Beefy is a legend

flecky, I didn''t see the game but if we are playing one up front for 85 minutes and the midfielders are not making runs forward to provide a second (or only?) target in the box then is that attacking? I know people like to throw the ''one up front'' thing at Hughton. But let''s be fair, Wes is basically playing up front as well, he plays just off the striker because that''s where he''s most effective. It''s exactly the same position as Teddy Sheringham used to play, and no one would say that he''s not a forward.

Well said Flecky, I was also at the game on Saturday, and I have to say that we bossed the first half completely. We kept getting in behind down the channels but the final ball let us down. To simply say that we lost the game through being negative is total nonsense - the second half was more even but in no way were we hanging on. On balance of play we were well in the game but were just undone by one moment - a fine strike and perhaps slightly suspect keeping. I''ve seen a few NCFC teams get relegated and you see certain things that make you realise you are in trouble. I just don''t see that when I watch this NCFC team play. We are struggling for goals of course but I still think we look 100% committed, well organised and most importantly we look like we are well in games most of the time - that will yield points from the remaining home games. I still think we will end up with over 40 points.

I tried him up-front at first, you won''t be surprised to know. Got the left back now but had to do some web-based searching, quite proud of getting the rest considering I was only born in 1980!

I''ve got everyone but the left back can anyone give us a clue?!

quote user="MICHAEL CHOPRA" WE DUNT WANT ANY OF LAMBERTS OLD CRUD, HOOTUN OUT!!!!!   can someone please ban this moron?

Go onto the main website and open the article titled ''Chris Hughton warns Norwich City not to expect any favours from their Premier League rivals''

What a load of nonsense. Talking about 40pts as the main target (which Hughton has been doing, not just the fans) is not showing lack of ambition. Every fan wants us to win every game, finish on 58 points and get somewhere around 7th or 8th. Realistically that isn''t going to happen but making sure we are in this division is the most important goal and everybody knows it. Thereafter, we want to get as many points as possible, and next season most fans will want to see the club pushing on towards a points total in the 50''s. Gradual progression is what it''s all about.  

It was only two weeks ago that he was the guy in the right place to get us the 3 points against Everton. For me he doesn''t look any different physically to how he did 2 years ago. He still did a decent job when he came on today, won a few freekicks and put himself about. He certainly doesn''t have the pace or aerial prowess that a fresh Kamara has shown but I think it''s a little too early to write the guy off yet. And considering how much the guy has achieved for this Club I think the OP is showing a bit of a lack of respect. We might still be in League One but for The Horse.

Just on signings, and with no little credit also to Ewan Chester, he has an outstanding record of bringing in quality. Both keepers have looked like important business, then add on Whittaker, Bassong, Turner, Garrido, Tettey, Snodgrass and Kamara and you can pretty say all have been successes. The failures seem fairly minimal. The jury has to remain out on Becchio at this stage but other than that I''d say Butterfield is about the only one, and he hasn''t really had a crack of the whip yet. No one can deny that Hughton has improved the quality of the squad as a whole.

I couldn''t agree more. Picked the right system, we dominated the early stages, deserved to go ahead and then after a bad mistake from Turner made the right call to take off Wes. We looked solid throughout the game and had the best chances even with 10 men. What''s more I feel that we have a unity about us which will take us a long way. There''s no doubt the players are behind Hughton, let''s make sure we do the same for the rest of the season.

I agree it was one of his better displays. I still think he needs to ''beef up'' physically and he still needs to do more defensively, but he can pass the ball and is much better when we''re on the front foot. I fully expect Tettey to be back for Wigan though.

The one thing that struck me about today''s display is that, despite the comments by some detractor''s on here against Hughton, it is obvious that the players are highly motivated and committed. If they were feeling so ''stifled'' by rigid tactics I think we''d see signs of frustration, but all I say is a bunch of lads giving everything for the cause. Had we got the penalty we deserved then I''m convinced we''d have had 3 points, but in any case with the heart we are showing and our recent record of 1 defeat in 7 games I''m convinced we''re going to steer clear of trouble. Good to see quite a few sides in between us and the bottom three too. West Ham and Sunderland are really struggling...

Well said Parma Ham, It was always going to be a tough act to follow Lambert. And let me say that in none of this do I decry his achievements. It was 3 great years, and I''ll never forget some of the games in that era, being at Portaloo Road for the 5-1 has to be one of my greatest memories of attending a football match. What I am saying is that Hughton seems to have been cast as this defensive merchant who will forever want to grind his way to 40pts each season, and that we are doomed to miserable percentage football until he is sacked. I don''t believe that''s the case. City1st, I take your point re. Lambert in the League One season. To say it took half a season to get us going may have been an exaggeration. Perhaps a couple of months is fairer. I realise the results were there after that 4 game run without defeat, but I still think we performed better as Lambert became established and found the trust to get Wes consistently in the side. Of course, it is far tougher to come into a Premier League side and ''get them going''. There is no doubt that Hughton''s management style is markedly different to Lambert. That is not Hughton''s fault, if anyone has to be blamed, blame McNally. But ultimately this season should, in my view, be seen as a success if we maintain PL status, which we are on course to do.

I don''t really think there was any need for the last sentence there City1st. You''ve made some decent points prior to that, so why resort to the childishness that you appear to be attributing to myself? My own view is that the level of performance is not a great deal different in the last 10 games to the 10 game unbeaten run. There are fine margins at this level, that''s why most managers treat those twin impostors of success and failure the same. We ground out a 1-0 v Stoke, the performance was no different to the draws prior v QPR and West Ham or the draws since, v Fulham, Newcastle and Southampton. We''ve played well against Spurs at home during this supposed stage of ''tactics being found out''. We''ve played badly yet beaten Everton. I haven''t seen an enormous change in level of performance throughout the season. We''ve only lost one in our last 6 games, picking up 7pts, an average haul that would keep us up if translated across the whole season.

''It just goes to show that you have to fit tactics around the players at your disposal.'' and ''Managers have to shape tactics around their squad''s strengths and weaknesses and find the method that they believe is best suited to earning the most points.''   Well Paul Lambert managed to produce both better results and infinitely better entertainment with those players. To suggest that we didn''t, or don''t have the players to produce a more expansive style of play is utter rubbish. Who exactly did we lose from the squad who has cost us so dearly? Aaron Wilbraham perhaps?   ''I suspect we''ll seen a more expansive style next season.''   Where exactly is the evidence for this? Hughton has barely come under any pressure at all despite the dross he continues to serve up. What makes anyone think he''ll change?   Look, I''m not going to argue that, on the whole, the games last season were more entertaining. Lambert had built up his own core of players over 3 seasons to play in styles that he was comfortable with. Again, I''d go back to the League One season and some pretty drab affairs early in his reign - Walsall at home anyone? Managers gain the confidence to play more expansively as the build a group of players and a style which is tried and tested. I will, however, argue that there were some pretty poor games last season. Man City, Sunderland, Blackburn, Stoke, Newcastle, Fulham away, West Brom, Spurs, Wigan, Man City, Liverpool at home were all games where we were very poor. It is only natural to remember the Swansea 3-2, the Spurs away win, the 3-3 with Arsenal but there were some pretty ordinary displays in there too. The evidence for my view that a more expansive approach will be adopted this season, is based upon Hughton''s previous record of entertaining football at both Newcastle and Birmingham. That bears out the fact that he is not an inherently ''negative'' manager. And if you think this season''s football is ''dross'' you obviously weren''t at Charlton on the last day of the Championship season under Gunn. Some people have very short memories.    

"To play the way we do you need clinical goal scorers from all positions to take advantage of any chance we get, that is what is missing for me at the moment"   No, what is missing is chances. An over dependance on set pieces has been found out. We appear not to have a plan B, hence the two up front on Saturday which turned out not to be as Kamara seemed to be dropping back to try and get the ball most of the time.    "The last 10 games of the season we were struggling a bit"   We achieved 1.1 points per game in the last ten games which would have given us 42 points, take the last nine games and that average would have given us 46.4 points over the season. Hardly struggling.   The reality is the apologists arguments are hollow. If this myth about Hughton being hampered by not having the players he needs to play his type of football then how did we achieve that 10 game unbeaten run. What players were they ? And do the current squad not have more of ''his'' players than the autumn squad.   I fear his tactics have been found out and at the moment we do not have alternative.   err...are you seeking to use Hughton''s 10 game unbeaten as an argument against him?! I''ll argue this with you - the games at home v Stoke, West Ham, Wigan etc earlier in the season were not much different to the recent games v Newcastle, Fulham and Southampton. It''s all about the odd moment. I didn''t think we played well against Everton but we won with late goals and everyone was coming out and saying ''what a great game''. I don''t see that things have changed that much since early season. Again, if his tactics have been ''found out'', how is it that we continue to avoid defeat more often than not? I''ll concede to your somewhat pedantic analysis of 1.1pts per game for the last 10 games of last season. I suppose I wasn''t including our 2-0 success against an Aston Villa pub team on the last day. If you don''t include that it becomes an average of 0.89pts per game, relegation form in other words. But perhaps I should have entered an Aston Villa caveat in my initial post...    

I don''t necessarily want to criticise you as an individual, but you have basically started a post that says ''I''m not going to any more away games because of the team''s style''. That''s your choice, fair enough. I''ve watched most of the away games in the pub this season, they haven''t been that great for the most part, but if I could afford it I''d still go to every game and I''m really looking forward to Wigan. I went to a few away games last season, Swansea was great, Fulham was awful. I watched the rest on the telly in the pub and there was good and bad. That''s what football is like for the majority. If you''re not going to enjoy the game, don''t go. For me, it''s about more than just the game on an away day. And there''s always the chance, even this season, that you''ll get a spectacular game like Swansea. I would say that the ''progress'' this season has been more about maintaining PL status, paying off all of our debts and ensuring a big slice of TV money pie next season. I don''t think anyone could realistically expect that we would accrue 60pts and be around the Europa League places this season. We did very well last year to get 47pts, to get a similar total or a few less this season still represents progress for the Club. We have certainly improved the squad. In Bassong, Turner, Snodgrass, Tettey and Garrido, and I suspect Whittaker, we have better players than last season''s equivalents. With another summer transfer window to come we should be able to build on that further and finally put together a wage and transfer budget which is larger than some of our rivals. Maybe then it will be realistic to expect us to obtain a points total in the 50''s rather than the 40''s.          

[quote user="canaryfan68"]Have to say that these comparisons can be made to look how you want them too, after all lambert took over a team that nearly went down last season whereas hughton didn''t. I suggest we look at the situation in 12 months time and compare then as then you will get a ''truer'' picture. I have to agree with some of the points made but there''s an argument to be made constructively from both sides.[/quote]   Agreed. You have to give people a chance. It took Lambo half a season to really get us going in League One. He was judged over three years. Hughton is in his first year. He has to be given the chance to get his players in before he can properly be judged. Most of his signings have been what I would deem ''successes'' - Bassong, Garrido, Bunn, Turner, Snodgrass, Tettey. As I''ve said before, I suspect we''ll seen a more expansive style next season. If we don''t then maybe that will be the time to say that we don''t want to see the Club happy to grind it''s way to 15th place every season. For now, 15th is still a big plus for a Club whose playing budget is probably the smallest in the division.

[quote user="canaryfan68"]Have to say that these comparisons can be made to look how you want them too, after all lambert took over a team that nearly went down last season whereas hughton didn''t. I suggest we look at the situation in 12 months time and compare then as then you will get a ''truer'' picture. I have to agree with some of the points made but there''s an argument to be made constructively from both sides.[/quote]   Agreed. You have to give people a chance. It took Lambo half a season to really get us going in League One. He was judged over three years. Hughton is in his first year. He has to be given the chance to get his players in before he can properly be judged. As I''ve said before, I suspect we''ll seen a more expansive style next season. If we don''t then maybe that will be the time to say that we don''t want to see the Club happy to grind it''s way to 15th place every season. For now, 15th is still a big plus for a Club whose playing budget is probably the smallest in the division.

Just thinking about a few more of those Lambo away days, who can forget our dreadful display at Sunderland? We were also awful at Stoke, Blackburn and Fulham, the latter of which I went to and he got the tactics totally wrong, we were 2-0 down in about 15 minutes. Let''s not forget the great performances at Swansea, Spurs and Arsenal. All I am saying is don''t portray last season''s away games under Lambert as being thrill-a-minute. They weren''t all like that. Balance that to Hughton''s superb 4-3 win at Swansea, good points at Everton and Spurs. Yes we''ve been battered at Fulham, Liverpool and Man Utd. There''s been good and bad, just as under Lambert...

I couldn''t have put it better myself Hacker. We got some serious thumpings under Lambo last season away, at the etihad we were a total shambles. The last 10 games of the season we were struggling a bit but our strong start had already got the job done. Don''t get me wrong, I went to some cracking away games, the 3-2 at Swansea sticks in my mind the most, but don''t paint Lambert as this ''all-out attack'' merchant. As I''ve said on another thread, the difference between Hughton and Lambert is far smaller than most might like to think it is. If you compare Hughton''s Newcastle record (102pts, 90 goals scored) with Lambert''s Villa record (11 goals in 14 home games this season), who then would you say is the ''attacking'' manager? And if your attendance at NCFC matches is dependent on their football philosophy, you better find something else to do. There are plenty of us that went to virtually every PL away game under Worthington (we won none that season), saw away defeat after defeat under Grant and Roeder in The Championship, yet still continued to back the team. That''s what real fans do. I''m off to Wigan at the end of the month, can''t wait for a trip out with my mates, a few beers and hopefully a point or three. OTBC

Whilst no one wants to see Wes playing out wide, I''m not so convinced that we are being ''found out'' tactically. Despite the assertions that we aren''t playing well, we''ve only lost 1 game in 6, at Old Trafford. We are still a pig to play against. It''s not harem scarem excitement but it is still proving effective. We have not lost a single game against any of the bottom 6. The results show that we''re not doing too badly, especially at home. At the start of the season I''d have definitely taken 6 wins, 6 draws and 3 defeats for our home record at this stage. The defeats being against Chelsea, Citeh and Liverpool. Hughton can''t be doing that badly! My point is that however dull the games have been lately, and some of them have been entertaining, we are picking up points regularly and getting the job done. That is what Hughton is here to do. We''ve beaten Man U, Arsenal, Everton at home and drawn with Spurs. Pretty impressive stuff for a guy who some argue is tactically inept.  

Thanks for the kind responses chaps, I agree that we need to utilise our width better. Snodgrass is second only to Bassong for me in the POTS standings. The thing is, you need to get the ball out to wide men early, in good positions, for them to be effective. Sadly none of our midfield players, given Foxy''s exile, have the ability to play an early 30 yard pass to feet. It really is centre-mid where I feel we most need to add real quality. As has been said, Howson has had a disappointing season. I feel he needs more license to get forward because his strength is going forward with the ball and playing forward passes, which he can''t really do in this system of two holding midfielders. I''m not saying we should change the system because it''s getting us points, it just isn''t the best system for Howson. I think he needs to beef-up a bit too, he seems to be knocked off the ball too easily at times. The fact is that Hoolahan came on instead of Bennett because, simply, Hughton thinks Wes is a better footballer and is worth putting on the pitch even if he''s a little out of position.    

All of those posters who constantly harangue Hooton for negative tactics should do well to note that Aston Villa have only scored 11 goals in 14 home games this season, whereas NCFC have 16 from 15 games. It just goes to show that you have to fit tactics around the players at your disposal. Hughton took Newcastle up from the Championship with a swashbuckling style that saw them lose only once in their last 32 matches. They accrued 102pts, scoring 90 goals (highest in the division) and conceding 35 (lowest in the division). Now, I think most would agree that Newcastle had the strongest squad in the Championship that season, and to some extent were expected to bounce back into the Premier League, but the fact is that they did it in style with a huge points total and plenty of entertainment. That indicates to me that Hughton is not an inherently ''safety first'' manager. Further, Villa''s record this year indicates that Lambert is not all ''goals, goals, goals''. Managers have to shape tactics around their squad''s strengths and weaknesses and find the method that they believe is best suited to earning the most points. Since the signing of Becchio and Big Kei we are more often playing 4-4-2. The results have had limited success, and my own view on this is that we have a lack of creativity and passing ability in central midfield. Bradley Johnson has had a solid, consistent season and I don''t want to knock him because he does what he does well, but my view is that next year we will need more nous in that central area to create more chances for the forward players. I think Alex Tettey is the best of the central midfielders we have but even he is not exactly known for his sliderule through balls and that is where I believe we are a little short. If Hughton addresses those areas and perhaps adds a quality striker in the summer then I do believe we will see a more eye-pleasing style next season. Let''s just get to 40pts...

Our away record shows the following: Won: Swansea Drawn: Spurs Villa Reading Everton Southampton QPR Lost Fulham Newcastle Chelsea West Brom West Ham Liverpool Man Utd In the cold light of day, yes we''ve only won once but looking at who we''ve played I don''t think our record is that bad. The win at Swansea was superb, the draws in the main were good results, Everton and Spurs in particular were excellent, and even sides like West Ham and Fulham who we''ve lost to have good home records. Being realistic I don''t think we''ve done that badly. Home points are always the key to survival for a Club like ours in this league.