chicken

I find the wallet is empty line very hard to believe. If we spent all we had in January then we didn''t have much considering we also sold Grabban - which sort of pays most of Klose or all of Naismith.

Hahahaha! Robert Chase . . . . AGAIN!!!! No I can''t imagine him hiring anyone to do sales or purchases on his behalf. Mainly because the purchases were few and far between and the sales - well he just put a for sale sign up outside the changing room. Worked a treat.

Have to say, after watching Keane for Ireland in the Euro''s (Robbie before anyone gets the wrong idea) - I think handing Holt a one year contract with the view of having him as a coach after wouldn''t be a bad idea. Sometimes it''s handy to have leadership in the dressing room as well as on the pitch. Sure he''d still have something to give us.

Oh and how good is the pinkun article on us possibly having offered Jerome a new contract? Later in the article it says other than Lafferty and a returning RVW we''d have Morris and Loza . . . . The very same Loza who was listed as one of the players we were releasing this summer . . . . .

Just looking through this thread a little. Seems likely that no one will really be sure what is going on until it is done. Brady, Redmond - well we knew that didn''t we? Surprising? Not really. Jerome? In the last year of his contract now - and it is entirely possible that both are true. He has been offered a new contract and perhaps he is dragging his heels a little or the club are just ensuring that every angle is covered. Perhaps he has asked to leave, and like with O''Neil, the club are ensuring fans know that it is against their wishes? That said, he has a year left on his contract, he''ll be 30 come the start of the season and cost us £1million. Yes he did well for us two seasons ago now. But he''s also shown that he can struggle in the premier league. So if a good offer comes in for him would that not be good business if the player does not want to stay? Far too much to be interpreted at this early stage. I find it odd that most people have been calling for the squad to be shaken up and yet O''Neil going and Brady and Redmond being linked with moves away has got hands in the air and people running around panicked telling us we''re sinking! Give it a few more weeks yet.

[quote user="Haggerdoo"][quote user="AJ"]Poor Man''s Jerome![/quote]Trouble is we''ve never played Laffertey in his preferred position as a striker (always on the left wing) - would ditch RVW ahead of him[/quote] Lafferty has played up front for Norwich . . . . . it''s not spoken about much because it wasn''t overly successful and not very memorable . . . .

[quote user="Kidderminster Exile"]Southampton have history of nurturing talent over the years, pity we cant do the same.[/quote] Have to say that I tend to feel that they have no higher a success rate than anyone else. They get a lot of credit because of the likes of Bale but I believe that he wasn''t part of their academy until he was 16. So a lot of credit has to go to those coaching him before that as well. I think a couple of their other players have also spent time with other academies. Still, although they have had some, I think the reality is that by and large there are far far far more that do not make the grade than those that do. And the wealthier clubs tend to be able to keep more players on because they can take a gamble on them. Take Chelsea last season - they had 20-30 players out on loan and a sizable chunk of those were youngsters. For each of those youngsters a loan fee or their wages will have been covered. If both then they are onto a bit of a winner. Bamford for example may have cost us a fee and wages.

[quote user="E.L.F."]Jerzy Krukowski wrote the following post at 01 Jun 2016 12:42 AM: You think the owners of the Mail/Express/Sun give a toss about 99% of the population? I would think that they do otherwise they would cease to have the revenue to publish.[/quote] Hmmm. I suspect what was meant was that they don''t care about them in general, because they don''t. They do care about selling their papers which is why they tend to make up stuff on full page spreads and then have to retract them at a later date - or refuse to apologise for running the story at all if you are the chap that was editor behind the Sun''s reports on Hillsborough immediately after the events. I believe and support in the freedom of the press, but that freedom was never meant to be abused to the degree it is now with the vitriol and lies printed and called truth and ''news''. True investigative journalism can be hard to come by these days.

[quote user="Chip20"]I think it stems from an post-match interview with Delia during one of our recent stints in the Premier League when she used the phrase ''Little old Norwich'' to allude to how we may be perceived by the media and others but a bunch of dimwits on here (and, no doubt in the stands as well) misunderstood and thought she was using it to describe her own perception of the Club. It seems to have stuck ever since.[/quote] Since our encounter with the premier league under Worthington with messers, Huckerby, Ashton and McKenzie. That is how long that has been bandied around at least.

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lappinitup"]This Sky chart shows we are one of the top twenty teams over the last fifty yearshttp://www.skysports.com/football/news/11662/10291705/ultimate-league-reveals-liverpool-are-englands-top-team-followed-by-man-utd-and-arsenalOur 19th placed finish was only one place below our overall average so no surprises there. Good to see how far the binners have fallen though. [:D] [/quote]Size in football in a vague concept, but taking all "size" factors into account, over those 50 years we are the smallest - or pehaps equal smallest with Ipswich - club of that top 18. All the others would count as larger. And of those below us you have to get down to Watford in 32nd to find one that, historically, would be probably be regarded as smaller.[/quote] I''m a bit confused - mainly because you start off by stating that it can be quite vague and then say most of the leagues above us in that 18 could be considered ''bigger''. In what way? I always like to see the average attendances - those to me, mean a lot more than just having a 40,000 seated stadium. http://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england 15th in the premier league last season in terms of average attendances. Stoke are ahead of us marginally. All of the clubs above Stoke have 30,000+ stadiums. Now of course, that is only one aspect of what can contribute towards the perceived size of a club. I have said our ''natural'' place in the leagues should be somewhere from 11th in the Prem to 8th in the Championship. I still stand by this. I also stand by the only time people have ever said Norwich are ''little ol'' is when some other dafty has said we are a ''big'' club. Because ''big'' normally indicates one of the clubs that dwarfs ours. In more recent years the term ''super club'' has been used in the press, to represent Europe''s top teams which very rarely fail to land a player other than to one of the others. And who have some of the biggest global fan-bases. On this front it is hard to see past the likes of Man Utd and Liverpool on this front - Man City, Arsenal and Chelsea perhaps not far off. Those are what I would call the ''big'' clubs with the likes of Everton and Spurs usually there or there abouts as well. That said, we are definitely not small. Smaller than those teams already mentioned - I don''t think there is an argument to say otherwise. But we are inside the top 20 in terms of home attendances. Been hunting away figure stats but struggling to find them. So for me, if you use a scale to indicate the size of a club, it works far better. 1 - being a big club and 5 being a small club. I would place Norwich somewhere just the other-side of a 2. I don''t think we are even a true medium sized club in the grand scheme of things. That would have to be reserved for the likes of teams who tend to attract 15-20,000 fans. I always think it''s important to remember the bigger picture. ''Little'' has to be the majority of League 2 who average no more than 5,500 at home games.

1) Really comes down to if you are really that inclined to believe anyone should be denied their freedom of expression? For me the answer is ''no'' to the question. I would suggest that anyone that takes direct offense disagree with her and are concerned that her status means that people may actually listen to her and agree with her. Now - if what she had said was far more extreme I think it would come with a different response. All she has done is expressed her belief that we should ''remain'' and why. I actually think it would have caused far more issues to have said no and explained that she agreed with the xenophobic reasons that many people seem to speak about when voting to leave. 2) You bet it could. Imagine she had said she was all for leaving and that it was because we had let far too many ''Johnny Foreigners'' into this fair land! Just what do you think prospective overseas players would make of that as a statement? What message do you think it would send to sponsors, possible business partners and any deals the club may wish to make with businesses largely based outside of the UK? Honestly, I think anyone that has large interests economically, with countries and companies that are part of the EU, is likely to be voting to remain, and perhaps quite publicly as well. There is a chance that some do not actually believe that, and possibly for good reason, but they have to be seen to be doing the ''right'' thing in the eyes of business partners etc. That''s life, politics is life. You have to make decisions for a company / business that stand more chance of making you successful. When it comes down to the football level of the club, it also matters, there have been a number of players that have led to discontent within the squad for political beliefs - especially those with extreme connections. di Canio is a good example. Yes, generally politics should not come directly into play with day to day work. But sometimes that just isn''t the case. The club is effected by cuts just as much as anyone else, policing cuts may mean that policing match days becomes more expensive. Pension cuts, benefit cuts etc may effect the way they price tickets. Leaving the EU may result in less income for the club - or more if that is what you believe, and again the club has to react accordingly. So in my mind, it is pretty naive to think that politics doesn''t effect a club in anyway, just we hope that it doesn''t become embroiled in it''s own internal political disputes.

[quote user="Ron Manager"] For those of you who are of the mind to remain, take a step back and ponder this for a moment. If we were on the outside and this referendum was asking us if we would join the EU or remain out, which would you vote for. Would you honestly want to join such a iniquitous organisation? As for the OP, seriously, if the words of Delia are enough to persude you to remain then all I can say is good luck! It would be good for debate if we could do away with the race card, its not about race its about the economic, security, prosperity and successfulness of our country going forward, not just for us presently but for our children and their childrens benefit. By the way, personally I think the remain vote will win quite comfortably. OTBC[/quote] The problem with this Ron old bean, is that if we were on the outside looking in, we would know what our current economic position is and has been and is likely to be whether we remained on the outside or joined. The reality is, that no one can accurately predict what will happen if we step outside other than it will be very difficult to step back inside if things get nasty. We may well be better off, it may take us 10-20years to be better off. It may get worse in the mean time. With an aging population it is going to be the younger generations that cop it the most. Frankly, I''m in my mid 30''s, I pay into a pension that as things stand, I won''t see until I am 68 - the age I am expected to work until - at the moment. It''s already gone up in my lifetime. You know why I am going to vote to remain? I actually trust the EU more than I do my own countries political goings on. There are very, very, very few politicians I trust in any party, but I tell you one thing. The last thing I want to see is the likes of May who wants to get out of the EU Human Rights so she can dictate her own. Gove who is utterly, utterly untrustworthy, Hunt . . . . I mean the list goes on, they are all incompetent in my eyes, have made basic errors such as the continued use of G4s, the lack of dialogue with the medical professionals and turning every school in the country into an academy - resulting in locally, non-qualified teachers being employed. Also, for what it''s worth on the footballing front - it would be a big hassle to sign players again considering every single EU player would then have to go through checks etc.

[quote user="Ricky Spanish"]Dead right Indy. The vast majorty haven''t got the slightest clue what effects leaving or staying would have. Too many bigots just see the red mist when they hear a furrin accent. Put the Daily Mail down guys. The amount of welfare that gets spent on the jobless and particularly jobless immigrants is absolutely tiny. Most of your tax money that goes to welfare goes to supporting single mothers and pensioners.[/quote] Actually, just as worrying is that there are a lot of people who DO think they know what they are voting for but don''t. And to be honest, as someone who knew very little between the two, I am pretty sure that I never want to be on the same side as Gove, Farrage and a few of the other complete tarts of politicians that there are poncing about on the Brexit side of things. Not to mention that the statistics providers have since officially hammered their campaign for abusing the statistics provided to the point of pointing out the £350million a week line is in fact incorrect, in a national paper. However, what really humours me is that someone who is 70+, who cooks meals with recipes and ingredients from around the world that she has also likely visited, and is recognised as someone at the top end of her industry, isn''t allowed to have an opinion because she is a cook. Tell me what most of these politicians are? They are ''nothings''. Gove has been education and now justice minister - what is his experience in either of those arena''s? Zilch. Hate to say it but if you want a real government have a look at the Canadian government where the defense minister is a Military Veteran, the education minister is a former teacher, the health minister is a doctor . . . . . So before you slate someone for having an opinion, perhaps have a look at some of the useless tools we currently have in charge of important areas of our immediate safety and ask questions of them. In a democratic nation, one of the first principles is freedom of expression (people confuse this with speech) which is to allow everyone and anyone to speak of their support or criticism of a political subject. To deny anyone this is in fact a breach of the very fundamental principles that our country is built upon and has fought hard to keep. If you want to wander around dictating who and who cannot have an opinion then you are demonstrating exactly what people have died to prevent.

That would be brilliant Essjayess, apart from that''s not all of what Marinez has said. He stated, right at the beginning of the window, not that Naismith wouldn''t be leaving, but that he wouldn''t be prepared to allow him to leave until this little condensed period of games is dealt with. That''s incredibly common sense if you ask me. The other links are equally as believable in terms of them bringing in players. Although Everton are a relatively high hitting premier league team, they still operate on a tight financial budget (for whatever reason) and possibly don''t have the cash just sitting there to bring in a £20million+ player. That said, one should never, ever get carried away with these things until the player has signed on he dotted line and presented as such.

The failure of modern football? There isn''t one cause - there are several. The redistribution of money from TV deals is a huge issue IMHO. There are inconsistancies throughout the game as well. A good example is QPR and now Bournemouth breaking the FFP rules and with no punishment at this point, at least not one that is immediate enough. Mainly because the football league and the premier league are separate entities despite the fact you get promoted from one to the other. Not enough money is getting through to grass roots football full stop. We have seen a decline in pitches over recent years and also the number of 11 a side teams competing in local leagues. I started playing mens football 16-17 years ago, back then, as an example, Sunday footy in and around Norwich consisted of divisions down to 5a and 5b. On top of that you had the likes of the crusader league and the friendly league. Now, it is 3a and 3b and no other leagues in addition. That''s a loss of 6 leagues, lets say ten teams in each - 60 teams. As for ''fans cheated yet again'' - Alex Neil was very open and honest and stated that this was a chance for the fringe players. I bought a ticket on that knowledge as I thought it would be good to see some of those players given more pitch time to see if they are that far behind and worthy of being ''fringe''. On yesterdays showing the answer would be other than Odija - yes.

I actually thought Dorrans was quite poor. The free kick we had in the early moments summed up his performance for me. At the moment, he is probably bottom of the pile in terms of midfielders for me. As for the breaking at pace thing. Firstly you need the players with pace to do it, then you need to be playing against a team who you can draw in, break down and then play out of quickly. Finally, you need players that can move the ball quickly and accurately. As I said, for the first goal, they didn''t really break upon us, we lost the ball in our own half if I remember rightly. The second goal was due to Bennett feeling he had to push up when the defensive line was a good ten yards behind him at least, surrendering space to Arguero. I honestly couldn''t give a flying monkeys about the FA cup. AN is right in also feeling that the league is the priority. I think it was quite telling that Man City felt otherwise - they need trophies, we need survival, and that''s what showed. We also, didn''t want to give too much away for how we may play against them later in the season so with all of that in mind I am fine with the result. We learned why some players are ''fringe'' players and why others are not.

Ruddy was a little shaky at times, but I guess you would expect that considering the pressure he must have felt he was under. He did keep the tally down, a few very neat saves and some very safe hands. However, I think he will be angry at himself at the third goal, the angle meant there was only one place de Bruyne could really hit it at and a keeper should never be happy with being beaten at his near post. The abuse was pathetic, sadly, I would say that our fans never really got going today and got out-sung by the Manc fans who felt that they had to keep reminding us that they were not glory hunters which I find utterly amusing.

As usual, a top notch write up Ricardo. And as usual I totally concur with 99%. For me the real difference in class today was Aguero and one or two of the forward players. I think Sterling struggled to really have as great an impact as perhaps his transfer fee suggests he should, partly due to Wisdom giving him very little in terms of space and ''letting him know he was there''. I thought Odija and Howson were the two standouts for me, Jerome was good but for me, everything good came through those two. I would have given Odija the accolade personally as I thought his work rate and quality on the ball were stand out.

Rubbish. We were really onto him in the summer apparently, as others have said, unless I read anywhere else we have moved on to other targets and didn''t want him in this window. That could be because of the price being asked - to me, is he any more proven than say, Grabban? Gestede? Nope. A big gamble at £10million, and Bournemouth certainly need him more than us. The one thing I will say about both Bournemouth and Watford is that it will be interesting to see their accounts for this season. We know Bournemouth broke their FFP rules in paying out to gain promotion. It would not surprise me if they do so again this season to stay up. Even if they get a 10 point deduction at the start of next season, a club that has the fan base of a mid table league one team at best, is still going to have brought in more money just for being there next season to make it worth it. It''s really quite a sad state of affairs really. Today''s game just brings that home - the Man City fans having to chant that they were there at the lows, as if they have to justify that they are not glory hunters or plastic fans. Sadly, their club is well and truly plastic to me. The same as Chelsea and any other club that has bought it''s success rather than earned it.

I''m going to be a little bit controversial here. I am going to go out and say from what I saw, I don''t think they looked title contenders. The bit of class they had about them is going forward, Aguero is THE class act. The only thing he lacks is height, but he is strong, quick in terms of pace and in terms of feet and is just lethal. I honestly didn''t feel that Sterling offered that much and looked very ordinary for most of the time he was on the pitch. Their defence was pretty ropey as well to be honest. But as I say, going forward we struggled to handle them and in the end that''s what cost us. Some good play in the opening 15 minutes would not have been unfair to have seen us score. But we don''t have an Aguero, and nor will we for some time yet unless we can unearth a hidden gem somewhere. Him and De Bruyne are worth a combined £70 odd million in transfer sums alone. Who was our most expensive player on the pitch today? Odija? £4million-ish?

[quote user="Rustic"]£8m? Let him go. Behind DM and CJ anyway and it''s an area we are likely to strengthen further in this window. If they have actually offered that much then it''s crazy money for a player who has shown precious little for us thus far. Granted Bournemouth are direct rivals but he has done nothing to suggest that he would be an asset for them anyway.[/quote] Is it really that crazy a price? Rudy Gestede - £6-7million depending upon your source. There is only about a year between them but Grabban has almost twice as many career appearances (both out wide and as a striker). I think player values have moved on a bit even in the season since we were relegated. But the reality is that £8million is around about the going rate for a goal-scoring striker from the Championship. Plus he can play wide if needed. £8million is ''fair''. As for writing off the RVW signing, more like it would mean Naismith''s fee would be cancelled out.

It''s not just about Whittaker, Wisdom is only with us until the summer, signing Pinto now could mean we keep all of them until then which would allow him time to bed in and not have to hit the ground running which some international imports seem to do. I would put money on Whittaker to Rangers in the summer. The only other factor is the link to Byram as well. If we sign him as part of a deal with Lafferty going the other way, maybe Whittaker would be free to move sooner. Two CB''s may be a big ask though, one is proving hard enough at the moment. Two?

The 25 man squad from the season kick off I believe: 25 Squad players (*=Home grown) 1) Bassong Nguena, Sebastian Aymar 2) *Bennett, Elliott 3) *Bennett, Ryan 4) *Brady, Robert 5) Dorrans, Graham 6) *Grabban, Lewis James 7) Hoolahan, Wesley 8) *Hooper, Gary 9) *Howson, Jonathan Mark 10) *Jarvis, Matthew Thomas 11) *Kean, Jacob Kendall 12) *Lafferty, Kyle 13) *Martin, Russell Kenneth Alexander 14) Mbokani Bezua, Dieudonne 15) Mulumbu, Youssouf 16) *O''Neil, Gary Paul 17) Odjidja Ofoe, Vadis 18) *Olsson, Martin Tony Waikwa 19) *Rana-Jerome, Cameron Zishan 20) *Rudd, Declan 21) *Ruddy, John Thomas Gordon 22) Tettey, Alexander 23) Whittaker, Steven 24) *Wisdom, Andre Then you have the likes of Turner and RVW who were not named. So as purple states, we have 23 players currently with Elliot Bennett moving to Blackburn. It''s very easy to suggest where we need strengthening but I would wonder about players leaving as well. We can clearly afford to lose a striker before having to get to the point of getting one in to replace them. Jerome and Mbokani are currently battling for that lone striker role. Grabban is more highly thought of, it would appear, than Hooper or Lafferty. Five at this point is a bit much if we continue in the same vein with a lone striker. I can see two of them moving on if we sign another striker. Four is about right if they all offer something a bit different - ie could play in behind as one of two, or out wide if needed. If we sign Pinto, I imagine that we wouldn''t look to sort out the over stock of full backs in that are unless we had the option of another - such as Byram, who can play wing or full back. At which point we''d either end Wisdom''s loan or look to shift Whittaker. I suppose it also depends upon solving the demand for a CB. If we can get one in then there is an argument that Martin would offer cover at CB and RB. And then where else? CM is well stocked so I think we would have to lose one to make way. And who out of that lot? I doubt we''ll look there until the summer. Especially with Odija coming back into the picture. For me, the other position that has been overlooked at times is right wing, Redmond doesn''t really have any direct competition and when you compare it to the other flank where we have three solid and relatively fast players in Brady, Jervis and Olsson - comparatively it looks a bit short. However, it would appear that Odija is comfortable there as well so is covering that eventuality as well. It really is a case of a couple of ''must haves'' for me - once they are brought in, only then can we truly look to improve the squad. Happily it would appear that central defence and right full back are what we are looking at primarily. These would be the two primary issues for me as we have been caught short there in terms of depth of squad IMHO. I''d be more than happy with Naismith as well, he can play in the Wes role or wide or alongside Jerome or Mbokani. That would be the three in terms of priority for me. Anything on top of that would be a bonus. It seems like the first time we have a squad where I feel we can genuinely look to improve upon but in nearly all positions but don''t have to do so desperately giving what we already have at the managers disposal.

I really hope we do sign him for two reasons. Firstly I think he is more ruthless in terms of finishing. The other is that it''s clearly taken him time to adapt, it would seem a horrible waste of a season if we have spent all of this time and effort getting him up to speed only to not keep him. Part of me wonders if the loan was arranged due to the slowness of his club sorting out issues with his prior club to them, and that it was the best way to get the deal done and still give them time to sort it. At 30, because of the way he plays, I think he could have a good 3-4 years in him yet. We''ll see. Anyone suggesting that he has struggle for consistency needs to get a bit of a grip IMHO. We have not seen enough of him to draw that conclusion. We knew he could take time to adapt and personally, I hoped he would play against Villa from the start. Also, it''s quite telling that AN has come out and said that we can expect more of Mbokani.

I agree largely with what Ricardo has said. In terms of strengthening in January, it is always about what other teams do as well. Villa would need 10 wins from 19 to stay up. That is above a 50% win ratio, considering that sort of form is what would normally see you higher up in terms of the table come the end of the season I just don''t see it. Big Sam has a reputation but how many teams has he taken over of half-way through a season and in their predicament? They are also only four points better off than villa so you would have to say that they are going to need 9 wins from their remaining 20 games. And if we go on the sage advice of Ricardo they have also conceded the most amount of goals in the Premier League with 37. As if that alone is not enough of a task for Sam, they have only scored 19 goals. Whilst that''s not the lowest it''s also not particularly great. It means they have to be tighter at the back and yet score more goals. I think if we can put a further three points between us and Sunderland over the next couple of fixtures, they are also another team that is incredibly unlikely to overhaul us. As Ricardo says, although you can never truly write anyone off, I think they are gone too. The last spot is just too close to call. And that is one fear in the league this year, in that bar a couple of teams, no one is really playing all that consistently. As if to highlight that, Man Utd in 6th have 30 points having scored the same number of goals as us but having conceded just 16. Swansea in 17th have 19 points. 11 points between those two places, for me, just goes to show that a little run of form this season could pay dividends for any team that finds it. And this is the only place where I will disagree with Ricardo. Southampton and Everton are not safe from the relegation fight yet. Although it may only be that last spot that threatens them, it would only take a victory from one of the four teams below those two on 20-23 points that could drag them back in. Southampton especially, who seem to be really struggling for form and only a point better off than WBA too, sit a mere 7 points off 18th. Everton are 9 points and I would say they have a far stronger squad and of recent weeks have been unlucky not to get more points/wins. Not many teams ever can expect to score 3 and still lose.