Blue

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesandRegulations.aspx Above is the FA link to download their rules (light reading!!!!). As far as I can see you need to read Section C - Rules relating to players, sub-section j.  This states that if a player is under 24 as at 30th June, the club is entitled to compensation.  Reading clauses vi and vii, the club needs to have offered a new contract and the player either declined or not responded in 28 days (i.e. deemed to have declined).  i.e. if a club releases a player under 24 without offerig a new contract then the player is free to join another club without any compensation due.  If the club has formally offered a new contract but it has been declined, then compensation is due. I guess the issue is: has Croft been offered a new contract in a formal sense, or did they just ''talk'' and nothing in writing got submitted.  From the way he talks in the interview, it''s the latter, in which case no compensation due.  Also, the compensatino is supposidly based on the costs of bringing the young player through the youth setup from an early age, so my guess is that any compensation now would be lower as this could be deemed to have been covered already with the fee paid to Man City and not something that is applicable here.  I can''t see that the rules cover this, but it''s all a bit confusing to a layman anyway.....

As I posted before Lee''s "I''d love to be here" is him sttting his stall out just like any of us would when potentially negotiating for a new jub.  He lives in Dedham and does not want to move (generally once in the EA region nobody wants to move out again, it''s getting them here in the first place both clubs have suffered from), so he says he''d love to play for NCFC.  I''m sure he would as it suits him from a personal point of view, but I''m sure he will not be considering a large pay cut not to move house.  He will have a huge mortgage (by our standards, given house prices around the Dedham Vale (Roy keane turned down a house in Dedham last week at £1.2m as not being big enough / worth the money - it won''t have been the uual footballers pad at that money in Dedham, he''ll need to cough up £1.8 at a guess!!) and will need to pay it, so being on min £10k a week now - but probably more like £12k once he moved to CP - means he will only come if his money stays anywhere near the same level as it is now.  So find maybe £9k minimum ++++ bonuses plus fee and he''d no doubt jump at the opporunuity as it ticks all the boxes, but if not then like all footballers he will either stay put and pick his money up or find someone else willing to pay.  All his declaration has done so far is to convince a few people (only fans at a guess) that it would be worth pushing the boat out financially to get him - which is exactly the idea of it!

That''s old data, but would have been correct at one time being the amount written off / still payable re administration.  I also doubt that these figures were all owing in the same FY either (i.e. the leeds figure would have been a couple of years later than Ipswich and Leicester).  I susepct that someone has taken the highest figure for each club in the list over the last few years then declared that for ''sensationalism(?)''...

Lets assume your player budget for next season will be £5m - which is right at the top end of expectations and high for league 1 (more average Championship).   A squad of 25 players, thats an average of £200k a year per player - around £3850 per week.  Take out the number of higher earners at the club (I don''t know but for arguments sake say thats 4 at £8 a week) - £1.5m a year - that leaves say £3.5m split between 20 players £3350 a week.  Another assumption is that 5 players will be young and not paid a lot - say £2k a week - £0.5m.  Leaves £3m split between 15 players which is still less than £4k a week each.  Bring in just one £10k a week player and not only could it upset the very thing you need - team spirit - but the average of the other players needs to be around £3k a week each which suggests 1 ''big'' player (coming for money only???) and lots of space fillers.  Not sure that''s what any of you would really want...    

Couldn''t see either party being happy with that!   But I still think you should get Derek Bowden in as CE.  He has everything you need right now, having been through it all before.

[quote user="Camuldonum"][quote user="ryan85k"][quote user="Blue"] I suspect you have a choice of paying a few (small) transfer fees (depending on what monies come in) or going for the free out of contract players. My guess would be that you will pick up 2 or 3 older professionals on free transfers from championship clubs at slightly higher wages, another 2 or 3 out of contract younger players that may require a little compensation, then another 2 or 3 in contract for transfer fees (not sure how many players you will need sorry).  That would probably be a good mix.  Don''t forget that in all the time Joe Royle was at ITFC he spent a grand total of £300k on transfer fees, so getting the right players is not all about paying out big fees or paying big money, it''s about the blend of players and choosing the right ones (in Royles last season the player spend was £4.85m which was his highest spending season).  The next question is, who in the team behind Gunn has this knowledge?  He is unlikely to have it. If you get player aquisition right, then even with a very small amount of money available you can get promoted.  I just have my doubts that Gunn has the necessary experience to pick the winners first time, which is what you need right now... I get the feeling that Gunn is exactly what Magilton was for us - the cheap option! I hope it turns out better for you than it did for us - you don''t have the money to waste letting the manager learn his trade like ME did with Magilton so it''s even more important... [/quote] You speak too much sense for a scummer. I suspect that Ian Butterworth and John Deehan both have a fair bit of knowledge of lower league players, particularly Butterworth who has worked in L1 and L2 for about 7 years I think..... Ian Crook has admitted that he doesnt know anything about English football anymore, and as such his role is probably just to show them how the hell to pass the ball, before cooking them all a good Barbie..... Nobody really knows why Bryan Gunn has to come into that otherwise perfect combination, but we just have to wait and see.... [/quote] You don''t need to spend a fortune to put a good TEAM together in League One - you do need someone who knows the lower divisions and I believe Butterworth does.  There will be a record number of players available this season, clubs are offloading at a rate I have not seen before, and if you can make astute choices and hang on to your better players there is no reason why you cannot compete well.    I think choice of players rather than money is going to be even more important in League One (or Division Three, if you prefer) next season.  It always has been a very competitive league and may be even more so from August onwards.  It is a gutsy league and if anyone chooses players who "just turn up" they are likely to be in trouble quite quickly. [/quote] That was the point I was trying to make in a roundabout way.  You don''t want players looking for a pay cheque (e.g. Lita?) you want winners who will roll up their sleeves and fight for the team!

I suspect you have a choice of paying a few (small) transfer fees (depending on what monies come in) or going for the free out of contract players. My guess would be that you will pick up 2 or 3 older professionals on free transfers from championship clubs at slightly higher wages, another 2 or 3 out of contract younger players that may require a little compensation, then another 2 or 3 in contract for transfer fees (not sure how many players you will need sorry).  That would probably be a good mix.  Don''t forget that in all the time Joe Royle was at ITFC he spent a grand total of £300k on transfer fees, so getting the right players is not all about paying out big fees or paying big money, it''s about the blend of players and choosing the right ones (in Royles last season the player spend was £4.85m which was his highest spending season).  The next question is, who in the team behind Gunn has this knowledge?  He is unlikely to have it. If you get player aquisition right, then even with a very small amount of money available you can get promoted.  I just have my doubts that Gunn has the necessary experience to pick the winners first time, which is what you need right now... I get the feeling that Gunn is exactly what Magilton was for us - the cheap option! I hope it turns out better for you than it did for us - you don''t have the money to waste letting the manager learn his trade like ME did with Magilton so it''s even more important...

I read somewhere that he will be working with the Spurs youths 2-3 days a week next season allowing him time to still carry on his media work...

Thought you might want to read this: On Monday I flew to Ireland(Belfast) to visit family and who should be on the same plane as me but the one and only ex manager Nigel worthy me being me I couldn''t help myself but have a little gloat only to have nigel openly come forthwith with info on his time there in the later stages and some very interesting info on his time there. as well as his opinion on jim and our captain mckualy . first to come to light was how much money he had to try and get Norwich back to the prem 4.7mil was quoted then came the real shocker ish Norwich had 30 mil gained for going up 15 mil in royalties 20 mil in property sales and then the parachute and player sale money of £20mil giving a total of £85 mil I couldn''t help but ask how much did you actually spend then when in the prem his words not mine around the 14mil mark and 4.7mil whist relegated so i said so where''s the rest of it and i quote "I asked the same question to the board and chief executive" you and the board good friends I said sarcastically in which worthy smiled. i then mentioned about the narwich fans wanting to sack the board he said again I quote "well for one they need to get rid of the chief executive" I said what about delia? and I quote "she needs to stop drinking first" I laughed and mentioned the rant and how soccer am had done their out take on i. I also asked if he knew much about it of which worthy said "thank god i was in the dressing room at the time, some of the players actually hid from her if they knew she was coming down to the training ground" again i found this highly amusing with images of players hiding in the bushes or in the loo''s I then got on the subject or jim and his time here as well as macualy I said in his opinion did he ever think jim would get Ipswich up not a chance was the reply i mentioned about how in my opinion macaully was not a captain and should never hold that role at Ipswich worthy said again i quote" he''s a good CB but no he should have never been captain" as for jim worthy only said this " jim was a great player but clearly lacks the ability to man manage at the moment. he needs to learn his trade in the non league clubs" worthy also felt that he wasn''t given enough time to turn Norwich round and feels that if he had been their now they would have not got relegated. as worthy said players were hung over from getting relegated from the prem and some didn''t want to be at Norwich which made his job harder. for me this goes to show how a club can go from top flight to doldrums if you have a board that takes more than is given

Clarke would be a good signiing.  I''m sad to see him go.  Still think he could do a good job for us.  I''m surprised being Irish that Keane has not given him a year to check him out himself - only 20.   Another young player who went backwards under Magilton!!!!!!

[quote user="Blue"]What are the chances of you all receiving rebate in the form of dicount vouchers etc for the shop - i.e. no hard cash exchanging hands?  I''m sure as in any business they will be busy finding ways to dress the word ''rebate'' so money does not come out of the bank (I have no idea how they worded the original but i but the words ''automatic'' or ''refund'' were used).[/quote]   Sorry, that should read "I doubt the words...."

What are the chances of you all receiving rebate in the form of dicount vouchers etc for the shop - i.e. no hard cash exchanging hands?  I''m sure as in any business they will be busy finding ways to dress the word ''rebate'' so money does not come out of the bank (I have no idea how they worded the original but i but the words ''automatic'' or ''refund'' were used).

I was optomistic about him signing last summer, but having watched him this season, I can assure you he is not value for money.  too slow for midfield.  Okay at the back if you want a sweeper, but not up against either a big target man or young quick strikers.  Save any money you have for someone worth it.

I cannot, and would not, condone the actions of the Chelsea players - what happended to the "Respect" code all players signed up to?? -  but having seen the refs performance I''m sure I''d have been upset too. Looking at the 4 penalty decisions: 1. Free kick outside box.  I assumed the ref had called it back to the first offence near the 18 yard line, but then the kick was taken near the goal line where the last offence was - and that offence was inside the box (as evident by the marks on the pitch). Penalty should have been given if that''s the offence he blew for. 2. Drogba. Shirt pulling for 2 secs then leg across. Penalty. Refs assistant should have given that. And the player should have walked. 3. Pique handball. Nailed on penalty - even Piques face as he turned away expected the ref to be pointing to the spot. 4. Handball in injury time. 50/50 seen then given, seen them not given. By the way, that ref was the one sent home from the world cup after failing to allow an Italy goal against Romania. Can''t believe they give these games to referees not used to handling big games many times a season. All that said, Chelsea had enough chances to win without the referees errors. I expect thatsome of Drogbas anger was in acknowledgment that he should have put his 1on1 away... Still, a Man Utg Vs Barcelona final is the one I''d rather see anyway, so all fine by me.

I''m not going to say anything about the "R" word as last time I posted I got accused of gloating - which I wasn''t. All I will say is that it does not do the region any good to have one of the ''big'' clubs in a lower league, and that I''ll miss the derbies that are always the first dates everyone looks for on the fixture list. On the other subjects floating round, my views as an outsider are: 1. Gunn It was a calculated gamble to bring in a ''legend''. Bearing in mind that the results were not picking up and R was on the cards, I would assume the powers-that-be were relying on the short term impact that a mew manager has by lifting a team and getting them to play above thmselves for a few games.  Added to this normal scenario, a ''legend'' doing it should be a double whammy.  Unfortuantely, as looks increasingly likely at Newcastle, the "norm" failed - results continued the same and from the outside based on the derby and also Chalrton, the lack of fight and passion to haul themselves out of the mire was to say the least discappointing to see. I would not expect Gunn to be manager next season as I don''t see (from the outside) what he can offer long term if he failed to lift the team short term. You need someone experienced in coaching and getting the best out of a squad with (no doubt) not a huge amount of money to be spent on either transfers or wages.  Thats why we got Joe Royle (good) and Jim Magilton (bad). Not sure who falls into that category that you could afford (can''t think of one off the top of my head), but this appointment will be critical. Maybe Joe Royle would do it for you as he did for us? Would you accept such an appointment? Would he come back down south a second time? 2. Delia I actually feel sorry for her, which is surprising since I''ve hated her for x no of years since throwing her toys out the pram when the Cobbolds rejected her overtures all those years ago. She tried to do the best she could but football has moved on and now she finds herself way out of her depth.  I''m sure she thought that NCFC would be her sideline to enjoy and now she finds at a stage in life when most millionaires are putting their feet up and enjoying the fruits of their labour, that she has to work even more to stand still (or go backwards), with no real way out. Not a position any of us would relish I''m sure. 3. Chief Exec. Should take a lot of the blame. He is responsible for running the club day to day. Failed. As per my previous post I really do suggest that you get Derek Bowden in. Not only is he a great guy who commands the utmost respect from us supporters for his handling of a financial crises, he now has all this experience ready to use again - you can''t ''buy'' this!! 4. Administration Don''t go there! That would really set you back 3 years++. I don''t see Delia going there as she will lose the majority of the investment she has. Anyway, it''s a legal thing so if it happens its due to being insolvent not somebodies wish. 5. Players Get Lee. He is a good player, but you will find sometimes not up for the game. Just remember that whilst he is making noises about wanting to come (he lives in Dedham so a commute is easy) as like anyone else he may not want to sacrifice his salary, so it could be a case of "all things being equal this would be an ideal move for me".  At ITFC he was on about £10k a week.  Not sure about Palarse.... A transfer fee could be a problem - not too many who are in L1 can spend hundreds of ''000s. Not sure if you''d be willing, but there are 13 players out of contract down the road that for whatever reason are unlikely to get offered deals now. I firmly believe that 4 or 5 of them are good enough for the championship at least and the younger ones especially have the optential to go higher.  As with lee, not moving house could be a big draw and most are not on huge wages being younger.  A quick rundown on who would be good for you based on who I''d keep here (can''t remember all of them): Bruce - he will aim higher (although he thinks he is better than he is). Campo NO. Miller NO. Bowditch YES. Trotter YES.  Clarke YES. Richards YES (been harshly treated in my viw). Harding NO (Reading must see something I haven''t although rumour has it the JM relationship was a personal non football thing). Casement ?? (never fulfilled undoubted potential). Supple YES. Thatcher YES (but probably expensive). Finally.  Good luck. I want the derbies back!  

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"][quote user="Blue"][quote user="Nexus_Canary"] This morning I was getting ready for work and packing my footy kit for our after work kick about when for the first time I stalled. I had my Norwich shirt in my hand and just looked at it. I actually threw it over to my dirty laundry heap (its clean) and picked up a neutral Nike Swoosh shirt instead. I just could not wear my Norwich shirt :( I have lost all Pride in the club over the last few days. A lack luster half ass attempted at Portaloo followed by the appointment of Roy Keane just made me feel sick to my stomach. I know we will be relegated and would prefer it if we do because honestly we deserve it. We are rubbish and do not have the bottle to remain in the Championship. I only hope that someone up to the task of getting us promotion and the players steps up, no disrespect to Gunn as he is a legend and i respect all hes tried to do, its not his fault he was given the job and had the ambition it was the boards LACK of ambition that he was appointed. The scum have shown more bottle, ambition and football spirit in the last week than we have in the last few years and its made me bitter angry and sick to the pit of my stomach. I hated Keane as a player but respect the hell out of him as a coach and a manager. Now im trying desperately to hate a man i respect. Its as if a real asshole you have hated your whole life has just managed to sleep with your girlfriend or wife and is rubbing it in your face. Our board need to go. Thanks Delia, truely you did us a favour... years ago. Now its time to move on if you truely love Norwich City. We need change and ambition. We are supposed to be fighting to regain our Premiership status. That White Horse you rode in on has turned out to be a donkey :( [/quote]   Come on Nexus Canary - so what if we have a new manager - if you are a supporter then support!  Wear your shirt. Fight for what you want.  I''m sure you are not going to suddenly spport ITFC (never quite worked out how anyone can change clubs they support), so get up, dust yourself off and support YOUR team.  The grass is always greener I know,  but........ !! [/quote] Oh shut up you patronising git! we have been wearing the shirt in far greater number than you fickle psuedo cockneys ever have, if you were in our position you wouldn''t even be getting 10000 at Portaloo Rd. It''s time for us to get very very p**sed off at what we have been forced to put up with. Even the Norwich worm will turn in the end. Now push off back to your own website - www.inbreds@plasticsupporters.com in case you''ve forgotten the web address. [/quote] Nice to see a welcome for someone posting from another club!  I normally get a good response to my posts. Sorry if you feel that way.  I was trying to be objective.  My apologies if it offends you to an extent that you have to throw insults.  As I said, a true supporter will always support their team through thick and thin.  So yours is a bit thin right now - everything goes in cycles.  I''ll wear my blue with pride - you wear your yellow. I have no intention of slagging off any true supporter from any club whover they may be and whatever club they support.  I reserve my irritation for part time glory hunters (some those at ITFC next season??).  

Can''t see he has much to offer anyone based on last weeks performance - but is the only time I''ve seen him. I thought Clingan looked good though, seemed that anything you did good went through him.

I don''t.  He thinks he is better than he is right now (like a few others!).  Good squad player but very prone to (a) rash tackles (b) wandering concentration.  Not a patch on his Dad. I''d like him to stay, but only as it''s zero cost for palyer who will provide good cover. Disappointed that he has not developed his potential to be an automatic choice over the last 3 years.  But then maybe that is equaly his managers fault..... Who knows?

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"] This morning I was getting ready for work and packing my footy kit for our after work kick about when for the first time I stalled. I had my Norwich shirt in my hand and just looked at it. I actually threw it over to my dirty laundry heap (its clean) and picked up a neutral Nike Swoosh shirt instead. I just could not wear my Norwich shirt :( I have lost all Pride in the club over the last few days. A lack luster half ass attempted at Portaloo followed by the appointment of Roy Keane just made me feel sick to my stomach. I know we will be relegated and would prefer it if we do because honestly we deserve it. We are rubbish and do not have the bottle to remain in the Championship. I only hope that someone up to the task of getting us promotion and the players steps up, no disrespect to Gunn as he is a legend and i respect all hes tried to do, its not his fault he was given the job and had the ambition it was the boards LACK of ambition that he was appointed. The scum have shown more bottle, ambition and football spirit in the last week than we have in the last few years and its made me bitter angry and sick to the pit of my stomach. I hated Keane as a player but respect the hell out of him as a coach and a manager. Now im trying desperately to hate a man i respect. Its as if a real asshole you have hated your whole life has just managed to sleep with your girlfriend or wife and is rubbing it in your face. Our board need to go. Thanks Delia, truely you did us a favour... years ago. Now its time to move on if you truely love Norwich City. We need change and ambition. We are supposed to be fighting to regain our Premiership status. That White Horse you rode in on has turned out to be a donkey :( [/quote]   Come on Nexus Canary - so what if we have a new manager - if you are a supporter then support!  Wear your shirt. Fight for what you want.  I''m sure you are not going to suddenly spport ITFC (never quite worked out how anyone can change clubs they support), so get up, dust yourself off and support YOUR team.  The grass is always greener I know,  but........ !!

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"] [quote user="JimRoyle"]I''m a season ticket holder and I find the title of this thread offensive. Whatever one''s feelings about Delia, the fact is there is NO rich sugar daddy waiting in the wings and the only thing that would be achieved if 17,000 people withdrew their custom would be sending the club to the brink of extinction. [/quote]   Agree [Y] [/quote]   Agrred.  A very disappointing string. What will happen will happen - but at the end of the day we all support our respecitve club through thick and thin, no matter what goes right or wrong, who the manager is etc etc. To wish nobody bought season tickets or to want administration to me is a very odd stance.

For the poster "Administration is a good thing". NO.  The real problem longer term (putting aside the number of people who lose out at the time) is that by terms of the CVA for the next 3 years the organisation is severely restricted in what it can and cannot do. For instance no trading bank overdrafts and all cash flow has to be financed in advance - so if you think there is no ambition now, after administartion you tread water waiting for another ME to march in.  Not an ideal thing at any time, let alone with the current economic climate.  AS I said a couple of months ago, there is no way that Delia will allow it to happen - it would only be if you become insolvent and it''s a legal necessity (which is unlikey given the level of season ticket sales).

This appointment shows the gulf opening up between the ''haves'' and the ''have nots'' in football.  I know there were many of you (and us too) questioning the motives behind ME''s investment and whether it was good or bad - I recall most of you thought it was bad and have been waiting for it to fall flat (I recall posts saying you would rather have Delia - and you never know that might be true in a few years - who knows?), but this appointment suggests this is luckily for us a long term partnership - you don''t spend this sort of money of a CE (he won''t be cheap!!) unless the investment is going to pay dividends - i.e. the requirement for top quality in that dept = premiership turnover.  It appears that for once the timing of something (takeover) at ITFC could not have been better - as we all know timing of everything in life is always wrong not right!!!  I suspect it would not happen in the current economic circumstances. Unfortunately for Delia, the timing is totally wrong for her.  The value of the Delia stock was helpful to a football club 10 years ago - even 5 years ago - as she could invest and use capital to underwrite bank facilities etc., but the top end is galloping away at such a rate now that she cannot - and should not be expected to - compete. However she is unlikely to find any knight in shining armour in the very near future who can make a huge difference so has no option to hang on in there for the ride. It just goes to show you how the toss of a coin at any one time can land good or bad.... only time can tell. Finally, if you want to CE to repalce Doomcaster, then in all honesty look no further than Derek Bowden - he is a top class man and without him ITFC would be dead now.    

Having such a good goal difference for a team in the bottom 3 is like having an extra point.  I suspect that this factor will save Norwich from relegation.

My observations on the game were: Very disappointed in Norwich - no real fight or passion (only one booking for a team fighting for its life?) - no change of tactics until around 10 mins from time.  You allowed Ipswich to play our ''normal'' game that has got us nowhere his season - i.e. turn up play a few nice balls around but no passion or desire to win the first ball as usual.  Result = two teams going the same exact thing but one had a couple of better players than the other on the day. Norwich defence very static - made Lisbie look good!!!! Ipswich penalty 50/50.  I was surpised it was given as we never get even the most obvious.  Yes Marshall caught Lisbie  (who to me was looking for it), but there was (an accidental) handball as the ball came up beforehand, so although this would normally be ignored as it was ball to hand so play carries on, I would expect that to be taken into consideration over the penalty call. Norwich penalty 100% correct. Quinn was stupid (not for the first time!). Lee looks like he has lost weight. Mind you he still ran out of steam.  Something to do with smoking and drinking....? Croft was lucky to stay on the pitch - I counted 4 late challenges that I would say had no intention of ball playing.  Seemed to me he was the only one fired up, but not necessarily in the right way.... I hope that by winning Magilton does not get to keep his job! I still hope you stay up - the region needs it (but I personally don''t mind you going down). Good luck for the final 2 games.    

TWTD is not a proper message board - try www.tractor-boys.com.  Mind you neither have as much ''traffic'' as this site.