Carlos Valderrama

Andy Hughes - In the season before we signed him he played in every position for Reading except GK, the season before that he was Readings top scorer. Dickson Etuhu - Clearly has talent, lacks consistency (obvious stated) - Is slating him going to do anything to help? Ian Henderson - Lightning quick and young.  Did well at youth and reserve level.  Personally I think he has it, his body just needs to develop, Chris Martin is already strong enough and is showing how good he can be.  I think the same might apply to Henderson. MLJ - Slammed and slated every week, poor sod is injured.  Quite a serious injury too, might even end his career at 29/30.  Not his fault, would be good to have fit as he has looked a handy right back when I have seen him. Agree or not, your choice.... If we are going to slate people I say we choose McVeigh who clearly doesn''t give a monkeys any more and Peter ''I wish I''d stayed at Cardiff'' Thorne.  

[quote user="Rossi"] [quote user="jimmy500"]Is the Hughes bashing back because Etuhu has been playing OK of late.  Why do we always have to have a whipping boy at the club.  I can confidently predict that if Hughes plays a blinder in the next 3 matches this forum will find someone else to hammer. [/quote] I look at things a bit different Jimmy. Whipping boys as you say are players IMO that are the ones that persistently are weak and let the side down and everyone wants to see a better play there.Now, if hughes or etuhu were not playing then it may be the doc or someone else. The thing is over the past few years who has been ''whipping boys?'' I can think of Hendo, and his defence was that he was out of position, not that he wasn''t good enough, but he''s done little to prove otherwise. Etuhu on his game is very good, but that happens once in a blue moon - thats why he couldnt get into Prestons team and they would rather have had Jarrett (another whipping boy) Hughes was roundly cheered on his departure from Reading - where he was seen as a weak link - and he''s done nothing here to suggest otherwise. It''s not just about effort, but ability, and fans of this club expect a player with a footballing brain and an ablity to pass a few yards to their own players. If the cap don''t it then find someone who it does fit. I dont necessarily think that having a go at the player makes it right, or that they deserve it, after all they need more encouragement than the others in a sense, but when a team should play better, when our season shouldnt be over at xmas, then disappointment is rife and it is natural that people vent their steam - they are the paying cusomer after all. Anger has to be vented in someway, if it wasnt the players then it would be the manager or board as we have seen. I''m not saying its right, but it is understandable. [/quote] Henderson was a whipping boy from the moment he debuted for the first team, whipped to the point where he looked sh*t scared of making a mistake.  Potentially a real talent, completely destroyed at just 17 by the crowd.  Jarret was whipped because he didn''t do brilliant straight away, he was never even given the chance to settle. You are right in some respects, ability is the be all and end all but I honestly believe that some of our whipping boys have it.  Trouble is they are hammered at every turn by the boo boys and the whippers.  Slagged to kingdom come in forums like this.  The confidence in these lads is probably shot to bits, no wonder they don''t perform, they are too bloody scared of mis-placing a pass, or skying a shot over the bar, or missing a tackle.  My point is, because they get so much stick they are trying too hard most of the time and end up making mistakes.  If they are allowed to relax and enjoy their football we might see a different bunch of players. I know I will probably get hammered for this post but why not give it a try.  We have been moaning, slagging and whipping constantly for nearly 2 whole seasons now and we have done sh*t.  I''m not saying back the team to the hilt and sing your hearts out but to try and watch the games a little more objectively, ignore the mistakes, applaud the good stuff, and if we are going to slag people off lets do it a little more constructively.

Is the Hughes bashing back because Etuhu has been playing OK of late.  Why do we always have to have a whipping boy at the club.  I can confidently predict that if Hughes plays a blinder in the next 3 matches this forum will find someone else to hammer. 

[quote user="jas the barclay king"] [quote user="dazzling canary"]Out..gallagher.in Marshall,..Out..Colin,Hughes,...in Taylor(wigan) out..Docherty in Collins,Gabbidon, out..Mcveigh in Hendrie Out Etuhu..in Holland...out..Thorne..in Mcleod,Easter,[/quote] Izale McLeod is crap! i saw him in the championship for Derby against us and im not joking but he looked like the worst player i have ever seen! theres a reason he''s in league 2... and thats because he is out of his depth in the higher divisions jas :) [/quote] He was only 17 when he played for derby, he is 21-22 now, players generally get better with age.....scored a hatful of goals for MK this year.  Worth a gamble IMO....

[quote user="GJP"][quote user="jimmy500"] I must admit that my old dad has a point when he says drop the lot of them and play the kids.  After all a team of hungry 16-18 year olds can''t do any worse than that bunch of overpaid t**s*rs. [/quote] If we played the kids from the start of next season we''d be relegated before Christmas. [/quote] Congratulations for stating the obvious, it was a tongue in cheek quip. Pr*t

Out.... Safri Croft Doherty McVeigh Thorne Gallagher In...... Anyone who can pass, tackle and shoot, and actually play with pride, passion and commitment!!! I must admit that my old dad has a point when he says drop the lot of them and play the kids.  After all a team of hungry 16-18 year olds can''t do any worse than that bunch of overpaid t**s*rs.

[quote user="djcat"] Chris Sutton vs Southampton in F.A.Cup quarter final reply. A last minute winner from memory. May even have been in extra time. Granted, it was a mis-hit shot by Goss (?) that bounced up and hit Sutty on the head, but it went into the far corner of the River End goal, and saved us from crashing out on dreaded penalties. shame though about the Semi away at Hillsborough vs Sunderland [/quote] I can remember that game, I was stood in the Barclay.  Neil Ruddock and Cockerill had been sent off for the saints.  Don''t think that sutton knew too much about that goal though.....Better goal in the game before against west ham when disco skinned 2 and slotted one in the opposite corner off the post.  That goal even got a mention on eastenders.... Fave goal though, Safri v Newcastle, I remember standing there thinking ''jesus, wow!!!!!''.....It was a peach, I even youtube it every now and then....

Agree with this totally, no cover needed.... I think the real question is though, who partners Martin up front, Huckerby or Earnshaw?  I think that it is good for Norwich to have both options in the squad, plus Huckerby isn''t getting any younger, 31 next year... Personally, and as much as it pains me to say it, Huckerby should make way for Earnshaw.  Earnie will get 25+ next season (if he stays fit), Martin could quite easily get 15-20. We could try and play a 4-3-3 system with Huckerby playing just off an orthadox front 2, then he could pop up wherever he wants.  This is probably unlikely as Grant seems to like a good old fashioned 4-4-2. On the plus side though, what a nice problem to have, what a motoivator for whoever is out of the team.

right wing is crazing me.......I am sure it will come to me, mental block at the moment.....

MLJ!!, is he a real person, I thought he was just a figment of the clubs imagination. And leave Nigel Worthington and his team at McD''s alone.  I have spoken to Nigel about the shocking service and he said that he couldn''t fault the committment and effort.  Thats good enough for me..... 

[quote user="Hump"] Dear Jimmy I am pleased that I have put some humour into your life as I believe it is not difficult to entertain simple people. Pleased to see that you accept at last there are loopholes but upset that you called me a berk when I thought we were attempting an adult debate and getting on so well.  I am pleased that you are interested in who I am and would be delighted to answer any questions you may have about Academy football..I accept your apology in advance for calling me names and look forward to keeping you well informed. PS I did the trip from Norwich to Cambridge last night in 1 hour and 5 mins so you were right, although I did stop for a Mc Donalds at Thetford   yours faithfully Bond James Bond [/quote] No worries, 1hr 5, not bad going.  And you didn''t break the speed limit once!!! Agree now and admit, yes there are loopholes, I was wrong.  That was a good little debate there for a while, I have learnt a lot, thanks to yourself and flufty. Still disagree with everyone on the flying thing though.  You simply must count check in time.  Also, because I regularly travel to Cambridge with work I always allow an hour and a half.  My record is 50 minutes, but that involved serious motoring, my worst is close to 3 hours (I hate the bit near Mildenhall). So once again thanks, I do have questions but will probably start a new thread to discuss, hope you can contribute.  Its nice to have serious debate here that does not involve sacking/selling anybody. PS - The berk bit was meant in the nicest possible way, no offence intended. 

I also think Etuhu did well.  I thought Lappin did especially well. For me man of the match was Huckerby, what a great goal, also such a great threat that Birmingham at times had 2/3 players on him.  Man of the match for me. Thought Croft could have done better, did OK but I want to see him running at and beating his man more often.  Perhaps with Chadwick back and pushing for his (or Lappin''s) place we could see much more from him.

Thanks flufty.  Very very interesting post, I know exactly the sort of competitive dad you are talking about.  I honestly hope to god I am not like that with my boys when they are old enough.......

[quote user="Matt Juler"] Would Norwich really allow scouts in the directors box? I know we''re an odd club at times, but I really don''t think so! [/quote]   Why not, hopefully then the clubs would afford our scouts the same hospitality.  After all we can''t stop the scouts, and by allowing them in we know who we are dealing with, better than not knowing.  Also if it is chelsea then we can add an extra zero or two to the price.

Thanks for clearing that up flufty.  So to summarise (and hopefully understand better) the 90 minutes is travelling only, does that mean that realistic distances are calculated and the club issued a specific catchment area? Or is anyone from anywhere fair game? I agree that it can take up to 90 minutes to get to beccles sometimes, sometimes it can take that to get from one side of the city to the other!!!!  The point I was trying to make was ''realistic travelling time'' in response to the berk who stated that you could get from norwich to cambridge in under the hour.  I disagree with you with regard to flying, surely, a 2 hour check in period would count in the 90 minutes.  I have read numerous documents and web pages regarding this since this little debate started (a bit of one upmanship and ammo hunting) and I must say that the rules and guidelines are wooly to say the least.  The whole format seems to be a little bit on the fence with no definitive you cannot do this and you can do that (from what I have seen thus far).  So yes, there are loopholes, big huge gaping loopholes to exploit. Also, your final comment....What is not working, the 90 minute rule? the academy system in general? or both........ I actually find this subject quite interesting, plus I am always willing to learn and understand things better.  Perhaps you would be prepared to embellish a little deeper.......or point me in the direction of stuff that is already written. Thanks 

Hump/Oracle TRAVELLING TIME - To get from point A to point B, regardless and irrespective of whether or not you are actually moving.  As I stated before traffic and other things are factored in.  And yes I have also read the FA rule book.  And you can''t bend rules when it comes to minors.  I agree that the rules could probably be bent for players aged 16 and over but not under.  Also if you read further into the rules it states, with regards to satellite academys that due consideration is given to clubs where travelling time is a potential issue.  (they i.e London, I would assume this is because of TRAFFIC restrictions). Also, your statement about not revealing who you are is hilarious.  Secret Agent Hump, FA rule book writer and part time secret agent.  Let me guess, you could tell us who you are but then you would have to kill us.  Me personally, I don''t care who you are, do you work for the FA, are you employed by the club, do you work in Football, that is all I am interested in. I am, as you state prepared to trust you on this because I am not the oracle of knowledge.  I do however believe everything I have said to be true, and because I am sad loser with nothing better to do all day I have sent the FA an email asking them to clarify the position on this.  I don''t like to lose any debate, but, if I am wrong I will happily hold my hand up and say ''Yes, I was wrong, I am an argumentative berk''.

1.   The 90 minute rule has not been in force for that long.  It is a recent thing to prevent young children from travelling extreme distances and thus suffering with schoolwork etc.  Also, as I have recently stated, if the talent is good enough then clubs like Manchester can re-locate families, even provide jobs for parents. 2.   It is 2 hours for most flights regardless of destination.  I regularly fly to Aberdeen from Norwich and I have to check in 1 hour before the flight, this is with eastern airways, the rules are different for say Easyjet.  Regardless of whether the flight is internal or not the check in period is to allow the airline to calculate weight, weight positioning, fuel, baggage in order to calculate take off speed etc. 3.   I can''t explain Michael Spillane or Asmat el Ougari for sure but i think.....El Ourgari was 16 (different rules) and Spillane''s family is in norfolk. We have a youngster called Kris Renton from Scotland, again he was over 16. My point is the 90 minute rule has been set up for younger players who still have schooling commitments and to help the distribution of wealth and talent accross the lower leagues. To back up my point, why are there no talented youngsters coming through from outside the area, Jarvis brothers - Attleborough, Henderson - Thetford, Martin - Beccles, the same is true for all of the players who are under 16 and most of the 17-18 year olds.  Go back a few years and we had youngsters from all over the country.  I bet if you look at the squads from other clubs all the under 16 players are local boys.

[quote user="Putney Canary"] You mention a figure of 60k for transfers, but we spent more than that, and the figure doesn''t include wages. You do know we have one of the highest wage bills in the league? Sometimes I think some people don''t count the wage bill as an expense! In the modern game, it is very common for much more money to be spent on wages than on transfer fees. And also common for agent''s fees to equal or be bigger than transfer fees. If you look at ALL the expenses, it might answer your question about the ''missing money''. As for Grant being cheap and inexperienced, certainly yes to the inexperienced and probably to the cheap (but remember everything is relative). But don''t you think the team is looking better since the transfer window? I think Grant needs more time before we can judge him, at least 10 games into next season when he has had a chance to bring in more players of his choice. As for the restaurant, why is this such an issue? Most clubs run restaurants and corporate hospitality, especially in the Championship and above. Don''t you think that having a nationally recognised Chef on the board can only help Norwich run one better? It makes a good profit doesn''t it? I HATE the fact that such things as restaurants and hotels are becoming part of the modern game, but they are at most clubs around the country because to play at the top level takes more money than you can earn from gate receipts and the tv money given to Championship clubs. For this I blame the way the game is run, and therefore believe the fault is 100% with the FA. [/quote] Totally agree with everything you say.

Hump, common sense tells me I am not wrong about my ASSUMPTIONS.  Explain to me this, what is the point in having a 90 minute travelling rule for youngsters if.......... Driving - In normal circumstances they are going to spend 90 minutes travelling + 30 minutes to 1 hour in traffic = 2 - 2.5 hours Flying - 60 minute flight, lets assume 30 minutes to the airport = 90 minutes + 2 hours (minimum check in) = 3.5 hours NOT  90 minutes...... Also I do not claim to know 100% what is involved, I am merely stating what I know to be fact.  Anything over and above I am happy to state that I do not know.  Seeing as you are the oracle of knowledge regarding this please explain to me what the score is, and justify exactly how and why you know all. 90 minutes travelling time - 90 minutes total - not 120 minutes, not 300 minutes - 90 minutes maximum.  FACT. . 

You still have to factor in the youngsters travelling time to the heliport.  Plus this would be a tad expensive. My suggestion is that we speak to the BBC and see if they will lend us their Tardis. The 90 minute rule is set in stone, there are no loop holes.  NONE.  Each club has a catchment area to cherry pick from, unfortunately ours is full of villages and small towns.  Also I think that because East Anglia is a fairly affluent area there are no ''Street Kids'' who spend every spare hour kicking a ball in the streets.  All the best talent historically has come from lesser back grounds, Liverpool, Manchester, Central London, Birmingham where quality of life is not as nice as that in our region. Think back over the years and how much talent has actually been local..... Danny Mills, Ruel Fox, Dale Gordon - All Local Craig Bellamy - Wales, Robert Green - Chertsey, Ade Akinbiyi - London, Chris Llewellyn - Wales, Darren Eadie, Jamie Cureton, Jason Shackell - None from this region. We will find talent (Chris Martin) but it will be rare.

Smudger, in reply.... Blackburn won the league 12 years ago, it cost them in the region of £50 million, an absolute fortune back then.  Chelsea have only stepped up to the plate because of their billionaire owner, £300+ million spent.  Nottingham Forest 1979 is completely irrelevant. Post war football hasn''t always been so predictable.  If you look from 1997 back you will see loads of different teams in the mixer.  Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Manchester City, Nottingham Forest, Wimbledon, Everton, Derby County, Tottenham, Norwich City, Newcastle United.  All capable of winning things.  The FA cup was exciting, who would be the next giant killers, who would win it.  The league cup was even exciting.  (I agree that the league has always been a little predictable) I point you to the Newcastle United ethos under Keegan, we will score more than you......The point I am fuddling to make is that football is not as entertaining as it used to be.  It is boring and predictable, 4-5-1 has killed the entertaining side of football. It is irrelevant to go back in time and harp on about yesterday, football today is boring, right up to the international team.......... 

No, the travelling time is based on when the youngster leaves his front door to when he arrives at his destination.  Traffic, speed limits and other situations are factored into this - FACT. This is to protect the younger talent who still have other things to do like go to school and get an education.  Yes we can give an alternative plausible address but this must involve a parent or guardian, you can''t just shove a 15 year old kid into digs. I do however concede that after the age of 17 things are slightly different because then temporary accomodation can play a part.

I agree, I have also lost the passion and I too am going to walk away from the club I have supported since I was a boy. I have been a fan for 20 years, I haven''t missed a home game in 5.  Now I am just sick and tired of going to watch the rubbish football served up and the increasing costs associated with doing so.  I have decided not to re-new my season ticket, and, as much as it suprises me I really am not that bothered.  I don''t think I will miss it at all. However, I will still go to the odd game as a casual fan, I will still watch Norwich when they are on the TV, I will still listen to the games on Radio Norfolk and I will still tell people I am a Norwich City fan when they ask what team I support. Football in general is the problem.  I don''t blame Delia, Peter Grant or even Nigel Worthington.  Football below the top 4 is on a sad decline.  The stakes are too high, there is too much to lose, too much money at stake.  No one gambles any more.  How many teams actually go out on the pitch with the intention of winning the game.  None probably, they all go out with one thing in mind, and that is to firstly avoid defeat.  That is the problem with the game today. Smudger, what do you think an open cheque book will do? Guarantee success?  Get real.  Does anyone honestly believe that we had success under Robert Chase, what did we win? 1 league cup, woooooooo!!!  Look at the stats for the last 10 years, look at how many times a major trophy has gone to a club outside of the top 4.  It doesn''t happen.  There is nothing to play for, nothing to win.  How can anybody be passionate about that. Oh, and finally Smudger....Newcastle United are backed by 52,000 fans every week, have spent millions on players, have they won anything lately? Everton 38,000, Wolves 25,000, Aston Villa 35,000, the list goes on & on.  It doesn''t matter how many fans you have or how much money you spend there is nothing to play for, nothing.

Flying is in fact not an option as you have to factor in waiting time at airports.  How many flights have you taken where you walk into the airport and get straight on the plane.  None, the country is not our oyster, it is no ones oyster.  The rule was set up to help lower league clubs secure the best talent within their catchment areas, ensuring that the big boys do not cherry pick all the talented youngsters. We can argue this until we are blue in the face.  There are no loopholes to exploit. The only way around this is to relocate entire families at great expense, unfortunately this is only available for the richest of clubs and for the most exceptional talent.  I also believe that out of town training centres are out of the equation too as these would also be very costly. 

90 minutes gets you from Norwich to Cambridge.  Cambridge is 65-70 miles away, yes you can get there in an hour but these things are worked out scientifically taking into account speed limits, traffic and distance.  They are not worked out by some bloke from the FA setting off from Carrow Road in his Mondeo. Why can''t people reply with a little common sense.