Mcveigh and starting line up for sunday dont mix!!!!

[Mcveigh and starting line up for sunday dont mix!!!!]

Fleming at left back? The anti-worthy crusaders would have a field-day.

It''s a tough call for NW on Sunday though. If we win, he''s right, if we lose, he''s wrong. I wouldn''t want to be doing his job!

[Ashton staying perhaps...............]

Paul... are you trying to be the new 1st Waz? You are becoming a parody of yourself. Have you not been saying the same thing: "no Ashton, no promotion" recently? So when Worthy comes out and says it, you call him an idiot. The guy can''t win can he?

You also keep on and on about being a team of cloggers. Can you explain what you mean by this, and which players you''re referring to? Do you really think that players like Green, Drury, Safri, McVeigh, Huckerby, Ashton are cloggers? If they are, why are several of them so regularly linked with big money moves to the Prem? And why is it that we keep getting accused of not being physical enough for this league. Would you prefer a manager like Warnock, with a Sheff Utd style of play?

I''d say the bigger problem is that recent success has turned a number of the fans into Little Britain Wolves-Like fans.

[For the Worthington supporters]

[quote user="Andy OTBC"]

Personally, I do not understand how anyone could think that Worthington is a good manager but I would love to understand. Are Worthy supporters happy with the way the team is run and the performances, or are they unhappy but still want to keep the manager?

 

Therefore, without just saying I am fickle, disloyal or have a short memory, could you please answer the following questions and maybe give some specific qualities that you think makes Worthington a good manager.

 

1. Do you think that the managers signings this season have been successful?

 

2. Are you happy with the fact that we still have no right midfielder at the club?

 

3. Are you happy for Norwich City, a club associated with playing nice football, to continue playing route one, long ball football in the majority of games?

 

4. Do you think that Ashton is being used effectively by just sending the ball long and rarely giving him the ball at his feet (he is not Iwan Roberts), given that he scored more goals for Crewe, a side who are worse than us but who do play football on the ground?

 

5. In the premiership, were you happy with his team selection? e.g Holt over Safri (anyone who mentions injuries - Safri was on the bench for 2 months before he finally replaced Holt) or Doherty being picked as a striker(!) ahead of McKenzie.

 

6. What would be an acceptable final league position this season?

 

7. Will you still think that Worthington is the right manager for us if we finish mid-table for the next 5 years?

 [/quote]

 

Good job you don''t decide who is manager of the month then. Or indeed who is manager of our club. To answer your questions:

 

1. This seasons signings have largely not been successful.

2. I would love to see a good right-sided player come to the club.

3. I disagree that we play mostly route one football. I think the players play as much good football as they are capable of. How many good footballing sides have you seen at CR this season? I though the general view was that most had been pretty poor, with Preston the best so far...

4. Many of Ashton''s goals have gome from crosses. Do these count as ''in the air'' or ''on the ground''?

5. I was happy that a fit Holt was picked ahead of an injured Safri. Doherty played as a striker for Spurs as I recall, or Eire, one of the two. Did everything work out in the Prem? Clearly not. Do these few little things make the difference between staying up and going down? Probably not. Is it worth raking over these old coals AGAIN? Definately not.

6. Define ''acceptable''. It rather depends on how big a picture you look at. Given the number of clubs that have come out of the Prem and then fallen apart (i.e. most), anything better than that is doing quite well. There is always the hope that we will finish in the top 6, but I have no expectations. Anyone who has expectations in relation to sport isn''t taking into account basic sports psychology.

7. No. We have the resources, and as much chance as anyone in this division to get promotion. But this is sport, not simply business. We are not just shareholders calling for the CEO to be sacked because the share price has taken a tumble.

 

Anyway, this is all avoiding the real question you are asking: should Worthy go. The corollary to this has to be ''who could do better?''. Seriously, from this point forwards, who has the greater chance of getting us promoted...? Worthy or some other (failed elsewhere) manager? And next season? Going on track record, it''s still Worthy. I''d give him until the end of next season because even if a new manager comes in he would then have to rebuild the squad. And that takes time (even for someone like Harry).

 

[Who reckons whether either of etuhu or Andy Hughes will be a first choice Central midfielder come the start of next year?]

Would you have said that about Doc at the start of this season? About Fleming at the start of December? About Iwan at the start of 97/98?

We just don''t know why some players take time to settle, others work straight away.

 

[The result swingometer]

[quote user="Paul Rankin"]Amarillo rate each of worthys signings this season out of 10 for me  - for how you think they have done so far - dont hold back mate.[/quote]

Paul... my point isn''t that everything is fine and dandy. Clearly we would like to be near or at the top of the league. Many people think that with our squad we really ''should'' be. But there''s my point: how can anyone say ''should be at the top with this squad (which Worthy signed)'' and ''this squad is rubbish (which Worthy signed)''. And if we want to have players like Ashton, Hux, Green, Drury who are going to take a huge slice of the wage bill, then we''re going to have a smaller squad. It''s like saying ''if we sell Ashton we can buy several players to replace him''. EXACTLY. He costs the same as several lesser players. Like it or not, we can have either quality or quantity, but not both, it''s simple maths.

I don''t think the players we have signed are Premiership quality. I don''t even think that they''re the best players in this division. But I would challenge you to find a top class midfielder for 500k, or probably more to the point, one who will sign for a few grand per week. If it were easy to do, plenty of big clubs (in this division) would be queuing up to sign him.

I really hate the way some posters think that there are easy solutions. If there really were, don''t you think that 23 other managers would also be adopting them? EVERY club has fans complaining about injuries, small squads, playing players out of position (as a result of the former two things), signings that didn''t work out and so on. And ok, we''re entitled to moan, but it annoys me when the vitriol reaches the proportions it has.

Finally: look at is this way: some people think the club ''has gone backwards'' under Worthy. Well, ok...

If that''s true, if we have a lesser squad than we did under Hamilton, then we''re over-achieving this season aren''t we?

If it''s not, if we have a better squad, then the club has moved forward. Just being in the position of having several top players that other clubs want, that we don''t want to sell, and that we don''t have to sell is a first in the past decade....

[I'm not Worthington's biggest fan but is it really his fault if Ashton goes.]

[quote user="Paul Rankin"]

Not one decent player has come in since relegation. (perhaps with the exception of davenport)

[/quote]

Did I miss something? Is relegation usually seen as the ideal time to start buying all those Premiership players that we couldn''t afford or entice in the Premiership? Is the parachute payment bigger than the Prem pay cheque?

I would like to see the very best players at Norwich too, but we''re in the Championship. Who of any real quality can we sign for £450k and, I dunno, £5k per week? Because if there is a Scott Parker or someone out there for that money I''m sure Worthy will be right there in the queue.

 

[Malky Mackay]

[quote user="Matt Hudson"]

He scored against the scum, he scored anoother one. 18 months after leaving he is a regular in one of the best defences in the league. Doherty was crap last year, shackall and doc were inexperienced and fleming wasnt big enough, so why did we sell him. Another reason to sack the manager.

[/quote]

Exactly. Look at West Ham, they''re doing okay in the Prem. But then they have a decent manager who wasn''t stupid enough to ditch Malky on promotion to the Prem. I''ll welcome him back on Saturday for sure.

[The result swingometer]

[quote user="premier1"]You dont even need to be clever to know Worthingtons a poor manager it sticks out a mile Dicky .[/quote]

Fair enough. I mean, Worthy hasn''t even come close to getting promotion* with Norwich has he?

* since many of the ''new'' fans started going to games in 2004/05.

[No More Money Available For Transfers!!!!]

Every transfer window. Here we go again. Here''s some number crunching for you:

Can I buy your car? What do you want for it (by the way, I have 20 grand sitting in a bank account). So go on, how much do you want for it?

Or how about this. I have £100. I spend £40 on a night out. I spend £40 on a new shirt and £10 on some new socks. I make a payment of £10 on a new jacket and promise to pay the rest off when I get paid again. Do I still have £100? Why not, can anybody explain this nonsense?

Next week I get £25. £10 of that goes towards the jacket, the other £15 on another night out. Do I still have £25? Why not, can anybody explain this nonsense.

Bottom line is this: if you really believe the club are fiddling the accounts and syphoning off the money (and the accounts are public, I''ve got a copy of last year''s) then you need to file some sort of formal complaint.

How many clubs come down from the Prem and practically go broke? Norwich come down and don''t have to sell, but don''t have much money to buy with either. Do the club get praised for not putting us in the position where we have to sell? Nope. Because the glass-half-empty little Norwichers on this board think the moon really is made of cheese and the manager should be sacked for not taking us there.

We DO have financial clout. That''s how we can afford to have a striker, winger, goalkeeper that most other clubs in this division could not afford to have and would give their right arm for.

[Young Rossi Jarvis signs!]

Boo! How can we let another young talent like that sign for another club?! Boo! Worthy out! Sack the Board!

What? Oh. Well Worthy should go anyway. He clearly doesn''t want Jarvis at the club. And he''ll only destroy him. And not play him. And play him out of position. And play him when he isn''t ready. And substitute him. And never drop him. And never start him when he is clearly already the most talented footballer at the club. And anyway, he''s paid too much for him. And Worthy has never made a decent signing in his life, so Rossi must be no good. So we don''t want him on the pitch. And we don''t want him on the bench. And we don''t want him to leave. And yes but no but yes but.

[Looks like Dean Ashton on his way then :-(]

[quote user="Paul Rankin"]

I think the below link confirms Ashton is leaving,. 2 million bid for Cameron Jerome.  we are trying to buy before we sell so we dont get ripped off.

http://www.en24.co.uk/content/sport/story.aspx?brand=ENOnline&category=Sport&tBrand=ENOnline&tCategory=sport&itemid=NOED04%20Jan%202006%2010%3A49%3A48%3A717

[/quote]

Paul... I know you''re keen to bash Worthy at every turn, but please point me to exactly where it says a) we''ve made a bid and b) what the price was? Because the way I read it, that was a comment made by Dave Jones in response to a query from another club and has nothing to do with Norwich. It''s about as accurate as the "reported" £2m bid for Morrison.

But don''t let the absence of any facts get in the way of dissing the club.

Oh and for the others - If Worthy has ''destroyed'' Ashton then why has his value more than doubled? If he were to buy and then ''destroy'' someone like Jerome in a similar way, I say bring it on. ;-)

[Strongest team or reserves for West Ham?]

OK, I''ve had enough of this endless Worthy bashing, let''s change the subject. This weekend, do we play our strongest side against West Ham or go with the younger players?

Given that with injuries and absences (Hux, Safri) our strongest isn''t going to be very strong, I''d vote to put out a side full of academy players and fringe players, rest some of the players who played 4 games over Xmas and just get the fixture out of the way on the basis that the league really is our priority at the moment.

However, as I recall, Worthy has never ever done this - he has always put out the strongest side in cup games as a matter of principle, so I doubt it''ll happen. Without even Hux now though, I don''t see much chance of us beating the Hammers.

Plus, if we rested Deano it would be wonderful fuel for the conspiracy theorists; they''d have a field day, and that always makes me chuckle.

[Reality Check]

Change the frigging record will you? We had a poor day, a bad result. Do you really think we should give up now?

 

[Worthy says Ashton to be part of promotion push]

[quote user="ronbol ronbol"][quote user="Jack Flash"]Well, I''m beginning to think it might be best to sell him and invest in 2 or 3 players to improve the squad. Whats the point in keeping one quality player, when he''s unlikely to get the quality service he needs and at the same time without Safri the Midfield looks weak and our prospects look mid table at best. Today only Doc had the right attitude and if only we had another 5 or 6 Docs, we would be OK.[/quote]

what planet are you on, deano is the best player to come to norwich in a long, long, time.
would you really trust worthy to strengthen the team with the money! we will end up with another load of jarrett''s - etutuhs - and robinsons

I think not, let someone else have a chance

WORTHY OUT
[/quote]

Your logic is as laughable as it is flawed.

How can you say that Ashton is the best player to come in a long time - a Worthy siging - but that other signings Worthy might make with the money will not be good enough?

 I reckon that half his signings have been a hit (e.g. Ashton, Safri, Doc, McKenzie, Huckerby) and half a miss, which is probably about the same ratio as every other manager. Stop pretending that there are managers out there who only make signings who turn out great. Even the much-lauded Burley, if I remember rightly, practically destroyed a club with rubbish and very expensive signings....

 

[Etuhu is signing today according to neil adams]

[quote user="Marmite"]A waste of money and another slap in the face from Worthington for Rossi Jarvis.[/quote]

I thought Rossi Jarvis was a right back? Are you advocating playing players out of position, especially ones with no first team experience. I suppose that would give people a chance to criticise Worthy for playing players out of position though.

But granted, Etuhu had his worst game for us today. Remember though that Francis also looked very poor when he played right side of midfield. He was only ever any good in the middle. So for me, the pressing need is a right winger/right sided midfielder like Kevin Harper was for us 2 years ago.

[worthy lost us the match today.]

Firstly, the booing seemed to me to be entirely directed at the ref, who deserved it.

However, Preston were the better side today and deserved to win. We could have had a couple of penalties too, but they could also - Brennan''s handball in the box towards the end, if he''d spotted it.

The players looked tired, we were second to every ball and because Preston closed us down so well we never had a chance to get the passing going.

But please, if you''re going to call for Jarvis to play in midfield (a right back who has played, what, 20 mins in the first team so far?) then don''t criticise Worthy for playing players out of position.

And lastly, I do think though that Etuhu was awful today, he didn''t run, didn''t win tackles, didn''t close players down, and mostly passed to the opposition. I thought he''d be fired up against his old club but it clearly worked the other way. He needs some really good performances to come back from that.

 

[short-termist board of directors]

[quote user="Banus Canary"]

With the purse at £25 million for being involved in the premiership, surely the mission of the directors should be to create a solid premiership level club for the future. Our recent sell off of the corner of the ground to Holiday Inn I believe was a mistake, I personally would rather have seen another 2-3,000 seats, even if it meant borrowing the money to do the work.  It may have taken 4-5 seasons to pay back the loan but then at least we have a 30k capacity stadium when we’ll be established in the premiership and a residual income week after week.

 

The hotel deal may have provided Delia and the board with a quick £1m but its not a long term play. We, as a club would have no problems filling the seats especially if we are in the top league, our catchment area is possibly the largest unrivalled area in the leagues due to our location versus other clubs.

[/quote]

 

Banus... Pay attention... this bit has been aired endlessly. The cost per seat of building seats where the hotel is going to go is MUCH higher then the cost of putting another tier on the City stand. If and when the club has the funds to build more seats, that''s where they will build them. They only built in the other corner because we needed a new diabled facility.

 

So the £1m the club has/will make from the hotel going in the other infill is by far the best thing to do.

 

You call for a long term view but then espouse short-termist policies: the flaw in your argument is "then at least we have a 30k capacity stadium when we''ll be established in the Prem". What if we don''t get promoted? Would you want to club to end up like our neighbours, having to renegotiate the loan for the additional seats that no one is sitting in, and getting further into debt all the time because of it? This is the evidence that the club is thinking long-term.

[Snow Watch]

[quote user="Slim"]

Budgie - You seem to forget that last time we used this (Brighton), it used so much power that it caused a power cut round the ground and the game was postponed for this reason instead. I also believe that this was the reason for the lack of power at Carrow Road last week against Southampton - not sure about how many of you are aware but most of Carrow Road lost power at some time.

[/quote]

Um, I don''t think the undersoil heating is electric! There''s a little boiler room between the ground and the river that provides the undersoil heating. It''s now next to the new block of flats, just to the right of the main entrance gates....

[A little grovel and humble pie!]

If only it were that simple Wiz. Another loss or two and the Worthy Outers will be back out in force. But I would say, to those who felt that Burley has the midas touch and could have turned us around in an instant... he''s not had instant success at Soton has he?  I know, just one game, but I thought a team with a new manager were usually fired-up and won their first game...?

Trouble is, we live in a throw-away culture nowadays. If something''s broken we don''t fix it, we bin it and start again. That''s very expensive and, are we better off for it?

[Paying the price of too small a squad]

I think you''ll find that pretty every club has a much smaller squad these days, just to keep the wage bill under control. If you look at the back of matchday programmes, there''s rarely any bigger than ours. Here''s a suggestion for Rick Waghorn - do a piece on the size of each club''s squad, it''d make interesting reading I''m sure.

[Bare bones]

[quote user="Rudolph Hucker"]

City down to the bare bones The words “bare” and “bones” crossed City manager Nigel Worthington''s mind today as he pondered his options ahead of the Boxing Day trip to Sheffield United. Well, who''s bloody fault is this then Worthy? You might as well fail to buy everyone in your family Christmas presents and then blame the lack of items on a fictional saint.

[/quote]

What do you mean, "fictional"...? Surely you''re not suggesting...

Too right though, it''s Worthy''s fault that players are injured! Not. (It was no small coincidence that the year we got promoted was our best in the last 10 in terms of injuries to key players....)

[What a Worthy Mess]

[quote user="Norwichboy"]

I''m sure thus has been written many times already, I just have to get this off my chest because quite frankly it is doing my head in. Worthy''s performance in the transfer market has been absolutely terrible for quite some time. This summer what on earth was he thinking! At the time I was quite pleased we had signed Hughes, but having watched him a few times I firmly believe we might as well have kept Gary Holt and saved the money. Yes, he was out of his depth in the Premiership, but he would have done a job for us in the Championship for one more year at least.

As for getting rid of Mark Edworthy, why?!?! I mean he is far better than Louis Jean or Colin and again he would have saved us money. And then there is Thorne why did we waste money on him when we could have just kept Svennson, who although often injured would have been a very good player at this level, valuable especially when Leon was injured.

And do we really need to say anything about a player that Worthy then lets out on loan just a few months into the season?!

So, do I want Worthy to go? Well, I will give him a bit of time but if we don''t make the playoffs I certainly don''t think we should renew his contract, who knows maybe Steve Bruce will be available by then? I just hope that if we sell Ashton he doesn''t go and waste a lot of money. I was watching Sean Thornton play for Doncaster last night and I have to say he would walk into our midfield at the moment. Worthy quite simply needs a good New Year, and to employ some good scouts to get us out of this hole we are in. Mid season report: NOT GOOD ENOUGH. 

[/quote]

Here are some simple responses to your points.

1) You say his performance in the transfer market has been terrible for some time. How far back do you go? Do you include Ashton in January, or Safri last summer?

2) If Gary Holt could have done a job at this level, how come he''s not doing a job at the next level down (according to reports)?

3) I believe Thorne was a free transfer, we didn''t waste any money on him. Svensson wanted to return home/not play in the Championship, so I don''t think it was an option to keep him.

4) We don''t need to renew his contract anyway, it''s a rolling contract. We can only cancel it (sack him). If Ashton goes, is the profit made not entirely the good work of Worthington? Or are you one of these people who blame his for things that don''t work out but place credit for things that do at someone else''s door?

5) Is your ambition to have Steve Bruce as manager? If so, is that on his recent record, or on his longer record?

[Ipswich fan on Wigan's progress]

Does that mean Wigan will crash and burn next season, go into admin and possibly never recover with huge debts weighing them down,

On the other hand, Sunderland will be back, I would think.

See, I can put a glass half-full spin on any depressing posts ;-)

[What happened to the Worthy out demo?]

There are probably 3 types of supporters.

1. The Worthy Outers - who will probably still be calling for his head even if we are promoted. They are permanently and irreversibly set against him for idealogical reasons, and in some cases always have been. In short, they don''t like his management style. They think the board are ''stubborn and intransigent'' for not sacking him, rather than just disagreeing with their point of view.

2. The Keep the Faithers - who will still keep him even if we are relegated. They would argue that given his record over 5 years, and the circumstances the club finds itself in, he is still the best bet in the long run. They do like his management style. They think the board are strong and courageous to stick to their principles and ride out the storm.

3. The Waverers - who may fluctuate with each poor and then brilliant performance. They''ll support him if results carry on improving, but would probably vote against him if they take a turn for the worse again.

None of these groups are as big or as representative as they like to think they are. They all believe they have Norwich''s best interests at heart, but disagree on how to realise success.

Today''s Guardian article about Sunderland makes interesting reading - how a majority of fans there are in favour of McCarthy staying in a recent poll. Interesting that the Pink ''Un are trying again to stoke up the debate by polling on who should replace Worthy.

[Worthy invites offers for Deano]

What auctioning off?

Last I heard it was ''there''s nothing we can do to stop speculation but it''s going to take big money to get him''. Anyone who doesn''t think we''re a selling club at the right price has not been paying attention for the last 10 years. Show me a club who isn''t a selling club at the right price?

Jeez, Worthy gets slated for not telling it how it is, now he gets slated for telling it how it is. Would you rather he said ''he''s going nowhere'', then when the big offer comes in in Jan and Deano says "you know, I''d like to go" and he goes, the club look like liars.

At this rate, they can''t win.