Big Jim

Marty, that reply must''ve taken an age to put together and was rather impressive! As you so rightly point out, i post so infrequently on here that i really don''t have the same time(or inclination if i''m honest) to put similar effort into an 8 point(!!)reply, sorry about that. All i will say is that neither i nor any of my friends are "sub human" nor of "limited intelligence", quite the opposite in fact, although last time i looked football was meant to be an inclusive sport, so i don''t have any problem with such people coming along to games. As you so rightly say there is no place for racism or fascism of any type in the game, IQ tests at the turnstiles are not needed from my point of view!  As such, i like to see a broad spectrum of the human race at our games. Nerds, lads, OAP''s & dads are all fine as long as no one group takes over and no pointless superiority contests take place, i don''t even(and this''ll shock you) have a problem with lasses coming along, as long as it''s for the same reasons we all go. I''m sure when my little girl''s a bit older i''ll be taking her along to the odd match, although let''s just hope she doesn''t turn out like 99% of the women i''ve known at the football over the past 25 years, ie put on a good act at being interested in the game for a short period whilst in reality only actually going along to a)pull a boyfriend; b)keep an eye on what the boyfriend is up to or; c)gawp at the players'' legs in a testosterone filled environment. I know that sounds extremely sexist and unfair but that is the experience of pretty much every female supporter(and there have been quite a few) we as a group have met over the years. A serious question, did your girlfriend go before you met her and if you ever went your seperate ways do you honestly think she''d carry on going? If the answer is yes and yes the all i can say is well done, you must''ve found a good ''un!

It never fails to amaze me that this question crops up every single time there is a big international rugby game on terrestrial television, the answer is very simple and very obvious if you have even the slightest knowledge of the history and politics of sport. It''s a class thing pure and simple. From the time when the two codes seperated, football evolved as the sport of the working class male whilst rugby union remained a bastion of the upper/middle class privately educated elite. Thus both sports were subsequently shaped by their respective audiences, the rough, tough and dirty world of football developed on one side(crowd trouble is not a recent phenomenon incidentally, it has occured ever since professionalism & the first ground closures happened as far back as the 1920''s) while a more regimented, rules & etiquette obsessed world developed in the (admittedly still tough game of) rugby side of things. Obviously, in recent years the class profile of both sports have altered somewhat, there are certainly more posh people in our game now and during things like the rugby world cup many more traditionally working class people show an interest in the egg chasing, however the accents on show in the after match interviews with players from the respective codes still give the game away when it comes to the class bias. This is irrelevent anyway however as it''s it''s the history of the first century of the sports'' that have made them what they are today, not the last decades'' limited changes.  Before anyone brings in the rugby league argument, don''t! You simply cannot compare it to either of the other sports, it''s a sort of halfway house that grew up in the Northern areas that didn''t embrace either football or rugby union from the start. Yes, they are(slightly) better behaved both on & off the pitch than we are in football, but the cow towing to authority is no where near as ingrained as it is in the union game. The same goes for crowd behaviour, it hasn''t got the same history of spectator aggro that football has had over the years but again they''re not the little angels from rugby union either. My family have links in Hull and games between Hull KR & Hull FC consistently create trouble for the local constablary, whilst a couple of recent cup semi''s have featured mass pitch invasions too. 

[quote user="Marty"]Big Jim, so what suggest I lead a sheltered life, that fact that I don''t regularly observe thugs beating seven shades of cr*p out of each other at a footy game? I have probably lead (and still living) a more colourful and fullfilling life than yourself, and not really sure why objecting to cretinous and banal behaviour of thugs makes me some sort of introvert, that I am not! When I go to a game all that I am bothered about are the fans around me, any other hangers on and this wonderful undergound hooligan mob you obviously know so much about (which mean you have lead a less sheltered life than me of course!) has nothing to do with football. But in general Norwich city have a good friendly image, sorry to burst some of your bubbles folks! pick a harder team if that is what you are after, you''re not welcome anymore. Also, I didn''t say you could do it but not in front of me, I said you won''t do it front of me! also, for the record, the moron that got chucked out was actually behind me, now I proved my point, I was instrumental in his ejection from the ground and there were no punches thrown and not one expletives from me, so maybe check your definition of fighting talk fella. I am just a pricipled decent guy who doesn''t like to tolerate filth. [/quote] I don''t really have any idea about how my dull and meaningless life compares to your wonderfully colourful & fulfilling one Marty, all i will say is that you''re the one that drags his girlriend along to matches whilst i go to the game with a bunch of long standing friends, try it sometime, you may find it lightens things up somewhat. Also, out of interest, when you say "you won''t do it in front of me" how exactly would you enforce this tough talk without getting into a confrontation with this mythical bloke in front of you and your girlfriend? I''m guessing here, and correct me if i''m wrong, but would it involve going running up to the nearest steward and having a bit of a whinge? You accuse the Norwich lads(whom i have nothing to do with incidentely, i merely keep my eyes & ears open rather than sticking my head in the sand) of acting like kids in the playground, well my boy is always "telling on" the bad lads in the school playground at lunchtime... A final thought. The chap you had the run in with at Leicester(incidentely, how innocent a bystander were you when he chose to single you out over the 2999 others there, methinks you may have done a little something to have got him so wound up), and i''m putting 2 and 2 together here, but i''m pretty certain  i know who it was and if it is this person there are a few things to be said. The bloke does drink too much, this can not be denied, and he can be pretty obnoxious at times after one of his 24 hour sessions. However, and this goes against the "all the yobs aren''t real fans, only us good boys & girls are" argument that''s been peddled on this thread, this bloke has had a season ticket since the early eighties(as have i incidentely) so predates most of the "season ticket since 2002" brigade that take such superior delight in having posted a thousand times on here whilst belittling those of us who would rather have a footballing discussion face to face with their mates. He also very rarely misses an away game and is as such a very recognisable and popular face among the most loyal City supporters, can the same be said of you and your girlfriend?  

[quote user="Marty"][quote user="Jim Smith"] With respect these dinosaurs are people that have in many cases been going to football for 20-30 years. Its all very well banging on about people standing up and there being a bit of an edge to the game but frankly if football ever loses its edge then I for one will be very sad. Perhaps the most telling aspects of those who seem so uptight by Saturday''s events and who compain about standing up in grounds then they generally all contain words to the effect of "my girlfriend and I were very upset." That tells you everything you need to know. There are a new breed of fan who go to our games these days and I''m not critcising that but this new breed of fan should accept that there are also still oldschool fans about for whom going to football with the lads, exchanging a few "pleasantries" with the opposition fans and yes, occasionally a bit of a tear-up are what football has always been about and that will never go away. Certain away trips will always be a bit tasty and those of us who go home and away know which ones they will be. Not condoning the violence but at the same time i''m sick of the sanitisation of the game. Give me the buzz 2,000 of us going down to Portman Road on a Friday night knowing you were in for a rough ride over watching 10,000 kids at Preston wave giant clappy stick things anyday. I also will ALWAYS stand during the game if given the option. Makes for a much better atmosphere.   [/quote]   Utter tripe, what is a bit of a tear up? if you get a buzz from hooliganism so be it, you are in a dying breed. I have every right to watch football with my girlfriend and if you have an issue with that you are the kind of dinosaur I was referring too. For the record I have been watching football for over 25 years and am pleased to see it become more civilized, whereas this may not please the likes of you and your cohorts it pleases most decent football fans.  As for standing, you can do it if you want but guarantee it won''t be in front of me, fact.   [/quote] Not quite a "dying breed". I''m a bit old and settled down and cowardly for it all these days, and the kids really wouldn''t like it, but if you ask your friendly local Football Intelligence(sic) Officer(he''s a policeman if you didn''t realise Marty, as you seem to lead a very sheltered life), he will tell you that City''s hooligan mob is the largest it has been in years. British Transport Police said over 200 "active" hooligans travelled to Leicester on Saturday, you can double that number when you add on the non "active" hangers on who condone, and even encourage, their actions. A minority of the 3000 who went to the game yes, but a pretty sizable(and growing) minority nonetheless. As for "you can do it but guarantee it won''t be in front of me,fact" well that, my man, sounds like fighting talk unless i''m very much mistaken. Easy to get dragged into these situations isn''t it?!!! 

[quote user="I OWN THIS CLUB"] A very big club in the making, lol. Are you joking????? We are an average sized club with a rubbish board. Maybe we are the next Chelsea or Man Utd, i may be wrong but i doubt it. [/quote] The club stated that in the promotion and prem seasons the demand was there for regular 35,000 crowds. That would put us in the top 8 or so in the country in terms of attendances-i think you can class that as very big. Why not try countering the points in Saint Canary and Mr Carrows posts and explain why City CANNOT be a big club rather than resorting to a bland statement backed up by precisely nothing?

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"] A common problem with football fans is ''Short memory syndrome'' basically some football fans are unable to remember any further back than the last season. The consequence of this is that they attack the board for the teams short term failings unable to see the bigger picture i.e past/future sucess and the general stability of our club.   [/quote] Is this the same "short memory syndrome" which makes a large proportion of City supporters praise the board for their "ambition" in signing Crouch, Huckerby and Ashton, when the transfer fees were largely payed for by the fans in share issues and the non-redemption of the B preference shares? But then the board dont mention that any more do they? Hmmmm,i wonder why? Good stuff Mystic Megson and Cluckin,please keep it up....it will sink in eventually.....!

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"] Pointless post in my view - I have renewed despiute my dissatisfaction;  opinion is polarised with supporters of both options plentiful but neither sure which has the majority.  Both camps have the same level of dedication and loyalty to the club and the thick headed minority on both sides who chose to accuse others of  disloyalty demonstrate a lack of understanding of the real issues and a small minded approach that does their own arguments no credit at all.   [/quote] If that was aimed at my initial post then, if i may be so bold, what a pointless reply. Nothing there with any relevance to my original comments. The point of my post was to point out that, contrary to what some KTF''s seem to think, it''s not just those protesting at St Andrews Hall or on Carrow Road who want rid of Worthington. An argument you''d surely agree with, so maybe not so pointless? As for all the "my 6 mates have renewed" etc posts, when did i say i hadn''t? As it happens the form went in on Friday, after having been sat, all filled in, on my mantlepiece for several weeks whilst i tried to persuade myself not to renew. Never been too good at winning arguments with myself! A letter accompanied the renewal, explaining that the main reason i''d decided to make it 23 out of 24 years as a season ticket holder was because, inspite of the drival we''ve been treated to between 3pm & 4.50pm for the past two seasons, i still enjoy the pre & post match ''socialising''. Sad that it has come to that, but it''s a fact. No deeply floored manager will ever stop me having a laugh and a drink & going to the footy with my mates, and as it happens nor will any of our equally floored ''fellow'' supporters.

1) My mate. Grew up in a non-football family so only caught the bug after he left school and got his own money 15 years ago. Since then season ticket every year and NEVER misses an away game. Still going on the away trips but is no longer actually going to the matches and has given his season ticket away until Worthington goes despite the fact that he has a 3 year one!  2) My uncle. Been going home & away since the early 70''s. You know, those days when we took 50 fans to most games? He was always one of them, despite living hundreds of miles from his home city for a large portion of that time. Was still going to the majority of away fixtures up until xmas. No longer going away, not renewed his (nor his family''s) season ticket and wasn''t at the game yesterday. The bloke invented the word passion in relation to NCFC, yet he can''t bring himself to support Worthington''s team.  3) Me, myself & i. Been going to Carra Rud for a quarter of a century. With the exception of the Chase Out season have owned a season ticket every year (ie, in the days when NCFC sold hundreds rather than thousands of ''em). Organised a bus to away games throughout the 90''s, still go when work, money & kids allow. Gave the Brighton match a miss and didn''t feel one pang of guilt (this coming from someone who would go to the most meaningless away trips just so he didn''t cripple himself with guilt whilst listening to it on the radio!). Against both Derby & Stoke i haven''t even bothered getting to my feet when we scored (unheard of, i''m a pain for the snakepit stewards normally!), i am that bored and apathetic about Worthington''s side . Really don''t care whether we win or lose at the moment and the fact i feel like that about MY club should make Worthington ashamed. I don''t like or want to feel this way however his signings, tactics, style of play and abuse of our young players have slowly, surely, sadly turned me this way. However, none of us went to the meeting on Thursday, none of us protested before the match yesterday & none of us protested afterwards either. Examples of the real "silent majority"? The club should be very worried, it''s the longest serving fans they''re alienating NOT the johnny come latelys as some have suggested.  

Baldyboy, the fact that you call the stand the "N & P" rather than the River End tells me exactly what sort of supporter you are... and its not favourable i can tell you. First season ticket within past 4 seasons by any chance? The sooner you and the other 9000-10000 of your ilk find another bandwagon to jump on (i hear North Walsham are doing rather well at the old rugger this season, hint hint) the better for all those of us that truly have football, and NCFC in particular in our blood. Oh, and as an aside, have those of you going on about the lovely, peaceful atmosphere at other sports events ever been to a big race meeting (last time i looked horse racing had a higher arrest rate than football) or a test match at Edgbaston/Headingly/Old Trafford? Try telling the local police how well everyone gets on at these occassions, they''d laugh in your face! There''s competition & conflict all the way through our lives, from the sperm fighting and racing their way towards the egg, through to school exams & sports days, job interviews/promotions, finding husbands/wifes (including steering clear of those from the wrong side of the county border!!) and finally in the race to get to either heaven or hell. That''s life, get over it mate.

Go via Cambridge on train, there''s no booking so can''t be sold out & its actually quicker to go that way as opposed to the usual Liverpool St way on Sunday anyway because of the enginering works.

What should be of slightly more concern to Neil Doncaster, and is definately something he can do something about, is the fact that last week, before the west Ham game, i was talking to a mate from work who happens to be a West Ham fan. I asked him whether he had a ticket and he replied yes, which surprised me as he never goes to Upton Park so couldn''t have been allocated an official away seat. When i asked him how he had managed to get a ticket i was even more shocked. He is mates with someone at Carrow Road apparently, and this person had got him two tickets in the New Stand knowing full well that he was a West Ham fan! Methinks some sort of enquiry is in order Mr Doncaster if your staff are pulling pranks like that.