gissing canary

So this is based on absolutely no data. But I wonder if Wagner has a release clause if we don’t make play offs? Everyone says he has a 1 year rolling contract, but I wonder if there is something that allows us to exit him in the summer for say 1 or 3 months, if we don’t achieve playoff aim? As that would explain not firing him using an interim? Also why Zoe Webber goes on about playoffs all the time? Man Utd have had similar before. And Spurs fired Jose before the cup final, because it would have got more expensive if he won the cup. As genuinely I can’t see why else anyone keeps him around:

Assuming we don’t go up. A lot has been said on here and the guys on the pinkun podcast were talking about. So I put together what I thought were realistic options for the rebuild. The key concern is; if this team would be good enough to compete? Roughly assuming 433 or 4231. Here goes: Sell: Rashica, Aarons, krul, placheta, one of Gibson & hanley. Don’t see it raising much above 15-20m. Release; sinani, josh Martin, McGovern, byram, pukki (I don’t think he stays anyway), Onel. Should reduce wage budget. Open to offers (but would replace); giannoulis, nunez Sign; rb, cb, 1 or 2 dms, 1 winger and 1 wide / pacy forward Squad: Gunn, barden / one of the others Full backs: mccallum, giannoulis, mumba, + 1 rb Cbs; Gibson or Hanley, omo, tomkinson Dms; Gibbs, Sorensen, McLean + 1 or 2 AMs; Sara, Dowell, Nunez Wingers; Rowe, tzolis + 1 or 2 Strikers; Idah, Sargent

Jake Clarke salter just released by Chelsea. Young, home grown defender, left footed I believe. Could be a Zimmermann upgrade?

Buy 3 players, 2 dms and 1 striker: Sell; krul, Aarons, placheta, hernadez, hugill, cantwell, rupp Take any half decent offer, as a chance to upgrade: Hanley, Zimmerman, giannoulis, mccallum, josh Martin, sinani Squad (433): Gk: Gunn & McGovern Fb; mumba, byram, mccallum, giannoulis Cb: Zimmermann, omo, Gibson, Hanley Cm: Sorensen, lees mellou, McLean + 3 more. Only 1 on loan, max. Wingers; tzolis, dowell, rashica, sargeant Strikers: pukki, idah + 1.

Was looking through the side at the derby and subsequent matches, realised that the most recent first team had all been signed / given debuts in last 2 years and cost under 5m. Also how many players we have that just aren’t in the picture, but probably on the bigger wages (count about £25m out on loan). Made me think about how much we will save in the summer post clear out. All the numbers below are estimated, based on news stories and football manager (not super reliable). Leaving: Pinto: 20k a week Naismith: 30k a week McGovern: 10k a week Jarvis: 20k a week Wildschut: 20k a week Likely to leave (subject to interest of course): Nelson: 20k, would take anything, but maybe guess 1m fee Raggett: low wages, signed for 350k, probably 250k to sell Husband: low wages, probably another 250k Franke: wages been paid by loan clubs: probably 1m fee Ben Marshall: low wages, probably 1m fee Some of the players have been out on loan, so their wages have been covered this year. But looks like £100 - 125k a week SAVED and £3.5m of fees coming in with no dent at all on the first 18: over a year that is £8.7m or £10m saved. Which surely puts us in a strong position in the summer and beyond?: Obviously we have to resolve / replace the following: Klose: probably 30k Passalack: 10k maybe Rhodes I wasn’t sure about some of Webber and Farke’s decisions early on at times (Husband and Stierperman at left back), but this alone would put us in a great position in the summer. Clean – lean squad, no hangover costs and hopefully premier league money!

Completely agree this is what he is. Farke said weak down the flanks. If Lewis got injured now, it would derail everything.

Derby even if they go up are in real trouble. 3 key players for them are Harry Wilson, Mason Mount and the young defender from Chelsea. It would cost them about 50m to sign those players if they go up. Which is probably more than their transfer budget and would just be to maintain the team they have!

My dream window (within reason): pinto - sold, wages gone olivera - sold or loaned might be better, wages gone wildschut - recalled and sold husband - sold, not good enough at all. passlack - goes back. We have Marshall, Godfrey, Hernandez who are all above him for it. Even Thompson could play there. jarvis - gone, already happened. Sign a homegrown left back. Brendan Galloway on loan from Everton? Perfect window. Money saved / raised and quality kept.

Sell Nelson Oliveria, Ivo Pinto (don’t need 3 right backs and he leaves in the summer on a free), Matt Jarvis (haha) and any of the guys out on loan that we can shift: husband, Wildschut, raggett. loan a home grown left back in - we lack any cover. The issues with signing anyone is they need to be home grown. Which is why we can’t let Marshall leave, plus he is a decent winger when played for other clubs.

[quote user="Nuff Said"]Well, for a post that originally just triggered abuse, it''s generated plenty of debate, fair play GC. [/quote] Thanks! I did feel the initial reaction was a touch far, even if people disagreed with my thoughts.

Any London games - so I can go easily. Fulham is awful though, as as stated above we always lose. Even though my local game.

My view of a director of football is that their role is to: - Manage players contracts. - Scout and sign interesting players - Put together a balanced squad for the manager (positionally) - Stop a manager ballooning squad size, acting as a counter point between a manager and board. We all remember alex Neil giving turner and Whittaker extra years for no reason. - Put together a balanced squad in terms of age group, with future resale value. - Move on players for profit. For me Webber is underperforming in many of these aspects: - pinto was surely worth money, but contract is running down. Same with Klose. We spent 11m on them, ok they aren’t worth that, but both seem to be leaving on frees. Let alone Olivera - Done well in places, but Germany / Farke knowledge heavy. Zimmermann our best signing last year? - Absolutely failing. 10 cms. 4 right backs and 1 left back of ability. Bizarre. Can’t understand. Lots good on their day, but all together... - Mixed. Too many players makes tough to get value for some of them. Could we move on any of the midfielders for more than we spent? - I think over rated. Murphy and Madison were easy sales. Good young British talent. What he has failed to do is move on anyone else for good value? Franke, Naismith, wildschut, etc. Other than Jerome and waktins I haven’t seen enough smart sales from us. Overall I believe in director of football concept. Just he doesn’t do what I think one should. Check real Madrid’s squad, pretty much nailed on 2 players for every position in 433. Manager picks and coaches the team.

Everyone is starting krul? A lot of serious errors recently, whilst McGovern plays well and keeps a clean sheet?

With Rhodes in, it looks like it for Nélson, but checked our squad list and seems we have a few others to go. Seems like we are stocking piling again: now players in, we can move them on. My thoughts? Deadwood: Nélson - 2 strikers signed. Looks toast. Marco Stiepermann - 3rd choice left back. 7th or 8th choice midfielder - needs to go. Yanic Wildschut - not liked by management. Hope we sell and not another loan. Russel Martin - time to move on. Ivo Pinto - harsh to ever call him deadwood as a decent guy, but 2 players signed in his position and 1 year on contract. Time to move on. Matt Jarvis - more likely to retire than be signed by anyone. Potential loans out: Carlton Morris - with 2 strikers signed and Dennis already here, seems might be best for him to go on loan again. Louis Thompson - 2 years out. Might need a start to get fit again. Could probably do with maybe 1 more forward player. Maybe, then I would be happy. Depends where Farke sees the new boys and Cantwell playing.

Everyone knows that the issue around us over the last 3 Windows has been wage bill. First of all January helped, with the Pritchard money, but I am also quietly optimistic about the summer. Contract expiry: Wes - hero, but probably (25-30k) and wasn’t playing. Tettey - stays on less or goes (again no offence meant to him, but probably 20-30k) Jones - tiny amount. Jarvis - expires next summer, probably 20k. A chance we could settle / loan out, with only 1 year, someone might off 2 year on less money, Naismith - 35k, ditto above. Martin - 20-25k, ditto above. McGovern - 20k ditto. Klose & pinto - 1 year left, we can keep or replace with similar players for same money. In total that’s about 140k off the wage budget if we can move them on, which I am optimistic about. And other than tettey, Klose and pinto - not an effect on first team. Unwanted players; Wildschut- think we would get 2-3m for Olivera - I like him, but isn’t working out. 2-3m. Franke - maybe 1m Stiepermann - maybe 500k, is 3rd choice left back and about 6th choice midfielders Watkins - looks a 1m exit. Other than tettey, pinto, Klose and Olivera - that’s a lot of wages gone / money in and no impact on the first 18 and we could potentially keep all of them or sign better ones. If Webber and Farke get it right we should have a lean wage budget and a few mill to spend on a couple of players (we have a huge squad with the 5 guys maybe coming back). It could be fun! Time to be slaughtered by the negative people.

Completely agree Stan. For fee / contract size and length, plus being behind; wes, Pritchard, Madison fairly quickly - he is our worst ever signing. RVW was poor but never got the service he had in Portugal. We hit it at his head! So Naismith wins - in 25 years watching I can’t think of one worse.

Excited to see him. A guy who scores and shoots! Make a refreshing change!

Tettey and wes are out of contract and assuming Leitner and reed go back (I think we keep Leitner). Under contract for next season in the middle we have; Kenny McLean - I am keen to see. Good left footer who can score Ben Godfrey - key defensive player for a top team in league one this season. Surely has to come back next season. Louis Thompson - forgotten man, but looked decent before the injury. Not sure how he will recover for next season. Trybull - back fit. Vrancic - hopefully better next year. Could be amazing for us, but probably my biggest disappointment at the beginning of the season. The question is - do we actually need a lot? That’s 5 decent midfielders at this level and with the 4 leaving a much leaner wage budget. I haven’t included Madison in the debate. As if he stays it’s great and if he goes we would easily be able to sign a player in that role. The question is, do those 5 offer enough to get top 6?

Whilst I agree with some of the points, what really annoys me is that he seems to advertise himself as “a good solid hardworking pro”. His behaviour on and off the pitch for us has been very poor. Falls over and appeals a lot, that’s it on the pitch and off the pitch just wants the cash. But let’s be honest the reason we are talking about the wages and no one wants to pay them is that he has been awful for us.

[quote user="DDD In The Fine City"]Matt Jarvis coming back from injury haha[/quote] Fair! I just hope he plays 3 games for us and someone comes in in the summer and takes him.

Assuming Mourinho''s old rule of 2 for every position. We currently play 4231 (ok the last 2 games have also been 343), but I dont think we are short, as we had a HUGE squad before, with so many players not playing. This is all assuming Naismith goes: GK: Gunn, Mcgovern - fine. RB: Pinto + NEED 1. CB: Hanley, Klose, Raggett, Zimmermann - fine. LB: Lewis, Husband, Stiepermann - 1 too many. DM: Reed, Tettey, Vrancic, Trybull & Thompson (may come back from injury towards the end of the season) - fine AM: Wes, Murphy, Marley, Maddison (for now), Marcus Edwards & Matt Jarvis (may come back from injury towards the end of the season). Stiepermann can also play here. So depending on your views on Stiepermann & Jarvis (as a back up). We need 1 or none. Attack: Nelson + NEED 1. Clearly we need a striker (Watkins does not cut it for me so far) and a RB. But otherwise we actually have about the right number of players. Thats AFTER shipping out; Jones, Martin, Franke, Pritchard, Yanic, Naismith and Cameron. Now I agree that 22 above wont get us promoted, but in terms of numbers, its about right and we just need to increase the quality in the summer now and in the summer. My point being that its not all that bad. Getting rid of all these players (albeit some only on loan), should balance the books and give us room in the summer to manoeuvre. Also look at the average ages of the departures, especially as I imagine Tettey and Wes go in the summer. There are some positives. Now we have to trust Webber and Farke to do their work and see if they are as good as Webber says they are.

Would love another centre mid. Tettey is done for me, no longer that good. Vranic (spelling) looks good. Reed could be good. Godfrey is young and Thompson is injured. Despite this it''s about sales / releases now. Sell Naismith, Jarvis, McGovern, wildshut and maybe tettey and suddenly we can spend. We also don''t need to replace any of them other than tettey.

[quote user="Highland Canary"]A disasterous appointment. We should have built the team around Lennon and Hooper.[/quote] The post wasn''t meant so much as a target of Adams. He did well with the youth team and always cared. As one person wrote on here it was quantity over quality. I am much happier that we seem focused on difference makers now.

Last time we got relegated, we signed the following: Lewis Grabban - £3m. Clear success, sold after 18months for 8.5m. Kyle lafferty - 1.5-3m, depending on who you believe. Failure, no chance we get money back. Gary o''neill - free. Success, left on a free, but played well. Carlos queller - free. Mini failure. Didn''t need him. Didn''t play. Cameron jerome - 1.5-2m. Success. Played a lot. Vadis - 3m. Failure, hasn''t played. Sold for big loss. Mcgrandles - 1m. Unknown, but leaning on failure, as for the fee you would expect something special at 18? Ignasi miquel - 850k-1.5m. Failure. He joined behind; turner, Martin, Bennett, bassong etc. Stupid signing. Louis Thompson -350k. Unknown. Joos hoisveld - loan. Failure. Madness of owning so many centre backs, who never played. For me 3 successes, 5 failures (mostly not too expensive) and a couple of unknowns. My more general point is. When we last got relegated we signed a lot of players, but very few actually made the squad better or really nailed down their place. Largely the players that were already there significantly better. Which explains why the club has been more focused "difference makers" and renewing contracts this time around?

I am an old poster, and I agree. Include; Naismith, wes, Jarvis. The forward line is getting old. True Madison, Murphy Murphy and canos are the right direction. Mid; tettey, mulumbu, dorrans, howson - all 29-30 ish. Defense; Martin, Olsson, Whittaker, turner, bassong - not young either. It is an issue.