nycanary

me fondest memory of city/united matches was the classic in the 80s when norwich came back from 3-0 down with 20 minutes to go to tie 3-3 with united at carrow road.i believe whiteside had scored a couple before on about 70 minutes, keith bertschin pulled back what was thought to be a consolation. then, mick channon pulled another one back and in the final minute, during a goalmouth scramble, louie donowa, on his professional debut for us, scored the equaliser that everyone greeted like a victory.magic.

Assume this has been covered in other posts. There have been shouts of Worthy should go! Or No He Shouldn''t! I guess I feel like this: a. NW and his staff have FAILED this season. They have not adjusted. Not improved players. Not made team changes fast enough (read: Shackell). Not recognized how teams are tearing us apart and how to stop the bleeding. Not publicly immasculated the team until too late. b. NW and his staff should not be fired if we get relegated. I believe they will look back and learn from their mistakes and are certainly capable of having us bounce back immediately. Failed but should not be fired. Anyone agree?

Venting Alert!! We have such poor leadership on the team. There''s no one to turn to to suggest that they can be our version of a Gerrard, or a Keane or a Vieira. Or even a poor man''s version of it! Our best defender is Shackell! I see him marshalling the troops well. And he''s only played in the last few matches. Francis is basically non-existent. Yes, he''s scored 7 goals. And some crucial ones at big moments but for the most part, he''s a bit part player on our side. I don''t see him getting stuck in. I don''t see him making crucial tackles. I don''t see him setting up players with creative passes. I just don''t see any of it with any regularity. And Huckerby is totally predictable. That''s in a separate post. Bring back Bentley as soon as possible. We need someone with some creativity and unpredictability who isn''t afraid to shoot the ball. I guess the players are to blame but honestly, the coaching staff need to be questioned here. That''s a separate post! Grr.

I understand why Hux''s prior clubs have been so frustrated with him. I am so frustrated with him right now because he''s become so predictable. And even so, he''s our best player. His head-down, run at defenders, and try to split them both by hoping to put the ball between their legs or get the luck of the bounce is predictable. Premiership defenders don''t need to watch much tape to know what he''s going to do. And frankly, I just don''t understand it at all. He''s a clever player. He''s not young. He doesn''t need to add much to his game to make him everso unpredictable. He just needs to try something different once in a while ot cause defenders to think twice. He is at his best when he cuts in from the left to deliver a cross. Early this season, he was getting past his markers but as he''s been more watched, it''s become much more of a rarity nowadays -- he''s just so predictable. I don''t understand why someone in the coaching staff wont FOCUS him on making some small additions to his repertoire. It would make a world of difference to his and the team''s performance. I don''t care that he scored a wonder-goal against Arsenal. Big deal. We lost 4-1.

Beating a dead horse. Recent matches: FRANCIS: POOR HOLT: POOR EDWORTHY: POOR FLEMING: POOR HUX: INDIFFERENT STUART: INDIFFERENT DRURY: OK McKENZIE: OK GREEN: OK ASHTON: GOOD SHACKELL: GOOD I just needed to say it. Call it therapy. I just can''t believe how schoolboyish our team play is right now. We are just sitting back and letting anyone and everyone come at us. I was playing with a bunch of lads last night and the other team was just laying off me...not tackling and letting us have lots of time on the ball and basically, I (or anyone else for that matter) could just pick apart the defence when a team-mate made the smallest run into space. And I thought....this is what it must be like as a Premiership player playing against us. Easy. It''s just so upsetting to see it happen like this.

Sorry if people have covered this already in other threads but the low point of our abysmal performance at bolton was giving away the goal. let''s be honest here -- sure it was a great strike from stelios -- but did we really need to give him 10 yards and 10 seconds worth of space on the edge of the box? i think it was eddy who just sat and ballwatched AGAIN. have you ever seen one of our players get that kind of space in that type of situation against a premiership team? i dont understand all this "fantastic effort" crap that worthy keeps going on about -- frankly, i feel like i''m consistently seeing less effort than whoever the opposition is. pissed off.

DD -- you''re absolutely right. Greeno should have claimed that cross despite the ball-watching from the defenders. Shackell (who performed superbly) was not aware that Kezman was where he was for his goal otherwise he would have gone in and stuck a leg out instead of letting Green get the ball. And if I recall, Eddy was out of position and caught off guard with Cole''s goal. Shacks was great. Eddy looked lost. Drury was solid. Ultimately, I would like to see a Helveg/Shackell/Doherty/Drury defensive lineup.

campbell....altho your icon is super cool, your team selection is a little odd. no ashton? 3 million pound signing and he''s on the bench? what am i missing?

Doncaster is right. It doesn''t make a whole lot of difference. Basically, the true cost of the loan is whatever the interest payments are on an annual basis and that''s going to be something like 100,000 pounds a year. When the loan comes up to be repaid, the club can choose to pay it back if it''s flush with cash OR, and this is more likely, they will refinance the debt and push it''s payout back another 10 years. Clubs, and for that matter, companies everywhere refinance their debt by continually pushing it back and servicing the debt by paying the interest per year. Ultimately, you have to pay the piper but if you run your club well, you don''t have to for decades. What a club has to prove to a lender is that it can make the interest payments and still have money left over from the day to day operations of the club to avoid disaster situations. Clubs that have gotten into trouble are those that took on too much debt, couldn''t pay the interest rates and when their loans came up to be repaid, no one would refinance it for them because their day-to-day operations wouldn''t generate enough money to pay off the interest, let alone the debt itself. So, for Norwich, this generous gift results in 100,000 pounds of extra cash per year and no real impact on near-term funds available for things like transfers. Sadly, Doncaster is right.

realist with a bout of pessimism in the hope that pessimism stops me from predicting victories and tempting fate to go the other way.

Another way for us to watch this. The mini-league. As of today, it''s: P W D L F A PTSBlackburn 0 0 0 0 0 15 8Palace 0 0 0 0 0 11 5Norwich 0 0 0 0 0 23 3Soton 0 0 0 0 0 15 2WBA 0 0 0 0 0 26 0Only the top two survive as you all already know.I wonder if someone can write some quick code to have us all predict what the remaining scores are in matches involving the bottom 5. then, take the average of all the predictions and see where this table ends up. then watch and see if it pans out.webteam? just take 2 mins right? .

wiz, its unfortunate you have come to this decision. sometimes people with strong points of view find themselves in the crossfire of people who look at the world in shades of gray. tho i don''t know you, it seems that you''re much more of a black or white kind of person....and that''s fine -- but it will mean that in certain cases, you will have to stand your ground come what may, or accept that a less defiant approach that may be the right path even tho it comes with compromises. i, for one, would like you to rescind your decision but hey, if you''re losing your mind over this stuff, maybe you should take break. good luck to you. OTBC forever.

Not sure about the rest of you but I felt good about Stuart''s performance yesterday. While not fully match fit, he showed good vision, aggression and was a cool head in a bubbling contest.Frequently he showed the awareness to dig himself or a teammate out of a tricky situation by looking up and playing a simple pass to the open man some 20 or 30 yards away -- relieving the pressure.Good signing. Other people think differently/same?When fully fit, our squad provides us with many options:GreenEdworthy/HelvegDohertyFleming/CharltonCharlton/DruryJonson/BentleyFrancisHolt/Safri/StuartStuart/HuckerbyAshtonHuckerby/Svensson/McKenzieFrom what I can tell, the only truly guaranteed starters we have are Green, Doherty, Francis, Huckerby and Ashton. The other 6 spots are up for grabs.

The fact that Yankee says what he does doesn''t mean he should be subjected to a "I-told-you-so" if we do stay up. Fundamentally, he is right. We may not want to hear it, but he is accurate. And if we do stay up, it will be because of our fight, togetherness, self-belief and some luck will play a role. It will not be for our skill, positioning play, finishing or defensive quality.Throughout the entire season, many have said that we do seem to lack some pretty basic footballing facets to our team.We dont move off the ball well at all. This might be our greatest weakness. We''re still moving like we''re in the Championship. But if you don''t have the best players, you have to play well as a team and that means you must be able to have solid off the ball running. We don''t.Our defence does like to hoof it. Mostly, it''s because they are full-on scared out of their lives. Doherty, for all his solidity will ALWAYS kick the ball to touch even when another option is open for fear of screwing it up. It''s safe but only serves to continue a period of pressure on our team. Vicious cycle.We do not finish well. It was nice to see WBA do the same...it''s another team in the Prem who can''t seem to find that touch in front of goal.We do not tackle well. Yankee hit the nail on the head. We ball-watch. Our players are hunched down, 5 yards away, ready to attack....when in reality, all that is happening is that we''re providing the opposition time and space for him to pass through to someone else who, more often than not, has done some clever running to get into space. I think part of the reason we do well when we''re behind is that we get stuck in and we''re desperate. GET STUCK IN from the beginning lads.We don''t have good first touch control. This only exacerbates the issue of not moving well off the ball. Don''t move well off the ball and you have fewer passing options. Don''t control it well off the first touch and you''re under pressure immediately.The thing is that anyone, at any level playing football knows that when the above is accomplished, the game flows much more easily and the ultimate result is a Chelsea/United/Arsenal-like performance.All this is easier said than done...agreed. But what is MOST disturbing is that we are not seeing an improvement in these facets of our game. We MUST see improvement!The match yesterday was so cathartic -- don''t get me wrong -- when Francis scored I was almost in tears. But it also highlighted our need to see progress so we can be more in control of our own destiny when the games get tough.

our main competitors have been making some serious moves:WBA -- Chaplow, RichardsonSouthampton -- Redknapp, Quashie, Bernard, CamaraPalace -- ok..not a whole lot.We picked up Ashton and Stuart which isn''t half bad but the moves at Southampton have me worried.....I hope we didn''t get TOO conservative during the period...Ashton notwithstanding.Sujay.

but that''s the point...all three offers are not equal. pompey''s one trumps both blackburn and norwich. if i were newcastle and all three were willing to pay 100% of bellamy''s wages, then i''d go Pompey first (because they are willing to add the option on Yakubu), Bburn second and Norwich third. i''m not being defeatist -- just realistic. but if there are other factors involved, then we can move up in the order.

Seems that both Portsmouth (because they are willing to give Newcastle an option on Yakubu) and Blackburn (Mark Hughes / Wales connection), are ahead of us in the Bellamy stakes. Even if Bellamy had a favorite, Newcastle is unlikely to care since they are not exactly ready to take his wishes into consideration. Portsmouth 1st; Blackburn 2nd (Newcastle would see them as more viable to stay up and pay a fee at the end of the season); Norwich 3rd. But let''s hope I''m wrong.

there''s ALWAYS the option that newcastle will foot a portion of the wages. it doesn''t have to be 100% paid by us.

just for kicks: Green Edworthy Doherty Fleming Drury Jonson Francis Helveg Huckerby Ashton Bellamy from one of the worst strikeforces in the premiership to one of the better ones! fwiw, i feel bellars will go to blackburn for the same reason that everyone has mentioned -- Hughes/Savage and the Wales link. but we''re certainly in a much better position now to pick up a player of his quality than we were a month ago. this whole discussion wouldn''t even have happened a month ago. it would have been laughed off. but now we''re probably on the shortlist.....

vladimir smicer. still at liverpool. clearly out of favor.i remember him being above average. could do a job as an attacking midfielder for us.anyone agree?

point taken volpe but i think you''re missing the point. when we did have a player in front of the defence (4-1-2-1-2), i think it was safri and if i recall, it looked quite good on that front. we had problems with the wings but that''s because we were still playing 2 up front. Green Edworthy Doc Flem Drury Safri/Helveg Jonson/McVeigh Francis Mulryne/Safri/Helveg Huckerby Ashton not bad. but we''d have to be careful to support ashton up front. having said all this...this formation isn''t dissimilar from the 4-5-1 we''ve been doing. so maybe it''s not that much different from the problems we''ve been having supporting the lone striker upfront. again, we miss bentley in a 4-5-1 formation. you need that creative player to help push on and support that striker.

me too...i''ve mentioned numerous times that our movement off the ball may be the single most important weakness on our team. given that we don''t have the best talent in the prem, we have to make it up with intelligent tactical movement to create space. we don''t do that nearly well enough. it''s also part of why losing bentley was so unfortunate for two reasons -- he can pick out players who do show a little movement (better than our other players) and he comes from the arsenal school of great movement and when watching him, you could see him making little sprints into pockets of space to be ready to collect the ball.

i''m so fed up with having every single one of my weekends start with a depressing result. 3-1 down to boro. and with southampton''s performance today (better than ANY norwich performance this season) and palace''s lead vs the excellent spurs team, it''s looking bleak.

WBA has Artim Sakiri on the transfer list. I remember watching him play as captain of Macedonia against England a few times and was thoroughly impressed. He''s a very creative midfielder from what I recall. I wonder if it would be wise to consider him a loan signing. I think he could be an interesting replacement for the creative gap left by Bents injury. Thoughts?

dont fret too much.  the points tally of the bottom 4 clubs is probably lower than ANY other clubs at this stage of the season for any premiership season. if this way last yearor the year before and we had this points total, we''d probably already be 100% doomed. but we''re not...coz we''re still in with a helluva chance.