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KidCanary

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Everything posted by KidCanary

  1. [quote user="cluckadoodledoo"]Sorry guys.......but all I can read on here is Peter Grant getting slagged off. He came here totally inexperienced and as an unknown quantity....then given a massive pile of crap to play with. I don''t rate him and never did, but why shoot the messenger?  All of this should not be laid solely at his door. This whole shambles lies firmly in the lap of Delia Smith and her cronies who have finally brought this club down to it''s knees. There were calls for optimism and demands for more ambition  from some posters........but this is the reality of Norwich City 2006. We are a mess. You (we) all deserve better. Any defence for Delia is now past. PG has been dumped on.... No doubt he was made to retain the inept backroom staff he inherited..........and so are we going to get yet another year of spin and tripe....transfer window or no. Having said all that......what can we plebs do about it?.......Are we game for yet another miserable period of protesting......or do we go down on the ''Good Ship Delia'' shaking our heads? [/quote]Why are we currently in a shambles, won 2 lost 1 last time i checked, Grant needs to time to sort his squad and get the team playing how he sees fit, dont really see what else can be done at the moment, maybe you would care to elaborate?
  2. [quote user="cluckadoodledoo"]Sorry kid canary........but you seem to be missing the point.  No-one is crying for Grants head as he is here now on a lengthy contract. I ask that you look beyond this minor issue to see what is going on regarding the ''whole'' club........It''s a shambles and if Delia Smith doesn''t back Grant up with considerable funds when requested....we will at best be stuck in this league for years. I''ve seen much better days at Carrow Road....with much smaller gates......so why are we where we are? As for fickle?.......my butt. We are a pretty astute bunch in this part of the world....and we know when someone is pulling our plonker! [/quote]Sorry Cluck im not, i have seen people calling for Grants head, in plain text on this site, hence writing this message.I do not agree with you points re: Delia at all, the club is not in a shambles, financially we are able to acquire players without selling (a feat that was common place before Delia and her husband was on board), we are in a transitional period due to change of management and it will take some time for this to happen, but I feel we are making positive steps, maybe you could elaborate on why you feel the opposite?Yes there does appear to be alot of fickle fans here, hence having to write this thread in the first place e.g people calling for grants head after 3 gamesUnfortunately I''m not in a position to judge how ''astute'' each member here is, but you carry on discussing points that were no focus of this thread if you want, you seem to like the sound of your own voice.
  3. [quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="Tumbleweed"] komakino and Kidcanary''s words resonate with me. Grant has a different approach- it looks tougher and I don''t believe he has actually singled out any one player- unlike Worthy who in his most famous rant blamed Huckerby for passing the ball around at 2-0 up. Grant has inherited an underachieving, low on confident, thin on depth squad in a dire state and has already achieved more than Worthy by winning at Brum and at home to the (near) runaway legaue leaders. He needs time to work out what to do with what he has got and what he has got is getting thinner by the day. None of this is his fault. So far he has won 2 and lost one in the league- that''s not a bad start from the state that Worthy left us in.Remember we lost 4-1 to Burnley and that was with our best two players let alone without them. We all know this is going to be a tough job. We all knew that our confidence in Worthy in turning it around had gone. So one bad defeat is no excuse for the kind of reactionary and hysterical rivel being written in some places. Smell the coffee folks- the squad is shot to pieces right now and one new man cannot undo 18 months of neglect with no transfer window. What are you expecting- flocks of pigs to start flying over the Cathedral spire? [/quote] After the plain daft formation picked at the weekend it is no surprise us fans are unhappy with Grants comments blaming the when it is obvious to all and sundry that it was the formation and players badly out of position that was the basis of the problem.  When most city fans are probably extremely disappointed with the starting line-up you know there is going to be a problem. However Granty hasn''t been here long and hopefully learns from this. [/quote]I dont agree with people complaining about the formation at the weekend, I didnt see anyone in such a foreign position they couldnt cope with after a couple of days practice in training, aside maybe from Andy Hughes on the left.It was a formation designed to get in the faces of Stoke and make best use of the players that were available, it didnt work because the players didnt perform., end of story.If the players we have are not bright enought to be able to deal with a slight change of formation like some of you are stating, then we shouldnt be employing them as we will never have a plan b.
  4. [quote user="charlies dad"][quote user="Old Boy"] Hang on just a minute you rabble. This is another classic example of "be careful what you wish for, lest your wish be granted". The rabble was howling for NW to be sacked, with moronic statements such as "my cat could do a better job", and "Keegan''s the man". The risks of changing managers were pointed out to you. The truth that the problems weren''t all Worthy''s fault was pointed out to you. But no, the howling mob was intent on its witch hunt, and you got your wish. Now, after just a couple of set-backs with a squad he had no involvement in building (and with key injuries), Grant looks likely to get the same treatment from you. Is there anyone sensible left out there? Hello.... HELLOOOooo... [/quote]If you''re a definition of sensible, God help us all. [/quote]I dont necessarily agree with all of that but he has a point, the statements that people are making so early on are ludicirous... the fact that we are even having to have a conversation about the manager''s job after 3 games is ASTONISHING, no one has any patience any more!  (though i feel this is more a sign of society than specifically Norwich City supporters!)
  5. [quote user="1st Wizard"]This is aimed at everyone of my critics, apart from the wise Cluck that is: When a manager slags off his own players in the media, then I will have a problem with that manager. I would suggest the players will too. Until one of my critics can counter my arguement with REASONED debate, I shall hold to that view. Hopefully, Peter Grant won''t be here too long!. [/quote]Grant has inherited a squad that isnt up for a fight, almost half a sleep if you will, he needs results quickly if he is to reach his goals this season (personally i think it isnt possible this season).  He also needs to stop the players from hiding behind the manager when they put in poor performances, this only way to do this is for them to take responsibility and be singled out.  He has been just as quick to praise as he has to criticise so I do not see how he is ''slagging'' off his players, his points have been honest and spot on.  If nothing was said how are they to take responsibility, because they certainly arent doing that themselves?
  6. I stated that this was a concern of mine when Worthy was finally asked to leave, that people had been too quick to criticise, chop and change their mind depending on the last result and this could lead to further lunacy in the future.  I was against Worthy''s sacking but with hind sight maybe a change was what was needed, I think the squad has become complacent.  There appears to be no back bone/spirit in our team, if we come up against any one with grit and determination we have lost.  I''m not sure Grant can reverse this trend in the current squad because looking back I would say this has been in place for a while.  Some players came down with the attitude, last season, that we could walk the league, we certainly had the talent, but unforunately because of the former point we didnt have the fight.  Left to play catch up and after a dire run of injuries (any one who thinks that would have no affect is living on another planet), heads dropped.  To be honest I dont think they have ever come back, maybe briefly in patches, but when ever we have encountered some thing that involves hard work, no one has stood up to be counted.I was pleased with Grants appointment, definitely the calibre of manager we should be aiming and probably the best we could hope for.Lo and behold after various people declared Grant the new messiah last week, a five nil drubbing later and apparently we are getting relegated and their have been calls for his head.I can not believe some people are seriously calling for this after 3 games in charge, absolutely astonished.Do people believe there is some tried and tested formula where you plonk a new manager on to an existing team and eh voila, champions elect?Play offs are an outside bet this season, yes we have the players if the first team is fit but as we all know the squad is very shallow.Grant has to get to know the lie of the land, his players, his staff and THEN he can go about rebuilding the team as he see''s fit, this doesnt happen over night.
  7. [quote user="Mook"]Yes, Kathy. But good Norwich teams of the past, like the cream of     .............     er .........   2003 used to go forward at corners and that''s all. Other than that, their job was to put the s**ts up the opposition strikers and clear anything that came within two yards of the box. That didn''t do us too much harm did it? Also, football has changed since Bruce/Forbes day. With such pacey, fit players, and teams playing on the counter so often, any defender caught out of position is putting their team in jeopardy. [/quote]Or offering another man in midfield, leaving someone free when they approach the player ala Rio for England...
  8. With that mentality JC we would never have come back against Middlesborough.
  9. CJF, fans do not have the right to protest in any way they like, there are familys and the team to consider, you seem to be advocating war some time with your bold typed messages!If fans want to protest, the idea i presume is to show the board the strength of the feelings, amassing before or after the game OUTSIDE the ground would be just as effective as holding one inside, except outside wouldnt affect the team, but of course theres more chance of appearing on TV in the ground (not saying this is your agenda CJF, but from some peoples posts its blatantly obvious why they are doing this)...
  10. [quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="KidCanary"]Guys he''s not debating here whether or not the manager should go, he''s debating fans dissatisfaction, the justification there of and the manner with which they display it.  My worry is that with each future manager its going to take less and less to go wrong before people start calling for his head.[/quote] Thats a very good point KidCanary, the only problem as I see it is this is a very important season as next season we don''t get 6 million of parachute money from the premiership - balancing the books becomes a lot harder. If we do get a new manager what should we expect?  I feel we have an underacheiving squad - so an improvement must come quickly, a whole rebuilding job like George Burley had to do at Southampton is not required.  If the manager that is brought in has a good track record then results should come quickly.  Is one available?? Someone mentioned Derby on here - good manager Billy Davies, wouldnt have minded him. [/quote]I think this is one of the reasons why i think Worthington shouldnt go aside from my own views of last season and this, because I cant really think of anyone better than him at the moment (not saying their isnt) and its going to use up our transfer kitty to find out, which we both agree needs to be spent on the squad.With regards to the forms of protest etc, its not that people are protesting per say, its more they people that seem to spear head this movement that concerns me, I read this forum quite alot and some of the main instigators change their mind like the wind but are very vociferous, these are the people that worry me with regards to stability and any future management.
  11. Guys he''s not debating here whether or not the manager should go, he''s debating fans dissatisfaction, the justification there of and the manner with which they display it.  My worry is that with each future manager its going to take less and less to go wrong before people start calling for his head.
  12. I think the board have been very clever, to be honest I see it as more of a public kick up the back side for staff and players than a vote of confidence, the whole statement leaves them alot of room to manoeuvre.
  13. Blah, you make some good points try not to let some users rile you, if you try and stimulate debate on here with a less popular point of view you get abuse.Giving Hunter 9 games to show any improvement is insane, but there have been signs that we have improved (the five games we have done well) but theres still work to be done (the four games we didnt), which is exactly what i thought would happen.  There isnt a magic button that suddenly turns a team from under performing to excelling, you get the impression from some people on here that they would only be happy if we went unbeaten for the rest of the season.
  14. [quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="Mook"] Oh my God, shock horror, football manager and football player sometimes argued!!!!!!I bet O''Neill never argues with his players, huh Paul?! [/quote] What is your point?  So I highlight a point which may have contributed to Leon''s exit. So a player who right royally shafted Worthington shows some backing a few weeks later?  What are we gonna here from Damien Francis soon? I am sure O''Neil has his arguments, and I am sure he deals with them in a better way than Worthington does. But then O''Neil is a great manager and an exception. [/quote]I think mooks point is nearly every thing you state as fact is based on here say and conjecture, you dont build a convincing arguement and you regurgitate the same points.
  15. [quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="KidCanary"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Actually when we were 2nd I was saying we were 3 points off the top and 3 points off 14th (or whatever position it was).  Barnsley was against 10 men, Luton lost 3 players to injury in the match before our turnaround... If we lose any more players to injury relegation will beconme a definate concern. 4 points off the bottom after 9 games...  it is worrying [/quote]CJF i can play this game all day long :)Coventry - Huckerby out, Etuhu illSouthend - Huckerby out,  Robinson outI agree, if we lose any more players relegation could become a problem but with a new manager a). all you can get is loans in at the moment b). we lose any transfer money we would of had for the jan window by replacing the manager, backroom staff and players.[/quote] whose bloody fault is it that we have such a small squad!!  SO what Huckerby was out, Palace had 3 players injured when they visited Carrow Road.  When Preston beat us at Deepdale last year they had 8 players injured!!  We have 2 players injured and are getting thrashed!! [/quote]I might also state here that on the points you are trying to argue, you indicate in your first post that the teams we beat had injuries and then in your reply you indicate that it doesnt matter if there is injuries (i.e. preston winning etc)... your nothing if consistant :)
  16. [quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]Just to show there are also exceptions to the rule and stats and lies etc its interesting to note that the managers in 9 of the last 10 champions league winners were not at the club any more than 3 seasons... [/quote]Also you could be lucky and do a palace, when they went up through the play offs.
  17. [quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="KidCanary"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Actually when we were 2nd I was saying we were 3 points off the top and 3 points off 14th (or whatever position it was).  Barnsley was against 10 men, Luton lost 3 players to injury in the match before our turnaround... If we lose any more players to injury relegation will beconme a definate concern. 4 points off the bottom after 9 games...  it is worrying [/quote]CJF i can play this game all day long :)Coventry - Huckerby out, Etuhu illSouthend - Huckerby out,  Robinson outI agree, if we lose any more players relegation could become a problem but with a new manager a). all you can get is loans in at the moment b). we lose any transfer money we would of had for the jan window by replacing the manager, backroom staff and players.[/quote] whose bloody fault is it that we have such a small squad!!  SO what Huckerby was out, Palace had 3 players injured when they visited Carrow Road.  When Preston beat us at Deepdale last year they had 8 players injured!!  We have 2 players injured and are getting thrashed!! [/quote]Your completely missing my point, im not making comparisons, im merely showing how at this stage of the season you can put a negative or positive spin on what has happened and thus I feel now is not an appropriate time to make any decisions.
  18. [quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Actually when we were 2nd I was saying we were 3 points off the top and 3 points off 14th (or whatever position it was).  Barnsley was against 10 men, Luton lost 3 players to injury in the match before our turnaround... If we lose any more players to injury relegation will beconme a definate concern. 4 points off the bottom after 9 games...  it is worrying [/quote]CJF i can play this game all day long :)Coventry - Huckerby out, Etuhu illSouthend - Huckerby out,  Robinson outI agree, if we lose any more players relegation could become a problem but with a new manager a). all you can get is loans in at the moment b). we lose any transfer money we would of had for the jan window by replacing the manager, backroom staff and players.
  19. [quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]4 points off the bottom of the table?? falling like a stone - on course to concede 71 goals this season if we continue as we are, we are closer to the the foot of the table than the play-offs.... Wafer thin squad mate, better teams than ours have been relegated - what if a couple of players get injured Sunday?  We are in the deep poo in no uncertain terms.  Forest, Sheffield Wednesday, Man City...  many decent teams have slipped down another league after getting on a bad run. Just think about this season we get THRASHED AND TOTALLY OUTPLAYED at the mighty COVENTRY and PLYMOUTH!!  it aint birmingham and Cardiff mate its PLYMOUTH!!!! concede 3 against SOUTHEND!! [/quote]So when we were second, were you saying looking certs for promotion and rising like a star?You can just as easily say we are on course to score 71, 9 points off the top.Wafter thin squad definitely, but thats going to be the same when some one else joins us, we can only get loans in, yet its probably going to cost us some of our transfer kitty to replace the manager, get in back room staff that the new manager wants, paying off players who wont feature under the new manager etc etc, then what are you going to use to buy players in Jan?For thrashed and out played at Coventry/Plymouth see hammering Barnsley or the Good home win against Preston.My point is, i would say its too early this season to say which way we are going and the next 6 games will hopefully provide some in sight (ive always advocated giving him 15 games)..As for people starting protests etc... NONE of you have given Worthy a fair crack at the whip this season and have just been waiting for him to slip up, this being the only reason why Worthy should go, because there are people who are never going to give him a decent run, i just hope this group stays in the minority in future, i dont want us turning into Blues or Spurs supporters.
  20. [quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="blahblahblah"] I''m looking further ahead than that Jas. Turning a club around generally takes time (and several hundred other things, half of which are out of your control at any given time, i have no doubt).  People who expect a change of manager to bring a change of form will need to be patient if they get what they ask for.  You won''t be able to force change with knee-jerk reactions to a bad run of form.  Or at least I hope you won''t.  If Worthington goes, I hope the board show the patience they have given Worthington.   [/quote] very true, when the new man comes in he must be given a chance. Hopefully the new man will have until January to assess the squad and then the rebuilding begins as he will need to repair the damage done to the squad by worthington. Fact is our run of poor results under worthy now runs back to over 100 games.  Apart from a blip at the end of the premiership season and a blip during december last year we have been awful for the most part.  Nothing has changed results wise since last season, goals are being shipped at a faster rate than ever and we are precariously close to the drop zone. [/quote]How can you talk about relegation in such a manner when were almost as close to the top as we are the bottom, you dont half dramatise things for you own end.
  21. [quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]Its nothing to rejoice about - as it means the club has got worse since last season. As some one else said - its the end game being played out,  just hope it is swift rather than long and turbulent - for everyones sake. [/quote]Its definitely the end, even if he wins the next 10, then loses 5, the position becomes untenable.  All we end up with is another manager and 18 months for him to ''shape'' his team.  I just dont think there is anyone out there at the moment that is better than him and personally to give someone 9 games to prove themselve is ridiculous.If Martin O Neil or someone of that ilk was available and we could get him, then fair enough, the only people open to us or who are available are the type that will be able to take us to mid table prem, if were lucky, which is what i feel we have now, your just going to have to fork out a load of money to find out, money which once the parachute payments are gone is going to be replaced by player sales.
  22. [quote user="blahblahblah"]I''m looking further ahead than that Jas. Turning a club around generally takes time (and several hundred other things, half of which are out of your control at any given time, i have no doubt).  People who expect a change of manager to bring a change of form will need to be patient if they get what they ask for.  You won''t be able to force change with knee-jerk reactions to a bad run of form.  Or at least I hope you won''t.  If Worthington goes, I hope the board show the patience they have given Worthington.   [/quote]Lol i would expect nothing but knee jerk reactions from the majority here im afraid... like Citizen''s ridiculous statement of stating Hunter has had no affect (yet im sure ive seen him advocating making him manager else where)... he''s had, what 9 games (how many games would you give a player to make a difference, 5 good performance vs 4 bad)... CFL all you do is post negatively spinned fact after another, there no direct correlation on how much you post and the managers tenure you know ;) (not saying some arent true, but your intentions are so transparent, even when we were on a winning streak).To be honest although i dont think its a good reason for him to go i feel Worthy probably has to because even if he went unbeaten for the next 30 games, if he had another bad run the knives will come out again and we need togetherness in these periods, but they will get their new manager and same thing will happen over and over and over.  I''m not suggesting a new manager wont make a difference, i have no idea, i just dont think they will be any better than what we already have.  I dont think people have given worthy a fair crack of the whip *THIS* season, people have just been waiting for him to slip up.
  23. [quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"][quote user="KidCanary"]I dont know what it will take for some fans to stop with these knee jerk reactions every time we have a poor run of results..[/quote]   or a good run of results? [/quote]Completely agree, but as ive maintained the whole time, even during that run, i want to see where we are 15 games.
  24. [quote user="alex_ncfc"]Oh so it''s 15 games now is it. Christ. It''ll be 30 next won''t it? Then "let''s wait until next season" I just don''t know what it will take for some fans to wake up. [/quote]I''m sorry but which part of my post where i said i have always maintained 15 games did you happen to miss, ive never said 10 games, i dont think its enough.I dont know what it will take for some fans to stop with these knee jerk reactions every time we have a poor run of results..
  25. I dont see why you expect any of your so called ''ktf'' to post, they are opening themselves up for a torrent of abuse.I say still stick with Worthy, my reasoning being that ill make a judgement on where we are after 15 games (and this has always been my stance), if we are outside of the top 6 then, then i''ll agree he should go.  Whether we were to win or lose yesterday has no affect on that for me, it just makes it seem more likely of the latter at the moment, saying that if we then went on to win our next 6 games, which if you look at how are fortunes and form has gone so far is just as likely as losing all 6, then things would be different again :)So to recap, 15 games, must be in top 6 is my requirements for Worthy.
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