Bernard Futter
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Posts posted by Bernard Futter
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The attribute that I most admired about Bill Shankly was his farsighted policy of buying players well before they were required for the first team.The ilk of Clemence and Keegan were no stranger to Liverpool''s reserve side until they made the step up to the big time.(Comparison with any other living person, or N. Worthington, is purely coincidental.) -
Noted elsewhere on the site that Fleming has now notched up 102 consecutive appearances.
Is there a bigger indictment to Worthington''s take on reality? -
MadDan - Francis was available at a giveaway £250k, a figure set by Wimbledon''s administrators so it was hardly a typical example to assess Worthington''s decidedly patchy transfer dealings.
Far more revealing to look at Mark Rivers - £600k wasted and not a penny coming back.
Tellingly, Rivers''s has knocked in a few goals for Crewe this season.
One presumes the player is operating in his favoured position. -
Good post Yellow Rider!
Whatever the Worthington apologists say, the man just hasn''t got the mindset to give youth a realistic chance.
Goodness knows when/if Duncan Edwards or George Best would have got a chance under this sadly one dimensional individual.
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And don''t forget to mention that the ''passings good''.
I wonder whether that is ''good'' in a sense that long standing supporters would understand in a Jimmy Hill, Tommy Bryceland, Mal Lucas, Andy Townsend and Ian Crook kind of way.
I''m afraid you can''t really expect trust in creativity and invention from one of most fervent disciples of the Howard Wilkinson school of soccer artisanship. -
To Mr Rosario
Yes and thankfully one of the more perceptive... -
You are quite correct in saying that the board will not ordinarily fire Worthington.
It is horrific to consider how much worse things must get before even a board inspired whispering campaign would get into gear.
There is of course a precedent for this - I''m sure that Hamilton was nearer to getting a contract extension rather than dismissal after those seven straight losses.
By telling it the way it is, Worthington sceptics are trying to keep the board ''honest''.
Perhaps when the groundswell of negative views becomes incessant, they will be forced to take note.
if we are all supine and ''not bothered'' then there is even less chance that they will keep all their options and I mean all, under review. -
As a Worthington sceptic from the beginning - he was instantly available and cheap - it may seem strange for me of all people to call for patience.
Four games into a season with over forty still to go is precious little time to jump to managerial conclusions.
However, I believe that the disquiet felt by many supporters is less to do with the current situation (however parlous), but more to do with the fact that there is wafer thin evidence to support the contention that the man can recognise his mistakes/shortcomings - let alone do something to rectify them.
Identified on this platform ad nauseum, the litany includes regular fall outs with players who never have an opportunity to prove themselves (Heckingbottom, Briggs), questionable signings (Rivers, Docherty), blatant favouritism (Fleming, Holt), players regularly used out of position (Brennan, Charlton) (naive tactics (defending too deep, old third division style punts up the field, eg crucially at Fulham).
I wouldn''t mind betting that if the team manage a play-off place this year, no thought will be given beforehand from the management/coaching staff as to who will take the penalties in the event of a draw aet! (Anyone - apart from XXL16 - got Darryl Sutch''s home telephone number?)
A well coached team plays better than the sum of the parts, I would suggest City may well not achieve that under N.W.''s stewardship.
If Delia and co couldn''t countenance the thought of Bryan Hamilton resigning after seven straight losses, I fear that nettles are unlikely to be grasped in this instance, irrespective of whether the situation worsens...
PS To head off the chuntering, one eyed brigade, how about Dario Gradi - now his teams always manage to play better than the sum of their parts! -
Fleming and three others.... -
I presume the ''master plan'' will also include playing the hapless, lapse-prone Fleming as first choice centre half? -
I take your point ncfc4prem re funding at that juncture but my contention is that top managers are able to impose a system that gets the very best out of the players they have available to them. Martin O’Neill’s Leicester were certainly not good to look at in my book but the team overall transcended the sum of the parts in spades, with everyone having a clearly defined role within a system which suited their often limited abilities. Allied to the fantastic belief and team spirit O’Neill instilled into them, they were always a force to reckon with and difficult to beat, even for the very top teams.
I think N.W. (and the coaching staff) could and should have done better with what was available. For one, why couldn’t Shackle have been tried earlier?
Tumbleweed - you judge astute dealers in the transfer market like goalkeepers by how few mistakes they make. I would not suggest the players you selectively mention were in any way bad signings, but there have been far too many duds such as Rivers, Briggs, Heckinbottom, Doherty, Libbra, Jonson (to date), Abbey, Emblen (latter two questionable notwithstanding injuries) to suggest that NW’s overall transfer record is at best average.
Your comments re bringing through young players are well made. One can only imagine what the Jarvis bros thought of Danny Crow being released. Hardly a signal to instil confidence in the junior ranks.
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So it''s hurrah to N.W. and let''s close off constructively debating his possible weaknesses that clearly cause anxieties even to otherwise supportive fans...
I have posted previously that Worthington probably got the job because he was on the spot, available and relatively inexpensive. It mirrors the situation with Mike Walker in his first tenure which proved that serendipity can occasionally work out exceptionally well.
What worries me fundamentally about Nigel Worthington, is that he does not appear to be capable of learning from his experiences.
Anyone who had come into manage the Club mid season would have addressed, as a first priority, the problem of the side shipping too many goals.
It may not have been pretty, but holding the opposition to 0-0 means that nicking a single goal could produce 3pts.
Despite his attack minded instincts, that''s exactly what Terry Venables did when he took over as tactical coach at Middlesborough when they were in terminal danger of relegation a few years ago.
Our manager neither played the right players (especially persisting with the lapse prone Fleming) nor got the defence playing as a cohesive unit (eg the side were defending too deep as long ago as the play offs).
Given NW was an ex defender, makes this all the more surprising.
As a defensive unit, City looked every bit as wide-eyed and naive at the end of the season, as at the beginning.
Survival always was a big ask, but if N.W. had been able to think on his feet and be prepared to amend his rigid thinking according to circumstances, I for one am sure that it would have made the vital difference by seasons end.
Can he change?
I have big doubts.
Rush suffered a severe knee injury which all but finished his career in I think his first game and you''ll find Moore, Hulse and Lee were each in the £850k-£1million bracket -
Much has been made of Nigel Worthington''s decidedly patchy record on completed transfer deals, but even this pales into insignificance when you look at the list of players he tried hard and (thankfully) failed to sign.Step forward Ian Moore, Rob Hulse, Alan Lee and Gareth Taylor, all forwards Worthington considered shelling out large sums of money on (for City) who have all struggled to make much impact at their new clubs.Clearly the manager may have had a cunning plan to better integrate them into City''s game plan, but given his tactical nous, I somehow doubt it! Trading in the transfer market will always be a speculative business but in the recent past the Club enjoyed a fantastic record of unearthing reasonably priced talent and for every Dean Coney, there were six or more Ian Crook''s. (Now it''s the other way around and we seem especially well stocked with ''Dean Coney''s'') As a further measure, it''s also illuminating to contrast the transfer income then with the money Worthington signings have generated when they''ve been moved on... -
Due to advancing decrepitude I get to few games these days but I did manage Fulham on Sunday.
I am someone who thought Nigel Worthington lucked into the job through being on the spot, inexpensive and available.
His tactical naievity (defending so deep is just one example), loyalty to undeserving players (did Holt ever manage to find a yellow shirt in all his time on the pitch?) and terrible transfer record (Mark Rivers/Gary Doherty, where do we stop?) has been well and regularly documented on this site.
What absolutely staggered me on Sunday however was the TOTAL reliance throughout the game on ''hit and hope'' lofted passes to the front two. Dean Ashton impressed me greatly with his two footedness, industry and heading prowess but he was directly opposed by a considerably taller opponent (Knight) who, despite his best efforts, all but negated this aspect of his game. It was old third division stuff and when I half closed my eyes I could almost see poor old Iwan Roberts in the days when he was left to plough a lone furrow up front. Not a tactic to get the best out of a talented all-rounder with massive potential and certainly not Leon McKenzie with his improved but still questionable first touch.
Passing game? Do me a favour! And of course our tactical genius was unable to change the approach when it clearly wasn''t working, even at half time.
Contrast this with in my book a pretty average Fulham side who passed to feet, were comfortable keeping possession and crucially, always looked like scoring!
And before any Worthington apologists point out that Dean Ashton was signed by him. My reply is with his goal scoring record he wasn''t too much of a gamble and further, he should have insisted to the board that such a player was required pre-season, not when the game was almost up. It certainly doesn''t mitigate against the mans dreadful record in the transfer market.
I guess Nigel Worthington deserves another crack next season but if he hasn''t learned anything from his experiences by Xmas, I hope the board will grasp the nettle and look for someone who really can take the Club on. If it was down to Ms Smith, I''m sure we''d still have the ''unfairly hounded from office'' Bryan Hamilton in charge, so the portents aren''t encouraging! -
Our captain''s serial lapses have been well documented all season culminating in yet another goal on his debit account last Saturday when he was unable to even get himself into a position to mount an aerial challenge to the opposition''s compact midfielder, who took emphatic advantage of course.
When I played, at it must be admitted a not too distinguished level (the Croydon Sunday League), I knew and I thought every footballer instinctively knows when they have played a poor game. It is certainly not necessary to be told.
I''m sure that Craig Fleming is fully committed to the cause and really has the best interests of the Club at heart, but I would suggest that he really should by now have realised that he has been a liability this season and insisted on being rested.
With a spirited run in hopefully on the cards, surely the man has done enough damage already and can''t be risked further?
But then if the manager with his Quixotic player favouritism could see what everyone else can, it wouldn''t be necessary...
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At the time Ferguson regarded City as United''s bogy team. There can''t be too many other sides (if any) who achieved the double over United in three consecutive seasons as City did. -
"In keeping with his Alice in Wonderland view of matters, Worthington implied that defending was not generally a problem for his side, as if the goals against column of the Premiership Table was a statistical abnormality".This was part of the match report in today''s Guardian which will make chastening reading for anyone still maintaining survival hopes. I have made comments before on Worthington''s tactical naivety, especially regarding defensive formations with a back four traditionally defending deeper than any other team and almost inviting strikes in the danger area. It also means that City don''t often benefit by catching rival forwards offside. (Now even more crucial as referees apparently have their own ''daylight'' rather than ''beyond level'' rule as per Andy Cole''s seemingly legitimate strike at Carrow Road.)To have the best defence you don''t have to have the best players - just a system that everyone understands and can carry out within their capabilities.Despite his defender''s heritage, I don''t believe that Worthington (and the current coaching staff) are capable of sorting the problem out in the time available. Time perhaps to swallow pride and get in a defensive coach for the rest of the season such as Venables (saved Boro a few seasons ago in similar circumstances), or why not make an audacious attempt to get Hansen or Lawrenson? -
Can''t help thinking that a lack of foresight was shown by the Club when Mark Rivers was shown the door with indecent haste when he could have been a valuable bargaining counter in making a deal for admitted long time target Ashton more feasible. -
The passing of Bernard Robinson reminded me of one of the less endearing things my father did for me - naming me after the ex Canary wing half. (I''ve always hated the name for itself not for the association.) Presumably I''m far from the only one out there? A Ronald Tudor (Davies) or two perhaps? -
Good player he may have been, but I do wish my late father had''t have named me after him.... -
Leaving aside the current crop of signings, for which the jury in many cases is still out, has anyone noticed what exceedingly poor value on a games played/investment basis the majority of Nigel Worthington''s earlier ''money'' signings have been?
The list reads:-
Abbey £350k
Emblen £500k
Rivers £575k
Easton £100k
Nielsen £400k
Heckinbottom £100k
Briggs £65k
On top of this, Libbra would have cost £500k if the French FA hadn''t intervened and allowed him to move on a free.
Add that lot together (even excluding the anticipated fee for Libbra) and the total still comes to nearly £2.2million!
Whichever way you look at it, that''s an awful lot of money for a then financially struggling club, especially taking in to account the zero amount that has apparently come back in sales.
Whilst it must be admitted that Abbey and Emblen were blighted by injuries, they didn''t exactly impress when they had their opportunities.
Drury and Francis would seem to be the only conspicuous successes from this intake. (Holt we should properly ascribe to the previous regime.)
Of course another element outside the strict footballing/financial equation is the fact that NW would appear to have fallen out with a goodly number on this list.
No manager, however astute in the transfer market, can get it right every time but I would suggest that this is a record that is at best, pretty indifferent.
Let''s hope the more recent signings go on to belie this trend. -
You may want to remember that the failure to sign an experienced keeper when Bryan Gunn was badly injured mid season at Nottm Forest and the management persisted with a promising but unproven young substitute (A. Marshall), was probably the most telling factor in that season''s ultimate relegation. -
Laurie Sheffield actually scored a hat-trick on his Norwich debut, I seem to remember in a 4-1 victory against Derby.
He was an old fashioned scrapper no 9 and an awkward customer for any defender to cope with and like Iwan Roberts, always gave his all to the cause.
It was Gerry Howshall who was purchased with Supporters Club cash. -
As has been stated, Mike Walker inherited the nucleus of a good side. What he himself brought to the party was tactical nous with the team playing an audacious counter attacking game with Ian Crook the orchestrator able to accurately hit speedy front men Chris Sutton, Efan Ekoku, Mark Robins and Ruel Fox with pin point long balls. It was a system which clearly disconcerted most of the teams in the top league - straight out of the box. It suited the players he had available perfectly, left little room for error and in less accomplished hands could have have lapsed into near route one! The 0-4 win at Elland Road was one of the finest examples, with Leeds players not remotely able to cope with the system. Eventually the opposition would have negated the style and then we would have seen just how good a tactician M.W. really was.
The pity of Mike Walker''s second spell was that the forward players then at his disposal were not technically gifted enough to follow the plot and Ian Crook''s magical powers had waned somewhat. I had always understood that the reason for his dismissal second time around was the Club''s poor disciplinary record, hence the move for Sgt Major Rioch the man who had been fired from four out of his five previous managerial jobs as I pointed out at the time. (Doubtless he forgot to bring his CV along when the board interviewed him.) I for one think the first Walker period was a refreshing time on the field for the Club and his sacking (if the above was to be believed and we''ll probably never know) was reprehensible and ushered in two clueless regimes and years more misery for dedicated City fans...
WILL WORTHY WALK TONIGHT????
in Main Discussion - Norwich City
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And if seven consecutive defeats wasn''t enough to get the board to move against Bryan Hamilton, we can''t expect any intervention from that direction either.