Parma Ham's gone mouldy

In bocca al lupo 🦮 tutti i voi belli pupetti 🦮😍👌🎶….….not tons and tons that fit the algorithm this week, so we’re going to have to stretch a bit…✌️✌️💪🏼..thank you to you all 🙏🏼 Thank you particularly to @nutty nigel for providing us with such a wonderful, worthwhile platform to do good. Times are tough for pretty much everyone and it is strange - when people have less they want to give more. My mum was a VP for Save the Children and always wanted to go to the less well off parts of town, because people were kinder and gave more. Nutella I’ll send you a pony and we can triple the return on this ✌️👌🦮🦮❤️ Here is the six: Man City W vs Everton W - Home win 🏡🏆 Caernarfon vs TNS - Away win 🏆 Salzburg vs Austria Lustenau - Home win 🏡🏆 ( thanks @dj11 🙏🏼) Benfica vs Portimonense - Home win 🏡🏆 (thanks @TIL 1010) MFK Ruzomberok W vs Dukla Banska Bystrica W - Home win 🏡🏆 Lincoln Red Imps vs Mons Calpe - Home win 🏡🏆 As for @Mr Apples Norwich bet, let’s have a poke at a value Quadcast: BTTS, Norwich to win, more than 2.5 goals, more than 5 corners, less than 6 yellow cards. Parma

Buonasera you lovely Pups, deep apologies for lack of interaction, Screen fell out of my private phone and spent much of this week at the phone doctors, only to be sadly read the last rites (last bytes?)…. …..have dug an old iPhone out of the office and filled it immediately full of unnecessary crap which has made me feel a whole lot better obvs 👍🦮🦮…❤️😍🦮 Will now get to work a sortin’ and a siftin’ through all your lovely picks…let’s see if we can bring this home 🏡…😍🦮😂👌 Parma

In bocca al lupo 🦮 @KiwiScot…ed ai tutti i voi belli Pupetti 🦮💪🏽🥰💃🔥…a super kind and generous pup 👍🤗👌👌👌 A trip to my beloved Deutschland this week for: Nurnberg W vs Wolfsburg W - Away win 💪🏽🏆 As for cugino @Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man’s Norwich bet..let’s a wild quadcast for: BTTS no, Norwich to win, more than 2.5 goals, Van Hooijdonk to score 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽🥰🥳🥳🥳 Parma

This has been a much better thread to discuss the happenings of Tuesday than other more emotional threads on here, I'm just sorry I haven't got to it until now. This point particularly resonates. Yes, the EFL are taking more than enough time to formally confirm Attanasio's share allotment et al, but you cannot help wondering whether he is waiting for a "big club crisis" before the above happens. Others have pondered on Wagner potentially being a "lucky" manager as well as a streaky one. Perhaps Attanasio has felt close to making the above move (especially after Blackburn), but then that darned bloke got lucky again! All to play for. Just taking longer than most would like. In my world (now) investors, new CEO, new shareholders, funds and oligarchic figures love to create lines in the sand, delineation from what has gone before, a new benchmarking of a new zero point. You can understand it from commercial, ego, calculatory, bonus pot-ery standpoints. Putting new money into old problems, that get swallowed without obvious change, recognition, thanks or effect is unattractive on multiple levels. ‘I want any investment I make to clearly reflect well on me and not be claimed-muddied-confused with what went on yesterday’ would be a common thread. The ‘holding pattern’ - financially-sportingly-operationally - that Webber left behind and Wagner inherited (which indeed went against much good that had gone before) was also a transitional firebreak on a higher corporate level. Knapper doing nothing much for a bit - including this January window - also fits this logic and narrative. Who better than Wagner right now? Or even - if we’re honest - when we were looking pretty poor in November? If the old guard holding pattern somehow succeeds via the playoffs then you call some SSG friends, share some equity, get a cash injection and have some fun. Fans will feel that its Christmas. If it doesn’t, you ship out a huge number of players, dump the manager (which you are actually going to do whatever happens), take your data analytics out for a spin, test Knapper’s London Academies contacts book and - in either case - you have drawn a notable corporate line in the sand that ‘this is my regime’ . Judge me from here, This is the benchmark day zero. Which is what you wanted all along. Parma

I suspect the answer to that is a surprising - perhaps rather non-Norwich - one. I think in that scenario a swift acceleration of all corporate planning would occur, with Attanasio openly taking the reins, some SSG glitterati taking further minority (though notable) share investments, plus a raft of new players from a secret dossier in a locked drawer in Knapper’s office. Oh and Wagner wouldn’t be there regardless. Knapper would dust off the premium list of phone numbers and some American dollars would see some decent names start answering the calls. The problems of success are always to be welcomed. Parma

Yes agreed. It’s a mistake on multiple levels. The bigger question - as with the sacking of Farke or the selling of Buendia - is why it was made. By whom. By what collective reasoning (or not). What are the personal motivations, the economic drivers, the benefits and drawbacks? You can - and must - draw a ledger from all of these points and calculate your plusvalenza. Your ‘net, net, net’. Your deep-seated psychological tendencies have a habit of finding you out under moments of high stress. You can hide, camouflage, obscure or deny them most of the time. Stress can be good or bad. Highs or lows in effect. I wonder if Wagner’s form of contrary schoolteacheryness ‘my way or the highway’ lends itself to streaks? Whether you actually get found out a bit quicker in your mother tongue (‘it’s hard to be a prophet in your own land’ might be a good phrase)? He has played such a ‘siege mentality card’ here that it smacks of a quite short term ploy. I suppose he has only to the end of the season whatever, so he is using things to create tighter and tighter harmony via ‘us against the world’ internal strategies with the players? Parma

All excellent contributions @king canary @Robert N. LiM @Mason 47 …I’d go with all of that … …in answer to your question @Morph I refer the honorable gentlemen to the apocryphal Irish joke of the lost Englishman asking for directions to somewhere or other from a local …. ’’….eeeee….iiiii……well now……..I wouldn’t start from here……’ Parma

Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,136 Posted 2 minutes ago An odd game. I said to my brother before the game that it many ways it was the kind of game that could allow Wagner to present ‘Exhibit A’ in defense of his style and methodology. Powerful, dynamical, athletic Prem-lite teams like Watford - with certainly pockets of top level quality and know-how - were often the bete-noire for Farke teams. Should Wagner be able to demonstrate that we have developed a physicality, a resilience, a press and counter-press that upsets such sides, negates their approach and which still allows us to have good moments, then that would be a clear statement and a definable direction of travel. I think we saw quite a lot of that. I think we were better. I think we deserved to win. Though he can’t help himself but be a bit of a contrarian. A bit of a school teacher fiddler and tinkerer. I suppose you might make a (weak) case that that sounds a bit like Guardiola too. I’m afraid Wagner is a long way from that. I can increasingly see what he is asking the players to do and why. Though I am continually left with the feeling ‘why do it that way?’ …’why create your own structural problems to then be forced to solve them in contorted ways that require somewhat unnatural behaviors from the players? Why be forced to over-complicate to correct such an extent because of something that is flawed in the very set up of the way you want to play? The concept of machine-like pressing out of possession and Litmanen-cool with the ball is not new. It is a utopia rather than an apotheosis. The staggering errors by MacClean and Barnes should have brought two goals against us. I must attribute both to the fact that those two players epitomize what Wagner does want. Farke would gleefully point out that that is your coaching trade-off. Pretending you can have it all is fool’s gold. They get physically tired and then they get mentally tired. Both errors were simple 5-10 yard passes under no pressure in a key defensive area of the pitch. There was absolutely no need to worry about the passes, they were both quite safe and sensible choices. ‘Messing around at the back’ or ‘across your own box’ is outdated nonsense. A 5 yard push pass is as simple a technique as it is possible to have in football. Easy. No risk. Play it every time. But they both made horrible technical, tactical and strategic errors in single passes. Responsible, diligent, fit, hard-working senior professionals. Exactly the types Wagner wants to make his system work. Sorry David. There is a compromise. Nevertheless you could certainly argue that we looked superior because of the press. That it laid the foundation and wore them down, disrupted their fluency, disrupted their intended patterns. Personally I thought that they looked surprisingly passive, short of confidence and momentum from almost the first minute. They were a pale, timid shadow of previous iterations of Watford sides in recent years. This brings us to the booed substitutions. Like it or not striker Sargent and wide attacker Onel, for solid midfielder Fassnacht and deeper-lying Nunez, is very much a lurch to the defensive. I am not sure that I saw anything in the Watford side to justify such a large net switch to defensive. Except of course if you are recognizing that as Barnes and Sargent get tired, opposition players start to run past them - and in Watford’s case they started to let their left-sided Centre back roam and Lewis go higher and often tuck into an inside midfield role - which only serves to highlight the structural flaw in our set up from the outset: our key central midfield areas are too often vacated and exposed. It is a product of the initial set up, personnel and instructions. Wagner really is a bit of a contrarian. Then he turns on the fans. Why? At perhaps his highest point - great win, his system had merits, a game in previous years that would have shown up the compromises ‘of the other way’ - in contrarian fashion he then immediately burns up the goodwill he’d worked so hard to earn? Odd indeed. Why? Perhaps he is a bit school-teachery. Perhaps deep-down he doesn’t feel he commands full football respect, perhaps he doesn’t inherently feel like ‘one of us’ in football terms? So he tinkers. He holds players back. Leaves them out of the side. Makes them wait. Uses ‘injuries’ to get them begging. Uses erratic, random, changing team selections and pairings to keep them on their toes. To make them act in contorted ways on the pitch. To engender an authority that deep down he doesn’t really feel that he has? Parma Edited just now by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

An odd game. I said to my brother before the game that it many ways it was the kind of game that could allow Wagner to present ‘Exhibit A’ in defense of his style and methodology. Powerful, dynamical, athletic Prem-lite teams like Watford - with certainly pockets of top level quality and know-how - were often the bete-noire for Farke teams. Should Wagner be able to demonstrate that we have developed a physicality, a resilience, a press and counter-press that upsets such sides, negates their approach and which still allows us to have good moments, then that would be a clear statement and a definable direction of travel. I think we saw quite a lot of that. I think we were better. I think we deserved to win. Though he can’t help himself but be a bit of a contrarian. A bit of a school teacher fiddler and tinkerer. I suppose you might make a (weak) case that that sounds a bit like Guardiola too. I’m afraid Wagner is a long way from that. I can increasingly see what he is asking the players to do and why. Though I am continually left with the feeling ‘why do it that way?’ …’why create your own structural problems to then be forced to solve them in contorted ways that require somewhat unnatural behaviors from the players? Why be forced to over-complicate to correct such an extent because of something that is flawed in the very set up of the way you want to play? The concept of machine-like pressing out of possession and Litmanen-cool with the ball is not new. It is a utopia rather than an apotheosis. The staggering errors by MacClean and Barnes should have brought two goals against us. I must attribute both to the fact that those two players epitomize what Wagner does want. Farke would gleefully point out that that is your coaching trade-off. Pretending you can have it all is fool’s gold. They get physically tired and then they get mentally tired. Both errors were simple 5-10 yars passes under no pressure in a key defensive area of the pitch. There was absolutely no need to worry about the passes, they were both quite safe and sensible choices. ‘Messing around at the back’ or ‘across your own box’ is outdated nonsense. A 5 yard push pass is as simple a technique as it is possible to have in football. Easy. No risk. Play it every time. But they both made horrible technical, tactical and strategic errors in single passes. Responsible, diligent, fit, hard-working senior professionals. Exactly the types Wagner wants to make his system work. Sorry David. There is a compromise. Nevertheless you certainly argue that we looked superior because of the press. That it laid the foundation and wore them down, disrupted their fluency, disrupted their intended patterns. Personally I thought that they looked surprisingly passive, short of confidence and momentum from almost the first minute. They were a pale, timid shadow of previous iterations of Watford sides in recent years. This brings us to the booed substitutions. Like it or not striker Sargent and wide attacker Onel, for solid midfielder Fassnacht and deeper-lying Nunez, is very much a lurch to the defensive. I am not sure that I saw anything in the Watford side to justify such a large net switch to defensive. Except of course if you are recognizing that as Barnes and Sargent get tired, opposition players start to run past them - and in Watford’s case they started to let their left-sided Centre back roam and Lewis go higher and often tuck into an inside midfield role - which only serves to highlight the structural flaw in our set up from the outset: our key central midfield areas are too often vacated and exposed. It is a product of the initial set up, personnel and instructions. Wagner really is a bit of a contrarian. Then he turns on the fans. Why? At perhaps his highest point - great win, his system had merits, a game in previous years that would have shown up the compromises ‘of the other way’ - in contrarian fashion he then immediately burns up the goodwill he’d worked so hard to earn? Odd indeed. Why? Perhaps he is a bit school-teachery. Perhaps deep-down he doesn’t feel he commands full football respect, perhaps he doesn’t inherently feel like ‘one of us’ in football terms? So he tinkers. He holds players back. Leaves them out of the side. Makes them wait. Uses ‘injuries’ to get them begging. Uses erratic, random, changing team selections and pairings to keep them on their toes. To make them act in contorted ways on the pitch. To engender an authority that deep down he doesn’t really feel that he has? Parma

In bocca al lupo 🦮 Lupo!…🐺…🤩😂..ed hai tutti i voi belli PUPetti 🦮🔥💪🏽 I’m travelling in la bell’Italia 🇮🇹 this week - though I don’t think I’ll have time to get to watch the excellent Roma: Napoli W vs Roma W - Away win 🏆 As for Indy’s Norwich bet, I think there is certainly value in a quadcast this week: BTTS, more than 2.5 goals, Norwich to win, more than 5 corners, less than 5 yellow cards. I think Van Hooijdonk to score last night be a nice romantic side bet too 🤗 Parma

Bravissimo Sig Arrabbiata 🔥🔥🔥💪🏽 Parma

Indeed. In the modern world you read, find, consume precisely the news you look for. As the very wise William James said of us all: ’…by and large people become what they think about themselves’ Be careful what you allow into your body and mind. You are the product. It’s a battle for eyeballs. Parma

No need to YouTube that. I can see it in my mind 👌 Parma

Bit of technical detail for those who are interested. The technique that Van Hooijdonk uses for feee kicks is different to Sara and Nunez. They are both good strikers of the ball, though you might (oddly) hear sometimes that a free kick is ‘too close’. When you strike a ball with power, drive and late dip, an optimum distance might be around 25 yards out plus. This suits Sara and Nunez well. Van Hooijdonk has a nice flippy-clippy-whippy technique (thank you, I know) that is very well suited to those free kicks right on the edge of the box which require a different strike pattern and flight shape. I can think of very few players at all who could do both (though some try the wrong technique repeatedly from the ‘other’ spot) Very useful to us to have both on the pitch. A nice skill to have. Parma

In bocca al lupo 🦮 Signor Arrabbiata 😡…🤩🔥…ed ai tutti i voi belli Pupetti 🦮💪🏽🔥 i was thinking this week that my favourite footballer in the world at the moment is Lauren James. I love the way she strikes a ball. She has the ability to make difficult techniques look easy. I think Chelsea will win at Everton, though I just love Barca - and Aitar Bonmati is pretty special too - so: Barca vs Sporting de Huelva - Home win 🏡🏆 As for the Norwich bet, seems a lovely opportunity for: Sydney Van Hooijdonk last goal… 🤩…well bit of romance never hurt anyone 🤗😂❤️🔥 Parma

Takes Penalties and free kicks. Good basic weapons. Parma

Because they are illiquid they could also create a deal with Attanasio that he invests the equivalent of the currently-unrealised equity gain. This really is a free hit for Attanasio and a great gift by Delia and Michael. Particularly as it would look to the outside world as if Attanasio was putting the money in (which he technically would be…but…) Obliging buyers with what they must do next is fraught with legal ‘what if’ complications and likely not close to watertight however. The triggers would have to be specific and Attanasio will certainly have caveat clauses in not-even-really-force-majeure scenarios. Awkward. Irresolvable possibly. Then ‘…..listen…time passes……’ as Dylan rightly says. Attanasio would then make them life presidents, rename the City Stand in their honor and festoon them with praise…though would also naturally look like the second coming of Abramovich in a Norwich context…. The Cat C shares look a genuine cash injection, the rest a re-financing (though with all lever roads leading to Attanasio)… …so I would suggest the club must ‘fail further’ in a sporting sense and require ongoing - otherwise unavailable - liquidity for Delia and Michael to effectively cede-dilute-sell their shareholding over time (and according to ‘club need’).. This drip-drip-drip process looks like the flow of the river currently and is not as glorious an ending as it should be for Delia and Michael. They haven’t been able to race the Ferrari. They haven’t really been able to put any petrol in it without Murdoch’s help (who they trotsdem romantically lament). Now it is rusting, needs expensive servicing and they can’t even keep it statically on the drive and sit in it happily anymore. Parma

Nice @GMF…nailed a good few there 💪🏽💪🏽☝🏼 Parma

Attanasio is liquid and Delia isn’t. Delia has (only) an equity gain to throw in the pot and Attanasio can put petrol in the Ferrari to keep it somewhere in the race. The sporting level has and is dropping rapidly. ‘Relying on moments rather than process’ as others have it. Attanasio ‘liquifies’ Delia’s equity gain, puts it back into the club and claims the reflected glory, success may occur, if it doesn’t he will be sure he can offload to others on the SSG or similar. In the meantime he refinances via others and gets a brokerage cut and interest if he’s genuinely underwriting any of it. The C cat shares look like the table stakes buy in. It may work out. We may win against the odds. The asset may be held for the medium term provided there is enough positive plusvalenza trading, Murdoch money or further ‘Australian’ investment. Delia is disillusioned because it wasn’t meant to be this way Parma

In bocca al lupo 🦮… @dj11 ..ed ai tutti i voi belli Pupetti 🥰🦮🤩 I think if you’re looking for multiple likes DJ there are 3 good games that stand out: Roma W vs Sampdoria W - Home win 🏡🏆 Real Betis W vs Barca W - Away win (selected) 🏡🏆 and CSKA Sofia vs Botev Vratsa - Home win 🏡🏆 As for the super sharp GMF, well a classic English story of so-near-and-yet-so-far plucky losers looks likely vs their reserve side. Maybe we’ll get a sympathy goal and do ok: BTTS, Norwich to score, more than 2.5 goals, less than 5 yellow cards. Parma

The Covid enquiry is currently featuring high in news reports - though of course much of it focuses on private WhatsApp messages slandering whoever, salaciousness or backstabbing for point-scoring reasons - it is worth noting that its very purpose is to identify why decisions were made. What truly influenced the decisions taken, why, according to what criteria, under what form of influence? What was planned, what was reactive, what was based on personal weaknesses, manipulation by others, actors with loaded agenda? Indeed. Parma

This is perfectly normal and to be expected. When one is in a different country - though speaking in English with a non-native English speaker - it is a form of bonding, politeness and natural psychological desire to mimic and ‘soothe’ the questioner via finding a ‘halfway house’ English tone that somewhat mirrors the way the questioner speaks . It is a form of kindness in effect. That it is ridiculed by the ignorant - who may well not be able to speak any other language themselves (Dier speak 3 languages fluently) - says a great deal more about them than it does about Dier (or Steve MacLaren). Parma

Well done. This is what might well happen. Delia and Michael might also be so altruistic as to not ‘show their hand’ though it would an incredible legacy gesture and befitting of wide public acclaim. However they might have to be reticent about it as it’s not a fabulous look for Attanasio is it? This is where the realpolitik plays out. Parma

Mr Right Now. Is that the way to make such a monumentous decision? Parma

I wouldn’t express it if I didn’t have some idea. Parma