a1canary

Is Morris that kind of player? Tbh I''ve not seen enough of him to form an opinion or to identify his playing style?

Probably not and tbh I didn''t realise he was that ''old'' - but we don''t want to be turning our noses up and proven Champs players like him if they become available.

P.S. Look at Newcastle. They had him and they had Gayle and they had Perez and they had Mitrovic. That is a hell of a set of strikers to have at your disposal in the Championship. They are all different and they all contributed and we''re getting far too full of ourselves if we think we''re too good for Murphy. We''re really not.

I''m not so sure. He IS different to Oliveira and Cam, neither of whom are the battering ram type target man in the way that he can be. Not unlike Holt actually. We need to get over the idea that we''re too good for agricultural football. We can aim and prioritise good football, and we can play it and do well playing it, but as this last season has shown, it doesn''t always work and to have the option to play with a Murphy and play ugly at Milwall on a Tuesday night is an option we shouldn''t sniff at.

As other''s have said... £4m!?!?! I know they''ve not been actually doing much in the market lately but can someone just tell them what has happened to the transfer market in the last 3 years? £7m for Wildschut, £12m for McCormack, £8m for Pritchard, £12m for Hogan... etc etc If we''re going to sell Howson to finance rebuilding, we just need to put a compilation of this season together and slap £10m minimum on his head.

I''m inclined to thinking along the same lines as Broadstairs BUT, i would find it very hard to say no to a potential new holy trinity of Webber, Irvine and Lambert. I couldn''t see Irvine staying last week but Lambert it one guy he might be prepared to work for in the same or similar role he had with Neil. I think Irvine and Lambert would go together well, they''d be quite the yin and yang!

"inflated expectations and entitlement" - this is the problem. It would happen anywhere. This is the first year in the last 6 where we haven''t either been mixing with the big boys in the Prem or wiping the floor with the opposition in the Championship. So back in the Champs this year fans are waiting for the players to give us something and when they haven''t been able to (as is inevitable at some point) the fans get restless, the players get nervous and the spiral of decline begins, the recriminations start, fans turn on each other, players, off field staff etc... it''s hard to stop.

Snakepit not only failing to lead and generate decent atmos as it has traditionally done, but also managing to boo Russ on his 300th game. Webber will have noted that if he noted Jacob getting stick in the derby. So he knows what he''s doing imo - while it may be a risk to have a go it needs to be said as everything needs to be reset. It happens everywhere, fans get complacent, start expecting things and their attitude changes, their support become more conditional. If fans have had to get used to cr@p and mediocrity, they''re much quicker to back and support the team from a position of expecting little or nothing. Lambert did it when in L1, and Webber/Wagner have done it at HTFC after they had been in L1. Hell I imagine even them lot down the road, if they ever got a team, a manager and a regime to back and to shout about, they might get behind their team and generate an atmosphere around that place. Instead it''s getting like CR in the Roeder era at the Portaloo these days.

Still makes me giggle seeing that guy come flying out of the crowd and going a*se over t*t on the advertising hording!

I don''t think he''s a bad option. It would almost be worth it just for the absolute hernia it would give all the Leeds fans!! They hate us for taking all their best players (even when they didn''t work out like Becchio!) so taking the only recent manager who has been good for them would be the crowning insult. As for Leeds being able to offer more I totally disagree with that. Right now, for a manager, you offer them Leeds or Norwich that is by no means a given one way or other. Leeds have ultimately more potential but that''s only if they actually get up. We are financially stronger with them having been broke and in the lower divisions for years, we have a much better off field set up, they have a trigger happy unpredictable owner whose commitment to the club is questionable at best, and man for man we have a better squad right now. Actually, forget that it''s not a given, right now, today, we are clearly a better prospect for a good young manager that Leeds. You wouldn''t just choose Leeds because of what they COULD be when they are a long way from that and not as well equipped to make them that force that they once were. I think it''s very credible that Webber would have Monk high on his list.

Parama''s Swansea example is exactly an example of what I described in my post on page 3 regarding the importance of protecting a club''s culture, which is very often lost when new owners come in who aren''t familiar with it and don''t respect it. There''s an article in the Guardian form a few weeks back describing the exact same thing as happening at Swansea happening at Palace after their American takeover. Thing is, the club COULD still be successful and may then forge its own, new identity, but which will have very little to do with the club''s history and culture. Man City would be a good example of that. I have a friend who was a huge City fan from the Maine Road days, Sumerbee and Peter Reid etc... that has basically been erased now and what you have now is a completely new global identity. Said friend has completely lost interest and no longer even follows football. Some fans might be happy with that if it brings with it success but their history has essentially been forgotten and swept aside. That''s the good outcome. For the bad outcome, where a new owner comes in and doesn''t manage to be successful, just look at who got relegated from league two today to see where it ends. That situation is an utter catastrophe and I feel desperately for the fans of that club, I really do. I don''t care who you are, no fans deserve that to happen to their club. Not even the scummers.

A few points for the hard of comprehending. Baldyboy - Since you like asking for quotes, how about you quote anywhere on this post where anyone has said the owners are wonderful or great or whatever. I specifically said they have made mistakes, ergo they are far from perfect. But please point to a club that hasn''t made any mistakes. The reality is, all clubs will make mistakes and take the club in the wrong direction at times. When that happens, ask yourself who you want in charge of the club... a Venkys, an Allam, a Yeung, a Gaydamak, a SISU? Iwan''s Big Toe This Norwich and Norfolk folk dun loike furriners rubbish is a lazy cliche, a totally misguided interpretation of the concern about club ownership, and simply wrong. Sure there are folk everywhere who have that attitude but it is nothing to do with football. Football clubs are based in a specific locality and by definition draw on their local communities for their existence, support, culture and history. So to criticise fans who''d like that link respected and protected by the club''s owners is every shade of wrong. Fans aren''t automatically against outside ownership but naturally are anxious for the club''s culture, identity and interests to remain protected when the club is taken over by someone who has no knowledge understanding or reference to that culture and identity. Despite your random list of clubs posted above, you conveniently ignore the total disasters that have been Coventry City, Leeds Utd, Blackburn Rovers, Portsmouth... clubs who have been to hell and back (or are still in hell in some cases) because of owners cutting and running when things turned sour. Foreign ownership can work out, but it can go horrendously wrong. We''ve made errors but recovered reasonably and not crashed to the depths like the above. We are actually about where we can expect to be in the pyramid of the top two divisions. We aren''t a Man U or a City or a Chelsea so we need consistently good decisions, management and to keep punching above our weight to break in to the top division and stay there. We''ve done that and we haven''t done that. People need to recognise this rather than assume we have a divine right to a moneybags sugar daddy who would have given us better years than we''ve had in the last decade or so.

[quote user="Darth Canary1"]This won''t be a popular thread![/quote] LOL - tell me about it. But really, when you think about it, why? I''d love some board haters to make a convincing argument that the board should have sold out to a.n. hinvestor (who!?). Take Fernandes as an example since he was around at one point, and think where we would be now if we had done. Who has made more/worse mistakes since Fernandes took over at QPR? Their lot or our lot? Close run thing. We bother find ourselves in the same position today but we have had longer in the PL and the benefits of that. And would you rather be where they are today, with who they have, or where we are today, with who we have?

[quote user="KeiranShikari"]A man complementing his new employers? That''s shocking.He''d be banging on about ambition and the global game if our owners were Arabs.[/quote] You are missing the point. Which is if we had sold out to Indian Chicken farmers, he wouldn''t be here at all.

*rather than in the home country OF of foreign investor... ...that should say!

This seems to have been missed in all the noise around his appointment - perhaps an inconvenient truth for some - but he said in his interview that the board was a key factor in him being here because it''s locally based (rather than in the home country or a foreign investor) and because it has vision clarity and the desire to do what''s right for the club. No competing priorities such as other clubs (see Liverpool, ManUtd), or other business interests (chicken, airlines etc!). This is why D&M rightly don''t want to sell out to foreign investors because they want an owner who ONLY has the club''s interests at heart. Our Board has made mistakes but the clubs best interests always come first. Mistakes are inevitable, every club and every board will make them, having our club in the hands of someone who doesn''t put it first is not inevitable.

[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]The psychological scars are there to see for most of the defence after two bad seasons. For that reason I feel we need two new first choice cbs. Klose is too expensive to be a reserve and has transfer value so I would let him go. I would keep martin he is a good utility defender in a back up role but he may not want that if he wants regular football[/quote] Yes, good point as regards to what would be acceptable to him, particularly if he was told he wasn''t first choice. That would be hard for him because he will see himself as still having plenty of years left in him playing. But if he was given a role as what you might call a ''number 3'' - the experienced pro in the dressing room, the guy to get the messages across, to help manage the players, to pass on his experience.... not unlike Dion Dublin in his brief spell, also Gary O''Neil who I sense was very valuable to Alex Neil two years ago, even though he was by no means always on the pitch. I think Russ is smart enough to know these could be his first steps from on to off pitch.

To be fair to Neil though, the key question is about how that very team on Saturday would play if they went away from home and faced a team like us at home, pouring forward, totally on top of us from the outset... he (nor any of them tbf!) have not been able to deal with that this season. I have high hopes for Louis Thompson and maybe Mulumbu being a good foil for Pritchard potentially and giving him the license to do what he does best.

What do we think about his role next season? He''s one who we know for certain will WANT to stay. But should he stay? In what capacity? I think he''s got a lot to offer - I''m just not sure how much of that is on the pitch! He has been really inconsistent this year, defensively he''s just not reliable enough anymore. Maybe he could do well in a defence if he was alongside someone really solid but I don''t think he makes a solid CB pairing with any of our current CBs. Nor do the others mind! BUT... he''d be good to have as defensive back up, CB or RB, playing when needed, he''d be good in the dressing room and I''m sure in a backroom role. His knowledge of the club, the players more importantly, his general awareness, intelligence and honesty mean he would be valuable to SW and the head coach as their man in the dressing room. For me, we should keep hold of him.

I think we could do worse than Grayson. He has done a great job at Preston who were cannon fodder in this league before he took over. Good experience of this league.

Oh my, the Karanka thing was just an aside observation. I did not mean or say that they have been failures, only that they had had A MEASURE of failure that is often enough to get a manager the sack. And fwiw, Karanka is about to have another much bigger failure. I feel pretty sure he will leave or be shown the door when ''boro go down. What then? I bet ''boro fans are already complaining in much the same vein now that we did about Hughton. He has tried to stay up by being hard to beat and it isn''t working. So with a new manager, are their chances of coming back up better? No idea, it''s a complete unknown. But will Karanka''s ''transformation'' have added up to much if they can''t get straight back up? Fans don''t care for Neil''s promotion now. We do at least have a clutch of good young players who have a genuine chance of being part of a squad that could do something in this league. Many of those players brought in by or developed by Neil. Success at this level, more than in the PL, is so much about finding the right formula, the right chemistry and motivations in a squad. We had it in Neil''s first season but in the PL it''s not normally enough on its own, we lost it and now we''re just scrabbling around. But IF, and it''s a big if, there is a complete overhaul based on those youth players.... and there is recognition of the car crash that has been our central defence this season and our failure to sort it out in either transfer window... then I think Neil has just as much chance of re-finding that formula as anyone else out there who we might be able to recruit.

[quote user="STAN"]I fail to see how you can compare Hughton/Karanka to our current predicament under Alex Neil. We''ve just been relegated from the Premier League, we''ve entrusted him with a relatively large budget for our current level, and we''ve kept hold of our "best" players in the summer. In the summer most fans seemed united in the fact that Alex Neil was a proven Championship manager, and believed that he was the man to gain promotion back to the promised land. We haven''t gained promotion, and this season has been nothing short of a failure. Some fans seem to have to short memories, if we''re not careful we''ll back to the days of Delia having to break her jam jar to sign players like Carl Robinson for 40k. As a modern day football club Norwich City is probably in the best shape it has ever been, within a year it could all easily become a fond memory. I also fail to see what Neil has shown to warrant another a shot at it? Do you honestly believe he will get us promoted next season? If he doesn''t get us promoted will you view it as a failure? Or will we just give him another year to learn his trade at our expense?[/quote] Not saying it''s the SAME. Just illustrating how clubs have stuck with managers like those when others (Derby) might have ditched them. In this case, granted, because of ok relatively minor failures. But the point is still valid.

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]I think that depends, a1, on the type of person who takes over. Assuming it is a manager with experience then yes I would feel more confident, particularly if he takes over now because I do feel that 10 games or so to see the squad in action plus a transfer window would give us the best chance to relaunch an assault on the PL in August. So a Mark Warburton or a Gary Rowett type person (just to pluck the names often touted round here) would please me since they have done well at other clubs and have a bank of experience to fall back on. The current presenter of Canary Call would not (whoever that may be). But it''s not as if that would ever happen is it............?!!![/quote] Not quite what I meant - you''ve jumped straight to the appointment! I meant how confident/comfortable would you feel about the future when you wake up in the morning and hear Neil has been sacked, but BEFORE any new appointment! i.e. at the precise moment the majority of fans get what they want. I''m not sure we can have too much confidence in what would come next. On recent occasions when our managers have been changed, the feeling of underwhelmness (word?) at the new appointment has been noteable. From Gunn to Lambert was distinctly mixed, as was Lambert to Hughton. From Hughton to Adams was underwhelming and no-one was all that thrilled when Neil replaced Adams. I don''t recall the last managerial appointment that really got the fans excited. Walker return? Bruce Rioch? Not that either of those worked out either lol! God I''m depressing myself now!

[quote user="Tumbleweed"]I do see it as part of the manager''s job, and probably one of the most important aspects, to ensure that the players are motivated and fully invested in the club''s success. For so many to seem disinterested is quite alarming- one or two I could understand and may even be regarded as normal; but more than that suggests something cultural and widespread. And if that list includes big money signings by the manager himself rather than his predecessors it becomes even more alarming. I have almost lost interest in the line up pre game since I don''t perceive any correlation between who''s in or out and the result come 5pm. I just can''t say any more whether Team X will be any better than Team Y: will it be a Forest (H) or a Weds (A) performance? Seems pretty random to me but sadly more of the latter than the former. I do really seek to see each side of the argument, but the scales are weighing very heavy with me to the side which says "get rid" at the moment. There are not many counterweights other than the avoidance of compensation, (and pure hope!). I just can''t believe that so soon after that awful period when Hughton seemed to be clinging on game by game that we are back here again, a division lower. It''s a real waste of what seemed to be a golden opportunity that balmy day in May ''15.[/quote] Great post TW. Again, can''t argue. I''d just refer you to my closing comment in my reply to keelansGD, if he goes tomorrow, with the club at this moment in time, how happy/confident would you be about the future then? Would you feel any better than you do now!?

Correction sorry - I said they ''had'' failures not that they were failures period. The point being that in the eyes of many club owners a failure at the play off stage, particularly Hughton who many at Brighton might have said he should have taken up automatically but they fell away badly, is reason enough for a sacking. And that by sticking with them they have looked stronger subsequently. So if in exactly a year''s time we are looking handily placed in the top 3, could say the same about Neil and a decision to stick with him today . But look hey, if he left tomorrow I wouldn''t be crying and nor could he be. My biggest worry is our ability as a club and a board to recruit well if he left.