ron obvious

Interesting to see an impartial appraisal of Norwich''s performance - by a reporter who actually seemed to have been there! Seemed rather more encouraging than posters reports on here; I reckon expectations are rising rapidly, which is a good thing, but please give Glenn & the team a bit of leeway, don''t jump straight on their backs when they have an off day - it will inevitably happen sometime. Just remember the position a month ago!

.........anyone?

God bless us, every one.

[quote user="Big Down Under"] Delia and co aren''t rich enough to buy us out of this league, I doubt the Turners are either. Obviously Roeder believes the budgets he would have in writing before signing any contract are enough for him to turn around our fortunes, or he would be committing career suicide. So I presume we are rich enough for Roeder to get us challenging top 6 minimum. This is the way forward for us as a club, we have to be patient and supportive, we have to allow Glenn to go through a rebuilding process with our current board in place. [/quote] This is pretty well my take on the situation. I''ve said on another thread that promotion was, daft as it sounds, a bad thing, as it wasn''t part of the plan & the board didn''t know what to do; they wanted promotion, obviously, but only after several years of building a stronger squad - how many genuine premier quality players were in that team? 2 or 3 (maybe 4 tops). The only hope for a team like Norwich (otherly gifted benefactor with suitcase full of cash scenario notwithstanding) is to appoint a quality manager with experience, an eye for talent & good contacts in the game.. So far, Glenn looks to be that manager. And isn''t it much more satisfying to do it like that? Rather than just buying success? Much more fun. Mind you, a bit of success would be nice!

[quote user="Congo Canary"] By far the funniest has to be against Chelsea in the Prem. season.  " We''ve got Abramovich, you''ve got a drunken *itch........ was quickly followed by a reply from us, " We''ve got a super cook, you''ve got a Russian crook", probably the best banter between fans i''d heard in a long time, and believe it or not friendly.   Never Blue, Never Ever [/quote] Is that sung to La donna e mobile ? My son, who supports Liverpool, told me of adifferent version of this, sung by the scousers to the Hammers a few years back: "You''ve got Di Ca-ni-o We''ve got your ste-re-o" Tickled me, anyway.

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="T07"][quote user="the1englishman"] That question will never be answered. [/quote] By law its answered each year in the annual accounts. Take a look [/quote] To quote an accountant friend of mine: "I can make a set of accounts paint whatever picture they want to paint.....". [/quote] Exactly, Mr. Carrow. That is why the debate will go on ad infinitum - but please keep your end up, healthy debate is vital for those of who are unpersuaded (but persuadable).

[quote user="Fat Prophet"] Why am I bothering to respond to this?   Yankee, what you glorify as "reason" is your robot brain going clunk clunk.  Robots can be very clever in their own way, but they''re still robots.  Try thinking outside the box occasionally.  If you can''t see that Ron has completely missed the point in his reply to my thread, I really can''t help you. (Apologies to other posters for interrupting the flow of this thread.)      [/quote] So, OK, I''m being obtuse - it wouldn''t be the first time! But I''ve re-read your post & cannot understand the logic of your position. You appear to be insisting that Roeder is telling the truth as he knows it, in which case the board have blatantly lied to him. In that case, he is either not very bright, or very trusting & easily taken in. Put yourself in his position; would you simply take your employer''s word on something as important as this, or make some enquiries on your own behalf? I think Glenn has a bit more nous than you give him credit for. His actions so far do not give the impression of a naive fool.

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"][quote user="ron obvious"] [quote user="The Drop"]You get what you pay for simple as that . .[/quote] Wrong. The problem is you frequently don''t get what you pay for. Also, you sometimes get more than you pay for. How much was Hux? Life is a complex business. [/quote] Very good point. I think one of the reasons it`s all kicking off again is that we absolutely know what we could get with Taylor, he wants to come and yet once again the board don`t want to pay the going rate. I know if he signs in January this board will be full of "I told you so`s" but the fact that the board were prepared to lose him for the sake of a few £100k proves the point some of us are trying to make. Trying to do everything (except infrastructure) on the cheap has landed us with Jarrett, Thorne, Louis-Jean, Hughes etc. Wasted wages and false economy. Unless the supporters get this board to wake up you will get what you deserve-more of the same. [/quote] Agreed, Mr. Carrow, but we don''t know how far QPR were prepared to go, & they have the clout to go a long way. I''ve said before, there are dealers I just don''t bid against at auctions because if they want it, they''ll have it. Mind you, sometimes you get two such individuals bidding & it can be very entertaining. With regard to the duff players, I think this is where the appointment of a good manager & staff is all-important. Thus far, the Board seem to have (finally) got it right!

[quote user="Mr.Carrow"] Ron, football may be a bit dodgy but it hasn`t yet got to the stage where a player can be sold to the highest bidder like a cow . What happens is that the selling club decides on a figure they will accept and whoever agrees to pay that can open negotiations with the player. Both Roeder and the press have said that QPR agreed to pay that figure- therefore we know what we have to match, but we are not prepared to do it, ie. yet again we are not prepared to pay the going rate. [/quote] Mr. Carrow. If you read my post, you will have seen that it is only Tiny himself who can stop the club selling him like a cow  Have you never been to an auction? This is preciselty the situation the club were in vis-a-vis Taylor. There is absolutely nothing forcing Brum to decide on a fixed price in this situation. In fact, it could be argued that they would be selling their shareholders short by not trying for the best possible price - Tiny''s wanting to come here is our only hope. Actually, the best analogy for this situation is buying a house. I nearly always find myself in a situation where I am vying with several potential purchasers & it ends up with an informal auction over the phone. It''s a horrible position to be in, engendering mistrust & suspicion on all sides. I usually pull out & hope the other offers fail, otherwise it''s very easy to commit yourself to a price you can''t really afford. But thet''s life.

[quote user="Fat Prophet"][quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="Fat Prophet"] To spell it out, what was on offer was extending the loan by agreeing a permanent deal which would come into effect on January 1st.  We were in pole position for Taylor and we''ve blown it.  Why would we prefer to get involved in a bidding war in January which can only raise the price?  [/quote] Not once QPR jumped in. Once that happened the bidding war started. [/quote] So what exactly are you saying?  We should only go for players that no one else wants? Had we matched QPR''s price there is every indication that Taylor would have chosen to come here.  We didn''t have to outbid them.  It won''t get any easier in January, so if we had any intention of signing him I can''t see any point in waiting, and we''d have had him for the December games too. Failing to sign Taylor probably increases the risk of relegation and the financial consequences that will follow.  It''s a risk that the board seem prepared to take.  Whatever happened to Prudence when we needed her? For Chrissakes! I will say this only once. Please read carefully. What is there to stop QPR putting in a HIGHER bid, which Brum then accept?  It is not in Tiny''s gift to accept or reject said offer, all he can do is refuse to go where he doesn''t want. It then becomes a battle between him & Brum & is independent of the transfer price.       [/quote]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="ron obvious"] [quote user="The Bishop"]Of course the Club should have matched QPR''s offer. Taylor had become a talisman. To have kept him would have sent the most positive of messages to existing pleyers at the Club, loanees in particular, players outside the Club who Roeder may want to persuade to come to Norwich and, of course, the fans. Not to have matched QPR''s offer and see him go back to Brum was the worst possible, negative message to send to everyone. £1.25 million ? Can anybody tell me what the point of the Turners is and why they wished to get involved in the first place ?[/quote] And if QPR up the ante? Where would you stop? [/quote] why would they up the ante, they have had their bid accepted?? [/quote] Sorry, don''t understand. QPR offer £x, we also bid £x (match the bid) whuch, according to Bishop would have got us Tiny. So, what I''m saying is, what happens if QPR then increase their bid?

[quote user="The Bishop"]Of course the Club should have matched QPR''s offer. Taylor had become a talisman. To have kept him would have sent the most positive of messages to existing pleyers at the Club, loanees in particular, players outside the Club who Roeder may want to persuade to come to Norwich and, of course, the fans. Not to have matched QPR''s offer and see him go back to Brum was the worst possible, negative message to send to everyone. £1.25 million ? Can anybody tell me what the point of the Turners is and why they wished to get involved in the first place ?[/quote] And if QPR up the ante? Where would you stop?

[quote user="Fat Prophet"] To spell it out, what was on offer was extending the loan by agreeing a permanent deal which would come into effect on January 1st.  We were in pole position for Taylor and we''ve blown it.  Why would we prefer to get involved in a bidding war in January which can only raise the price?      [/quote] Not once QPR jumped in. Once that happened the bidding war started.

[quote user="Fat Prophet"] Come down off your high horse Yankee.  All I was suggesting was that the board try using plain English instead of calling a spade a handheld excavation device.   If as you suggest some sort of Machiavellian negotiations are in progress, it could be argued that Munby''s convoluted gobbledegook has played into Brady''s hands by enabling her to drive a wedge between Glenn and the board, because it doesn''t say in so many words that they are both singing from the same hymnsheet.  He waffles on about "making every effort" and "extending Martin''s loan" and doesn''t mention a permanent deal.  The comments to which Karren Brady has responded were made on the club''s official website, primarily for the fans'' consumption.  If they were meant to be a negotiating tactic they''ve effectively drawn the fans into those negotiations.  We have a right to know what''s going on and who, if anyone, is being economical with the truth. All of which is a longwinded way of saying that your post is a load of apologist garbage Yankee, and that''s being kind. . . .   [/quote] Yes, you''ve persuaded  me, FP. Glenn is a deluded chump, in thrall to the oily charms of Doncaster. And , yes, you have a right to know everything. Perhaps we could have a webcam installed in Mr. Doncaster''s office? And the toilets, in case he tries a sneaky call on his mobile? Remind me not to ask your advice when I''m buying a house.

[quote user="Big Down Under"]None of us know, but I think Alex is right and Brum would much rather sell to QPR and offload two players in one deal to a cash rich club. If I was Karen Brady I would probably do just what she is doing, she is far more likely to get a good price for Tiny in the transfer window than selling to us now. Why people seem to think this is a stick to beat the board with I just don''t understand. [/quote] Exactly right. The thing is, the Board haters have an equivalent position to religious zealots; they start from a fixed position (they are Satan incarnate) & keep adding more & more ridiculous assumptions to support this position when things improve. The latest situation with Roeder illustrates this perfectly. Conversely, I have not seen the same blinkered outlook from those who " support" the Board; one thread asked " Who supports the board now?" & all those who did so qualified their support in many ways. All agreed that they had many flaws, could improve & should probably be replaced (by a friendly billionaire) but they are as honest as they can be & are doing their best.

Hallelujah! At last this message board seems to be returning to the level of intelligent debate, as it used to be, rather than the irrational name-calling claptrap that''s infected it lately. I can now log on & find threads containing information, logic & considered views - even better when I don''t agree with them, because they help me think about my own position, which can be as mistaken as anyone else''s. So, really , this is just a thank you to posters like the above (first two - I ''m the 3rd). Please keep posting!

Please read YC on the "what the F***" thread

[quote user="YankeeCanary"]   Norwich call ( three days later ): "Have you considered the possibility of loaning Martin for the remainder of the season?" Birmingham: "Yes, I can confirm there is no interest on our part of extending the loan for any period of time. We will only consider offers for a permanent transfer." Norwich: "What is the amount you are seeking for a permanent transfer?" Birmingham: "Well, you''ve had an opportunity to evaluate Martin. What value would you place on him?" Norwich: " Given that Martin has not been able to command a place in your side which, arguably, you''re having to fight hard to avoid relegation from the Premiership, we think a million pounds would be a very fair offer." Birmingham: "Well, In that case, I have to advise you that we would not even entertain consideration of an offer for that amount. We already have a bid on the table that is at least 25% higher than that and, further, there is interest from a number of clubs. Therefore, Martin will need to return to Birmingham at the end of his current loan period. If you have further interest in Martin at valuation levels we would give consideration to please feel free to contact us as we move toward the transfer window."    [/quote] Yes! that sounds spot on to me - nobody''s actually lying, just being very cagey, very guarded, as I would expect them to be. I might question the £1 mil. opener though. Very astute & intelligent post as always, YC.  Remind me to ask your advice next time I''m buying a house!

To me it''s looking like: Roeder wants Tiny, Tiny wants NCFC. Roeder knows his transfer budget - has done from day one. He wants 3 or 4 players (at least) - including a striker in the Ameobi class. Brady wants top dollar for Tiny (obviously). QPR have (allegedly) bid £1.25 mil., but Tiny doesn''t want to go. So it would appear that matching QPR would blow an unacceptably large hole in Glenn''s budget. On that basis I reckon that the budget - which he agreed - is £2mil. to £3 mil ish, he''s bid about £500k for Tiny & is hoping Tiny holds out for the move in Jan. All a bit risky, but in his position probably the best option. Why has Brady denied there was a bid though? Could it be part of the negotiation stance "so paltry I didn''t even consider it"? Any other guesses?

Must say, this is very worrying. Somebody is blatantly lying. I just hope it''s Brum. If I was Glenn, I''d be on to Brady straight away. Time for the Pink''un to do a bit of investigative reporting, methinks

[quote user="Fat Prophet"]   It''s not a case of lying or telling the truth.  GR is saying what he appears to believe, ie. that the board have done everything humanly possible.  But how does he know whether they have or not?  According to Doncaster the manager does not get directly involved in financial negotiations, so if GR wasn''t there he doesn''t  know at first hand what actually took place.  All he''s really saying is that the board have told him they''ve done their best, and in the absence of evidence to the contrary he has no option but to believe them.   [/quote] How does that work? If he believes it, then he isn''t lying. In that case, however, he is either mentally deranged, incredibly stupid or extremely naive. He may not have actually been there when negotiations were ongoing, but I do not for one microsecond believe he didn''t know EXACTLY what was going on. Or perhaps you think it went something like this: "Did we get ''im then Mr. Grimsdale? Sorry - Mr. Doncaster? "Eeeh no, lad. We tried t''hardest but them Brummies are right hard bargainers." "''Ow much were they after then? "Now don''t you go worrying about that, young Glenn; you just get out there & tell ''em there''s an extra bowl of tripe in it for ''em if we get another win Sat''day." "Right-oh Mr.Doncaster"                exeunt  

[quote user="The Drop"]You get what you pay for simple as that . .[/quote] Wrong. The problem is you frequently don''t get what you pay for. Also, you sometimes get more than you pay for. How much was Hux? Life is a complex business.

[quote user="BlyBlyBabes"][quote user="nutty nigel"] [ TBH I still don''t see what''s wrong with what Doncaster has said. And the way he''s worded the article implicates the whole board so as the Turners or other board members haven''t spoken out against him we can only assume it''s the words of all of them. However, the anger and resentment is still there with many of you but what can you do about it? Roeder has this to say :- Said Roeder: “Karren Brady says they''ve accepted an offer from QPR, but it''s a worthless offer because the player has said he doesn''t want to go to QPR. “She wouldn''t negotiate on the price. “As far as I''m aware, there is no club other than QPR involved. Martin wants to come here and is really disappointed that Birmingham wouldn''t negotiate. “The deal wasn''t viable - there''s no question of that. Birmingham have been very difficult.” Roeder praised Norwich''s directors for backing his efforts to land Taylor. He said: “The board have bent over backwards to help me. A lot of managers won''t have any money to spend in January so the fact that we have some money is very encouraging. “The deal was always going to be very expensive and we need more than one player in January. “We need more quality in this squad. Matty Pattison''s done very well and we have to make a decision on him.” Is he a liar? [/quote] Nasty, nasty. Did anyone say he was. Don''t try and shift the focus to Roeder. You should be ashamed. He''s been let down big time and is putting on a brave face like the gentleman that he is. Quite frankly, I am very disappointed in you and I think you should withdraw your comment. OTBC   [/quote] It''s a rhetorical question. You''re either correct, in which case he is lying (saying something he believes to be untrue), or: He''s telling the truth. The board did back him. Which is impossible. Isn''t it?

[quote user="Royal Anglian all the way"]we all know taylor said hed like to stay here so if we matched brums asking price hed no doubt sign for us, many players have gone to a club that they want to play for even tho that club has actually offered less then the other clubs, sharpe for instance, went to sheffield united, even tho we offered more for him, eastwood was the same, we offered just as much as wolves but he went there, unless the manager is backed and actually can meet asking prices then the only place were going is down, and remember yes qpr have  wealthy backers but so do norwich, a ten mill war chest is hardly going to be missed by the turners, hell id even be happy if they gave a ten mill war chest in a loan form as then theyd get the money back anyway, [/quote] Hang on, surely the board never match anyone''s offer, ever, because they''re so tight fisted? You can''t have it both ways. And the Turners won''t miss the odd £10 mil? I don''t know what kind of business you''re in, but there are only a very, very few very, very rich people around who commit that sort of money without being very, very sure of a return. Otherwise they don''t stay rich very long. We''re all looking for our guardian angel to turn up with brain damage & a suitcase full of cash. Meantime we have to live in the real world. Which can be exciting, like it is at the moment.

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"] The 2.5 million was combined for rowan vine and taylor I think.  Anyway where else are we to get the rumoured fees apart from the papers.  the fee is obviously around a million - a reasonable price. http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/full_article.asp?i=2179&w=25&a=0&part=1   [/quote] Errm, that link quotes £1.25 mil. Somebody else assumes Roeder wasn''t allowed more than £250k. It''s all supposition - as you say, they''re all rumoured fees. Whatever it was, Roeder thought it too much - knowing his constraints, which he knew when he took the job on. And he didn''t come here because he thought he was on a loser. And I trust his judgement. Gonna be interesting.