KidCanary
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Posts posted by KidCanary
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Nope im a long time lurker, switched to this a while ago when i got bored of canary mail!
Felt the need to break my self imposed silence and speak out though because there are so many posts from people who clearly have no understanding of the game.
Rich I dont think you can fault worthy''s performance in the transfer market the quality and type of players he has got in for very little money at all has to be applauded. Its the first time for a while that both our flanks have awesome potential, especially the wingers (i disagree to Huckerby being a striker).
I do think though, as I stated previously, a central defender would be a worth while investment.
Just to further highlight the pre-season point, last season Safri was severly hampered by injury (slightly again this season I''ll grant you) and when he did play alot of his challenges were slightly late, due to hime not being up to match speed. Everyone here kept calling him a thug and stating his disciplinary record would be a problem. I pointed out that he was playing catch up and I like to think that after his displays in the latter half of last season everyone can see what a class act the guy is.
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Right i thought i would put my two penneth in before there are any more silly rantings and ravings on the board.
For those who have only watched football and never played I can not stress enough how important a good pre-season is. After a two month break, fitness, positional awareness and team work require alot of attention. Unfortunately our pre season has been very poor and this has been down to alot of niggly injuries to key players and not the fault of anyone, these things just happen sometimes. We havent had a settled side during the pre-season, I would imagine that worthy would of liked at least 4 games (alongside training) with a settled side and he blatantly didnt get this.
All the above has been very evident in our first two matches and I must admit i expected this. I might point out though we are doing slightly better than I expected. With a poor pre-season, really your looking at 10-15 games in before the side gel (especially considering we have a few new players), in light of how we have preformed I would expect this to be nearer 10. Having said that a couple of wins will do wonders for nerves and confidence and could accelerate this to more like 5-8 games.
Unfortunately i havent been able to be at a game yet but from what I can hear on the radio it sounds like we are trying to rush our attacks a little much, which is completely understandable given the above plus crowd frustration.
Anyway the point of this post was dont panic, we are getting there, its just going to require a little patience!
Incidentally I would like to see another central defender brought in, not because the choices we have at the moment cant cut it at this level, but with a view that we will be in the premiership next season I would like a season for a partnership to be bedded in. At this level they can afford some time to learn and make mistakes, at the next level they cant!
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[quote]''Can'' is such a poor question as the answer is always YES until the available points make it impossible. Are our chances better following Sat? Yes far better, if the same team and tactics are applie...[/quote]
@Zipper I''ve been meaning to ask you mate, what is your opinion of Leon now?
Not saying hes the finished article, still needs to work on his close control, but I think a fair assermation would be that theres light at the end of his tunnel with a bit of hard work? I personally thought this to be the case but I know we dont necessarily see eye to eye on this, just wandered if your position on this may have changed?
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I havent posted on this board for a good few months, certain people on here I think get carried away and have a lot of trouble keeping things inperspective. I feel for the majority of this season we have greatly underperformed, although we have not been helped by injuries.
Despite our form I always felt along with many others that the key to our survival were to be the games versus palace and southampton. In my mind I thought if we got something from United then that sets us up very nicely confidence wise, when approaching these matches.
I personally think we will stay up, we can take enough points off of palace and southampton that it will be in our own hands and I feel West Brom have to hard a run in to maintain their form of late.
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I wouldnt consider that a decision, no where does it state that souness or worthington have admitted a loan has failed... its just the usual BBC getting a story late and putting a different spin on it... -
Both full backs give opposition wingers far to much room, but I think if you had Helveg and Charlton fit this wouldnt be a problem.
I''ve said before that I believe our problem is our midfield rather than our defence and for me this is still the case.
Both the first and second goals at vill and the second and third goals today were through either a midfielder not tracking back or marking. I wouldnt berate Jonsson to much though, his defensive play is normally spot on, all I can say AGAIN is the sooner Mulryne is out of the side the better. I dont want to see him play again for Norwich, he is far to lazy. This isnt a knee jerk reaction I have maintained this opinion for a while.
Also like some said above and as I have said before, with the midfield not tracking back/picking up someone from the defence is having to step out to close down, this ruins the line being held and most likely leaves one of the defenders with an additional man to mark.
I really dont think we can judge the defence until the midfield is sorted out.
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[quote]I agree that we have weaknesses in midfield, however we have rarely put the best midfield out, weakening the left by playing Hux on the left, Bentley on the right instead of central etc and rarely hav...[/quote]
Agree that we have rarely put out our best midfield, thats obviously the problem in my view, although I will reserve judgement on Brennan as I wouldnt of thought he is up to scratch having had an injury and then only playing a bit part.
If you note above I dont actually think it would matter who we play in defence, we will still ship alot of goals at the moment purely because of the afore mentioned midfield. You put any defence under alot of pressure for 90 minutes and you will get results, case in point England, look at how many leads we surrendered of late because everyone has sat to deep and we do that for the whole match at the moment. At that point it becomes a simple numbers game, someone will make a mistake with one of the through balls/crosses eventually.
I firmly believe when the midfield is up to scratch you will see alot less problems with the back 4.
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Got to be honest Zipper although I agree with you that its defensive errors I believe this is caused by the midfield and I dont think it would matter who you had in our back four.
If the midfield centre two sit to deep, they get in the way, they cause problems for our centre backs because they dont know if they are going to close down people approaching the edge of the D or if they should do that themselves. As their sitting deep they offer no options to pass to, so the defence is hoofing the ball, which results in us being immediately under pressure, again because we are to deep and not their to receive and/or challenge for the ball.
Also what you pointed out, who plays left back is quite regularly exposed 2 on 1, when I''ve seen matches the opposition attacks are left flank an awful lot, and gets a lot of joy.
We may have defensive issues but I dont think we can really point the finger until the midfield is sorted out.
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Well not my favoured position (i prefer Centre mid) but I''ve put a bid down for right midfield
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I do believe will get someone in but what I find puzzling is what Worthy has said.
He stated that he wanted to get younger players in because at Norwich we "plan for the longer term", to me this would imply that the players he gets in on loan are with a view to a permanent transfer?
Could be interesting to see who we get then.
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According to various reports spurs have bid 1.5mill with other clubs monitoring the situation, think its safe to say hes going to be on his way in the Jan window, which will only weaken Palace, good news for us then!
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Personally zipper, I believe the diamond formation is good because it makes a team very difficult to breakdown, theres no good going 442 when we just dont have the wingers and our strength is in the centre of the park (injuries not with standing!). Saying that the formation I posted was more of where I saw each player operating rather than a rigid formation.
I agree Huckerby shouldnt be put on the left, but as for up front, he misses far to many chances, hence putting him behind the front 2.
I''m afraid I disagree about mckensie, I just think half his problem has been the lack of a decent support/striking partner, which something all our strikers will continue to suffer with if somethign isnt done about the midfield.
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Green
Helveg Fleming Doc Charlton
Safri
Jonsson Francis
Huckerby
Ashton Mckensie
1). Stops midfield dropping to deep and offers support attack.
2). Gives plenty of options to pass to and is difficult to break down.
3). Compensates for our lack of out and out wingers and concentrates the ball where we strongest.
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One thing that strikes me in this whole debate of us scoring goals is where the supply is going to come from?
Francis - Box to box player, is going to be setting them up
Huckerby - Bit dissapointed with his lack of crossing, becoming a bit predictable of late, runs at defenders, cut inside, shoot, this is more suited for a central position.
Helveg - Can string a pass together, but injured.
Safri - I think this player is the anwser to our problems, will sit and defend and has a good passing range but needs a run of games and again is injured.
Jonsson - shows promise, but is suffering still imo from lack of a pre-season, needs to get forward a bit more and improve on his final deliver. Shows promise but I feel one for next season.
Mulryne - dont get be started, a liability and would offload him at the first opportunity.
Brennan - Not seen anything but defensive play from this guy.
Holt - Box to box defender, is not going to be your creative flair.
Our two loan signings really need to be attacking midfielders and one that can preferable string a decent pass together, until then I dont think you can expect much from ANYONE that plays up front.
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Player by player:
Green 7: Not much he could of done about first and third goal, shouldnt of got beaten at his near post for second. Commanded the area well.
Edworthy 7: Actually thought this was one of the better performances from Eddy, I am usually quite critical of this guy so credit where its due. Formed a reasonable defensive partnership with Jonsson. Even stepped out quite a bit and looked fairly comfortable on the ball. Only complaint was to many hoofed clearances but more on that later...
Fleming 6: Did ok, cant remember any defensive plays or note and like wise of any mistakes. Again hoofed alot...
Doc 7: Our MoM, won majority of the ball in the air, shepperded either cole or angel well when marking on his own. Maybe could be a bit more vocal, he seems to have the composure and confidence, needs to reassure his less composed colleagues a little more. Personally would make him captain.
Drury 5: Oh dear. not all his own fault as who ever was playing left midfield (Huckerby/Brennan??! im presuming the later) was not helping him out at all, frequently left 2 on 1, giving the winger far to much space to cross the ball, doesnt really seem to have learned from his mistakes. Unfortunately now he has had time out of the team, the best part of his game (tackling) is now lacking as hes not up to match speed.
Jonsson 6: Defended well and the few forays forward were promising but needs to improve his final ball and needs to get forward more often.
Francis 6: Where was he for the first 20 minutes? Not as strong as normal on the ball, stepped it up a little in the second half with some good forward runs, but if this was based on purely first half performance he would of got a 5.
Mul - lazy ffing barsteward - ryne 4 : Right i''ve had enough of this guy. He has the ability, I''ve seen it in him in many a match, but he is to inconsistant and VERY lazy. Needed to improve on his liverpool performance and didnt. Took to much time on the ball, always facing backwards, passing was poor or always directed back, never moved into space to receive the ball and sat to deep. The second goal was his fault as he didnt track back, drury had to step up and commit him self, and mulryne left hendrie and if you watch the replay, watches him run off, receive the ball and shoot. I really dont want to ever see him play again for us, he lacks the commitment and I was pleased he was subbed at half time.
Brennan 5: One reasonable shot but most of the time wandered hopelessly out of position, Drury needed alot of help and he offered none. Looks good on the ball though.
Ashton 6: Some reasonable touches, though thought he should of won more in the air than he did. Looks strong on the ball and lively unfortunately never really got a decent chance. Does need to work harder though and could take a leaf out of leons book.
Leon 7: As ever, worked hard, put himself about, think ashton could learn a thing or two from him so will be a good partner, imo better as huckerby as I prefer him just behind the front to (but central, so doesnt get isolated on the left).
Huckerby 6: No real decent runs of note but had one half decent shot in the first half.
Overall
Defence - Midfield were playing to deep and not helping them at all, having to resort to hoofing the ball majority of the time. Left side looked very weak.
Midfield - Central and left mid had an absolute mare! Bunching up, following the ball, sitting to deep, not pushing out etc etc the injuries are showing here..
Forward - Never really had a chance, no supply. Only criticism, sometimes both forwards would make the same run, which made us look a bit stupid so a bit more communication and/or training
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I havent time to put a full analysis right now so will put down my notes later on......
Suffice to say, the game was not lost upfront or in defence it is our shocking midfield....
to deep to be of any use to the defence and obviously because of this not supporting the attack... the ball was going straight from defence, hoofed up to Ashton. Worringly the players seem to be bunching up and following the ball rather than spreading the play. They also need to sort out the strikers runs, on too many occassions both could be seen coming to the same ball in the second half.
will put more details later.
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Im not sure Zipper, remember he did state that he had 6 targets. I would be very surprised if they blew the entired budget on one player though as he is just aware of the extra players that are required in our team currently.
Two separate items though, firstly where is this money coming from? I''m not complaing just curiours, wander if they the board pushed the boat out, it was always budgeted for or if the rumours about that will are true?
Also I think I would cry if he signed bent also lol now that would be something!
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I do tend to just lurk on this board untill recently but there seems to be so much sniping in the posts of late.
To be completely honest I did think we would do better than where we are this season (I thought 12th was reasonable) but then I wasnt expecting the kind of problems we have faced on the pitch so far. Dont get me wrong I dont think this is due to a step up in class, most of our problems are our own doing, I wont list them now, I have written about them in the past.
The point of this post is and despite what I have mentioned above, I still have full confidence in Nige and the team. I''m undecided whether we will stay up now, we do have a chance purely because the teams around us have been so bad, If we can stop shooting ourselves in the foot I''m quite confident we will. But if we dont, as dissapointing as it will be, that just means we will do it via the charlton method and hopefully everyone will learn from this experience.
Having a pop at the board is just amazing, people must have such short term memories. I''m not saying that because of past actions people should not criticise the board, but In my opinion they have done nothing to warrant this. I have had the pleasure of being Delia and Micheals guest before and I know how much they care about the club and how much reading such things as posted on here some times will upset them.
By all means have your opinion but try to be a little more grown up about it. For example, how is calling Neil "Doomcaster" going to achieve and/or help anything. The guy slugs his gut out for the club and people resort to childish names. If you can see where hes going wrong then point it out, I''m sure he would be the first to take on any fresh ideas.
I have my opinions on the team and staff and people probably know what they are if they have read my posts. But lets all think a little before we post, becuase if your not for us your against us, and right now everyone at the club needs all the help they can get.
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Looking at what I feel our strengths and weaknesses have been so far this season I have come up with the following formation:
Green
Fleming Doherty Charlton
Helveg
Jonsson Francis Huckerby Brennan
McKensie Svensson
Strengths:
Midfield, inspite of our current injury crisis this I feel is the strongest part of the team.
Weakness:
Fullback, we dont have one of good enough quality at right back and our left back is suffering from a lack of consistancy/insufficient cover from midfield.
Not enough height in central defense, not a problem per say until you factor in the above, as to many crosses are being put in.
Immediate Problems:
Assists/Scoring/shots on or off target.
Retaining possesion.
To many crosses being allowed in.
Solutions:
Our midfield should be our main source of assists and creativity, with huckerby playing wide, we are getting good penetrative runs but I have now come round to thinking we are marginalising him by playing him on the left. This is not to say I think we should play him up front but instead play him in the centre so he can run right at the heart of the defence. With helveg playing a holding role we can afford to loosen huckerby''s defence duties, this, I feel, would help aid the assist and some of our defensive problems on the left. With Doc in the centre of defence and helveg in the holding role I also feel this will help us retain the ball more, teams tending to of late, punting the ball up to our defence and having their midfield pick up the returned headers etc. With two reasonably defensive minded wingers and again, with Helveg in the middle, this should help the issue of to many crosses being allowed over.
Obviously having a holding midfielder in helveg both Francis and huckerby can push up more, which I think will help us create/score more chances.
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Ok in the light of the apparent transfer fund, I wanted people to state why they thought we needed a new striker.
Personally, I dont think it will matter who you bring in, my reasons for this are:
a). How many clear cut chances have mckensie/svennson had in the last 5 games, I can count them in one hand
b). How many decent through balls, killer passes etc have you seen played to the front to in the last 5 games
Ladies and gentlemen buying some one, unless it is the likes of henry is going to make no difference, our strikers movement, especially svensssons, off the ball is good, they just dont get the service.
what we need are:
Central midfield with some passing/dribbling ability
Right winger who can make the same sort of penetrative runs that huckerby does.
The former allows us to play through the middle, where I would argue is our teams strongest part, the latter would give teams something more to think about than huckerby.
I would even like to see cover in central defence, although the top two for me remaind the priority.
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Huckerby - every player has his price but I''m willing to bet money he will stay, the board dont have to sell and he has already stated that if we go down he wants to remain here.
Francis - despite the plaudits still an unknown quantity for some, if we went down I would expect a bid for him but not in the Jan window.
Green - Am really not sure on this, I would be surprised if he went in Jan but can still see this as a strong possibility. To be honest if someone is going to offer £5 million (and I think your looking at more than this if he went in Jan as it smacks of desparation from the buying club) I say take it. We have two very good goal keepers in Ward and Gallagher, neither too far behind Green and £5mill would make a hell of a difference to our squad. I know he has saved us on more than one occasion but I''m of the opinion we have adequate cover in that respect.
The only thing I would say is if/when he does go it will be a shame he wont of played for England while he was at Norwich, would be nice to have one of our squad in the side for the first time in a while.
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Archie the reason they do this is because when you defend your meant to move the attacking teams sideways, so you compact the defense a bit and force them out wide, your then meant to chase out quickly (the full backs) to close down the winger and force him to go back....rinse and repeat. Trouble is, quite often all this season both drury and particularly eddy have been very slow moving out resulting in a cross.... -
[quote]Hux up front did work to a degree on Sat - its just that the 9 players behind him gave him no service at all - citys midfield in that 45 mins were non existent. When he did get the ball he looked go...[/quote]
I personally thought Svennson was our best player through out the game, put himself about, won alot of the ball and linked well with players. Neither had any support from our midfield like you said, but then that is why I believe huxs should be in the midfield, but if we can find a good creative midfield Zip I would be all for him playing up front, just not now.
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He also had a pop at Drury, but rightly so in this case as he was moving out to the wingers far to slow and giving them the opportunity to cross.
The Importance of a good pre season
in Main Discussion - Norwich City
Posted
@Rich, Rich im not saying you cant question his transfer record, I just think he has done well, i might also point out these players have played for teams before Norwich and my thoughts on their future ability and use to Norwich is based on this. Besides if you re-read the post I was pointing out quality vs cost i.e. all bar one didnt cost a transfer fee, but I do think they will prove to be good signings, Marney looked a class act for spurs last season, and the reports from their pre-season tour were positive also (i have done my home work).
Your right though Sheff Utd did well, but I dont think you can compare the situation to ours. If Worthy had the signings he made picked out it would be in his best interest to sign them quickly for the reasons we have already discussed. To that end unfortunately other factors come in to play over the speed of transfer, if you take Jarrett for an example, he didnt actuallys sign for us until, what, a month after it was known because we had to wait for him to become a free agent. Its those sort of things that dictate the situation we found ourselves in.
@Yellowrider, I think hughes is a good signing as he adds a little depth to our squad due to his versatility, plus in this division you do need to the gary holts of this world to grind out some results against lesser teams, its not always pretty football! I will say though i think we paid a little too much for him but taking into account the savings on the other signings i think its a fair trade off. Jarrett looked good in a the few games he played for wigan and I heard good reports about him from sources i trust with regards to his limited appearences, if again you balance this with his cost I think its fair to say he was a decent signing, though we wont know till later.
With regards to Safri, if you re-read the post I havent actually said his play was limited because of injury, I said that peoples judgement of his disciplinary record was unfair because he was playing catch up fitness wise DUE to his injuries, not sure if you missed my point there. It was more to back up the how important a good pre-season is point.
I agree with you both it is too early to say yet though, either way.
@LinkNr9, I dont know what your problem is but i havent been condescending in any manner. I havent said people arent entitled to their opinion either. My opinion was that people shouldnt rant and rave so early on and I gave a reason for this. Due to you having played to a decent level then perhaps you can see the validity of my initial post, and given that, you will know that Safri''s performance is not the norm for a player who has had the pre season he has! I was really pleasantly surprise, I mean composure and touch can be worked on outside of fitness, but he seemed to be every where, which is a very good sign! Thing i like most about Safri is his vision and reading of the game, and those two can make up for alot if he''s only at 90%. Anyway chill!