Desert Fox

Kellybrook,A great suggestion, but I am not sure if Archant (as a commercial organisation) would be willing to part relinquihs day to control as they retain the ultimate responsibility as the pubksihed for libel and defamtion. I am not sure if Pete is willing or able to comment on this matter. Separately, there is the matter of who would be selcted to moderate and whether their independence would be sufficiently respected to facilitate robust discussion. If not, the board would simply die via another route. This is a trick one, but it is a theme that is worth developing in my view. Don''t worry Nigel I wouldnt put myself forward to be a ''plastic mod''!!

Nutty,As you well know, I dont care to debate the past as we will just disagree regarding how close we came to abyss. I am enjoying savouring the present while it lasts and would hope that all genuine City fans feel the same.As for this board, Mello is not the only one to feel that the board is in its death throws. I am in complete agreement with this view. Whether this is just the perception of the ''old guard'' who have become superfluous or something more tangible (no pun intended) will become clearer in time. As with politics, one man''s informative and entertaining is another man''s ''another country''. By the way, this is not some cryptic comemnt provoking grounds for an argument, but simply my take on things.However, what I woud hate to see is the return to the old days of a heavily modertated board with delayed posts, so I guess it is up to all of us collectively to ensure that we keep it going before Archant lose patience - which surely is being tested.

Mello,Hang in there - I regret the fact that your posts have become infrequent in the last year. Keep them flowing, like the fortunes of football teams, there is a natuaral cycle to most things in life, including I guess, the tone on message boards.

Yankee,It must be age thing, but I must agree, your thoughts on tennis resonate with me.As for the other point you have made, I also agree that with growing age, things that used to bother me have less relavance now. However, I do think that this board is now a more agressive place than it was a few years ago and this saddens me. I miss the frequency of some of Mello''s clever observations.

Broadstairs,Agreed, but this wont count for much as Butland is clearly the annointed one. Whilst Hart stays fit, the wider England set up (I dont think this is entirely Hodgson''s doing) can indulge this fantasy. The second that Hart is injured, reality will coldly slap them in the face.

I guess we wont find out unless Hart gets injured for some time as I can see any future friendlies being fudged like last time (45 minutes each). The proviso to this is that Butland''s form doesnt tank with Birmingham - and there have already been some wobbles on this front.

It has been confirmed by the football reporter of the Brighton Argus according to Brighton fans, so I fear the rumour has some substance. He has also confirmed that Brighton are looking at Bothroyd as a replacement, which figures since QPR''s squad limit isnt going to be big enough to cope with all the players they are signing.

re Swansea - they haev also lost a virtually ever present CB in Caulker, had pre-season disrupted by the Olympics and most of their signings are foreigners who can be hit or miss. Certainly a few danger signs, but who knows?

I wonder whether this will change their status as the overwhelming favourites to sign Jordan Rhodes? They have already signed a couple of permanent strikers plus now Lukaku seemingly.

Canary1902,Although I echo the sentiment of your post, we are actually thrid favourites (1.5 to 1)for the drop after Reading (1.2 to 1) and Southampton (1.3 to 1). Bookies dont set prices, this is simply the weight of punters money. We have clearly been marked down in punters mnds because of the loss of Lambert. Whilst this is perhaps undertsandable, what amazes me is how Swansea are viewed as less risky given that their new manager is a bigger risk on paper than Hughton.The best value best for relegation are Stoke and Fulham who are available at 8/1 and 10/1 respectively.

I agree that this season will be as tough, particulalry given that all the teams that are likley to occupy the lower half of the table will be fixated by remaining in the division because of the big leap in TV funding in 2013/14. This may increase risk taking in relation to trasnfer activity - especially in January. Dont rule out Fulham, Wigan, QPR (major squad changes), Stoke (losing momemtum), West Brom and Swansea (new unproven managers) to be drawn in the dog fight with the newly promoted teams.

Let''s be ''aving you!,You must have read a different article to me then - he is clearly a creative player, not a DM

Nigel,I will sign out of this debate, but just for clarity, in case you didnt get it:1. I think the club has been run very poorly for a long time until Bowekett and McNally appeared.2. I think Delia is a well meaning amateur who got found out - but certainly not a figure of hate. 3. Contrary to your belief, I have never cast personal slurs on this website - you simply wont find them, no matter how hard you search, so your memory must be playing tricks. Certainly, the quote you have found above is from me and there is nothing that I woundnt stand by. If you do find anything which looks like a personal remark4. I dont really see the point debating with you as we both have fairly fixed positions on this. I happen to think that I am right, esepcially as I have a background in coporate finance, but equally, I recognise that you think I am wrong. That is fine, but dragging out the past is very boring for everyone else and we should look forward as many of the lessons of the past have been learnt. Can we agree to let this go - I only joined the thread to pull your leg at how poor we have been at selecting managers in recent years. Nothing more - I would be happy to debate this with you.

Nigel,You are right, I dont see any value in debating the past anymore, but I couldnt help challenging the view that Hamilton, Grant, Roeder and Gunn were examples of  good judgement, either at the time or in hindsight.As for my age, of course you are correct. My first match was Everton at home in 1984 (when if my memory serves me right Disco got the winner) and the mighty Kevin Drinkell is still my favourite City player to this day.Dezza.p.s. You definitely have me mixed up with someone else. Personal slurs are simply not my style and i would challenge you to prove any evidence which suggests otherwise.

Nigel,I think that you have me mixed up with someone else. I have been very critical of the way that the club was run in the past, but I have never let this morph into personal slurs about Delia. I stand by what I have always said, I basically think that she is a well intentioned amateur who has had a very close encounter with it all going wrong, and she has now wisely decided to let the professionals run the club. Unfortunately, if you look at Paul Hunt''s letter re the Blackburn situation, this is a lesson that Venky''s are learning the very hard way.You and I will never agree about the money side of things, but must surely recognise that Delia''s track record of picking managers has been very diastrous, which was the point of my response to you.By the way, do you know how old I am? I am not sure that I have ever mentioned this on here? Have a guess, I would be interested to know what you think and I will tell you whether you are right or not.Your buddy "Dezza"

Ricky,To be fairr Keelan  was comepting in agolden age for English keepers. I can think of at least Clemance, Shilton, Corrigan, Parkes and Burridge (of which three won Eurpean Cups at the time). Keelan was unlucky with timing and would compare favourably with the current England roster, except possibly Hart who I rate as truly exceptional.

Purple,Have you read the letter - which is from an insider?Do you think Venkys will re-invest the parachute payment in the squad?Do relegated clubs ever get top dollar for want away star players?Are all of their players really on reduced wage contracts post relagation?If you were a Rovers fan would you be as optimistic?Paul Hunt''s letter is fairly bleak.

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I have a feeling we won''t be left in the same position as Blackburn. I trust Delia to make the right calls.[/quote]Nigel,PMSL Are we talking about the same owner who appointed Hamilton, Grant, Roeder and Gunn? Are we talking about the same owner that stuck by Worthington well after it was obvious to anyone that he had lost both the fans and the dressing room?I dont buy into the Delia is a wicked witch theory, but let''s just say that she has learnt a lesson the hard way not to interfere in something she doesnt understand. She is well meaning, but completely clueless when it coems to picking managers. Thank god that McNally and Bowkett had the balls to stand up to her. The humility (i.e. low profile she has adopted since) says a hell of a lot for me. I am not a Dlia basher, but we are in a better place now after having learnt some harsh lessons.By the way, what''s with this ''buddy'' business - it is hardly endearing.

If you look at the leaked letter (which is published in full on the Sporting intelligence Facebook link) that has jut got their CEO sacked, they seem to be in the poo financially and we can expect a Portsmouth mark 2.https://www.facebook.com/pages/sportingintelligencecom/355347150182?created

TFA,I really hope so, but they will need to conjure a win away at the Brittania and they have just lost David Wheater to a cruciate injury.

Yellow Blood,I can think of two reasons straight away:1. The highly dimissive nature of many of their fans about us at the start of the season becuase we were not spending like them. Whose laughing now?2. That truly horrible ''hoops'' noise that they make when they score. I am sure that I could think of more if pushed.DF

[quote user="Making Plans"]Mark Hughes is displaying the same traits that cost him his job at Man City - poor use of talent, an unreliable defence and disciplinary disaster.[/quote]Making Plans,Are you are Isaac from Machester (who posted the exact same post as you on the BBC live match site at 4pm this afternoon)? Is North Walsham your weekend holiday residence then?"Isaac, Manchester, via text: "Mark Hughes is displaying the same traits that cost him his job at City - poor use of talent, an unreliable defence and disciplinary disaster."

Stoke qualified in that way as losing finalists, but surely they wouldnt do a ''countback'' system beyond that. What happens if the two finalists qualify through the league and the two runners up dont. How would they split them other than having a play off? My guess is that the place would go to the next highest league team. Anyway, here''s hoping that we dont qualify for Europe - look at the impact it is had had on Stoke recently.

Pete - this is not an issue for the law, but rather the strategy of the particular sponsor concerned.

Ok Nutty -let’s try to have a sensible debate. Focusing simply on the points that Purple raised at the start of the thread, I would make a number of observations. 1. DS and MWJ are not what I would call experienced business people and I think many of the mistakes that they made stem from this source. This should not be confused with them being successful in the field that they operate in (i.e. publishing). I don’t doubt for one minute that they are well meaning and have put a lot of their own money at risk, but just because they are better than some alternatives (e.g. Venky''s etc) it should not be forgotten that we escaped from a very dangerous place by the skin of our teeth. As far I can see, there has never been any recognition of why this position arose, although thankfully, there is every sign that the owners realised that they had better leave the detailed running of the club to professionals. This is the really important to thing to focus upon going forwards. 2. Forget about voting numbers, the reality of the near administration meant that Bowkett and McNally effectively had the opportunity to force the owners hands on a number of issues, of which sacking Gunn was the highest profile. It has been noticeable how much lower Delia''s profile has been this time round. Stephen Fry has proved useful in deflecting attention. 3. I thought that the way Doncaster ran the club had a big part to play in us nearly going into administration. I would like to say more about what I really thought about this guy and his approach to dealing with supporters, but I wouldn’t want Pete to have to delete my post. Let’s just say I don’t think that many of his statements lacked integrity, on more than one occasion. 4. Purple is glossing over just how much of a disaster our non-totalling investments were. The land development plans and other capex projects were more than just LSE land and these nearly brought the club down. Also, we fundamentally adopted the wrong strategy when last in the Prem re the balance between capex and team investment. The delay in signing Ashton cost us dearly. Again, there is no hard evidence about the summer deal, but I have spoken to enough credible people to, lets say, take with a massive pinch of salt what we were told on this subject. Again, looking forward, the new regime has clearly learned from their mistakes. 5. Nobody on here knows how successful the hotel will ever be because the club does produce segmental accounts, but my gut feeling is that it will turn out to be the wrong deal in time. Can I substantiate this? No. Can anyone argue the other way? Yes. Are they likely to be able to share any supporting material on this site? Probably never. Again, there is no point looking backwards as this is a done deal and we will have to honour the deal. I could go on and on with at least another twenty points about various aspects of the original post. But you know what, I am getting bored of typing and will leave it at that. We are unlikely to agree about many of the issues about the past. Let me sum up by saying that I believe that DS and MWJ have made a lot of mistakes and must have got pretty scared by how much of  a car crash we nearly became. But from this near disaster, we have clearly learnt many lessons which are being adhered to. So, I am happy so long as this learning stays in place. This is the key issue and I really see no point dragging up the past again and again - this would only really matter if lessons had not been learnt. So having said that let''s have a sensible debate, I am not sure that I do want to debat anything now if that makes sense.