appointed as a non-executive Director. It really would be in everyone''s interests- a chance for DS to show she is listening, for McNally to demonstrate that things are changing and the new Directors (fingers crossed!) to have someone on hand who really understands the core business. It would also avoid many of the problems of one fan being selected- after all, I can''t think of many people who don''t respect DD and I can''t see him being a sycophant in the Boardroom.Yes, Gerry was an interesting character; I censored what he actually said, ''cos it certainly had the ''F'' word in it! To put it mildly, he didn''t suffer fools gladly. I remember one strategy meeting where he destroyed one of the Directors- just turned his back on him and talked to the Director''s Number 2 for the whole meeting...the Director lasted about 3 weeks after that!
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