0Amarillo<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM>  º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>ddMMyyyy0Falseen-US<P><FONT color=#cccc00 size=4><EM>  º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ Amarillo ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°<EM><FONT><P>True

That''s a good shout. Although I think we''ll be safe now. As in, there are quite a few crap teams and certainly 3 worse than us. I believe the players are better than the results (as we showed against Ipswich, when the players last gave a damn) but they need motivating. The hope is that a new manager can motivate them to perform as we know they can... and we should be safe. But... we still have no money and a wafer thin squad, that won''t change overnight....

Definately bring him back, on loan, for the rest of the season, whatever. He would give the club and fans a lift and, above all, I think he would still look a class act in this division.

But, alas, I think he had lost the dressing room... so it was inevitable.

The right decision has been made. But sadly, given the enourmous range of candidates fans have already mentioned, I predict that the majority of fans will not have voted for whoever is the next manager and as soon as a we have a few bad results, will say that they never voted for him and he should go. This reflects a deeper problem about football and we''re not alone. Should we recruit a manager for the longer term. Should the board say "even if we go down this season we''ll keep this guy because he can build a new and better team over the coming years..."

I admire his fighting spirit. But I think history shows that once a manager has lost the dressing room then the end is nigh. Last night, it didn''t look like the players were playing for him. My fear is, nothing will happen until after the end of January, and after the next 3 games, when it will be too late for a new manager to get any new players in, and we''ll have given 3 more points to each of our relegation rivals...

[quote user="The Butler"] Who was the best chairman:-  1.Chase or 2.Smith Who was the best manager:- 1.Worthington or 2.Roeder. If you answer truthfully 1 to both then what good did the demos do? Yes I DO WANT THEM GONE and I am not a board/manager apologist (whatever that is). [/quote] I thought Roger Munby was the Chairman?

I don''t see what''s offensive about that. Suggest we leave it and talk about football stuff instead. Like, has he lost the dressing room?

Indeed. To those calling for her/Michael/Roger to be sacked... who should sack them exactly? They can''t be sacked... they can only be bought out.

[quote user="Larry David"]You ''outer''s do realise that by the time a new manager came in, the likelihood is he would only be able to make loan signings don''t you? It''s just one of your main arguments against GR is his use of the loan market.. [/quote] There''s no place here for rational argument like that. The beauty is, it would give the Outers something to criticise the new manager for. I can see them reserving the domain names already...

[quote user="blahblahblah"]Putting "contempt for the fans" at the top shows a lack of class in my opinion, they should just stick to results - I''d set a target over the next 5 games and call for a protest if the target wasn''t reached if I were them. [/quote] I''ve got it! Let''s get Tony Blair to be our next manager. Top media skills, knows how to work a crowd, perfect. That ticks our top requirement for a manager off the list. Can he name the top 50 players in the country? Great, he can sign them then. His contacts book will be enourmous. That ticks the next item. He also knows how to survive endless media and popular calls for his resignation, and monthly protest marches, so he''d cope at Norwich. I think I might have something here.... anyone agree?  

Assuming Roeder goes, and the next manager takes us down (because Roeder has destroyed the club, and no destroyed club can stay up can it?) How long would people give the next manager before he should go? I''m just curious because after Grant (who destroyed the club), would people have said at that time "nothing less than staying up this season and then being in the top 6 next season will do" ?? I guess I''m asking, what are the real expectations? Who really thinks that there is a queue of people waiting to invest, a top-flight manager who is desperate to come to Norwich (and who isn''t currently unemployed because he failed at his last club), and that Father Christmas is real? My take: like him or not, I think we have to give Roeder a couple more years to build a side. Suppose we stay up this season like we did last (i.e. just), then in the summer 2 or 3 more decent players like Bell and Clingan are added, and then only 2 or 3 loans next season, then I would call that forward progress, steady building. We might even see a couple of youth players break through next year. Or, the Tooth Fairy will leave a billion pounds under Delia''s pillow and we''ll do a Man City.

[quote user="We Want Worthy Back"]Think the numbers who would disagree are falling on a daily basis. I really don''t see any other option other than for him to leave, if this club is to more forward.[/quote] The arguments above are intended to support a particular point of view, and ignore any of the positives. Let''s ignore what was achieved last season, because that doesn''t help our argument. Let''s ignore the quality of signings like Bell and Clingan. Let''s ignore the season-ending injury to our key centre-half. Let''s also ignore the lessons from the past.

[quote user="Potless Percy "] Sack Neil Doncaster and appoint a football focused chief exec [/quote] Isn''t his job to focus on maximising the income of the business, and letting the football manager focus on football. All ND and the board have to do is generate as much cash as they can for the playing side. They have decided that getting the best return on the clubs long-term assets (e.g. the land) is the best long-term strategy. We''ll get ticket revenue for ever from the South stand, and income for ever from the hotel. We can debate whether it was the best strategy for maximising income. It''s certainly lower risk then investing in players who as we know have a habit of not developing. It''s also probably the reson why we haven''t already gone into administration. The problem is, others have aimed higher... some have made it, but some have fallen further (Leeds, Forest, Leicester, Charlton?)

[quote user="jbghost"]It was interesting the support there still seems to be for Delia amongst away fans. There wa a chant of Delia''s Barmy Army at Chrarlton amongst the Roeder out chants. Maybe a few more people beginning to realise at the moment she is the best and only option we have[/quote] I think there is still very strong support for Delia generally, and all she has done for the club. Yes there is a small minority who are asking "What have the Smiths ever done for us?" but the majority know we''re luckier than most clubs (and yet, not as lucky as some...)

[quote user="Hairy Canary"] If option 1 is not achievable at present then we have to go with option 2 whch means that our only chance of any success is top quality management making the best of what we have, our youth policy producing a few gems and wise money making purchases in the transfer market. Despite what you say in your OP, I''m afraid we are talking about GR here because he clearly is not able the man to do any of those things. [/quote] Hasn''t it kind of always been that way? Good to see some more rational debate on this issue though. Seriously, I think Delia agrees with us, she wants to sell, they are trying to sell up... but it''s about 3 years too late unfortunately.

[quote user="Loan City Fc "] Marcus Evans is doing what you would expect an investor to do he is investing in their team and will continue to do so untill they achieve promotion , Delia will continue to put in a few pennies untill we are in League 1 . A Marcus Evans is just what we need at this club [/quote] Talk about the grass being greener... I believe Marcus Evans has ''loaned'' money to the club, by taking on their debts. Which is what some people criticise Delia for. Plus I don''t understand how people can criticise Delia when she has put something like two-thirds of all her ''wealth'' into the club. When you or I have done that we can demand she do more, but in the meantime I think we should be grateful for what we''ve been given! The fact that she isn''t a billionaire is no reason to criticise her. Hands up who would like an anonymous, ''only-in-it-for-the-profit'' investor? I would suggest the a ME is exactly what we don''t need. A Cullum would at least be a) visible and b) have some personal connection with the club.

I have to say, reading through this message board and the RoederOut website, the hatred just oozes from some of the postings. Passion for our club and team yes, criticism of players, the manager, board yes. But the amount of bile and hatred poured forth on here is just horrible. And it was the same with Worthington and Grant. They too were ''destroying'' our club and had to go. And when Roeder is driven out, the next manager will be accused of just the same, with just the same hatred, a few months down the line. This isn''t an opinion on Roeder either way - that''s for other threads. Is this what we follow football for? It reminds me of the 80s when passion spills over into something much more ugly.

[quote user="lucky green trainers"][quote user="Amarillo"] [quote user="kdncfc"]She has destroyed this club, I have never felt so despondent about things before and the sad thing is that the board don''t have a clue how to get us out of this mess. We will be in the conference before to long at our current rate of progress.[/quote] Were you here in the 90s? Your dictionary obvoiusly has a different meaning for the word ''destroyed'' because last time I looked, we still had/have a club. Which is more than some fans of the big clubs consumed by corporate investors can say... So, who should replace Delia then? I know they''ve appionted some international investor-search type people, but they are obviously not as good as the posters on this board, who have more ideas as to who should come in.... Please enlighten us.. and don''t say Cullum, as he''s already in the past few weeks said he''s not interested. So... who then? [/quote] the chairman of preston knew the game was up last jan,,,when after another home defeat they were languishing in the bottom 6---and he arrived afterwards at the car park to find his motor covered in gob... needless to say,,,he had the sense to resign, and guess what new investors were found, and guess what,,,look where they are now??? it doesn''t have to be like that and shouldn''t be...i don''t condone such behaviour - but it suggests that if you really want to sell,,,a buyer will be found... and that is a simple truth... [/quote] A chairman can resign, and a new chairman appointed.... but that doesn''t necessarily alter the share ownership of the club. Presumably you are extending the ''Delia Out!'' message to Roger Munby then as well?

Says a lot about our manager''s opinion of our ''younger'' players that they''re apparently not ready, but Charlton can put a 16 year old on and he looks very good... albeit against us.

''Official'' - as in, started by the club itself?

[quote user="Say Hello To The Angels"] Last year Barnsley from a similar league position to us reached the semi finals beating Liverpool & Chelsea on the way, that is the magic of the fa cup the fact that feats like that are possible, the idea that some of our fans want us to loose disgusts me, don''t show your face at carrow road again your not a norwich city fan. [/quote] Agreed, although I doubt many of the regular negative posters on here actually go to games anyway, so they''re pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

[quote user="kdncfc"]She has destroyed this club, I have never felt so despondent about things before and the sad thing is that the board don''t have a clue how to get us out of this mess. We will be in the conference before to long at our current rate of progress.[/quote] Were you here in the 90s? Your dictionary obvoiusly has a different meaning for the word ''destroyed'' because last time I looked, we still had/have a club. Which is more than some fans of the big clubs consumed by corporate investors can say... So, who should replace Delia then? I know they''ve appionted some international investor-search type people, but they are obviously not as good as the posters on this board, who have more ideas as to who should come in.... Please enlighten us.. and don''t say Cullum, as he''s already in the past few weeks said he''s not interested. So... who then?

At the risk of adding something rational to this thread... ''Smith out'' of what/where? Other than saying that she wants to sell up, as she already has, what are you asking for exactly? She can''t be sacked.. she (and her husband) own the club. She could stop coming to games, and stop putting money into the club, but how would that change anything? Surely you need to be campaigning for someone new to come in and buy the club... so shouldn''t this be a ''Cullum In'' (or insert other name of investor you''re aware of) petition?  

[quote user="lucky green trainers"]they haven''t GIVEN it, they''ve LOANED funds to their business... yeah, and that makes them beyond scrutiny apparently... [/quote] Someone correct me if I''m wrong, but I believe the loaning of money is a tax avoidance measure. If they donated the money it would show up in the club''s profits and be taxed. If they loan it, it doesn''t. Loans can later be converted to shares and although this dilutes the value of existing shares, gets round the tax issue. So I really think we should move on from that one. The money''s been put in. I don''re recall the club repaying any loans to individuals in the last few years, only to financial institutions, they have all been written off or converted to shares. Thus far, the Turners have not, and don''t plan to recall their loan. They are still shareholders like you and I, but they no longer have a seat on the board, like you and I. I think Mick''s article is spot on. Sure, it may be that a more wealthy investor could or should buy the club and put more money in than Delia & Michael can, and thereby ''take us forward'', but that''s not to say that Delia hasn''t done everything she can to move the club forward, and for that I am grateful to her.

Agree with most of that. So, is Cullum another Delia, or more like the owners of Newcastle or West Ham?