KidCanary

no worries shyster, although i did mention the assumption point the main focus of this post was whether the board being so up front was a good idea, which i feel i had touch on in my previous posts.

I agree that we need to re-enforce the squad, we definitely need cover for our attacking trio, it would be a devastating to the team to lose the balance we have managed to construct.I dont agree we had all our eggs in one basket though, i just dont think we know every thing thats gone on over the last month or so, but i will conceed that that in itself is an assumption much like the reverse (believing we did).

[quote user="shyster"]My thoughts in this instance are that you are guilty of starting too many needless threads based around the same subject.[/quote]I have mentioned it in a few replies, but thought best to start my own topic.But thanks for the helpful and constructive reply.

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]We are all human and we know that following football we have ups and downs, for us more downs recently and only a couple of tumultuous highs. It is natural to react with disappointment when our hopes are high that we may have turned a corner and that failure to do so may plunge us back into the dark abyss of mediocrity for the foreseeable future. Frankly it is the sign of inadequacy to resort to 9 year old playground language like that used by the poster you mention. I skip his posts and I suggest that you take a deep breath and maintain the moral highground by treating them with the contempt they deserve. [/quote]Completely agree TW and to be honest this is why over the last season or so I have not posted much, some of the personal attacks on here have been completely out of order, although i dont share DOC''s view on this transfer saga that would not prompt any verbal from me, this is a DISCUSSION board for christs sake, where you discuss things.

The recent info posted on our transfer dealings has been very enlightening and i applaud the club for giving us the fans so much inside info?If you take whats happened in the last 24 hours, the club displays info on the Cotterill saga and numerous posters then attack the club for not having a backup plan etc etc.How do you know they didnt, you assume this because nothing else has been disclosed.  As much as the club has given us we are never going to know every thing.I''m glad we can find out information like this, it makes me feel more like we are part of a club but I feel if the club is going to take such actions we need to have a little faith.What i think is we should give the club the benefit of the doubt in such situations until this trust is proven to be misplaced and I certainly can not think of any act by the board or management in the current regime that would prompt this.What are peoples thoughts on this?

[quote user="dr livingstone"]if i did my job this poorly i would expect the sack. [/quote]So what do you consider he has done poorly and what would you do in way of improving things?

I agree i think leon has acted appallingly and i must say im surprised, he is the last person i would put down as this type of player.Also i dont think this decision is based on being a footballing decision, if you read alot of the reports the same ''personal problems'' and ''pressure from home'' points keep being hammered home, i wander if he has got himself in a spot of trouble?  Of course that is all here say.There seems to be a definite rise across all the leagues of players throwing their toys out the pram this season, some thing really needs to be done because at the moment a contract is worth about as much as signature on the back of a fag packet!

Im sorry but this is one of the types of posts im talking about, this is in no way questioning your support, but you ASSUME that we put all our eggs in one basket because you are not in possession of all the facts.We arent going to reveal all our bids, and im surprised at the detail that was revealed with regards to the Cotteril bid.Its unfair on other teams/players to do so for what obvious reasons.I''m not going to post another rant as i''ve explained my position on this in another post but i really wish people would make posts based on FACTS rather than assumptions.

This is not directed at the poster of this topic so please dont take it so. We do seem to have a trend of people posting about members of the club supposedly having the opportunity to do the club some benefit which in turn will help them selves but choosing not to.By this i mean, why havent we signed x player, why havent we loaned y player etc etc.Its in Nigels/the boards best interests to get players/make decisions that will benefit the club, so why do people automatically assume that because we havent got any one in its because of a lack of effort or as some people write (which i think is just plain stupid) through choice!If there was a player we could afford, that wanted to come here, that would improve the squad, then we would sign them, simple as.We are never going to know every thing that goes on at the club for obvious reasons, it weakens our position in dealings, in fact the amount of info divulged last night has surprised me, i dont think you seen any other club being this transparent.I think the point of this post is i wish some people would think a little before they post some times, alot of the vitriol directed at the club from here is just plain stupid in its assumptions at times and one reason why i mainly lurk on this board rather than post.

[quote user="FilletTheFishWife ."]get real. Who are you kidding KidCanary. Come January, we''ll be able to sell more players and fail to get any in.   Oh and yes those 3 loans. Hope they''re more vintage 2003/4 and not 2005/6 !! [/quote] Who and what is there to kid?I dont see a trend of us selling our players in recent years, with the exception of of people wanting to leave ala Ashton.  I think you need to be a little less pessimistic.We do need to re-enforce the squad, but the way some of you are carrying on you wouldnt think we are bottom of the league with a plague about to strike.

You worked bloody hard and im gutted for you that it didnt come off, heres to a promotion season, i personally feel with all bias aside that young cotterill will live to regret this decision..We can still get 3 loans in and lets see what happens in Jan.

if i were a betting man i would place money on assisting with tactics during the game and being in charge of analysis of the opposition (scouting). He will definitely have a role though, other wise he wouldnt be employed.  It amazes me that some people would actually believe that latter statement.

[quote user="Hardhouse44"]As a supporter who goes week in week out I personally think he is up there with the worst players ever to pull on the yellow shirt.[/quote]I disagree and i dont think he''s be given adequate chance to prove otherwise, as our squad is so small I''m going to get behind the player and give him the benefit of the doubt we cant afford any one not to be on their game and by booing/heckling him this will be the only outcome, remember most players under performed last year.[quote user="Hardhouse44"]As for his wage slip he will be on more a week than 80% of the fans are on a month thats a FACT.[/quote]definitely, but i dont see how this has any relevance to what we are talking about at all.

[quote user="no1canary"]but it is fact isnt it? surely he''s not on less than 1k a week?[/quote]I would imagine so mate, i was merely pointing that know on here knows that for a fact.

[quote user="Hardhouse44"]The guy get paid thousands of pounds a week. He''s rubbish. Give him away[/quote]You seen his pay slip have you?This isnt directed at you but it does amaze me how many people state things as if they know them for fact.Would you have not said the same about Etuhu and Collins last year?  Hughes has played one match (out of position i might add) and we won, cant say fairer than that.

Guys,I''m sure everyone is of the opinion that the team performed poorly (note i said then that this was down to poor pre season and pleny of injuries!), particularly our new signings.Now Hughes was one of these, although i did see him play against Reading at home and he wasnt too shabby.So if our other signings can have a good pre-season and through a prolonged run of games show to be quality players, why exactly cant he?He has taken more abuse than any of the famed three (Etuhu, Collins, Hughes) and this is because he was injured less and despite every one around him hiding, was putting himself about!I think people should get off the guys back, even when he does come into the side he will need a little time as he hasnt regular games, but i think he is more than capable of fufilling the role currently occupied by Robinson as and when we need him.So please, support a member of our very thin squad!Incidentally as to our chances, if we could peform some miracle and avoid injuries all season i.e. keep our same first 11, i think we will finish in the top 2, after that its going to be down to how our squad players (like hughes!) peform.

I think we will win 2 nil... for those that think we will get a hammering, have you seen whats happened during Leed''s preseason, to say its been a shambles is an understatement, i dont see them finishing above mid table. Incidentally if they hadnt had the above, i would of gone for a draw. Glad our first game is away from home, give the lads to get some confidence up and get rid of some of this vitriol.

1. First class pre-season 2. No injuries 3. Settled team/back room staff Point 1 is the most important for me other wise you play catch up for the rest of the season.

After such an up and down season, for the record im in the ''Give him more time camp'' (to many injuires and squad changes for my mind), i am now starting to feel a bit of excitement as we approach the last few games.  How i would love to relive the atmosphere of stockport a few seasons back. Heres to a change of fortunes and hopefully a play off spot, good luck lads!

I attended last night and my over all thoughts: Green is not commanding his area at all, several crosses that he should of come for.  Made some good stops though and handling was good on a greasy pitch. Fleming - Comfortable on the ball, didnt get forward enough, a reasonable game. Doc - Good in the air, never really had any problems to deal with. Davenport - Solid again, very good on the ball, strong in the air and tackle, his reading of the game is also very good, covered up for Brennan on many an occasion. Brennan - awful, should be dropped for next game, he was an absolute liability, out of position, miss controling, giving the ball away and losing his marker regularly.  The penalty he gave away was really stupid, he missed an easy header and then left his leg out wich Heskey dived over. Marney - Looked unfit, one or two runs, was ok in possession, but think if we had more fit players, wouldnt be playing. Hughes - good but again looked a bit unfit, still was involved in most elements of play.  Due to fitness he was making as many forward runs as last i saw him play. Jarret - Looked very light weight in midfield, didnt really get stuck in enough for me and his final ball was usually poor. Charlton - Didnt really do anything of note right or wrong. Ashton is having to look far too much for the ball, regularly receiving it level with our midfield or on either flank. Huckerby - was pretty poor to be honest, regularly ran in to blind alleys (when he managed to control the ball), he is far too predictable.  When moved to left midfield was very lazy in his defensive duties, never tracked back and regularly sat back and watched.  Henderson - Was really lively when he came on, good control and passing, deserves to start next game.  If he had been picked out by hucks rather than Rossi towards the end (which would of been an easier pass) he would of scored. Rossi - Wasnt on long, but got stuck in, the chance he had to score the pass was a little short so couldnt have done any more really. Summary: Defence - fairly solid apart from Brennan. Midfield - Looks what it is at the moment, patched together with alot of unfit players. Attack - suffering from lack of support from midfield. Next game: Drop brennan, bring Charlton to left back, switch Huckerby to left (although if hes still not performing by half time bring on Mcveigh for him) and bring Henderson into the starting lineup.  I would also seriously consider swapping Jarret for Rossi Jarvis, because the midfield really needs the energy at the moment.

[quote=zippersleftfoot]  Rick is right - there is a multitude of problems that have caused the current situation but he appears to have missed the most important one - having built a team that knows what the structure and organisation is in defence & midfield.   [/quote=zippersleftfoot] I agree with you about the organisation, although i think its more down to our poor preseason and multitude of injuries, I think any coaching staff would of struggled. [quote=zippersleftfoot] However the common thread in ALL of these factors is that the solutions are entirley in Worthys hands, until 1/1/2006 anyway.  Injuries need to be covered by short term loans and the lack of squad size is surely NWs choice by failing to stock up during the summer,  these signings can be of a suitably physical nature (surely that didnt take us by surprise did it? - we were only here 16 months ago!), Deano cant go anywhere now, and if leons confidence is so low (and it does seem it is) then worthy does have to take him out of the firing line, now, and put him in the reserves until his touch comes back and use the other strikers in the squad, hux, hendo or McVeigh are currently fit. [/quote=zippersleftfoot] I dont agree that all that Worthington has solutions entirely in his own hands, the only thing I that I would put down to his own fault was the morrison/mckensie incident.  This must of knocked Leons confidence, you could put it down to Steve Bruce as Rick does, but in light of Worthington announcing today that he tried to sign Francis Jeffers also surprises me, it doesnt really smack of good man management.  I also dont agree that the squad size is through a lack of not stocking up on players, its in the managers interest to get as many quality players in as possible, as it gives him more options.  If we work on that basis that means either a). there was no money, which we know is not the case or b). his attempts failed, which we know has happened on atleast one occasion.  Im not sure what the solution is with mkensie, except hope he scores a few flukey ones and his confidence comes back.  A separate point, premiership teams obviously struggle adapting to a div 1 style, if you take Bolton for instance, they still adopt this method and with alot of success.  I wander if you really can pass your way out of this division, you certainly could a few years ago ala Fulham, Portsmouth and Charlton, maybe times have changed? The division is alot tighter thats for certain.

I''m not going to post a long message the present predicament, I am as upset as yourselves....but Read this http://new.pinkun.com/content/columns/RickWaghorn.aspx This man talks sense. All i would say it would be nice to have the majority of people behind the club (and everyone in it) and not calling for someones head because it is the ONLY way we are going to get out of this situation. Keep the faith.  

As I trust this is in addition to Ashton /prays im going to base the following on that assumption. Makes sense to sign another quality striker, I only count Leon, Dean and Thorny among our forwards so to bring in a fourth makes sense in case of injury and for putting pressure on the current front two to perform.  I would imagine if he signs today, Leon and Dean will have 5 games to come up with a prolific partnership, Mr Mckensie is going to have to put some extra hours in on the training ground to improve his touch and stay in the side me thinks! I can understand peoples surprise (i shared this) that we havent signed a defender, again not that i dont think we have the cover and ability at this level buti  would like to see a young centre back (mid twenties) bedded in now with Shackle before we attempt the premiership again.  I dont believe we require a creative midfielder, at the moment anyway, at this level we have been creating loads of chances, its been more of a case of not putting them away.  Possibly need to look at this again for the prem though.  Having said that, if we had the opportunity to buy Bentley i would. Bloody hell two 1 mill plus signings in the space of a season at Norwich!! Pass me the smelling salts Now sign a central defender Worthy!

Personally I dont see Bentley as a right midfielder, if you take that point of view and combine it with his first full season of football and the injuries he had I think Bentley did well for us.  I dont think he is as light weight as people suppose, I must admit in pre-season against that spanish side, when I saw the size of him I did wonder if his defensive side would be a little slack.  Of the 12 games I managed to get to see last season (all away, cant get tickets for home games and am in bristol) he was very strong in the tackle and composed on the ball.  In fact in alot of situations when our defence/midfield were panicking under attacking pressure he was one of the few still showing composure on the ball and I regularly watched him track back. Anyway, I would love to see bentley come to Norwich and I personally would play him in central midfield alongside Safri/Jarret, him with orders to push forward and Safri/Jarret staying back in the holding role. This guy has the touch, pass and vision to be the creative midfielder alot of you have being craving, I could see him very much operating in much the same way as Crook!  I can even see similiarities between the players if you take into account style and build. A forward line of:                                       Ashton                 Mckensie              Huckerby           Bentley                   Safri/Jarret                Marney Is a very exciting prospect with bags of ability. I''m not suggesting for a minute that we dont need a central defender for when we go up but take a look at this:                                       Ashton                  Mckensie           Huckerby            Bentley                    Safri/Jarret                Marney           Dury                  CentralDefender          Shackell                  Colin/MLJ                                                 Green That is a very imposing team, if a little on the young side, think Leeds in the champs league days.  I would even go as far as stating with a decent central defender to partner shackell (perferably one with height and pace) and have a top 12 prem side there.

Jarret to lightweight?  The guy is 6 ft plus and 13 stone?  I think you will find Jarret is an all rounder where as Hughes is more defensive minded.