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Up and Away

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  1. Spurs have had similar for 10(?) years. They certainly had it when based at Wembley while WHL was being rebuilt. You only need it when grounds regularly sell out. Not really been a thing at Ipswich until recent seasons.
  2. It is not that is did not suit me, more I question the relevance of your post. You seemed to be creating new, spurious arguments for the sake of it. Deflecting away from main point we were discussing. "Not only that but a fair bit of journo license in there." "Disappointing 2023-24 campaign" - Those are not my comments, those are from Pink Un journalists. ""significant profit", how much is enough to be classed as significant? £800k? £2m? £10m?" - Imv significant is in the context of the overall budget, so neither £800k nor £2m. Again, "significant profit" is journalist comments, not mine. "Do we know it's his money? Or is it the Norfolk groups?" - Does it matter which of the owners is wanting to take money out of the club? No. It could be S&J. My question remains valid, when the club has lost £35m in parachute payments, is this the season to take money out of the club? "If we are short wages wise, you'd think a sale has been lined up for quite some time to mitigate it". Yes, that would be your plan...and your point is what? "Equally, profit isn't selling a player to break even." - Yes, well aware of that, again your point is what? So, I believe we have two differing opinions here. 1. You believe that the club has taken the necessary steps to reduce the wage bill so that it is line with reduced revenues next season. Any profit, referred to by local journalists, whether it is or not significant, is intended for other purposes, including potentially paying off internal debt. 2. I believe that the turnover in players over recent seasons has allowed the club to significantly reduce the wage bill but it currently remains above what is affordable, so significant player sale(s) are needed to balance the books. I estimate £15-20m this summer, a similar figure to last summer. The odd part of this discussion is that I would actually prefer you to be right, I just cannot see the numbers adding up to get the salary budget down to break even next season. I would prefer any transfer profits to be reinvested in the squad rather than taken out of the club. That would to me signal a lack of ambition.
  3. Blimey, where do we start. I have said on multiple occasions on this thread my estimate is £15-20m. I have also said up to £20m, which is the same thing. I have not once said £10-15m, although others may have done, as I am not alone in this view.. Local journalist comments: From Friday, "Financially, City do need to record at least one major sale this summer and are expected to target the loan and free transfer market in the meantime." https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/24459732.francisco-moura-target-norwich-city---reports/ From Today "The Norwich City sporting director is tasked with assembling a new squad, transformed from a disappointing 2023-24 campaign and ready to play in a completely different way, all while making a significant profit." https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/24467131.norwich-city-transfers-futures-star-men-analysed/ Why would local journalists keep referring to the need for major player sales to balance the books, whether it is because the wage bill is too high (my view) or that we need to repay some of our debts (which appears to be Chicken's view), if this was not true? On 22/23 accounts, the club made a circa £20m profit last summer on transfer sales, this was the target that Wagner got set, which he referred to at the end of the season. Those player trading profits will appear in the accounts for last seasons (23/24) when they are published toward the end of this year/early next year. Those profits will have already been used to offset operating costs and advances of transfer fees instalments and TV monies owed etc. last season etc. so will be long gone before we get to this year's accounts.
  4. Possibly, to pay back MA? Given the loss of parachute payments this summer, is now the time for an owner to be taking money out of the club? Anyway, we will find to in due course if a profit is made this summer and how it was used by the club.
  5. From the PinkUn this morning: "The Norwich City sporting director is tasked with assembling a new squad, transformed from a disappointing 2023-24 campaign and ready to play in a completely different way, all while making a significant profit." I may be mistaken but why would BK need to make a significant profit if the club wage bill had already been cut to the point where it is manageable in a post-parachute payment world? It should be a lot clearer in about six weeks time.
  6. Last comment from me on this; else we are going to go around in circles. It is quite common for relegated clubs to plan for player sales, to close the gap between revenue and income. It is almost to be expected. The club have only spent money on Cordoba, which would have been covered by the Tzolis sale (there should be plenty of change left over as well - fee and wages). Needing £15m in sales, knowing interest in Idah (firm at £5m), Sara and Rowe, with owners primed to cover the shortfall if needed is a more prudent planning approach than some clubs...
  7. Predicting where the club is financially is an inexact science, and we will not know for sure until the next set of accounts are published, at which point they are to a degree out of date. We have different views on the gap, which is fine, I am not sure there is much to be gained from repeating how we got to our figures. But good to see your sums, thank you. Having a strong Idah bid in their back pocket must surely help maintain confidence that the numbers will add up this season. And I agree, they would have not sanctioned the Cordoba signing without being confident. Let's see what the next month or so bring us.
  8. Thanks for sharing. I did a similar, back of the envelope calculation and came up with a net saving around half of yours, hence why I still reckon there is a £15m gap to fill. Topically, that gap fits with the Pink Un article this morning. A few comments: Wage bill includes all staff costs, not just playing side. I have ignored young professionals as they tend to be on low wages which would become a rounding error when we are discussing tens of millions of pounds. I have also not included new contracts, e.g. Idah, unless info can be found online. I have not included loanees, in or out, again to focus on the bigger contracts. 2022-23 season: Drmic, Rupp, Lees-Melou and Zimmermann all left the club in the summer of 2022, so virtually none of their wages would have appeared in the last set of accounts. Cantwell (25k pw) and Hugill (13) left the following January, so only half a season’s wages were paid that season, which is the sum that is saved (not incurred) in future seasons. £1m saving. 2023-24 season: Pukki (47), Krul (25), Byram (30), Dowell (7), Sinani (1), Aarons (23), Rashica (45), Mumba (3), Omobamidele (12) and Placheta (16). £10.8m saving. 2024-25 season: Giannoulis (32), Gibson (43), McCallum (15). Assume Tzolis saving covers Cordoba salary. £4.6m saving. Players signed in same period Sara (31), Nunez (17), Fassnacht (22), Fisher (5), Sainz (18), Duffy (18), Stacey (20), Barnes (23) and Long (5). £8.3m investment Overall, net saving £8.1m. You can add 15-20% on to this figure to cover club NI contributions, so gets you to around £10m net saving from the £56m quoted in 2022/23 accounts. It will likely be higher as we have no information on performance bonuses, so add another 20%, gets you to about £12m saved and a current wage bill in low £40ms. I have also used the same reference https://www.capology.com/club/norwich/salaries/2023-2024/#google_vignette
  9. My comment was in response to the OP claiming no players sales were needed this summer. Despite the club senior management repeatedly talking about the importance of player sales. While you can make the argument that this is true for all clubs, it is particularly pertinent to Norwich this summer having lost £35m in revenue and needing to balance the books.
  10. Well we will have to agree to disagree on whether ii is nonsense or not. Your original post challenged my view (which others on this thread clearly also share) that the club need so sell £15-20m worth of players this summer to balance the books as (your quote)..."which would mean the club had over spent by that amount. Whereas the club accounts and comments show that not to be true." The last set of accounts are two seasons out of date so will say nothing about the budget for the coming year. The club is losing £35m in revenue compared to last season as it no longer receives a PL parachute payment. So, it is not much of surprise that the club will need to cut costs this season by the same amount, or sell players to bridge the gap. In practice they will be doing both, and in my estimation need up to £20m in player sales. The club has repeatedly talked about the importance of player sales to the business model. The local journalists have talked about the need to make at least one big sale this summer to balance the books. I am surprised you find my view that player sales are needed this summer is controversial. A basic understanding of how the club's revenue and expenses are changing season to season, or simply listening to what those in charge and the local media are saying will get you to the same or similar conclusions. Final point, a budget can be set with player sales being part of the plan to make the numbers add up.
  11. His long term intentions are unclear but you would expect he is to waiting to buy out S&J. After that, unsure. For a majority share holder, his investment to date is small (£8m) with both the preference shares he purchased and director loans both interest earning for MA and fully repayable. It may be he is hedging his bets until Delia and Micheal are gone and he has overall control over the finances, before committing significant investment. If MA can get the club back into the Prem, then he is sitting on a very significant profit, which is more an indication of S&J weak bargaining position than his ability to flip a profit.
  12. I agree with the conclusion - £15-20m sales needed this summer, which is consistent with local journos talking about the need for a big sale. The only element of the workings - always useful to show these - I would challenge is the that the club halved its wage bill between the 22/23 and 23/24 seasons. Certainly would have been lower as the likes of Pukki were no longer at the club, but a 50% cut seems overly optimistic. The major saving would have been the year before when relegation clauses kicked in, and that is before you look at the big salaries given to the experienced pros employed last summer. If the club wage bill is now sub £25m as proposed, then I do not believe any sales would be required this summer Which gets us back to my suspicion that the wage bill is still low £40ms, and £15-20m in sales being needed. Next summer the club will lose a few more high earners so the required sales will likely be lower than this summer.
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