Old Boy

Fozzy fails in two very important areas - his passes are always the easy option, 10 yard sideways balls, five seconds too late; and when the going gets tough he''s gone, dropping deep and getting even more negative in his play. Added to that he doesn''t score goals. What we need is Clingan and Rusty, with Stefanovic as captain. He''s not the worst ever and doesn''t deserve to be shot at dawn, but he''s a squad player not a first-pick, let alone captain.

"Swinging the lead" mean anything to you? So he''s dropped down 2 divisions and is scoring for fun, but the fact is that we got nothing from him, and it wasn''t the Club''s fault.

His name''s Sadler, not Sandler.

Thanks for the input davetin. Don''t you think that Roeder was at the mercy of the players at NUFC? He relied on players like Kieron Dyer and Titus Bramble, who (apart from being ex-Ipswich) are scumbags of the highest order. It seems to me that Roeder has taken the lesson that the manager''s future is at the mercy of his players and he''s going to be tough this time round. I''m not saying Roeder''s a tactical or man-management genius, but he''s far and away the best manager we''ve had for years.

[quote user="CambridgeCanary"]S- You won''t achieve anyhting under Roeder.  He turns things round well but can''t sustain them.  He was the wrong appointment.  What Norwich needed was a good number 2 looking to step up.   I got straight on to.....(names number 2 at top  Prem Club) and told him to apply.  He didn''t make the shortlist.   That was a mistake. [/quote]It''s very interesting, but you have to think that the mystery number 2 is a client of the Sage (because he got straight on to him) whereas maybe he doesn''t know Roeder at all except by reputation, so he may be a bit biased. The evidence we''ve seen points to him being held in quite high regard by his former players, though no doubt there are disaffected ones out there. All this rumouring that Roeder''s not good enough, without any evidence, is getting me down. He failed at West Ham due to the arsehole players there, and due to his illness, and at NUFC because of the arsehole players (some of which are now at WHU). It''s interesting that both those clubs are now without a manager after serial instability since GR left - that rather points to something seriously wrong deep in those clubs (which have both also changed owners since he left), rather than the manager being to blame. Why can we never defend our own, but always look to undermine them?

[quote user="ron obvious"][quote user="AndyJR"]I think it''s almost been universally agreed that Roeder simply made an error of judgment where Huck''s was concerned. [/quote]Not in my Universe, I''m afraid. And I was one of Hux''s biggest fans.[/quote]Not in any other universe either. Hux made an error of judgement where Roeder was concerned, is nearer the mark. If he''d played up to his billing (and his bill apparently) he''d still be here. But he basically took the piss for the last couple of seasons.

 A bit melodramatic - comparing the plight of Norwich City football club to the collapse of civilisation. Things may be a little dodgy at the moment but they''re not that bad, compared to World War or the Holocaust. Or do you mean Cullum is the Sphinx, with lion''s body and head of a man? Sphinx - kills by strangling. From the same root as "sphincter"....

Quote from Cullum in that article: “I don''t know the state of the finances but they can''t be in great shape. When the published results are made available the trading results will be negative. Whatever business you are, if you have got a negative trading result you go down the toilet.” If he''s after a good business prospect he won''t be investing in a football Club - any football Club. He must realise that, surely. I think he''s playing his business-world games (same as last time), when what we need is immediate action. Last time the existing Board members were playing their own short-sighted game, but hopefully that won''t happen again now reality has hit home. It''s also interesting that Cullum says he "had a good report of the Birmingham game" - why didn''t he go to the game or listen on good old Radio Norfolk like the rest of us? Some fan...

[quote user="DAPPS"]Now I know this is going to seem mad to all of you out there that think the board want to make us go bust. I know this is going to seem wrong to all you Turner haters out there that now as we all realise have a big gap in our budget. But these guys gave the club a lot of money for very little back. They aren''t asking for their money back straight away either! 2.5 million got them 5000 shares. Delia has 367,000 so not as if they were trying to buy the club, just to help out! At the end of the day think we all need to take a step back and say the Turners ARE supporters of the club. Have given what they can and why are people treating them like Judas for pulling out when maybe they need to look after their own business (like we all would) or don''t agree with whats going on at the club. The club should not budget for money it has yet to obtain. Things change, fact of life and if everything went on promises Robinho would be at Chelsea not Man City wouldn''t he?  [/quote] I think you''re right DAPPS. And I also think that Delia and MWJ are motivated by the best interests of the Club. There''s justified criticism, and there''s malignant bile: far too much of the latter on this forum.

[quote user="Eddie Shoestring"][quote user="Leftfootdad"] That Glenn Roeder is hated by the majority of playing staff due to the methods he uses [/quote]  Glenn Roeder is despised by most of the staff full stop - his man management skills are dreadful, him clark & stephenson have a clique which is impenetrable & his methods in ousting some of the old staff have been totally deplorable  [quote user="Leftfootdad"] That GR is actively searching for a route out of NCFC due to the recent false promises of transfer cash from the Board [/quote]  Will all come out in the wash, but those of you who think he is some kind of messiah will be thinking again....  [/quote]He may be hated by the lazy, overpaid tossers who fear for their jobs because they''ve seen what he''s done to other lazy overpaid tossers, and if he is that''s a GOOD thing - it was long overdue. The many flaws in your heap of garbage have been shown up by previous posters, but what interests me is why you would want to post it. The OP made no secret that his post was just rumour (and deserves to be treated like one), whereas you present yours as fact. An axe to grind maybe....  If we lose Roeder at this stage, it''ll be a black day.

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Old Boy"][quote user="nutty nigel"] I think it''s fair to say that had somebody posted in June that we would have signed Sibierski, Stefanovic, Kennedy, Lupoli, Clingan, Hoolahan, Bell, Koroma and Bertrand by the end of the transfer window they would have been laughed off the board. Loans or not.  [/quote] Good point. And to all those "decent team yet to.... etc." posts, I think everybody knows we''re playing much better football than this time last season, and that if we''d played like we did on Saturday against any other team in the division we''d have won easily. IMO the major weaknesses in the team now are ironically two contracted players - Fotheringham and Pattison (despite his 100% effort, he''s Hooze''s younger brother). Hopefully they''ll be replaced soon by Russell and Bell. [/quote] I think at times we concentrate too much on the individual parts of the team and not enough on the team if that  makes sense. I''ll try and explain best I can. Two seasons ago our midfield was:- Croft - Safri - Etuhu - Huckerby. On Saturday it was Pattison - Clingan - Fotheringham - Hoolihan. If you compare the parts of those two midfields most posters would say that Croft is better than Pattison, Safri was better than Clingan, Etuhu was better than Fotheringham and Huckerby was better than Hoolihan and on the evidence of my own eyes I would agree. But I would also argue that the midfield performance as a whole on Saturday was better than anything those better players served up 2 seasons ago. This illustrates how football is a team game and how when the lesser componenents are added together the sum can be greater than the parts would have you believe.  [/quote] You are absolutely right (the England "team" are another great illustration of the point). Safri, Etuhu and Huckerby all turned up when it suited them, which wasn''t very often. If that trio had all played to their talent all the time, we''d have been promoted again. But Roeder''s aware of that and he''s cleaned house. He''s been forced to bring in a lot of loans, but who can say that Kennedy, Bertrand and Lupoli are less committed to the Norwich cause on the pitch than the other three?

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I think it''s fair to say that had somebody posted in June that we would have signed Sibierski, Stefanovic, Kennedy, Lupoli, Clingan, Hoolahan, Bell, Koroma and Bertrand by the end of the transfer window they would have been laughed off the board. Loans or not.  [/quote] Good point. And to all those "decent team yet to.... etc." posts, I think everybody knows we''re playing much better football than this time last season, and that if we''d played like we did on Saturday against any other team in the division we''d have won easily. IMO the major weaknesses in the team now are ironically two contracted players - Fotheringham and Pattison (despite his 100% effort, he''s Hooze''s younger brother). Hopefully they''ll be replaced soon by Russell and Bell.

[quote user="Grumpy Old Blogger"]Loan players are the answer for an egotistical manager with an eye on proving that he CAN manage a club for a second year without leading it to disaster. Unfortunately it makes no allowance for what might happen in years 3 and 4 - but maybe he isn''t looking that far forward. Maybe a strong finish at the end of this year will be good enough to set his reputation back on the right tracks and allow a move for Team Glenn to bigger things. I never will be in favour of turning up on a Saturday to watch someone elses players masquerading as my team - they are not my team and never will be. They are here entirely for their own reasons which vary from "getting a game" to enhance their reputation through "getting fit" to recover from injury to "getting a final pay day" before retirement - but they are NOT my team playing for my club. Why not do away with the cost of having a team at all and instal giant screens around the ground and watch live coverage of Manchester United while pretending they are Norwich City. that way we get a winning team, at no cost. [/quote]Loan players can also get you promoted - but maybe your view is that winning promotion would just be a PR stunt by a manager building (or rebuilding) a reputation. Your analysis is way too one-sided. I''m a bit uneasy about the shortage of contracted players on our books, but I do admire Glenn''s guts in refusing to put up with contracted dross and taking the only other short-term option open to him, with the budget he has. "My team" is sadly a pretty meaningless expression these days - few players now are motivated by love of the Club. When they''re on the pitch, on the other hand, most players still have an instinct to work for their team. You''ll see that at least as much from Ryan Bertrand as from Mark Fotheringham, so who cares if RB is "our player"? Having said that, if this heavy reliance on loans rather than "growing our own" was a long-term strategy, however, I would be very unhappy.

If Shackell''s worth £500k, Doherty''s worth £2m.

[quote user="threcot"]crewe play good attacking football where our they[/quote][quote user="Snakepit boys"]Pathetic Preston on the other hand our 2nd. [/quote]Do you two go to the same school?

There''s no doubt that Roeder is the best manager we''ve had since O''Neill. Who are the other candidates after all? Rioch may have made it given some money to play with. Worthy did great things for a few years, but didn''t see that the fundamental problem with the Club was the slack attitude of its players - that did for him in the end. I''m sure O''Neill would have sorted that out, and Roeder''s determined to do it, having been a victim of it at West Ham and Newcastle. Our players let everybody down towards the end of last season: Roeder warned them to shape up if they wanted a future here. Some of them didn''t, or left it too late to do so, so they''ve gone, as he promised. It''s obvious Roeder thinks of himself as a Premier League manager, and I think he could do it too. His press soundbites criticising players are a bit dodgy sometimes, but he''s had the guts and self-belief to play a very high-risk game in sacking nearly half the squad, and good luck to him because it needed doing. He''s put together a much better squad, in terms of balance and skill, than we''ve had for a while, and without spending a lot. Hopefully the morons who boo the team team when we fail to win (particularly the idiot who sits behind me in the Barclay) will find another interest so the supporters can enjoy the good times which are definitely on the way. That would be a result.I still think he was wrong to sell Lewis and to play Fozzy though....

[quote user="Mister Chops"] He''s had seven months to find someone fitting his criteria, appreciate a few have fallen through - though you have to ask why they''ve fallen through, it can''t all be due to medicals and I''m sure some of it is due to wage demands/transfer fees.  The longer he dithers, the worse it''s going to get for us. [/quote] Which ones have fallen through, and where have they gone? Forget Roeder, who has signed for another CCC Club who you''d have liked here?

If Huckerby had been performing in line with his talent since Roeder came in, does anyone seriously think Roeder would have let him go? The fact is that Huckerby had been poor for two seasons. IMO he got lazy and became a one-dimensional player and started to just do it for the money, despite all the fine words. Look at his record in that period. Or maybe he was injured, in which case why would you re-sign an expensive 32-year old with a chronic injury? Those who chant his name as a taunt to the manager/players/board are not supporters - they can''t be, because they''re undermining the one thing that matters in all this - the team.

Who in the Championship has signed a top striker so far this season? No-one, apart from Birmingham, with Phillips, using the para payments. Have you ever stopped to wonder why, or is the easy route of blaming the manager more your style? And if we narrow the field further, to a top striker who''s 6''1" and above, any ideas who''s available who would fit that bill? Apart from the ones that Roeder''s desperately tried to sign, of course.

[quote user="Disco Dale"][quote user="I. Shurmer"] ....it''s got to be the Doc, Cureton and Rusty up front for me, in a dynamic three-pronged attack. [/quote] Kaka? [/quote] It certainly would be

A midfield of Bell, Russell, Clingan and Hoolahan has tasty look to it. As hard as he tries Croft doesn''t look like he''s ever going to do it, professional football has left Chadwick behind, and if Pattison''s the answer in that position, we''re asking the wrong question.

What a great post ''ackney. I wasn''t there yesterday, but, speaking to my son who took my season ticket, it seems that there are three main problems: the obvious striker deficiency, a lack of team spirit, and identikit central midfield players. I''m not a Fozzy fan, never have been, and I think Russell and Clingan would be a far better pairing. IMO the first move should be to make Stef captain and drop Fotheringham. As for the idiots who boo their team, I''ve got nothing but contempt for them and their pea-brains.

[quote user="LondonITFC"]People like Amrobi and Nugent are exactly the things we despise about football, young 20 somethings, happy to not play any football and pick up 30k a week wages, they clealry have no pride or ambition! Redknapp has told Nugent he doesn''t want him and would love to see him leave, yet he is to thick skinned to consider dropping a division and actually playing football again in order to resurrect his flagging career!! Strikers from the lower leagues, seems to be the way to go for most ccc sides now i think!! [/quote]You''re right, and Roeder had a blast at that attitude last season when it seemed he wanted Nugent on loan. I''m sure your manager feels the same after this episode.

Having a medical prior to agreeing personal terms isn''t the same as signing a contract. Any sensible Club would want a close look at the goods before offering what Ameobi''s being touted for. There''s a lot of water still to flow under that bridge.

[quote user="vicar in green and yellow"]A final point is that despite Roeder doing a good job- he is incredibly stubborn and foolish for starting the season with such a small and weak front line. We HAD to get rid of the ghosts of last season and instead we are toothless. Yes much better than last year with lots of promise. But we have signed small chaps and no strikers. And I am just waiting for the ''we tried and were let down'' line followed by the panic buy of that large donkey at Leicester.............. [/quote]Your first post was so heartfelt that it''s a pity the thread''s been sidetracked. A lot of it makes sense to me, but not the quote above. Don''t you think Rieder hasn''t moved heaven and earth (no slight intended) to get the strikers he wants? I really think he has. But the truth is, if the clubs he''s dealing with don''t want to sell, he can''t force them to. What can he do then? He could compromise and buy some large lump that no-one wants, or stick to his guns - I admire him for sticking to his guns. In Lupoli and Hoolihan (and hopefully Bell) Roeder''s already got us more strike power - I know it''s misfired so far, but I''m confident it will gel - and he himself acknowledges that he''s still missing one or two key pieces of the jigsaw. There''s absolutely no justification for saying that the squad now is the same standard as last year - no way is it as poor in either quality or balance. We have a dangerous number of injuries at the moment unfortunately, but, that aside, we''ve already got a much stronger squad than we had this time last year.Roeder''s taken a very brave, high-risk route, one that we as a Club should have taken many years ago - he''s weeded out the dead wood and poor value players and has begun replacing them with players of good quality who want to play (Hoolihan, Clingan and Bell for example) as well as good loans (Omozusi and Kennedy are a cut above). In my view, the remaining weak links are, sadly, most of the rest of the players who were here before Roeder arrived - Shackell, Fotheringham, Marshall, Croft. I was as angry as anyone after last night''s performance, but this ridiculous pessimism is unbelievable at this stage of the season. If Roeder keeps up his hard line with the players (my only worry is he won''t) I''m sure he''ll start to turn the Queen Mary and get it sailing in the right direction, but he needs more time. I may strongly disagree with some of his selections and acquisitions (e.g. Fozzy and Pattison), but overall he''s the best thing we''ve had for many years. If we turn against him now, we''ll be the losers.